The A-league Expansion Thread


The A-league Expansion Thread

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Iridium1010
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This thread is for general discussion on the expansion or potential expansion of teams in the A-league. It is also used to discuss the viability of existing clubs and the history of previous clubs as well as NPL teams. The FFA has expansion on hold until after the existing broadcasting deal ends, unless a miracalous bid comes along.

[size=8]The Front Runners[/size]

[size=6]Canberra[/size]

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Canberra is a front runner for future A-league expansion. The official bid A-League4Canberra was closed on 10 May 2012 due to losing out to Western Sydney Wanderers and FFA suspending expansion until 2015. Canberra drew 5,193 people to an A-league game between Central Coast Mariners and Perth Glory on the 4th of September 2009, and 5,735 to watch Sydney FC vs Central Coast during the 2007 pre season cup. Canberra has a W-League team which has the highest average attendance of the league at about 1000. According to Ivan Slavich, Canberra is the preferred option for the A-leagues 11th team.

Canberra has had 2 NSL teams in the past, Canberra City and Canberra Cosmos, the Cosmos failed to attract crowds above 3000.

[size=6]Wollongong[/size]

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The Wollongong A-league bid, South Coast FC, lost out too NQF and GCU. Football South Coast chief executive Ann-Marie Balliana has spoken about the cities goals to have an A-league team. Football South Coast boss Eddy De Gabriele said the South Coast is hoping to have a W-league and NYL team by the 2014-15 NSWPL season, and an A-league team in 3 years with several backers already being approached. South Coast Wolves were expected to have a 22-hectare training and administration site built for the club by 2015 as well as a cheaper stadium rent deal to play at WIN Stadium, however the initial funding was scrapped.

Wollongong drew a crowd of 6,124 at a match between Sydney FC and Wellington Phoenix for the 2008 Pre-season cup, and 6,540 at a pre-season friendly in 2013 between Sydney FC and Newcastle Jets. Newcastle Jets player Ruben Zadkovich and Newcastle Coach Gary van Egmond both publicly supported an A-league bid. Wollongong supported a NSL club for over 20 years in the NSL, its crowd were generally between 3-5k.

[size=6]South Melbourne/Third Melbourne[/size]

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Southern Cross FC is a bid backed by South Melbourne FC to re-enter the A-league. The bid lost out to Melbourne Heart FC during the Melbourne expansion. In 2013 South Melbourne FC attempted to buy Central Coast Mariners and Melbourne Heart, both of which were rejected. The bid included $3.5 million and brazilian star Emerson as coach, Melbourne Heart have rejected the bid twice. South Melbourne FC drew crowds between 3-8k in the NSL and was a founding club of the league.

[size=6]Campbelltown[/size]
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The Campbelltown council have pushed for an A-league town to be based out of Campbelltown stadium, the proposal is supported by former Socceroo Brett Emerton.

[size=6]Liverpool[/size]
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Liverpool mayor Ned Mannoun supports an A-league team to be based out of Liverpool playing in a proposed stadium at Woodward Park.

[size=6]Southern Sydney[/size]
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Southern Sydney is rumoured to be a preferred location for a future A-league team, recently Tim Cahill has thrown his support behind a Southern Sydney team and the Cronulla Sharks have shown interest in supporting or setting up a bid.
[size=6]Hobart/Launceston[/size]

http://www.tasmaniaunited.com.au/
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Tasmania has had a A-league bid since 2008. Tasmania has 2 main population centers, Hobart and Launceston, it is unclear what city the team would play in if successful. Football Federation Tasmania is not currently pursuing an A-league license, stating that it is unsustainable, they're currently hoping to have a small rectangular stadium be built in Hobart. In 2013 when speaking about expansion, A-league chief Damien de Bohun said Hobart was another option for expansion, however in 2014 David Gallop commented that Tasmania was not in the FFA's short term plan however did not rule it out for the future.

Melbourne Victory signed a 3 year agreement with the Tasmanian football association to play pre-season games in Tasmania and also naming of the Tasmanian state league. A crowd of 4071 showed up to watch Melbourne Victory play against the Tasmania XI in Hobart. Launceston drew a crowd of 8061 to watch Melbourne Victory and Adelaide united during the 2007 pre season cup , 4,720 the following year and 3,147 during the 2012-13 pre season.

[size=6]Geelong[/size]

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Geelong is the second largest city in Victoria, federal MP for Corangamite, Darren Cheeseman, launched a $20,000 feasibility study into Geelong football, and Geelong Football Club supported sharing Kardinia Park together, Josip Skoko also supported a team for Geelong.

Recently there was interest from a Melbourne based consortium to relocate Central Coast Mariners to Geelong which had support from the local council. A crowd of 8500 turned up to watch Melbourne Victory play against Newcastle jets at the 2007 pre season cup.

A Geelong consortium called "Greater Geelong Galaxy" is currently attempting to gain entry in to the NPLV, this could be the first step to an A-league club. After the first year the club will allow its members to choose its colours and name.

[size=6]Asia[/size]

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In 2013, A-league chief Damien de Bohun spoke about playing A-league games in Asia during the 2014/15 season while the Asian Cup was on. He also spoke about having future teams based in Asia and has said that they have had active discussions with places like Singapore, Indonesia and are currently speaking to Malaysian officials on playing a team out of a new 50,000 stadium. Malaysian officials welcomed the idea while Singaporean officials said it wanted to hear more details while Indonesian Football Federation secretary-general Joko Driyono said he was not aware of of any contact over the proposal.

[size=8]Re-expansion[/size]

[size=6]Townsville[/size]

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Townsville won the right to play in the 2009-10 A-league season as North Queensland Fury. Following their first season the club was hit with severe financial difficulties with there main backer pulling out. The club folded after just there 2nd season with crowd averages of 6,723 and 4,245. After much talk about the Fury coming back, the club was finally re-formed in 2012 and successfully bidded to join the 2013 NPL. The Fury have a five-year plan a National Youth League license in 2015, a W-League license in 2016 and an A-league team in 2017. In November, 2013 Fury will attempt to attract 5,000 members as part of a community ownership program to help their cause to re-join the A-league.

