All good. I've the utmost respect for your views and the reasonable way in which you explain your points.

And I despise Wahhabism and the conservative types there and I accept the notion that there are positive and negative trends within Islamic societies (as within all societies). I'm just pointing out that it's a broad church, so to speak, and there are Muslims of all shades, plenty of whom oppose extremism as much as any other liberal. For that reason, I try to steer clear of agreeing to broad statements about Muslims. That's just my  view. And I daresay you would agree with me that morality of a person's actions can't be defined by their faith, their nationality or whatever.

As regards the communism part... I understand how aspects of it are appealing. And maybe some of those aspects have improved Western societies in general by creating more of a welfare state in which a person's opportunities in life are less dictated by personal circumstances. I find it staggering how people  believed in something so steeped in fallacious understandings of economics and human psychology. And it's saddening that so many could believe so ardently in something which was based on envy, hatred, desire for retribution and with no regard whatsoever for constitutional and legal mechanisms to protect the individual's rights.

Does he f*#k?

I don't speak Russian. Reading the translations provided (and assuming they're fair), he just flatly denies whatever he's accused of. He then leans on plausible deniability by suggesting a whole host of other potential culprits. And he often moves on to describing the victim. But you know- this guy was not such a nice guy, he did this and that, then was found guilty of embezzlement.

He could be a villain in a Shakespeare play.

People in the soviet controlled states knew it was bullshit, believe me. The western reds won't ever listen, but if you speak to people who lived under the system it's unnerving how heavy handed it was. Even if you opposed it you didn't say so and were scared to be thinking it. If I were to relate the experiences of my family under communism, here's some examples. One of my uncles was working in a factory producing toxic chemicals. Wakes up in the morning, has to report to a soldier who is the resident spy (every neighbourhood had one, friend v friend it didn't matter). Shows his ID, is asked where he's going. Same answer each day, going to work. Asked what his job is, when is he coming home, answers checked for inconsistencies with previous answers kept in his personal manifest, interrogated if need be. Does a shift working with chemicals, not allowed to know what they are and what they're used for. Goes home with his body glowing blue. If he goes to the shops - everything western banned. Want a Beatles album? Black market item sold in the basement of one club in Prague, one album the price of one month's wages. Kids go to school every day. Teachers, like other public officials, aren't Mr or Mrs. They must be addressed as Comrade. If you want to socialise in public squares you are routinely stopped by pigs who ask for your ID, what you are talking about. Having a kid? Once you choose the name you apply for permission. If an official doesn't approve of the name you can either choose a different name or not get a birth certificate. Don't like it? Go on holiday. You're approved to go anywhere you want, as long as it's a soviet state (militarised borders every other direction). Go to Yugoslavia, hop on a boat and GTFO. Some of the people who did that went on to become Port Melbourne Slavia - the second team to win a national football trophy in Australia. Football Farkn Kultcha.

And when you've been through all that shit, you send your kids to school in the new country and half the hobo lecturers are fucking Maoists who have more food sitting in their stomachs than the Chinese will see in a week.

bohemia

Woww. It's frightening. Thanks for sharing your family's experiences. I recently read an excellent book by Douglas Smith; Former People: The Final Days of the Russian Aristocracy. It's too awful to believe. Lenin just exploited the working classes' and peasantry's hatred of land-owners to encourage the most evil acts imaginable. Not unlike how Putin taps into his compatriots' pride and desire for Russia as a superpower to be reckoned with. The actions of the Cheka are too horrific even to think about.

Your family's experiences echo some of the stuff I read. The Bolsheviks and then the Soviet Union channeled people's hatred to turn them against each and to spy on one another and dob each other in. When there wasn't somebody to blame, whole new classes of enemies needed to be devised (or talking up old enemies). And anybody who had the misfortune of not having an awful life before the revolution or successful peasants (kulaks) was branded a class enemy and society had the job of smoking them out. Then they might be taken to a forest and summarily executed. Or perhaps sent off to the Gulags.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/13/russian-exile-nikolai-glushkov-found-dead-at-his-london-home

Nikolai Glushkov, another Russian émigré found dead in London in suspicious circumstances. This bloke was a major enemy of Vladimir Putin,  friend of Boris Berezovsky (who was also found dead) and had testified in court against Putin's mate Roman Abrahomovich.

