Bias against South Melbourne is all Greek to me, says McNamee


Bias against South Melbourne is all Greek to me, says McNamee

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chris
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Tennis great turned sports administrator Paul McNamee - the man who rejected the FFA CEO role 12 years ago - has made an impassioned plea for South Melbourne to be granted an A-League license.

The former Australian Open and Golf Australia chief was part of the South Melbourne-backed Southern Cross bid team of 2008, which was “shut down” in favour of Melbourne Heart for an expansion spot.McNamee is convinced FFA “bias” against South’s Greek origins stood against them a decade ago in a glaring example of ‘new football’ putting the boot into ‘old soccer’.

And while not officially involved in South’s latest attempt to get back into the main stream, McNamee - a die-hard Melbourne Victory and Liverpool fan - believes they will bring “soul and passion” to the competition, as well as providing a talent pathway which to date has produced 53 Socceroos.“In my view it’s time to recalibrate because the A-League has serious issues and there are many people from the old NSL days who simply don’t follow the competition,” said McNamee ahead of the FFA board meeting on Wednesday which could admit up to two new teams for next season.

“I follow Melbourne Victory but you can’t compare their program to that of South Melbourne for boys and girls.“I’ve been to the academies at Tottenham, Celtic and Borussia Monchengladbach and South. In terms of what they’re doing at youth level, they are the Australian equivalent.

“Most of the A-League teams are more franchises and brands than they are clubs in the traditional sense.“They lack soul and that’s something South - with their great history in the NSL - have in abundance.“People talk about history being a negative to South Melbourne. In my opinion, it’s quite the opposite. To say it’s a negative has connotations of racism about it.“The most important thing though is not their past, it’s their future as a bona fide development pathway which no other A-League club offers.”

South are up against Team 11 and Western Melbourne in Victoria, two bids which require transport and stadium infrastructure , as well as Southern Expansion, Macarthur South West Sydney and Canberra.“How the heck can South Melbourne not stack up against the other bids,” added McNamee.“The funding is there, the ground is there, the development pathways are there. Seriously, what is all this about. Am I missing something here?“When is football going to embrace is history? This ‘old soccer, new football’ concept should’ve got thrown out years ago.

“It’s a bad thing and I believe that’s why Southern Cross got shut down. Without any discussion the spot is simply went to Melbourne Heart.“That was a decision based on bias, in my opinion, and it shocked me. It was about their ethnicity.“Is my Irish background a problem for somebody? Liverpool have Irish Catholic fans, is that a problem?

“I’m troubled by some of criticism of South ... we almost apologized by calling it Southern Cross last time because of the prevailing mood (at FFA).“Now it’s unashamedly South Melbourne.

Now tell them they’re ethnic and don’t belong. This is Australia in 2018. Are you kidding me?”

Ben Buckley subsequently took the job which McNamee, now 64 and currently involved with Basketball Australia, turned down back in 2006, and he has no regrets.“My son (Rowan) loves and plays and I thought bringing the job home with me every night might destroy his affection for the game,” he said.“So I slept on the offer and said ‘no thanks’. In some ways it was the job I always wanted, but looking back Ben Buckley basically spent five years chasing votes for the World Cup and we all know what happened there. I’m so happy that that wasn’t me.”

McNamee believes promotion and relegation will come within five years to the A-League, in the ultimate act of inclusivity.“We have clubs like South Melbourne who will win their way through and that dispels the theory that we must only have new clubs,” he added.“It’s going to happen anyway so get a decent club like South Melbourne should be admitted in now.“They have passion, it’s the tonic of life. It produces crowds and crowds produce ratings, I know that from tennis.“We have to be inclusive because the FFA have divided the sport since the A-League’s inception.“South Melbourne fans haven’t felt welcome. This is a subject I feel passionately about because I love football.

“People might say, ‘what do you know about the game?“But I knew enough for FFA to want to hire me as CEO. I know a little bit.”

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/bias-against-south-melbourne-is-all-greek-to-me-says-mcnamee

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Great article

McNamee is valued in this country as one of the most successful sports executives in this country.

