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Slobodan Drauposevic
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adrtho wrote:Draupnir wrote:adrtho wrote:bluebird wrote:Enzo Bearzot wrote:No. But P and R in Europe took 100 years to get to where it is today. Japan about 30 years, BUT
1. they have far bigger populations
2. They have a land mass that is tiny in comparison
3. They have money we can only dream of
4. They don't have the same intense competition from numerous other sports, limiting venue availability, money, and media air time.
There are clubs in Europe that would kill to have Mariners and Jets gates, and yet they're doing better financially overall simply because all of the above.
Enjoy the A-League- you've never had it better and probably won't in your life-time, until we get to 14 teams.
And that will be that. Nice try but Australia already has PR. So does Malaysia and many other leagues with less resources than the A League The A League can't implement P/R because it has chosen a financially weak model with ridiculous entry criteria. If they halved the entry criteria you would see a flurry of clubs lining up to join the A League But they cant halve the criteria because they have chosen a balanced competition and doing so would weaken the top The A League has 4 square wheels, now it is trying to build a car Those against P/R is saying a car is impossible, where as those for it are saying we simply have to round off the wheels Edited by bluebird: 12/3/2016 02:29:02 PM bullshit when A-League sign a TV deal as big as eredivisie, you be still talking the same bullshit How big is the Eredivisie deal? about €65 a year (i not sure what they get international) 11 years Scotland is now about £17m for all leagues, £1.5m for BBC Scotland ( TV highlights) and radio live, £2m a year international and Eredivisie got a great deal, because the Eredivisie own the tv rights on there own TV channel , and Fox sports started in Holand and paid for 11 years Austria is about €20 a year Greece was about €40 Belgium €55 Norway Tippeligaen €34 (but they say that going to drop big time on 2017) Edited by adrtho: 12/3/2016 03:07:39 PM That's funny considering these reports saying: The Eredivisie has a deal worth over a billion Euros for 12 years which supplies each club with an average of 80 million a season. Belgian Pro League gets 60. Norway is 41.
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banzai
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adrtho wrote:Draupnir wrote:adrtho wrote:bluebird wrote:Enzo Bearzot wrote:No. But P and R in Europe took 100 years to get to where it is today. Japan about 30 years, BUT
1. they have far bigger populations
2. They have a land mass that is tiny in comparison
3. They have money we can only dream of
4. They don't have the same intense competition from numerous other sports, limiting venue availability, money, and media air time.
There are clubs in Europe that would kill to have Mariners and Jets gates, and yet they're doing better financially overall simply because all of the above.
Enjoy the A-League- you've never had it better and probably won't in your life-time, until we get to 14 teams.
And that will be that. Nice try but Australia already has PR. So does Malaysia and many other leagues with less resources than the A League The A League can't implement P/R because it has chosen a financially weak model with ridiculous entry criteria. If they halved the entry criteria you would see a flurry of clubs lining up to join the A League But they cant halve the criteria because they have chosen a balanced competition and doing so would weaken the top The A League has 4 square wheels, now it is trying to build a car Those against P/R is saying a car is impossible, where as those for it are saying we simply have to round off the wheels Edited by bluebird: 12/3/2016 02:29:02 PM bullshit when A-League sign a TV deal as big as eredivisie, you be still talking the same bullshit How big is the Eredivisie deal? about €65 a year (i not sure what they get international) 11 years Scotland is now about £17m for all leagues, £1.5m for BBC Scotland ( TV highlights) and radio live, £2m a year international and Eredivisie got a great deal, because the Eredivisie own the tv rights on there own TV channel , and Fox sports started in Holand and paid for 11 years Austria is about €20 a year Greece was about €40 Belgium €55 Norway Tippeligaen €34 (but they say that going to drop big time on 2017) Edited by adrtho: 12/3/2016 03:07:39 PM Why are these figures so poor though in countries where football is supposed to be popular. The population of the Netherlands isnt that far less Australia, yet the AFL and NRL get $400 odd million per year each and they only really take up half the country. All of these leagues outside the big 4 seem to be dying, surely not being competetive enough and only a few teams being able to win has something to do with that. Edited by banzai: 12/3/2016 04:09:59 PMEdited by banzai: 12/3/2016 04:10:51 PM
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adrtho
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Draupnir wrote:adrtho wrote:Draupnir wrote:adrtho wrote:bluebird wrote:Enzo Bearzot wrote:No. But P and R in Europe took 100 years to get to where it is today. Japan about 30 years, BUT
1. they have far bigger populations
2. They have a land mass that is tiny in comparison
3. They have money we can only dream of
4. They don't have the same intense competition from numerous other sports, limiting venue availability, money, and media air time.