[size=6]Gold Coast[/size]

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Gold Coast is currently the largest city in Australia without a team. Gold Coast united participated in the A-league for 3 years before the FFA took its license off the clubs owner, its season attendance averages were 5,392, 3,434 and 3,546. A Gold Coast consortium had hoped to save the club but the FFA opted for a team in Western Sydney. In 2012 Gold Coast Football planned joining the APL and eventually returning to the A-league by 2017, there bid was rejected. Geoffrey Schuhkraft is working on bringing an A-league team back to the Gold Coast

[size=6]Auckland[/size]

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Auckland has had 2 football teams. Football Kingz FC lasted 5 years in the NSL bringing in average crowds between 1.5-5.5k. The second team New Zealand Knights lasted just 2 seasons in the A-league drawing yearly average crowds of 3,909 and 3,014. Since then however there has been a raised possibility about a new Auckland team with the success of Wellington Phoenix. Wellington Phoenix drew a crowd of 20,078 during the 2011-12 A-league season at Eden park(Auckland).

Auckland City FC have recently begun talking to potential investors including Wellington Phoenix owner Gareth Morgan, with the aim of entering the A-league, and New Zealand Football has announced a strategic plan which includes supporting a 2nd NZ team from Auckland.

[size=8]The Others[/size]

[size=6]Cairns[/size]
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Far North Queensland Heat announced plans to join the A-league after signing a sponsorship deal with Aquis. They're planning on building a 25,000 seater stadium and to have an A-league and NYL license when the FFA next consider expansion. Far North Queensland Heat have planned talks with the FFA and and Football Queensland.

A Brisbane Roar vs Sydney GC game attracted 4,500 supporters to a pre-season cup game, while a pre-season friendly between Brisbane Roar and Sydney FC attracted 4707.

[size=6]Sunshine Coast[/size]

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Sunshine Coast Fire have publicly said they want to join the A-league when FFA re-open for A-league bids. Sunshine Coast has drawn crowds between 3-4k for pre season games.

[size=6]Ipswich[/size]

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Ipswich have plans to for an A-league team with Mayor Paul Pisasale promising to build a 15,000 seat stadium to secure a license. Brisbane Roar CEO Sean Dobson and Ipswich's deputy Mayor Victor Attwood have supported an Ipswich A-elague team. Ipswich has attracted crowds of 2-4k for pre-season Brisbane Roar games.

[size=6]Christchurch[/size]

Christchurch has been suggested as the next place for New Zealand expansion. Christchurch attracted 14,108 supporters to a Wellington Phoenix A-league game during the 2010-11 season and 19,279 during the 2009-10 season.

[size=6]City of Casey[/size]

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The City of Casey talked about the possibility of an A-league team in 2008.

[size=6]Pacific Islands[/size]

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In 2008 Frank Lowy openly met with the Oceania Football Federation (OFC) to have a Pacific Islands based team in the A-league and invited the OFC to look into creating a team for the Pacific Islands. OFC ambassador Christian Karembeu headed a football consortium to be based in New Caledonia called Ocean 11 FC.

[size=8]Smaller Others[/size]

[size=6]Darwin[/size]

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The Northern Territory Government supported the Northern Thunder bid whose plan was to play some games out of Darwin. Northern Territory Football Association’s skill acquisitions trainer John Tambouras has spoken of having a NYL or A-League team based in Darwin. Darwin drew a crowd of 2,700 to a pre-season cup game between Perth Glory and Melbourne Victory.

[size=6]Dunedin[/size]

Dunedin drew a crowd of 15,037 to a pre-season game between Wellington Phoenix and Brisbane Roar

[size=6]Toowoomba[/size]

Toowoomba has pulled crowds between 2-3k for pre-season games.

[size=6]Hamilton[/size]

Hamilton got 9000 to pre-season game between Wellington and Brisbane.

[size=6]Gippsland[/size]

Gippsland had an NSL team known as Morwell Falcons which drew crowds of around 2-3k. A season match between Melbourne Heart and Wellington was viewed by 2,951 fans.

[size=6]Second Brisbane[/size]

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Football Queensland technical director Gary Phillips has spoken in favour of a second Brisbane team in the future.

[size=6]Second Adelaide[/size]

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Various Adelaide Coaches have spoken in support of a future Adelaide team. A consortium of Adelaide business men are currently are currently discussing the option of a 2nd Adelaide team after 2017.

[size=6]Ballarat[/size]

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The Ballarat Red Devils are currently bidding to join the NPLV, Andrew Burgess chairman of the Red Devils has stated that the overall vision of the club is to one day play in the A-league.

Other significant population centres include Mackay, Mandurah, Bendigo, Rockhampton, Albury-Wodonga, Burnie – Devonport, Bunbury, Bundaberg, Tauranga, Palmerston North and Napier.

[size=8]Former A-league Bids/Concepts/Expressions of Interest[/size]

Northern/Townsville Thunder
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Gold Coast Galaxy
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Gold Coast United
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Southern Cross FC
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Joe Meissner Penrith bid
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New Zealand Knights

North Queensland Fury
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South Coast FC
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Sydney Rovers

Canberra4theAleague
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South Melbourne

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Tasmania United
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Colin DeLutis Melbourne bid
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[size=8]A-league Club Games Held in Potential Expansion Areas[/size]

[size=6]Albury[/size]

9/2/2014 - A-league Round 18, Melbourne Heart vs Perth Glory - 7,218, Lavington Sports Ground

[size=6]Auckland[/size]

2/2/2013 - A-league Round 19, Wellington Phoenix vs Perth Glory - 11,566, Eden Park
28/9/2013 - pre-season friendly, Auckland City vs Wellington Phoenix - 2,500, Kiwitea Street
1/2/2014 - A-league Round 17, Wellington Phoenix vs Adelaide United - 18,506, Eden Park
23/7/2014 - International Friendly, Wellington Phoenix vs West Ham United - 19,183, Eden Park
13/12/2014 - A-league Round 10, Wellington Phoenix vs Central Coast Mariners - 11,051 Eden Park

[size=6]Cairns[/size]

22/9/2013 - pre-season friendly - Brisbane Roar FC vs Sydney FC - 4,707, Barlow Park

[size=6]Canberra[/size]

