Elite kids - not so easy


Elite kids - not so easy

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Zoltan
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People get offended with straight talk. The ffv cal it a ‘talent identification program’ for elite kids. Plus life is about moments. Just because a child is talented now doesn’t mean he will be talented tomorrow that’s a given.

This is not about my kid it’s about whether the current systems promote excellence.

At the end of the day it’s just soccer.


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LFC. - 24 Oct 2017 12:06 PM
Very good points JDB03....that saying the cream rise's to the top has its merit but let me expand a little on your last sentence which is so important and a very good one.
Important that a coach likes/suits the style/morals/values of the young up and comer - mine has just gone through 2 wasted seasons with a coach who's style of play doesn't suit his game therefore that precious time is lost never to be gained back. (we should have changed after the 1st season but its not as easy as said, your thinking give it one more go or not ??, trails are here there and everywhere and similar times as mentioned, such a melting pot).
Were past it (YL) being mine is about to start his 2nd season in 18's but I'm saying this for Zoltan being his boy is younger - time pass's too fast, if things are not looking in the right direction get onto it, question, make move sooner rather than later for you can't afford losing a season on development.

I can agree with what your saying because of the lack of quality coaches out there that play a style that only has one main focus....winning. But.
The right coach will suit every kids playing style. The right coach will encourage every kid to express their strengths and improve there weaknesse.
It's not easy as the boys get older.  
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Hume City seem to understand the issues and have opened a performance academy that compliments (along side) its NPL teams.

Whatever way you see it hey are 'looking after the better players' by supplementing (for free) their development with more focused, higher level, probably skill based sessions. Bravo Hume city who I reckon realise that Excellence is 'not a given' and that they (we) need to do something extra to improve youth football outcomes at an elite level. And this does not mean they don't care about the wellbeing of individual kids, nor does it mean that parents who aspire to better coaching and systems are Damir Dokic's or Earl Woods's. It just means that people who understand excellence understand that in context its ok the try and be good at stuff. Soccer should always be seen in context and school, being good citizens etc should always come first.

"This is the first step forward to being able to deliver high quality football education to our kids at no cost to them. My background makes me recognise the need for change as we work towards making elite football development free for those good enough.

"If I could get one message across to our parents it’s that we are looking to push the boundaries of player development"

"Think about domains like GPS data, wellness cards, pre/post game nutrition, skill acquisition, warm-up protocols, injury management and recovery, sports psychology, etc. The list goes on".

http://humecityfc.com/2017/09/23/performance-academy-coach-appointed/

Amazing inspiring stuff that should be more the norm (at NPL level) than some kind of anomoly


Edited
7 Years Ago by Zoltan
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Zoltan - 25 Oct 2017 10:14 AM
Hume City seem to understand the issues and have opened a performance academy that compliments (along side) its NPL teams.

Whatever way you see it hey are 'looking after the better players' by supplementing (for free) their development with more focused, higher level, probably skill based sessions. Bravo Hume city who I reckon realise that Excellence is 'not a given' and that they (we) need to do something extra to improve youth football outcomes at an elite level. And this does not mean they don't care about the wellbeing of individual kids, nor does it mean that parents who aspire to better coaching and systems are Damir Dokic's or Earl Woods's. It just means that people who understand excellence understand that in context its ok the try and be good at stuff. Soccer should always be seen in context and school, being good citizens etc should always come first.

"This is the first step forward to being able to deliver high quality football education to our kids at no cost to them. My background makes me recognise the need for change as we work towards making elite football development free for those good enough.

"If I could get one message across to our parents it’s that we are looking to push the boundaries of player development"

"Think about domains like GPS data, wellness cards, pre/post game nutrition, skill acquisition, warm-up protocols, injury management and recovery, sports psychology, etc. The list goes on".

http://humecityfc.com/2017/09/23/performance-academy-coach-appointed/

Amazing inspiring stuff that should be more the norm (at NPL level) than some kind of anomoly


This is great to see from HC. Colin Copper is a quality coach.  

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So jdb03 are you still sure the cream always rises to the top and that if a kid is good enough then they will get recognised? Or like HC model they recognise that talent needs to be actively nurtured and that npl as it currently is fosters mediocrity?

You can’t tell me in one sentence to relax and let nature take its course (and ignore politics) and then in the next congratulation HC for being proactive...