There are clubs in Europe that would kill to have Mariners and Jets gates, and yet they're doing better financially overall simply because all of the above.
Enjoy the A-League- you've never had it better and probably won't in your life-time, until we get to 14 teams.
And that will be that. Nice try but Australia already has PR. So does Malaysia and many other leagues with less resources than the A League The A League can't implement P/R because it has chosen a financially weak model with ridiculous entry criteria. If they halved the entry criteria you would see a flurry of clubs lining up to join the A League But they cant halve the criteria because they have chosen a balanced competition and doing so would weaken the top The A League has 4 square wheels, now it is trying to build a car Those against P/R is saying a car is impossible, where as those for it are saying we simply have to round off the wheels Edited by bluebird: 12/3/2016 02:29:02 PM bullshit when A-League sign a TV deal as big as eredivisie, you be still talking the same bullshit How big is the Eredivisie deal? about €65 a year (i not sure what they get international) 11 years Scotland is now about £17m for all leagues, £1.5m for BBC Scotland ( TV highlights) and radio live, £2m a year international and Eredivisie got a great deal, because the Eredivisie own the tv rights on there own TV channel , and Fox sports started in Holand and paid for 11 years Austria is about €20 a year Greece was about €40 Belgium €55 Norway Tippeligaen €34 (but they say that going to drop big time on 2017) Edited by adrtho: 12/3/2016 03:07:39 PM That's funny considering these reports saying: The Eredivisie has a deal worth over a billion Euros for 12 years which supplies each club with an average of 80 million a season. Belgian Pro League gets 60. Norway is 41. Norway is new deal on 15th Dec 2015 , the last deal was for 1.6bn Norwegian krone for 4 years, and now it;s 2.4 billion Norwegian krone for 6 years,,,,so it the same money per year in Norwegian krone, it just currency changes wih Euro to krone....it's a very good deal for Tippeligaen, the talk was there be only one buyer for Tippeligaen (TV2) but Discovery Networks brought Eurosports and paid the same money eredivisie doesn't give each club , it says "paying an average of €80m to clubs per season" there 18 clubs per season Edited by adrtho: 12/3/2016 04:46:44 PM
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DraupKick
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I want to see relgation but do we have the money? No.
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adrtho
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banzai wrote:adrtho wrote:Draupnir wrote:adrtho wrote:bluebird wrote:Enzo Bearzot wrote:No. But P and R in Europe took 100 years to get to where it is today. Japan about 30 years, BUT
1. they have far bigger populations
2. They have a land mass that is tiny in comparison
3. They have money we can only dream of
4. They don't have the same intense competition from numerous other sports, limiting venue availability, money, and media air time.
There are clubs in Europe that would kill to have Mariners and Jets gates, and yet they're doing better financially overall simply because all of the above.
Enjoy the A-League- you've never had it better and probably won't in your life-time, until we get to 14 teams.