14/8/2013 - pre-season friendly - Canberra Olympic vs Western Sydney Wanderers - 1800, AIS Athletics Field
21/8/2013 - pre-season friendly - Canberra NPL All-Stars vs Newcastle Jets - 761, McKellar Park

[size=6]Christchurch[/size]

12/9/2012 - pre-season friendly, Wellington Phoenix vs Western Sydney Wanderers - 7,009, AMI Stadium
9/9/2013 - A-league Round Five, Wellington Phoenix vs Perth Glory - 9,671, AMI Stadium

[size=6]Dunedin[/size]

3/3/2013 - A-league Round 23, Wellington Phoenix vs Melbourne Heart - 3,060, Forsyth Barr Stadium
22/7/2014 - International Friendly Newcastle United vs Sydney FC - 9,506, Forsyth Barr Stadium

[size=6]Hobart[/size]

21/8/2012 - pre-season friendly, Tasmania XI vs Melbourne Victory - 4,071, KGV Park
29/9/2013 - pre-season friendly, Melbourne Victory vs Western Sydney Wanderers - 5,290, Twin Ovals

[size=6]Geelong[/size]

15/2/2014 - Asian Champions League Qualifying Play-off, Melbourne Victory vs Muangthong United - 8,304, Kardinia Park
2/1/2015 - A-league Round 13, Melbourne Victory vs Perth Glory - 21,289, Kardinia Park

[size=6]Ipswich[/size]

12/8/2012 - pre-season friendly, Ipswich Select XI vs Brisbane Roar - 2.431, North Ipswich Reserve
14/9/2013 - pre-season friendly, Brisbane Roar vs Melbourne Victory - 2,550, North Ipswich Reserve

[size=6]Launceston[/size]

24/8/2012 - pre-season friendly, Melbourne Victory vs Adelaide United - 3,147, Aurora Stadium
[size=6]Rotorua[/size]

22/9/2013 - pre-season friendly, Wellington Phoenix FC vs All Whites A - 3,553, Rotorua International Stadium

[size=6]Mackay[/size]

16/9/2012 - pre-season friendly, Brisbane Roar vs Sydney FC - 2,500, Virgin Australia Stadium

[size=6]Northern Sydney[/size]

19/12/2013 - A-league Round 6, Central Coast Mariners vs Wellington Phoenix - 6,755 North Sydney Oval
5/12/2014 - A-league round 9, Central Coast Mariners vs Melbourne Victory - 7,098 North Sydney Oval

[size=6]Napier[/size]

27/9/2013 - A-league Round Three, Wellington Phoenix vs Newcastle Jets - 9020, McLean Park

[size=6]Sunshine Coast[/size]

23/9/2012 - pre-season friendly, Brisbane Roar vs Central Coast Mariners - 3,500, Stockland Park

[size=6]Toowoomba [/size]

18/9/2013 - pre-season friendly, Western Pride vs Brisbane Roar - 1000, Toowoomba Grammar School

[size=6]Wollongong[/size]

14/9/2013 - Pre-season friendly, Sydney FC v Newcastle Jets - 6,540, WIN Stadium.
5/8/2014 - friendly, A-League All Stars vs Young Socceroos - 6,963, WIN Stadium
3/1/2015 - A-league Round 14, Sydney FC vs Newcastle Jets - 11,733, WIN Stadium.

[size=8]Former Top Flight Clubs Average Attendances in Expansion Areas[/size]

[size=6]Auckland[/size]

Auckland Football Kingz/ Football Kingz

1999/00 - 4,547
2000/01 - 6,620
2001/02 - 3,874
2002/03 - 2,613 - As Football Kingz
2003/04 - 1,273

NZ Knights

2005/06 - 3,909
2006/07 - 3,011

[size=6]Canberra[/size]

Canberra Cosmos

1995/96 - 2,910
1996/97 - 2,939
1997/98 - 2,719
1998/99 - 2,336
1999/00 - 2,428
2000/01 - 2,184

[size=6]Gippsland[/size]

Morwell Falcons/Gippsland Falcons/Eastern Pride

1993/94 - 2,263
1994/95 - 1,231
1995/96 - 2,534
1996/97 - 3,001 - As Gippsland Falcons
1997/98 - 3,062
1998/99 - 2,173
1999/00 - 2,148
2000/01 - 1,657 - As Eastern Pride

[size=6]Gold Coast[/size]

Gold Coast United

2009/10 - 5297
2010/11 - 3419
2011/12 - 3438

[size=6]Northern Sydney[/size]

Northern Spirit

1998/99 - 14,633
1999/00 - 8,305
2000/01 - 4,526
2001/02 - 4,750
2002/03 - 2,377
2003/04 - 2,000

[size=6]Townsville[/size]

North Queensland Fury

2009/10 - 6723
2010/11 - 4245

[size=6]Wollongong[/size]

Wollongong City/Wollongong Wolves

1995/96 - 2,873
1996/97 - 4,701 - As Wollongong Wolves
1997/98 - 5,567
1998/99 - 3,560
1999/00 - 4,939
2000/01 - 5,104
2001/02 - 3,403
2002/03 - 3,025
2003/04 - 2,569


[size=8]Population Projections[/size]

[size=6]Wollongong[/size] (Wollongong/Shellharbour/Kiama)

In 1998, With a population of 264,128, the Wollongong Wolves averaged 5,567 in their NSL when they came 6th place.
Currently, the population is around 292,136
In 2017, The next likely time for expansion, the population is estimated to be about 303,630
In 2022, 318,574
in 2030, 343,891

[size=6]Canberra[/size] (Canberra/Queanbeyan)

In 1996, with a population of around 297,300, the Canberra Cosmos averaged 3,176 when they came last in the NSL.
Currently, The population is around 422,249
In 2017, 455,113
In 2022, 499,813
In 2030, 580,644

[size=6]Geelong[/size]

Currently, the population is around 227,699
In 2017, 241,957
In 2022, 261,042
In 2030, 294,758

[size=6]Auckland[/size]

In 2001, with a population of 1,022,616, the Football Kingz averaged 6,620 when they came 8th in the NSL.
Currently the population is around 1,530,315
In 2017, 1,624,221
In 2022, 1,749,747
In 2030, 1,971,077

[size=6]Tasmania[/size]

Currently the population is around 513,024
In 2017, 517,141
In 2022, 522,333
In 2030, 530,748

[size=6]Townsville[/size]

In 2010, with a population of 181,743, North Queensland Fury averaged 6,723 when they came 7th in the A-League.
Currently the population is around 186,310
In 2017, 203,254
In 2022, 226,617
In 2030, 269,712

[size=6]Townsville, Sunshine Coast, Gold Coast, Ipswich/Logan, Illawara, Central Coast, Australian Capital Territory, Tasmania and Barwon[/size]



[size=6]Perth and sub-regions[/size]
[size=4]As of 2010[/size]

Perth has a population of 1,696,000 in 2031 it will be 2,200,000

Central Perth has a population of 705,000, in 2031 it will be 910,000.