Your default view is very common.
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Zoltan - 25 Oct 2017 3:01 PM
So jdb03 are you still sure the cream always rises to the top and that if a kid is good enough then they will get recognised? Or like HC model they recognise that talent needs to be actively nurtured and that npl as it currently is fosters mediocrity? You can’t tell me in one sentence to relax and let nature take its course (and ignore politics) and then in the next congratulation HC for being proactive...Your default view is very common.

Clearly you have misinterpreted my post completely and for some reason have taken some offence to it and my views. I agree with everything you said I was just trying to help you understand whats (IMO) is the most important thing, and in yours and my control when it comes to a kid trying to reach his dream of playing pro football. Make no mistake I have seen it all over the passed 12 years of my 3 boys playing football in VIC. TBH that's football in this country and I cant see it changing any time soon.
BTW yes I do still believe that the cream does rise to the top the only difference here is there's cream and there's cream. To many time parents think there kid is cream but there not. And again that not directed at you just incase you were wondering.

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That’s cool. Just whenever someone gives administrators some real feedback a fairly quick defensive reply is to suggest that the parent shouldn’t try and live out their dreams in their kid. That stops meaningful dialogue pretty quickly.

The problem we need to recognise is that the npl isn’t really producing any cream. Yes there will always be kids rising to the top of our system. The problem is we are climbing mount Donna buang and we should be aiming for Everest.

So no I don’t think the cream is currently given a chance.
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Zoltan - 25 Oct 2017 7:36 PM
That’s cool. Just whenever someone gives administrators some real feedback a fairly quick defensive reply is to suggest that the parent shouldn’t try and live out their dreams in their kid. That stops meaningful dialogue pretty quickly. The problem we need to recognise is that the npl isn’t really producing any cream. Yes there will always be kids rising to the top of our system. The problem is we are climbing mount Donna buang and we should be aiming for Everest. So no I don’t think the cream is currently given a chance.

I'm no administrator for one. My reply wasn't defensive regardless of how you took it. I never said once that the npl is producing cream and my suggestion for parents not to live through their kids is directed at the delusional ones that put pressure on their kids which will ultimately lead to disappointment. 
Do yourself a favour and read the post before you get upset for no reason. Good luck with your son. 
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I was at Hakoah for a bit last year. The head coach Mark Robertson had his kid at the club until the under 14's then took him to England to try his luck. He signed with Man United and now his at Man City. I think that tells you enough - if you have the chance, take your kid to Europe. 
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Hi football lover. Yep I think that (going overseas) seems to be the consensus. The jury is still out as to whether my son has the drive and talent to take his game far. This year he has shown glimpses and he just needs to work hard and stay positive but I also feel the need to try and help him navigate the next few years so the system doesn’t destroy his motivation.

If in 2 years time he takes up basketball instead it wouldn’t worry me in the least.

I’m also a fan of the road less travelled so 6 months in a European town exploring and having him immerse himself in a soccer culture could be fun...

Let’s see what the soccer gods decide.
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Overseas is not the answer
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krones3 - 26 Oct 2017 9:49 AM
Overseas is not the answer

Just listening to Alan Davidson talk about his son Jason when he was Japan.
It worked for him.

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Zoltan - 25 Oct 2017 10:14 AM
Hume City seem to understand the issues and have opened a performance academy that compliments (along side) its NPL teams.

Whatever way you see it hey are 'looking after the better players' by supplementing (for free) their development with more focused, higher level, probably skill based sessions. Bravo Hume city who I reckon realise that Excellence is 'not a given' and that they (we) need to do something extra to improve youth football outcomes at an elite level. And this does not mean they don't care about the wellbeing of individual kids, nor does it mean that parents who aspire to better coaching and systems are Damir Dokic's or Earl Woods's. It just means that people who understand excellence understand that in context its ok the try and be good at stuff. Soccer should always be seen in context and school, being good citizens etc should always come first.

"This is the first step forward to being able to deliver high quality football education to our kids at no cost to them. My background makes me recognise the need for change as we work towards making elite football development free for those good enough.

"If I could get one message across to our parents it’s that we are looking to push the boundaries of player development"

"Think about domains like GPS data, wellness cards, pre/post game nutrition, skill acquisition, warm-up protocols, injury management and recovery, sports psychology, etc. The list goes on".

http://humecityfc.com/2017/09/23/performance-academy-coach-appointed/

Amazing inspiring stuff that should be more the norm (at NPL level) than some kind of anomoly


"Hume City have retained over 90% of their current NPL Junior rosters but have a few spots available for the right player."

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Looks like Hume City have set a high level for their Youth Development Program.
Great challenge for them every success to them.