And that will be that. Nice try but Australia already has PR. So does Malaysia and many other leagues with less resources than the A League The A League can't implement P/R because it has chosen a financially weak model with ridiculous entry criteria. If they halved the entry criteria you would see a flurry of clubs lining up to join the A League But they cant halve the criteria because they have chosen a balanced competition and doing so would weaken the top The A League has 4 square wheels, now it is trying to build a car Those against P/R is saying a car is impossible, where as those for it are saying we simply have to round off the wheels Edited by bluebird: 12/3/2016 02:29:02 PM bullshit when A-League sign a TV deal as big as eredivisie, you be still talking the same bullshit How big is the Eredivisie deal? about €65 a year (i not sure what they get international) 11 years Scotland is now about £17m for all leagues, £1.5m for BBC Scotland ( TV highlights) and radio live, £2m a year international and Eredivisie got a great deal, because the Eredivisie own the tv rights on there own TV channel , and Fox sports started in Holand and paid for 11 years Austria is about €20 a year Greece was about €40 Belgium €55 Norway Tippeligaen €34 (but they say that going to drop big time on 2017) Edited by adrtho: 12/3/2016 03:07:39 PM Why are these figures so poor though in countries where football is supposed to be popular. The population of the Netherlands isnt that far less Australia, yet the AFL and NRL get $400 odd million per year each and they only really take up half the country. All of these leagues outside the big 4 seem to be dying, surely not being competetive enough and only a few teams being able to win has something to do with that. Edited by banzai: 12/3/2016 04:09:59 PMEdited by banzai: 12/3/2016 04:10:51 PM because EPL and Champ league has taken all the money in Europe, and the other European league have lost because of it
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Slobodan Drauposevic
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adrtho wrote:because EPL and Champ league has taken all the money in Europe, and the other European league have lost because of it
All you do is talk shit, don't you? Absolute nonsense. The Bundesliga TV rights increased 63% over their last deal. You are clueless.
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adrtho
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Draupnir wrote:adrtho wrote:because EPL and Champ league has taken all the money in Europe, and the other European league have lost because of it
All you do is talk shit, don't you? Absolute nonsense. The Bundesliga TV rights increased 63% over their last deal. You are clueless. yes,,EPL, Bundesliga , Spain Italy....France only make it Because they fix the world cup to Qatar , and Bein sports paid the bribe by buying into French football €80m a year in Holland for the number one sport (football) is nothing €60m a year for football in Belgium is nothing The A-league and Football in Australia, have no right to be getting anywhere close to the money that football gets in Holland and Belgium, but the A-league and Football in Australia will...why? because the A-league is better product , made for TV , todays TV
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Slobodan Drauposevic
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adrtho wrote:Draupnir wrote:adrtho wrote:because EPL and Champ league has taken all the money in Europe, and the other European league have lost because of it
All you do is talk shit, don't you? Absolute nonsense. The Bundesliga TV rights increased 63% over their last deal. You are clueless. yes,,EPL, Bundesliga , Spain Italy....France only make it Because they fix the world cup to Qatar , and Bein sports paid the bribe by buying into French football €80m a year in Holland for the number one sport (football) is nothing €60m a year for football in Belgium is nothing The A-league and Football in Australia, have no right to be getting anywhere close to the money that football gets in Holland and Belgium, but the A-league and Football in Australia will...why? because the A-league is better product , made for TV , todays TV Nonsense. A football field has a set of two goalposts mate, not 2342 that you think you can change.
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banzai
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adrtho wrote:
because EPL and Champ league has taken all the money in Europe, and the other European league have lost because of it
But then don't the leagues outside of the big 4, the ones without the best players in the world, dont they need to try something different and have a point of difference to generate interest. Why is P/R not saving these leagues and keeping them popular if it is so good. I just look at all the sporting leagues around the world with salary caps and most have seemed to be able to increase their value significantly in recent times. The football leagues around the world that can afford the best players will always be fine, but i think the others need to become more competitive competitions to generate more interest. Edited by banzai: 12/3/2016 05:16:41 PM
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adrtho
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Draupnir wrote:adrtho wrote:because EPL and Champ league has taken all the money in Europe, and the other European league have lost because of it
All you do is talk shit, don't you? Absolute nonsense. The Bundesliga TV rights increased 63% over their last deal. You are clueless. and Bundesliga (all the Germany league) getting €650m a year from a country with 80 million people is not much money when we look at AFL and NRL getting in Australia Edited by adrtho: 12/3/2016 05:18:32 PM
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Footyball
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Aleague need to break away from FFA, they will be destined to stay small fry otherwise. Break away NOW, expansion, expansion expansion and fta to work on asap. Go to where powerbrokers of the clubs want to really go. Won't rival afl and nrl at this rate.