North-west Perth has a population of 285,000, in 2031 it will be 395,000.

North-east Perth has a population of 189,000, in 2031 it will be 258,000.

South-east Perth has a population of 170,000, in 2031 it will be 228,000.

South-west Perth has a population of 208,000, in 2031 it will be 277,000.

[size=6]Peel[/size]
[size=4]As of 2010[/size]

Peel has a population of 88,000, in 2031 it will be 133,000.

[size=6]Sydney sub-regions[/size]



[size=8]State Population Summaries[/size]

[size=6]Australian Capital Territory[/size]


[size=6]Northern Territory[/size]


[size=6]Queensland[/size]


[size=6]South Australia[/size]


New South Wales


[size=6]Victoria[/size]


[size=6]Western Australia[/size]


[size=8]Gross Regional Product per Population[/size]

By Gyfox


[size=8]Registered Players Per Region[/size]
[size=3]As of 2013[/size]

[size=6]Australian Capital territory[/size]

14,500 players in the Australian Capital Territory.

[size=6]G21 Region(Geelong & Surrounding Areas)[/size]

2,851 registered plays in the G21 region.

[size=6]Gold Coast[/size]

Gold Coast had 8,500 registered plays as of 2007.

[size=6]New South Wales[/size]

198,000 registered players.

Northern New South Wales

51,000 registered players.

[size=6]Queensland[/size]

75,000 registered players.

[size=6]North Queensland[/size]

Around 4k registered players as of 2014.

[size=6]South Australia[/size]

23,000 registered players.

[size=6]Sunshine Coast[/size]

More than 5,500 players in Sunshine Coast.

[size=6]Sutherland Shire[/size]

20,000.

[size=6]Tasmania[/size]

15,000 registered players.

[size=6]Victoria[/size]

59,000 registered players.

[size=6]Western Australia[/size]

35,000 registered players and 1 club giving a player pool of 35,000 per club.

[size=6]South Coast and Surrounding Regions[/size]

10,500 registered players in South Coast, and 17,000 in the surrounding areas.

[size=8]5 Major City sub-regions[/size]

[size=6]Adelaide[/size]

Looking for map.

[size=6]Brisbane[/size]



[size=6]Perth[/size]



[size=6]Melbourne[/size]


[size=6]Sydney[/size]


[size=8]Rail line Maps[/size]

[size=6]Adelaide[/size]



[size=6]Brisbane[/size]



[size=6]Perth[/size]



[size=6]Melbourne[/size]



[size=6]Sydney[/size]



[size=8]Fan submissions for potential future clubs[/size]

[size=7]Maps[/size]

[size=6]Melbourne[/size]

By Williamn


1. melbourne victory
2. melbourne heart
3. south melbourne
4. geelong city
5. dandenong thunder

[size=6]Perth[/size]

By paladisious


[size=6]Sydney[/size]

By paladisious


[size=7]Logos[/size]

[size=6]Adelaide 2[/size]

By Milan_7


Merger between Adelaide City and Adelaide Blue Eagles

[size=6]Auckland[/size]

By imonfourfourtwo


[size=6]Ballarat[/size]

By paladisious


[size=6]Canberra[/size]

By imonfourfourtwo


By Volrath2002







[size=6]East Timor[/size]

By paladisious


[size=6]Geelong[/size]

By imonfourfourtwo


By imonfourfourtwo


By imonfourfourtwo


[size=6]Ipswich[/size]

By rookoz


[size=6]Tasmania[/size]

By imonfourfourtwo


[size=7]Kits[/size]

[size=6]Multiple Teams[/size]

By Wiliamn


notes:
- auckland home similar to auckland city, and away similar to waitekere
- wollongong kits, most similar to what they have worn in the past. could replace away with a grey kit
- geelong to wear white shorts and socks or blue shorts and socks with the home kit, whichever is most suitable against their opponent
- if too many greens, canberra could wear blue/white/yellow as their home kit instead.

By Williamn


[size=6]Auckland[/size]

By imonfourfourtwo


Joint venture between Auckland City and Waitakere United.

By imonfourfourtwo


[size=6]Ballarat[/size]

By imonfourfourtwo


Name: Ballarat Town (acknowledging its regional location, not too cheesy), "the golden boys" with their all gold kit.
Colours: Caret (bloodshed at the Eureka Stockade) and Gold (the gold rush)
Logo: shovel and pick (mining), monogram, flames and pitchfork (Ballarat Red Devils), swan (Lake Wendouree), eight pointed star (Eureka flag), poppet head (mining once more).
Ground: Morshead Park (upgraded)

By Paladisious


Colours are blue white and gold, blue and white for Eureka and gold for the obvious.

[size=6]Brisbane 2[/size]



[size=6]Canberra[/size]

By paladisious


By imonfourfourtwo


By El-Telepathy





[size=6]Darwin[/size]



[size=6]Geelong[/size]



By imonfourfourtwo




[size=6]Hobart[/size]

By paladisious


[size=6]Ipswich[/size]

By imonfourfourtwo


Notes: Brisbane like their jacaranda trees, jacarandas are purple, so Ipswich can be purple.

By imonfourfourtwo


Notes: Logo wise Ipswich is home to a large air base, so I've gone with a basic roundel, I like things simple (similar to Hamburg SV). Still going with the Ipswich City name though.