McNamee was the chairman of the Southern Cross bid when the FFA chose Heart

I had spoken to the guy at a junior game against Malvern City about a year after the Southern Cross bid

Basically told me as soon as we were ready to submit the final version of the bid the FFA, the FFA announced exclusive negotiation with Melbourne Heart whilst the bid process was still going



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Well, if anyone would know what's best for football in this country, it's a tennis guy.
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100% football person, takes in 100+ games every year from Victory down to the provisional leagues.
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"McNamee believes promotion and relegation will come within five years to the A-League"

nup, he's clueless
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In many ways it’s likely going to depend on next weeks decision, if the bids that are offering astronomical amounts for the license fees get in (likely) then you have a permanent closed shop as conditions will certainly be in place to ensure they are forever in the top division.

If South gets in (unlikely) its game on. It would be such a shock decision the football community will start to believe that anything is possible, the fact we have endorsed a 2nd division and pro/relegation is probably going to work against us.

I sympathise with Paul because he was part of the bid a decade ago that wasn’t even allowed to use South Melbourne as a name and he knows first hand the injustice of how that license was awarded. No real process took place, they just handed the license to the heart consortium purely cos the other option was South.

Ange is in town and he is trying to work them over but it’s too late, even if they went with 4 teams we still wouldn’t make it,
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chris - 8 Dec 2018 9:39 PM

South are up against Team 11 and Western Melbourne in Victoria, two bids which require transport and stadium infrastructure , as well as Southern Expansion, Macarthur South West Sydney and Canberra.“How the heck can South Melbourne not stack up against the other bids,” added McNamee.“The funding is there, the ground is there, the development pathways are there. Seriously, what is all this about. Am I missing something here?“When is football going to embrace is history? This ‘old soccer, new football’ concept should’ve got thrown out years ago.

“It’s a bad thing and I believe that’s why Southern Cross got shut down. Without any discussion the spot is simply went to Melbourne Heart.“That was a decision based on bias, in my opinion, and it shocked me. It was about their ethnicity.“Is my Irish background a problem for somebody? Liverpool have Irish Catholic fans, is that a problem?

Now tell them they’re ethnic and don’t belong. This is Australia in 2018. Are you kidding me?”

It seriously shits me that people are still pretending that these clubs are being rejected because of some ethic bias. The problem is that these clubs are or were biased towards a specific community themselves.

The concern about SM and equivalent clubs is that they do have a history of being mono-ethnic. If they can prove they have a diversity of ethnicities and backgrounds among their playing coaching & admin staff, I imagine the FFA wouldn't have a problem with them. I'm sure as hell happy we went with WSW instead of say Sydney united or Olympic during the last round of expansion. They're an actually multi-cultural club that noone could say is particularly anglo.

It would take an immense amount of work to destroy the idea that united or olympic are just croatian or greek backed clubs that are purely for the Croatian-Australian and Greek-Australian communities. WSW on the other hand are a genuinely multi-ethic club, they have fantastic support with grounds full of people from diverse backgrounds. I see no problem with the FFA aiming for that standard, instead of letting in clubs with a clear history of bias.

We want diverse clubs that reflect the cultural makeup of the areas they represent, there is nothing wrong with that.
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6 Years Ago by HighTimes
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Why can’t we welcome all clubs? Why should I be punished cos a bunch of Greek immigrants created my club 60 years ago? It’s bullshit, hell I don’t even like Greeks.

It’s like saying we should only have restaurants that serve every cuisine on earth, that would get pretty boring.

The issue isn’t that west Sydney Wanderers were chosen, the issue is Olympic and syd United should be afforded the opportunity to someday be able to compete at the same level.
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HighTimes - 8 Dec 2018 11:49 PM
chris - 8 Dec 2018 9:39 PM

It seriously shits me that people are still pretending that these clubs are being rejected because of some ethic bias. The problem is that these clubs are or were biased towards a specific community themselves.

The concern about SM and equivalent clubs is that they do have a history of being mono-ethnic. If they can prove they have a diversity of ethnicities and backgrounds among their playing coaching & admin staff, I imagine the FFA wouldn't have a problem with them. I'm sure as hell happy we went with WSW instead of say Sydney united or Olympic during the last round of expansion. They're an actually multi-cultural club that noone could say is particularly anglo.

It would take an immense amount of work to destroy the idea that united or olympic are just croatian or greek backed clubs that are purely for the Croatian-Australian and Greek-Australian communities. WSW on the other hand are a genuinely multi-ethic club, they have fantastic support with grounds full of people from diverse backgrounds. I see no problem with the FFA aiming for that standard, instead of letting in clubs with a clear history of bias.