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bluebird
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banzai wrote:But then don't the leagues outside of the big 4, the ones without the best players in the world, dont they need to try something different and have a point of difference to generate interest. Why is P/R not saving these leagues and keeping them popular if it is so good. I just look at all the sporting leagues around the world with salary caps and most have seemed to be able to increase their value significantly in recent times. The football leagues around the world that can afford the best players will always be fine, but i think the others need to become more competitive competitions to generate more interest. Give examples of sports around the world that have salary caps and don't have the best players, but have been able to increase their value significantly
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GDeathe
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bluebird wrote:banzai wrote:But then don't the leagues outside of the big 4, the ones without the best players in the world, dont they need to try something different and have a point of difference to generate interest. Why is P/R not saving these leagues and keeping them popular if it is so good. I just look at all the sporting leagues around the world with salary caps and most have seemed to be able to increase their value significantly in recent times. The football leagues around the world that can afford the best players will always be fine, but i think the others need to become more competitive competitions to generate more interest. Give examples of sports around the world that have salary caps and don't have the best players, but have been able to increase their value significantly ... MLS
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Aikhme
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RedKat wrote:Can we ban all promo/relegation threads until the league is remotely close enough to being financially viable enough to actually consider it? No, we want free speech. And there are 1 or 2 viable NPL teams that can easily get themselves into the A League and meet all the criteria.
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Slobodan Drauposevic
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GDeathe wrote:bluebird wrote:banzai wrote:But then don't the leagues outside of the big 4, the ones without the best players in the world, dont they need to try something different and have a point of difference to generate interest. Why is P/R not saving these leagues and keeping them popular if it is so good. I just look at all the sporting leagues around the world with salary caps and most have seemed to be able to increase their value significantly in recent times. The football leagues around the world that can afford the best players will always be fine, but i think the others need to become more competitive competitions to generate more interest. Give examples of sports around the world that have salary caps and don't have the best players, but have been able to increase their value significantly ... MLS Big Bash, Indian Premier League, French Top 14, Kontinental Hockey League, NBA, NFL, NHL.
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Aikhme
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southmelb wrote:The thing that annoys me most is when people who oppose it put it down as some sort of European wet dream, the reality is those who follow an npl club follow this format, on Monday night I'm watching south Melbourne travel to newly promoted bulleen, they will kick, scratch, park the bus and do whatever possible to take points off us..why? Because they want to remain in the division and avoid relegation, this is football, real football, if people actually step outside the A league bubble they would realise this concept is part of what we follow year in year out, hell we almost got relegated in 2008. Promotion/relegation is not just a European thing, thousands of supporters in this country live it week in week out. I completely agree.
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bluebird
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Draupnir wrote:Big Bash, Indian Premier League, French Top 14, Kontinental Hockey League, NBA, NFL, NHL. So none of those leagues have the best players?
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bluebird
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1 = singular 2 or more = plural
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aufc_ole
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Draupnir wrote:GDeathe wrote:bluebird wrote:banzai wrote:But then don't the leagues outside of the big 4, the ones without the best players in the world, dont they need to try something different and have a point of difference to generate interest. Why is P/R not saving these leagues and keeping them popular if it is so good. I just look at all the sporting leagues around the world with salary caps and most have seemed to be able to increase their value significantly in recent times. The football leagues around the world that can afford the best players will always be fine, but i think the others need to become more competitive competitions to generate more interest. Give examples of sports around the world that have salary caps and don't have the best players, but have been able to increase their value significantly ... MLS Big Bash, Indian Premier League, French Top 14, Kontinental Hockey League, NBA, NFL, NHL. :-k
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GDeathe
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bluebird wrote:1 = singular 2 or more = plural NRL (I consider super league to have better buying power)
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Arthur
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Promotion & relegation. It is the market mechanism that incentivizes excellence throughout the soccer ecosystem.