[size=6]Launceston[/size]

By paladisious


Southern Sydney






By imonfourfourtwo


[size=6]Tasmania[/size]



[size=6]Townsville[/size]

By paladisious


Western Australia(Perth 2)



[size=6]Wollongong[/size]

By Paladisious




[size=6]Fan campaigns for A-league expansion[/size]

https://www.facebook.com/ExpandTheALeague
https://aleagueexpansion.wordpress.com/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-League-for-South-West-Sydney/1396511317259652
https://www.facebook.com/CbrAthleticALeagueBid
https://www.facebook.com/southcoastaleague
https://www.facebook.com/strikersforaleague
https://www.facebook.com/CanberraForALeague?fref=nf

[size=8]Opinion pieces on A-league expansion, location and relocation[/size]



David Gallop
Craig Foster
Professional Footballers' Association (PFA)
Eric Kontos, Sydney South West
Bill Molloy, Tasmania
Simon Hill, FFA Funding Expansion

Please discuss and please add more:)

Special thanks to tbitm for population projections and Gyfox for the registered players per state and the Sydney sub-regions population projections.



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Nice thread. please add to the index mods?
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tbitm wrote:
tbitm wrote:
tbitm wrote:
tbitm wrote:
tbitm wrote:
[quote=Roar_Brisbane]Nice thread. please add to the index mods?

this

i agree

+1

+2

x100000000000!!!!!
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Ty for the support guys i appreciate it:)
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Excellent OP. I thought this was going to be one of those threads where the same argument is thrown around like a tumble dryer with no meaningful results. Good way to kick off some meaningful discussion.

I'll throw in my 5c which I've voiced in the trillions of meaningless threads over the years.

I find it pretty disappointing that our nations capital (despite what people may think of the place as an actual location) was not in the initial 8 teams. Quite frankly (and I don't want to start flame wars here!) but we could have done without the NZ Knights in the opening years, and had a Canberra team to kick start the league off. If anything, I believe the relative success of the W-League Canberra franchise has paved the way to prove that the ACT, or Canberra could have an extremely sucessful supporter base, and draw crowds no just from within the ACT, but from populated locations as far away as Thredbo/Perisher, Goulburn and the like.

In my honest opinion, the next expansion MUST be to our nations capital. To me it's just pretty poor form we don't have one already.

After that throw a dog a bone to a Tasmanian franchise. The real difficulty there is the location. Pop it in Launceston, and Hobartians will be upset - and vice versa. Unless you called the franchise after the state - i.e. Tasmanian Loggers United - and play half their games in Hobart and the other half in Launceston. The only real thing I think holding a Tasmanian franchise back, short of investors, is a rectangular ground. Whilst as picturesque as Aurora Park and Bellrieve Oval may be - being ovals isn't exactly great footballing infrastructure, especially as Bellrieve has a full time cricket pitch smack bang in the middle of it. Could it work? I guess you don't know until you've tried it. The Sydney FC vs Adelaide United fixtures @ the Adelaide Oval didn't turn out too badly, IIRC. They got healthy attendances to both fixtures and I can't remember the cricket pitch interfering too much with the general style and flow of play.

The retangular park and stadium I think is the one thing Canberra has in favour over a A-League spot at the expense of Tasmania - playing out of Canberra Stadium is fine. Perfect size ground. 20k.

WOLLONGONG WOLVES FOR A-LEAGUE EXPANSION!

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That is a solid crowd in Dunedin for just a preseason game.

Personally would like to see Wollongong be the next move for HAL expansion, but the addition of any viable club is great

Edited by jparraga: 31/12/2012 12:36:38 AM
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Out of all of the Qld areas, Townsville (NQ Fury) has to be next. All the thinsg that could go wrong did go wrong for them. Poor results, Ownership issues, terrible weather. Yet they still averaged about 5.3K in their two seasons. Which is a start. This time if all runs smoothly I can see them building a core of 8K. Which would be fantastic for a regional centre.
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If Townsville do re-enter i wouldnt mind seeing some kind of affiliation with the military, maybe discounted tickets?
A tasmanian side could face problems with the Big bash being on at the same time.



North Hobart oval is not used by any major teams and has been suggested to be made a rectangular ground.

And ty for the compliments again.

Edited by aussie4ever4: 31/12/2012 01:02:31 AM
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Aussie4ever4 wrote:
If Townsville do re-enter i wouldnt mind seeing some kind of affiliation with the military, maybe discounted tickets?

That would be interesting. Maybe just have it as a once off each year. Support your local troops round or something.
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I think you'll find that Ipswich will be an increasingly attractive prospect. It is the fastest growing area in australia and has grown by something like 70k people in the last 10 years.
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tbitm wrote:
tbitm wrote:
tbitm wrote:
tbitm wrote:
tbitm wrote:
tbitm wrote:
[quote=Roar_Brisbane]Nice thread. please add to the index mods?

this

i agree

+1

+2

x100000000000!!!!!

Done. Help a mod out, link to this thread (nicely) if new users start up a new expansion thread. Historically these pop up at least once every 4-6 months. Ta.

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I think the priority needs to be a heartland built up around south eastern australia. Teams in Wollongong, Canberra, Geelong, Tassie will not only provide a team for this regions, but also increases Footballs media presence as well as more reachable away trips for fans in NSW and VIC. Auckland could work if it was done properly, ie Auckland City promoted and playing out of Mt Smart Stadium.

There needs to be more of a emphasis from now on though of potential teams proving their worth through the APL. Even if we never have promotion and relegation, it is a much fairer and safer way of adding to the league.

Right proudly high over Dublin town, they hung out the flag of war.

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Heineken wrote:
Excellent OP. I thought this was going to be one of those threads where the same argument is thrown around like a tumble dryer with no meaningful results. Good way to kick off some meaningful discussion.

I'll throw in my 5c which I've voiced in the trillions of meaningless threads over the years.

I find it pretty disappointing that our nations capital (despite what people may think of the place as an actual location) was not in the initial 8 teams. Quite frankly (and I don't want to start flame wars here!) but we could have done without the NZ Knights in the opening years, and had a Canberra team to kick start the league off. If anything, I believe the relative success of the W-League Canberra franchise has paved the way to prove that the ACT, or Canberra could have an extremely sucessful supporter base, and draw crowds no just from within the ACT, but from populated locations as far away as Thredbo/Perisher, Goulburn and the like.