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Yep but I don’t think overseas is not the answer. As I recall his kid was miserably.
People can do what they like but being an older parent I can advise you of this.
Your child’s childhood should not be destroyed for the sake of football and you risk your families happiness on the off chance something could come of it.
Just saying and not wanting a fight over it.
It’s up to you
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Why can’t going overseas be an adventure if done properly? Why would going over and having a crack equal destroyed lives?

Plenty more shattered 20 year olds here in Melbourne playing xbox, living at home and doing a meaningless business degree.

Depends how you see risk...
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Like I said up to you
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Zoltan - 26 Oct 2017 10:54 AM
Why can’t going overseas be an adventure if done properly? Why would going over and having a crack equal destroyed lives? Plenty more shattered 20 year olds here in Melbourne playing xbox, living at home and doing a meaningless business degree. Depends how you see risk...

I agree on many things with Krones3 but on this we differ. As he says "Its up to you"

But going overseas is not easy either nor is it always achievable not from a talent perspective but from a life perspective.

I have been fortunate to travel overseas for Football with my kids several times.

I would recommend this for any player who's family can afford it.

Lot's of traps first of which if you've played at and A-League NPL side you could have problems.
Secondly having an EU passport or ethnic heritage in your destination country is important.
In the majority of cases you need to be 18yo to transfer overseas.
You need to be careful of going overseas were no International Transfer Certificate ITC many people and organistations are offering placements at overseas Clubs like Getafe and Hercules in Spain or Chesterfield in England but your not part of the Club only an International Program. And it costs.
Some Football tours you go to training programs and you might go to AJAX but you not actually training with AJAX Academy Coaches.
Theses groups hire the facility and hire some ex-AJAX players or Coaches and off you go.
So you end up in the Marketing Department not the Football Department.
Tournaments are good to go to, no bullshit there you might play a Real Madrid youth team, this has happened.

Any way if anyone interested can PM me for more details



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I don't think there is a right or wrong answer when considering a move OS.
At what age?
Is the kid ready mentally?
Can the parents afford it?
Which club?
What does the kid need to improve on and does the program here not provide it?
Is the kid good enough to start with?
Im all for it if you can tick the boxes, if not don't go.
I had the opportunity to take one of my sons OS two years ago and decided not to as we though he wasn't ready mentally. Like I said its an individual choice that only the family can make. Sometimes you might get it wrong but that the risk you take. 

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Zoltan - 15 Oct 2017 11:38 AM
I would almost say that that one almost needs to be an outlier (and avoid the system) in order to help your kid reach any sort of potential. I'm not sure how much you know about soccer at junior levels in VIC but the best outcomes are not coming from NPL clubs or the FFV systems but through outlying 'academies' - like Glen eira soccer club, Heart wings world and some clubs in geelong - who are not only producing more technical kids but kids who look happier and kids who are ultimately making the state teams and getting picked for Melbourne Victory and melbourne City academies.


Under 11s...Geelong...I can safely guess which side you're referring to. :) and that team is a very well coached side. Some of those kids are already "doctors" on the ball


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Agree. So the ffv, npl administrators and coaches need to explain why an under 11 side in Geelong is full of doctors and our teams aren’t. Or at least recognise and acknowledge openly that we have a low bar. Our kids are just as good at years 8 & 9 but the gap will widen.

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krones3 - 26 Oct 2017 10:18 AM
Yep but I don’t think overseas is not the answer. As I recall his kid was miserably.People can do what they like but being an older parent I can advise you of this. Your child’s childhood should not be destroyed for the sake of football and you risk your families happiness on the off chance something could come of it.Just saying and not wanting a fight over it.It’s up to you

You don't have to ruin the kids life or your families life to move to Europe. The family has to be organised and get jobs like everyone else. The European lifestyle is great.
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Zoltan - 26 Oct 2017 3:03 PM
Agree. So the ffv, npl administrators and coaches need to explain why an under 11 side in Geelong is full of doctors and our teams aren’t. Or at least recognise and acknowledge openly that we have a low bar. Our kids are just as good at years 8 & 9 but the gap will widen.

Because there's to many npl clubs to start with. The rest is not rocket science. 
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John Doe - 17 Oct 2017 3:19 PM
Whats the point?

Peddling a dream that just isn’t there.

Hypotheses – Australia’s soccer Industry of which can claim an incredibly impressive 1.1 million participants, has no pathway to professional success.

By professional success – I mean not just playing pro soccer but having a successful career where you earn say more that 250k per year for 7-10 years.