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Arthur
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The reforms will have a profound impact on the machinations of Dutch football as the KNVB wants to stimulate promotion and relegation between professional and amateur football to improve the overall quality of Dutch football.http://www.insideworldfootball.com/world-football/europe/18996-dutch-revamp-leagues-to-boost-competitive-structure
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Arthur
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Controversially, what also needs to be considered in my opinion is a national second division so we can begin developing the next tier of playing talent as part of our talent development pathways as well as building the next layer of national football brands. This is by no way an endorsement of promotion relegation as I don’t believe our model can sustain this at the moment. At present, if we as a Club wanted to identify talent in the National Premier League, which is a state by state type tiered football league, we would need to troll through over 200 clubs and around 4,000 players with our best talent spread over too many clubs. In my opinion, we are not seeing the best of the next tier of talent. A national second division (without promotion / relegation to the A-League for now) would capture our best talent across ten (10) clubs providing a national stage for them to shine and be indentified. This view is further reinforced by the current situation where very only few players are rising from the NPL to the A-League as the gap is too big. Capturing the best 200 next tier players in one national second division of ten (10) Clubs will help nurture and develop our best talent as well as build the next layer of football brands.
Recently at Perth Glory we trialled a number of NPL products from all over Australia who are not too far from A-League but not too close either, however, this great young talent would benefit from a second division national tier which will accelerate their transition into the top league by playing in a stronger competition. A close review of the statistics of players transitioning from NPL to A-League will be alarming and needs to be reviewed and considered in the whole of football strategy. Of course this comes with financial challenges, however, if we don’t have aspirational elements to our strategy, we are not trying hard enough.http://peterfilopoulos.com/
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crimsoncrusoe
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If there isn't gong to be relegation,the bottom team should have to some punishment .Like losing the right to play FFA Cup for a season.
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adrtho
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bluebird wrote:Draupnir wrote:Big Bash, Indian Premier League, French Top 14, Kontinental Hockey League, NBA, NFL, NHL. So none of those leagues have the best players? Big Bash, French Top 14, and Kontinental Hockey League don't have best players
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bluebird
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adrtho wrote:Big Bash, French Top 14, and Kontinental Hockey League don't have best players Big Bash does But this is about the A League isn't it? Last TV deal we had 1 more team, 3 more games and one more finals game. This TV deal our increase has seen a backwards step and consolidation. We can't even expand with the next TV deal Not only that but the FFA are looking at taking 25% of the current TV deal and giving it to 10 players Why? Because they know that without better players they can't attract a good TV deal So you might think salary cap is a workable compromise for attracting interest when one doesn't have the best players The reality is salary cap is for keeping teams in breakaway rebel leagues competitive, where they have all the teams, players, and a monopoly on fans When you have competition within your sport in other countries you need to let your best teams reach as far as they can to stand out. Otherwise fans will just follow other leagues Edited by bluebird: 13/3/2016 06:57:07 AM
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adrtho
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bluebird wrote:adrtho wrote:Big Bash, French Top 14, and Kontinental Hockey League don't have best players Big Bash does But this is about the A League isn't it? Last TV deal we had 1 more team, 3 more games and one more finals game. This TV deal our increase has seen a backwards step and consolidation. We can't even expand with the next TV deal Not only that but the FFA are looking at taking 25% of the current TV deal and giving it to 10 players Why? Because they know that without better players they can't attract a good TV deal So you might think salary cap is a workable compromise for attracting interest when one doesn't have the best players The reality is salary cap is for keeping teams in breakaway rebel leagues competitive, where they have all the teams, players, and a monopoly on fans When you have competition within your sport in other countries you need to let your best teams reach as far as they can to stand out. Otherwise fans will just follow other leagues Edited by bluebird: 13/3/2016 06:57:07 AM you're taking from your own make believe world... next TV deal is talk about going from $40m a year (Now) to $80m a year we just seen what other European football league get paid per year from TV Dutch Eredivisie €80m Belgium Por League €60m Norway Tippeligaen €40 Greece €40 Scotland £20m Austria €20 when Dutch can only get €80m for their league football, and Australia look like it will get $80m a year, then i think FFA and the people who work there are doing a far better job then those in Holland or Belgium
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aussie scott21
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adrtho wrote:
you're taking from your own make believe world...