We want diverse clubs that reflect the cultural makeup of the areas they represent, there is nothing wrong with that.

I totally agree with you that a club that represents a population based on where you live will get bigger crowds than a club representing one community. 
However if a Greek club, in this case South Melbourne has one of the best set ups already, then why the fuck should they now be allowed to one day play in the top division?
Don't you realise that although South Melbourne has a Greek background, they have a diversified management team, along with players throughout the whole club? Who cares what the background of the club is when they are doing a Greek job at giving Australians of all different backgrounds a chance to play professional football. 
Also even if they only average 4k fans and financially that's enough for them how on earth is that a problem?
It's the equivalent of saying we shouldn't have any Greek restaurants in Australia because they are neglecting the foods from all other backgrounds, it should be a multi cultural restuaraunt ect ect. 
My only concern with South Melbourne entering the league is the fact I can't stand any stadium that's oval shaped and even worse when they have a running track around it. Other than that they tick most boxes of what's needed to be in the A-league regardless of what background. 
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Interesting stat with 53 Socceroos over the years.

Guess that isn’t Australian enough...
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Burztur - 9 Dec 2018 11:25 AM
Interesting stat with 53 Socceroos over the years.Guess that isn’t Australian enough...

South already command inner south/east and east corridors up to Springvale Road which is a 20 KMs arc from the city of territory is the key demographic.

The 47 clubs anf schools South mantion are largely within this range and represent a population of 1.2 million and a clear accessible catchment and the best part is victory and city have a light footprint.

Team 11 should have the outer growth regions based on the fact that their stadium location if it ever gets up is about 35 KMs with a population of 1.4 and growing and represents a corridor band of the outer regions that are 25 to 50 KMs from inner Melbourne

Why would a football fan located 10kms from Lakeside travel to the far East when located in the inner east and a short drive or tram, bus or train ride to lakeside

Additionally their is a massive demographic gap between someone who lives in a Caulfield, Bentleigh, Carnegie, Oakleigh or Glen Waverley for example which has a massive smfc connection compared to someone that lives in Knox or Dandenong or Cranbourne and even the inner Gippsland regions

A corridor of of 2.5 million projected to reach 3,5 does not equate to equal access by location or equal appeal by demographic to a ground in Dandenong

Apologies for making too much sense and I am sure south have already submitted this to the FFA
I just whish they were more transparent about it commercially

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robstazzz - 9 Dec 2018 11:14 AM
HighTimes - 8 Dec 2018 11:49 PM

I totally agree with you that a club that represents a population based on where you live will get bigger crowds than a club representing one community. 
However if a Greek club, in this case South Melbourne has one of the best set ups already, then why the fuck should they now be allowed to one day play in the top division?
Don't you realise that although South Melbourne has a Greek background, they have a diversified management team, along with players throughout the whole club? Who cares what the background of the club is when they are doing a Greek job at giving Australians of all different backgrounds a chance to play professional football. 
Also even if they only average 4k fans and financially that's enough for them how on earth is that a problem?
It's the equivalent of saying we shouldn't have any Greek restaurants in Australia because they are neglecting the foods from all other backgrounds, it should be a multi cultural restuaraunt ect ect. 
My only concern with South Melbourne entering the league is the fact I can't stand any stadium that's oval shaped and even worse when they have a running track around it. Other than that they tick most boxes of what's needed to be in the A-league regardless of what background. 
If SM Hellas have the best set up why don't they win the league every year?

I cite the example of Brisbane Lions Soccer Club winning the right for a franchise that had by far the best footballing set up in Queensland and by far the richest (current social club turnover I understand in the vicinity of $50 mill). Yet they still couldn't manage.

Conversely why should anyone be happy with an entity that to date has only demonstrated it caters for a very limited and insular supporter base? If we're not happy now with clubs getting 8,000 - 17,000 attendances why should we be with 4,000?





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HighTimes - 8 Dec 2018 11:49 PM
chris - 8 Dec 2018 9:39 PM

It seriously shits me that people are still pretending that these clubs are being rejected because of some ethic bias. The problem is that these clubs are or were biased towards a specific community themselves.

The concern about SM and equivalent clubs is that they do have a history of being mono-ethnic. If they can prove they have a diversity of ethnicities and backgrounds among their playing coaching & admin staff, I imagine the FFA wouldn't have a problem with them. I'm sure as hell happy we went with WSW instead of say Sydney united or Olympic during the last round of expansion. They're an actually multi-cultural club that noone could say is particularly anglo.