In my honest opinion, the next expansion MUST be to our nations capital. To me it's just pretty poor form we don't have one already.

After that throw a dog a bone to a Tasmanian franchise. The real difficulty there is the location. Pop it in Launceston, and Hobartians will be upset - and vice versa. Unless you called the franchise after the state - i.e. Tasmanian Loggers United - and play half their games in Hobart and the other half in Launceston. The only real thing I think holding a Tasmanian franchise back, short of investors, is a rectangular ground. Whilst as picturesque as Aurora Park and Bellrieve Oval may be - being ovals isn't exactly great footballing infrastructure, especially as Bellrieve has a full time cricket pitch smack bang in the middle of it. Could it work? I guess you don't know until you've tried it. The Sydney FC vs Adelaide United fixtures @ the Adelaide Oval didn't turn out too badly, IIRC. They got healthy attendances to both fixtures and I can't remember the cricket pitch interfering too much with the general style and flow of play.

The retangular park and stadium I think is the one thing Canberra has in favour over a A-League spot at the expense of Tasmania - playing out of Canberra Stadium is fine. Perfect size ground. 20k.


I agree that Canberra should be the next team into the A-League - whether they amalgamate with the W-League team and call themselves Canberra United or Canberra Cosmonauts (or whatever) is up to them.

We have to keep the expansions in two in my opinion. Adding Heart alone to have 11 teams 3 seasons ago was a complete shemozzle and in fact probably worked against both Heart and NQF.

The team to come in with Canberra should be Tasmania! Maybe instead of Loggers though we can call them Tasmania Timbers FC? This also avoids another "United". Out of the 16 (or 17) home games you'd want 6 of them played in Launceston and 10 in Hobart, maybe with a regional game in Devonport (Burnie's probably too small and only 47km from Devonport).
In Hobart I don't think they can play out of Bellerive Oval because the Hobart Hurricanes use it for BBL and the schedule would clash. Having said that, Cricket Tasmania just announced a $30m upgrade to Blundstone Arena to be finished August-September 2014 to take seating from 15k to 20k! This stadium can be used (outside of BBL schedule) for bigger games, i.e. against Victory, Sydney FC, Adelaide!? So, that means for the rest of the games they'll have to built a rectangular stadium or play in an existing smaller stadium, which may just require some extra 'temp' seating and a TV tower upgrade to meet Fox Sports' standards.
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Townsville really needs a stadium with adequate cover. One hint of rain before kick-off (summer = monsoon) and the crowd is screwed for the match. Cowboys don't have this problem as rain is almost non-existent in winter. I'd maybe like to see Canberra given a look in.



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I'm sorry but i dont think that one off games at any venue should be used to determine possible venues.

As for expansion - It should not even be considered unless the next TV is double what it is now - for what it is worth though Canberra probably does have a strong case however 2 things IMHO are deterents 1. Is the city itself - who wants to live there ?? They will churn players faster than you can blink. 2 How passionate are they for a team - how passionate aare the fans ?? They have deep deep roots for the Raiders and Brumbies - Raiders especially and they struggle for real crowds - unless they have a star team with 2 or 3 star players playing great football - they will flop.


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Considering how conservative Gallop was to expansion in the NRL I can't see him having any expansion while he is in charge. So how long is his tenure?
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Roar_Brisbane wrote:
Aussie4ever4 wrote:
If Townsville do re-enter i wouldnt mind seeing some kind of affiliation with the military, maybe discounted tickets?

That would be interesting. Maybe just have it as a once off each year. Support your local troops round or something.

I spoke about exactly this with an Army mate when Fury were still around. Thing is, everyone up there for the military are only there on a transient basis and support teams and codes from their home states.

If you offered a discount on the bar for ADF personnel however, that might work :lol:

M80.

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Roar_Brisbane wrote:
Considering how conservative Gallop was to expansion in the NRL I can't see him having any expansion while he is in charge. So how long is his tenure?


pretty different circumstance though?

However in saying that can't see FFA retracting on it's stance to hold off on expansion till at least 2015
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Red_or_Dead wrote:
Heineken wrote:
Excellent OP. I thought this was going to be one of those threads where the same argument is thrown around like a tumble dryer with no meaningful results. Good way to kick off some meaningful discussion.

I'll throw in my 5c which I've voiced in the trillions of meaningless threads over the years.

I find it pretty disappointing that our nations capital (despite what people may think of the place as an actual location) was not in the initial 8 teams. Quite frankly (and I don't want to start flame wars here!) but we could have done without the NZ Knights in the opening years, and had a Canberra team to kick start the league off. If anything, I believe the relative success of the W-League Canberra franchise has paved the way to prove that the ACT, or Canberra could have an extremely sucessful supporter base, and draw crowds no just from within the ACT, but from populated locations as far away as Thredbo/Perisher, Goulburn and the like.

In my honest opinion, the next expansion MUST be to our nations capital. To me it's just pretty poor form we don't have one already.

After that throw a dog a bone to a Tasmanian franchise. The real difficulty there is the location. Pop it in Launceston, and Hobartians will be upset - and vice versa. Unless you called the franchise after the state - i.e. Tasmanian Loggers United - and play half their games in Hobart and the other half in Launceston. The only real thing I think holding a Tasmanian franchise back, short of investors, is a rectangular ground. Whilst as picturesque as Aurora Park and Bellrieve Oval may be - being ovals isn't exactly great footballing infrastructure, especially as Bellrieve has a full time cricket pitch smack bang in the middle of it. Could it work? I guess you don't know until you've tried it. The Sydney FC vs Adelaide United fixtures @ the Adelaide Oval didn't turn out too badly, IIRC. They got healthy attendances to both fixtures and I can't remember the cricket pitch interfering too much with the general style and flow of play.

The retangular park and stadium I think is the one thing Canberra has in favour over a A-League spot at the expense of Tasmania - playing out of Canberra Stadium is fine. Perfect size ground. 20k.


I agree that Canberra should be the next team into the A-League - whether they amalgamate with the W-League team and call themselves Canberra United or Canberra Cosmonauts (or whatever) is up to them.