Any child wanting to be a successful professional soccer player in Australia (make a decent living and have a good career) might as well give up and go surfing because the chances are about the same as winning the lottery. Your child has more chance to be prime minister, 5,000 times more chance to be a doctor and a 50 times more chance to be an Olympian in another sport.

Lets see why.

The pathway to professional play in Australia is currently via the A-league clubs. We have 10 A-league clubs with squads of 26.

That’s 260 professional players in Australia. Compare this to AFL who have 18 teams x 38 platers = 684 professional players. Almost 3 x s many.

Every year maybe 2 youth players break through to be regulars in an A-league team. Then the likelihood is only one of them will go onto make a great career.

So the reality is if your kid makes an a-league academy as a 13-17 year old (an amazing achievement) their chances of making it as a successful professional is still about 100-1. Don’t sell the house just yet!!

The A-league clubs are made up of Internationals, stalwart ex socceroos and Australian Journeyman players lucky to be earning 100-150k per year. The Journeyman spend 2-3 years on a A-League roster (something to tell the grandkids) and go back to NPL teams earning 20k per year and working out what to do with the rest of their lives.

To eck out a decent living in the A-league you would need to have at have at some stage player for a Socceroo squad at some level and even then there is no guarantee.

So the only real option is to try your chances overseas as a youngster. This takes incredible will power and belief and a large portion of reckless stupidity to take this risk with your family. But you know what – its more risky to hang around and try and play the NPL political game, then navigate what must be a nightmare of politics and intrigue to get on an a-league list only to be still a marathon away from real success…


A gem amongst a sea of waffle.

Elite kids, yup, despite what some parents may think, they're fecking everywhere i.e. a dime a dozen.

A real shame that many parents don't possess similar enthusiasm towards academic achievement. 
Edited
7 Years Ago by Judy Free
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JDB03 - 26 Oct 2017 1:26 PM
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer when considering a move OS.
At what age?
Is the kid ready mentally?
Can the parents afford it?
Which club?
What does the kid need to improve on and does the program here not provide it?
Is the kid good enough to start with?
Im all for it if you can tick the boxes, if not don't go.
I had the opportunity to take one of my sons OS two years ago and decided not to as we though he wasn't ready mentally. Like I said its an individual choice that only the family can make. Sometimes you might get it wrong but that the risk you take. 

In most cases, no.

Expensive lesson, especially for the kids who trash all chance of an education during the process.





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Too many npl clubs is part of the problem in terms of watering down the quality of the npl league. But it doesn’t mean npl clubs can’t do things much better. Hume is listening! The academy teams might get the better kids it’s because they are providing a better product. Go and watch a training or read a website / watch a YouTube clip for one of them. Hume is listening.

I reckon all NPL clubs can take something from that.
Edited
7 Years Ago by Zoltan
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Zoltan - 27 Oct 2017 6:54 AM
Too many npl clubs is part of the problem in terms of watering down the quality of the npl league. But it doesn’t mean npl clubs can’t do things much better. Hume is listening! The academy teams might get the better kids it’s because they are providing a better product. Go and watch a training or read a website / watch a YouTube clip for one of them. Hume is listening.

I reckon all NPL clubs can take something from that.

Agree. MC youth system is miles ahead of most npl clubs and it's only getting better. If hume can replicate it to some extent they'll do well. 
Zoltan
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I see on the ffv website they are reviewing the entire junior system in a very inclusive way. Great initiative and hopefully everyone who has something to say does so.

The bottom line is that their will be no perfect system and strong leadership with a clear vision will be what gets results.

Soccer should be a game that caters for all ability levels. kindness, fun, fairness and at the highest level excellence should be embedded in systems, processes and people.

Starts at the top!

Good luck
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from wikipedia

a reminder of why NPL is here

qte
in October 2010, Football Federation Australia (FFA) commenced a National Competition Review, its main objective being to review the current structure of football competitions in Australia, and to monitor and improve elite player development.[2] By May 2012 the results of the National Competition Review were released. In it, a proposal to re-brand and revitalise state-based competitions in Australia.
qte


LFC.
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Being this thread is on Youth can I ask a question from a relo asking me about sending his 11yr old to a Academy such Milan here in Syd at this stage.
The Dad is very grounded and points out that he's not sure what to do but that the boy is goading him over development.
To date playing Div 1 club, you could say he's one of the taller lads so he stands out at this age and quite mobile.
I told him he should have tried out in SAP but he's missed the boat so the Dads train of thought is go to Milan so the kid gets a year of development/fitness and trial for SAP following season.
Any comments would be appreciated.



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