Maybe Theresa May will actually stop the FA from sending the England team just in protest.

If that happened, I wonder if our government would follow suit. Julie Bishop has been taking a very firm line and will always back up the British.

It's terrible reading but necessary. The scale of atrocities were enormous. It was an ideological war. It wasn't communism v capitalism as the western commies like to depict it. It was an ideological war against any organised structure that would threaten to replace the state as a power of influence. Academics, elites, murdered in their millions. If we look to Hitler's murder of jews as a benchmark - 6 million murdered - it's dwarfed by the 20 million Christians Stalin murdered. Over 50,000 priests, and additionally their families, were summarily executed. It happened over decades, and fluctuated. If the church could be used it suddenly had a decade of respite, then suddenly they're out of vogue and back to being killed. 

Food for thought for the internet regressives who depict the white christian as the archtype oppressor in the world.

nah, football especially the world cup means far too much to your average englishman for that to ever happen, pint at your local and football on the tele is the red line, take that away and you'll have open rebellion

So let me ask you an honest question. With no evidence what so ever linking Putin to this death, would it be right to accuse Putin ( anyone connected to him ) of this murder and refuse to believe anyone else can be a suspect?
And then do we boycott the would cup using this as one of many reasons why. 

FFS, I don't support a boycott, has nothing to do with sport and Australia.

 Thankyou. 

The guy was a double agent (or been report as such), was/is he not? If yes, he knew the risks.
No one will boycott the World Cup, what is they to gain?  Maybe some sort of "moral victory", maybe?

only if Russia gassed 20 Aussies on Aussie soil ?

This is the sort of comment that has me seriously concerned about our future as a democratic society. 

At least we can criticise our politicians. 

 There's nothing to worry about, we'll always have flops running this country if that's your wish. 

What about the local policeman who discovered him on the park bench, who is now in hospital with poisoning from the nerve agent? Did he know the risks? 

I don't think a boycott is a good idea though. It just plays into Russia's hands.

I'd rather have the flops we have now than an authoritarian dictator that murders journalists, jails opposing politicians, de-criminalises domestic violence and essentially outlaws being gay.

Perhaps you should go live in Russia if you can't appreciate how much better it is here. 

 If I could I would but it's too late and near impossible. You can't just pick which country to live in and get accepted just like that. 
I'm here to stay. Don't get all worked up because I don't rate either of our parties it's not the country I don't like it's our leaders.
I wouldn't mind if many of our journos got killed for shit stirring anyways. You either kill scum or throw the scum in jail and that's all Putin's done. 

Found the fascist!

I'm truly lost for words. 

Fair point with regards to the innocent locals who have been caught up in it. That said, unfortunately their/our lifes aren't worth much and just gets a little footnote as collateral damage or the like.

Read the page before for more of the same.

Straya, where it's legal to call our leader a c:)nt

I'm just curious about one thing. Do you put America in the same category as Australia in regards to being free to do what you want or do you atleast accept that even in America many people have been murdered by their own government, just like has been done in Russia and many other countries. 
Do you not place their leaders in the same category?
Julian Assange has basically locked himself up in the Ecuador embassy for so many years now because he fears for his life too.
My basic question is do you accept that there's evil going on with all these leaders of the world, or is it simply just Putin and all the others western media always bang on about?

 Just don't say it to the cops lol

* FFA my bad lol

You're moving around so damn much I can't keep up with you. I'll try to keep it simple.

All governments are capable of unspeakable acts. Governments are made up of people. People are people: some are good, some bad and most of us somewhere in between.

Many people will do unspeakable things to protect their interests. My point is when you restrict press freedom and the democratic voting process you allow certain people to commit acts with impunity. Thats what sets Putin apart from democratically elected leaders in countries with press freedoms. 

Okay but overall you agree that boycotting the world cup in Russia is a stupid idea right?

Yes. I said that already.

Never heard something so stupid. Whinging poms.

Ohh, is that what this discussion is about?? 😉