It would take an immense amount of work to destroy the idea that united or olympic are just croatian or greek backed clubs that are purely for the Croatian-Australian and Greek-Australian communities. WSW on the other hand are a genuinely multi-ethic club, they have fantastic support with grounds full of people from diverse backgrounds. I see no problem with the FFA aiming for that standard, instead of letting in clubs with a clear history of bias.

We want diverse clubs that reflect the cultural makeup of the areas they represent, there is nothing wrong with that.

Spot on HighTimes.

We certainly don't want the start of the thin wedge with a replication of the NSL when the entire league was represented by only 3 different ethnic cultures.....Greeks, Italians and Croatians.



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libel - 8 Dec 2018 9:56 PM
Well, if anyone would know what's best for football in this country, it's a tennis guy.

He would have been rewarded handsomely for his timely public interjection in the way only SM Hellas know how.

This is their way to demonstrate they are now (all of the sudden) mainstream lol


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Edited
6 Years Ago by paulc
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Not even 1 page and Pauly has hijacked the thread. Scenes. 
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Yes because it was different before.

You must have the paulc metre on and 1 only page lol



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paulc - 9 Dec 2018 3:51 PM
robstazzz - 9 Dec 2018 11:14 AM
If SM Hellas have the best set up why don't they win the league every year?

I cite the example of Brisbane Lions Soccer Club winning the right for a franchise that had by far the best footballing set up in Queensland and by far the richest (current social club turnover I understand in the vicinity of $50 mill). Yet they still couldn't manage.

Conversely why should anyone be happy with an entity that to date has only demonstrated it caters for a very limited and insular supporter base? If we're not happy now with clubs getting 8,000 - 17,000 attendances why should we be with 4,000?




I said they have one of the best ( not the best ) set ups as a whole, not they have the best starting 11 to win the league every season. 
When you say we're not happy with 17k you're speaking about yourself and many others, I don't share that opinion. My biggest concern is clubs playing in stadiums where even a 15k turnout means there was over 35k empty seats. If as South have claimed they only need 1,500 to break even and they average 4k meaning they're making profits and playing out of a 12k stadium than I have no problem. 
Having said all this as I mentioned before my main concern with South Melbourne is their shit stadium with a running track around it, basically I'm saying I don't give a shit what background the club is or represents, especially when in the end the club is doing Australian footballers a huge favour just being around. Can't say the same about a club from another country playing in this league.
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robstazzz - 9 Dec 2018 4:21 PM
paulc - 9 Dec 2018 3:51 PM

I said they have one of the best ( not the best ) set ups as a whole, not they have the best starting 11 to win the league every season. 
When you say we're not happy with 17k you're speaking about yourself and many others, I don't share that opinion. My biggest concern is clubs playing in stadiums where even a 15k turnout means there was over 35k empty seats. If as South have claimed they only need 1,500 to break even and they average 4k meaning they're making profits and playing out of a 12k stadium than I have no problem. 
Having said all this as I mentioned before my main concern with South Melbourne is their shit stadium with a running track around it, basically I'm saying I don't give a shit what background the club is or represents, especially when in the end the club is doing Australian footballers a huge favour just being around. Can't say the same about a club from another country playing in this league.

Being one of the best set ups is no ticket for entry as history has proven with Brisbane Lions is what I'm saying. Even with 8,000 attendances the HAL clubs have been bagged but it's OK with 4,000 is it? SM Hellas have done nothing to demonstrate they have turned the corner with their inward looking.


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paulc - 9 Dec 2018 4:27 PM
robstazzz - 9 Dec 2018 4:21 PM

Being one of the best set ups is no ticket for entry as history has proven with Brisbane Lions is what I'm saying. Even with 8,000 attendances the HAL clubs have been bagged but it's OK with 4,000 is it? SM Hellas have done nothing to demonstrate they have turned the corner with their inward looking.

I just told you I'm not one who bags out the crowds. It's the choice of stadiums I have a problem with. 
If everything was based on crowds you wouldn't have clubs like Bournmouth playing in the EPL. And there are many other examples all over Europe of clubs getting crowds of only 5k in the top division.
Like I said earlier, personally I wouldn't give South Melbourne a lisence based on their stadium being an oval. My rejection of them would have nothing to do with South Melbourne being owned by Australians of Greek background.