We have to keep the expansions in two in my opinion. Adding Heart alone to have 11 teams 3 seasons ago was a complete shemozzle and in fact probably worked against both Heart and NQF.

The team to come in with Canberra should be Tasmania! Maybe instead of Loggers though we can call them Tasmania Timbers FC? This also avoids another "United". Out of the 16 (or 17) home games you'd want 6 of them played in Launceston and 10 in Hobart, maybe with a regional game in Devonport (Burnie's probably too small and only 47km from Devonport).
In Hobart I don't think they can play out of Bellerive Oval because the Hobart Hurricanes use it for BBL and the schedule would clash. Having said that, Cricket Tasmania just announced a $30m upgrade to Blundstone Arena to be finished August-September 2014 to take seating from 15k to 20k! This stadium can be used (outside of BBL schedule) for bigger games, i.e. against Victory, Sydney FC, Adelaide!? So, that means for the rest of the games they'll have to built a rectangular stadium or play in an existing smaller stadium, which may just require some extra 'temp' seating and a TV tower upgrade to meet Fox Sports' standards.

Timbers would be a good name for them, I agree. They would maybe be able to set up a support-network/sister-club relationship with say the Portland Timbers in the MLS. Have player swaps/pre-season friendly tours, and sell each others merchandise. (Although the latter probably wouldn't exactly kick off)

I agree though, I think the #1 thing holding back a potential Tasmanian bid is their lack of rectangular ground infrastructure. Unless they can get some big mining/logging company to sponser them, take them right under their wing and build them a boutique 15k stadium, I think they'll struggle for a successful bid. AFAIA - the Tasmanian Government is pro-AFL and would probably never support the building of a rectangular stadium. Certainly can't see them putting too much cash - if any at all - towards a plan.

WOLLONGONG WOLVES FOR A-LEAGUE EXPANSION!

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jparraga wrote:
Roar_Brisbane wrote:
Considering how conservative Gallop was to expansion in the NRL I can't see him having any expansion while he is in charge. So how long is his tenure?


pretty different circumstance though?

Yeah it is different, but Gallop has always been known for being conservative. If we don't expand until after 2015 hopefully we will see the FFA cup soon.
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playmaker11 wrote:
Townsville really needs a stadium with adequate cover. One hint of rain before kick-off (summer = monsoon) and the crowd is screwed for the match. Cowboys don't have this problem as rain is almost non-existent in winter. I'd maybe like to see Canberra given a look in.

Honestly don't see this happening. Given the Fury never looked like getting sellouts, and the biggest draw card for Cowboys home games is against Brisbane Broncos - and even that rarely sells out I can't see the Government or the owners of the stadium putting any money forward for expansion and/or re-development.

WOLLONGONG WOLVES FOR A-LEAGUE EXPANSION!

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Roar_Brisbane wrote:
jparraga wrote:
Roar_Brisbane wrote:
Considering how conservative Gallop was to expansion in the NRL I can't see him having any expansion while he is in charge. So how long is his tenure?


pretty different circumstance though?

Yeah it is different, but Gallop has always been known for being conservative. If we don't expand until after 2015 hopefully we will see the FFA cup soon.

The Victory Chairman and General Manager told us at the member's meeting the other week that there will absolutely definitely not be an FFA Cup in the short to medium term, presumably the term of the upcoming TV deal.

M80.

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ThrylosG7 wrote:
I'm sorry but i dont think that one off games at any venue should be used to determine possible venues.


The crowd figures wernt ment to be a justification for a team to enter the A-league, although it does help there cause.

///////

I wouldnt have a problem with having smaller teams in the league would small crowds(around 5k), as long as that team represents an area and they're doing everything they can to ensure good crowds(unlike GCU and Palmer).

Smaller teams though need better stadium deals so they dont need big crowds and end up folding. Extra TV money would help smaller clubs cover the salary cap and help them remain competitive. We do need our big city clubs pulling though.

idk if what i just said made any sense.




Edited by aussie4ever4: 31/12/2012 01:56:05 AM
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Heineken wrote:
playmaker11 wrote:
Townsville really needs a stadium with adequate cover. One hint of rain before kick-off (summer = monsoon) and the crowd is screwed for the match. Cowboys don't have this problem as rain is almost non-existent in winter. I'd maybe like to see Canberra given a look in.

Honestly don't see this happening. Given the Fury never looked like getting sellouts, and the biggest draw card for Cowboys home games is against Brisbane Broncos - and even that rarely sells out I can't see the Government or the owners of the stadium putting any money forward for expansion and/or re-development.

The Newman won't be opening up their wallets that's for sure.
tbitm
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Aussie4ever4 wrote:
Ty for the support guys i appreciate it:)

no worries. its no secret the people on this forum love talking expansion. But if i have to be honest i would categorise it a bit differently with Geelong, Tasmania, South melbourne and 3rd sydney (lets not talk 4th just yet) in the others as they all are 1 step away from being a real front runner imo.

Geelong are a sports mad city so it doesn't surprise me that they got one of the highest attendances for a pre-season game. However, i don't believe geelong should be given a team if they are going to play out of simmonds stadium. Its way too big and an oval so a proper football stadium similar to hindmarsh is a must imo. It is also important to add that there have been talks about doing this if geelong are given a licence.

Tasmania, very similar to Geelong in that they are sports mad and they are an untapped market but they are much like geelong to me in that i don't want them in if there isn't a proper football stadium in place there.

South melbourne won't be given a team until heart pull good crowds every week (>10k) which i believe is just a true marquee player or a championship away which then south melbourne would be seen as a strong favourite for the next team

3rd sydney will be given a team once west sydney also start pulling good (>12k)* which i think they are probably just a couple seasons away from doing and if sydney are able to continue getting >16k even when del piero retires

*the reason i think ws should get 12k instead of 10k like i put for heart is because i believe the next sydney team will be a penerith or campelltown team which will take supporters away from them and not so much sfc


and don't even bother having Darwin, Duniden, Ipswitch, Cairns, Toowoomba, Hamilton, Gippsland, Mackay, Mandurah, Ballarat, Bendigo, Rockhampton, Albury-Wodonga, Burnie – Devonport, Bunbury, Bundaberg, Tauranga, Palmerston North and Napier as there are too many other better candidates. These places can be discussed when a 2nd division (not necessarily pro/rel) props up.