next TV deal is talk about going from $40m a year (Now) to $80m a year
we just seen what other European football league get paid per year from TV
Dutch Eredivisie €80m
when Dutch can only get €80m for their league football, and Australia look like it will get $80m a year, then i think FFA and the people who work there are doing a far better job then those in Holland or Belgium
Please compare leagues. That figure isn't exclusively for A-League. Quote:The deal, which includes A-league matches, Socceroo games and the Asian Cup tournament, is in its third year.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/broadcast/tv-rights-aleague-takes-shot-at-tv-windfall/news-story/a528f7233ce49528954cd3ff8f4ab53fSo the Socceroos are a big part of that money. Edited by scott21: 13/3/2016 07:51:54 AM
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adrtho
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scott21 wrote:adrtho wrote:
you're taking from your own make believe world...
next TV deal is talk about going from $40m a year (Now) to $80m a year
we just seen what other European football league get paid per year from TV
Dutch Eredivisie €80m
when Dutch can only get €80m for their league football, and Australia look like it will get $80m a year, then i think FFA and the people who work there are doing a far better job then those in Holland or Belgium
Please compare leagues. That figure isn't exclusively for A-League. Quote:The deal, which includes A-league matches, Socceroo games and the Asian Cup tournament, is in its third year.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/broadcast/tv-rights-aleague-takes-shot-at-tv-windfall/news-story/a528f7233ce49528954cd3ff8f4ab53fSo the Socceroos are a big part of that money. Edited by scott21: 13/3/2016 07:51:54 AM sure...but that not the point.....the point is, 10 team A-League that start 11 years ago, shouldn't be even close to Dutch with 2 leagues , a 18 teams Eredivisie, and with Football being by far the number 1 sports in Holland when the A-league teams start getting the same money from TV each years as the average Eredivisie team, this should make some people sit back and think about how good the A-league-FFA is doing 18/80 = €4.44m a year ..Edited by adrtho: 13/3/2016 08:33:14 AM
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Arthur
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adrtho wrote:scott21 wrote:adrtho wrote:
you're taking from your own make believe world...
next TV deal is talk about going from $40m a year (Now) to $80m a year
we just seen what other European football league get paid per year from TV
Dutch Eredivisie €80m
when Dutch can only get €80m for their league football, and Australia look like it will get $80m a year, then i think FFA and the people who work there are doing a far better job then those in Holland or Belgium
Please compare leagues. That figure isn't exclusively for A-League. Quote:The deal, which includes A-league matches, Socceroo games and the Asian Cup tournament, is in its third year.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/broadcast/tv-rights-aleague-takes-shot-at-tv-windfall/news-story/a528f7233ce49528954cd3ff8f4ab53fSo the Socceroos are a big part of that money. Edited by scott21: 13/3/2016 07:51:54 AM sure...but that not the point.....the point is, 10 team A-League that start 11 years ago, shouldn't be even close to Dutch with 2 leagues , a 18 teams Eredivisie, and with Football being by far the number 1 sports in Holland when the A-league teams start getting the same money from TV each years as the average Eredivisie team, this should make some people sit back and think about how good the A-league-FFA is doing 18/80 = €4.44m a year ..Edited by adrtho: 13/3/2016 08:33:14 AM And yet Ajax income exceed $150Mil and PSV around the $100 Million.
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