AJohn
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I don't think Dunedin is a good place for expansion, purely because around December the crowds will diminish significantly s Uni students head home.
Roar_Brisbane
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paladisious wrote:
Roar_Brisbane wrote:
jparraga wrote:
Roar_Brisbane wrote:
Considering how conservative Gallop was to expansion in the NRL I can't see him having any expansion while he is in charge. So how long is his tenure?


pretty different circumstance though?

Yeah it is different, but Gallop has always been known for being conservative. If we don't expand until after 2015 hopefully we will see the FFA cup soon.

The Victory Chairman and General Manager told us at the member's meeting the other week that there will absolutely definitely not be an FFA Cup in the short to medium term, presumably the term of the upcoming TV deal.

I really hope they are working on it. It's been in the melting pot for quite some time and we've seen nothing so far.
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Don't mean to be pessimistic but reading all this can't help but get the feeling that any HAL expansion is at least 5-10 years away from being viable and similar for any notion of an FFA cup. In saying that consolidation is not a bad thing.
Roar_Brisbane
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I really hope areas that can significantly help player development is considered in expansion. Teams in NQld, Canberra and Tasmania would create clearer pathways for youth.
Red_or_Dead
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Heineken wrote:
Red_or_Dead wrote:
Heineken wrote:
Excellent OP. I thought this was going to be one of those threads where the same argument is thrown around like a tumble dryer with no meaningful results. Good way to kick off some meaningful discussion.

I'll throw in my 5c which I've voiced in the trillions of meaningless threads over the years.

I find it pretty disappointing that our nations capital (despite what people may think of the place as an actual location) was not in the initial 8 teams. Quite frankly (and I don't want to start flame wars here!) but we could have done without the NZ Knights in the opening years, and had a Canberra team to kick start the league off. If anything, I believe the relative success of the W-League Canberra franchise has paved the way to prove that the ACT, or Canberra could have an extremely sucessful supporter base, and draw crowds no just from within the ACT, but from populated locations as far away as Thredbo/Perisher, Goulburn and the like.

In my honest opinion, the next expansion MUST be to our nations capital. To me it's just pretty poor form we don't have one already.

After that throw a dog a bone to a Tasmanian franchise. The real difficulty there is the location. Pop it in Launceston, and Hobartians will be upset - and vice versa. Unless you called the franchise after the state - i.e. Tasmanian Loggers United - and play half their games in Hobart and the other half in Launceston. The only real thing I think holding a Tasmanian franchise back, short of investors, is a rectangular ground. Whilst as picturesque as Aurora Park and Bellrieve Oval may be - being ovals isn't exactly great footballing infrastructure, especially as Bellrieve has a full time cricket pitch smack bang in the middle of it. Could it work? I guess you don't know until you've tried it. The Sydney FC vs Adelaide United fixtures @ the Adelaide Oval didn't turn out too badly, IIRC. They got healthy attendances to both fixtures and I can't remember the cricket pitch interfering too much with the general style and flow of play.

The retangular park and stadium I think is the one thing Canberra has in favour over a A-League spot at the expense of Tasmania - playing out of Canberra Stadium is fine. Perfect size ground. 20k.


I agree that Canberra should be the next team into the A-League - whether they amalgamate with the W-League team and call themselves Canberra United or Canberra Cosmonauts (or whatever) is up to them.

We have to keep the expansions in two in my opinion. Adding Heart alone to have 11 teams 3 seasons ago was a complete shemozzle and in fact probably worked against both Heart and NQF.

The team to come in with Canberra should be Tasmania! Maybe instead of Loggers though we can call them Tasmania Timbers FC? This also avoids another "United". Out of the 16 (or 17) home games you'd want 6 of them played in Launceston and 10 in Hobart, maybe with a regional game in Devonport (Burnie's probably too small and only 47km from Devonport).
In Hobart I don't think they can play out of Bellerive Oval because the Hobart Hurricanes use it for BBL and the schedule would clash. Having said that, Cricket Tasmania just announced a $30m upgrade to Blundstone Arena to be finished August-September 2014 to take seating from 15k to 20k! This stadium can be used (outside of BBL schedule) for bigger games, i.e. against Victory, Sydney FC, Adelaide!? So, that means for the rest of the games they'll have to built a rectangular stadium or play in an existing smaller stadium, which may just require some extra 'temp' seating and a TV tower upgrade to meet Fox Sports' standards.

Timbers would be a good name for them, I agree. They would maybe be able to set up a support-network/sister-club relationship with say the Portland Timbers in the MLS. Have player swaps/pre-season friendly tours, and sell each others merchandise. (Although the latter probably wouldn't exactly kick off)

I agree though, I think the #1 thing holding back a potential Tasmanian bid is their lack of rectangular ground infrastructure. Unless they can get some big mining/logging company to sponser them, take them right under their wing and build them a boutique 15k stadium, I think they'll struggle for a successful bid. AFAIA - the Tasmanian Government is pro-AFL and would probably never support the building of a rectangular stadium. Certainly can't see them putting too much cash - if any at all - towards a plan.


Yep, I was thinking of Portland when I thought of "Tasmania Timbers", but having said all that, I don't think Tasmania they'll come through with the goods in good time and there are other places making much more noise at the moment.

So this is how I see the next expansion going in 2017/18. I'd love it to be earlier, but I'm putting this in line with the next TV deal:
11. Canberra United (Already have a stadium and a W-League side)
12. Northern Fury FC (Re-branded to better represent NQ and NT. Could spread games between Townsville: 9, Cairns: 5, Darwin: 2, "Regional match": Mackay)

Once the global economy picks up we won't have to wait for the next TV deal so two years on in 2019/20:
13. Illawarra Wolves (Don't like 'South Coast', too many "Coastal" teams! hehe)
14. Tasmania Timbers FC

Then finally to cap off 16 teams, a new TV deal and gear up for an extremely hot World Cup in 2021/22
15. Auckland United FC (Co-contribution of Auckland City FC and Waitakere United)
16. Greater Geelong FC (By then Heart would've grown enough to not be impacted by Geelong's entry)
GO


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