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chris - 9 Dec 2018 3:37 PM
Burztur - 9 Dec 2018 11:25 AM

South already command inner south/east and east corridors up to Springvale Road which is a 20 KMs arc from the city of territory is the key demographic.

The 47 clubs anf schools South mantion are largely within this range and represent a population of 1.2 million and a clear accessible catchment and the best part is victory and city have a light footprint.

Team 11 should have the outer growth regions based on the fact that their stadium location if it ever gets up is about 35 KMs with a population of 1.4 and growing and represents a corridor band of the outer regions that are 25 to 50 KMs from inner Melbourne

Why would a football fan located 10kms from Lakeside travel to the far East when located in the inner east and a short drive or tram, bus or train ride to lakeside

Additionally their is a massive demographic gap between someone who lives in a Caulfield, Bentleigh, Carnegie, Oakleigh or Glen Waverley for example which has a massive smfc connection compared to someone that lives in Knox or Dandenong or Cranbourne and even the inner Gippsland regions

A corridor of of 2.5 million projected to reach 3,5 does not equate to equal access by location or equal appeal by demographic to a ground in Dandenong

Apologies for making too much sense and I am sure south have already submitted this to the FFA
I just whish they were more transparent about it commercially

Correct Chris, anyone living within 10 to 15km of Lakeside Stadium is not going to travel out to Dandenong.  No one's heading out to Dandenong to watch anything.

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Paul McNamee makes good sense
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robstazzz - 9 Dec 2018 4:57 PM
paulc - 9 Dec 2018 4:27 PM

I just told you I'm not one who bags out the crowds. It's the choice of stadiums I have a problem with. 
If everything was based on crowds you wouldn't have clubs like Bournmouth playing in the EPL. And there are many other examples all over Europe of clubs getting crowds of only 5k in the top division.
Like I said earlier, personally I wouldn't give South Melbourne a lisence based on their stadium being an oval. My rejection of them would have nothing to do with South Melbourne being owned by Australians of Greek background.

You said a 4,000 crowd wouldn't be a problem. I say bullocks.

Let's just agree may the best win. It's out of our hands anyway.


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Gallop and O'Rourke should hang their heads in shame if what I'm hearing is correct about how they've handled certain bids documents and what info they've passed on and left out to FFA board members. The whole process is corrupt, tainted and farcical. The sooner morons like that are run out of the game the better. You're surname and background shouldn't matter in 2018 Australia.

McNamee is a genuine lover of the game. Seen him heaps of times around the local games as a simple fan. Played Tennis at the highest level and has been involved with various other sports as an administrator. His comments should carry some credibility.




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paulc - 9 Dec 2018 5:03 PM
robstazzz - 9 Dec 2018 4:57 PM
You said a 4,000 crowd wouldn't be a problem. I say bullocks.

Let's just agree may the best win. It's out of our hands anyway.

If Team 11 are playing out of Casey Fields for 3 seasons, you'd be rapt to get 4,000 to a game.

southmelb
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The capacity of Casey fields will only be 4-5k as they will need to move the pitch to one of the closer terraces as the ground has very little elevation.

Paul McNamee does talk sense but he is also very bitter being part of the bidding process for the last Melbourne license and seeing how it was awarded in a dubious manner. For him Souths exclusion last time would be very personal.
Edited
6 Years Ago by southmelb
chris
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southmelb - 9 Dec 2018 6:04 PM
The capacity of Casey fields will only be 4-5k as they will need to move the pitch to one of the closer terraces as the ground has very little elevation.

Paul McNamee does talk sense but he is also very bitter being part of the bidding process for the last Melbourne license and seeing how it was awarded in a dubious manner. For him Souths exclusion last time would be very personal.

I don't think it be personal as he never got a chance to engage
As soon as the FFA saw McNamees name on the southern X bid they jumped into bed with Lowys mate Sidwell and handed southern cross intelligence to him
McNamee was brought on to provide analysis on why South from a high level but never happened 
I believe bidding process still had 5 months to run
Whole thing was an absolute discrace including the product that was Heart....a joke 
South will resonate much more deeply with football vommunity, more so than city which is Melbourne City in drag, that's worse than mono ethnic which south is not but the point is City only appeals to a very tiny segment. Man City fans in Melbourne LoL



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Every time I start to feel a touch positive about SMFC, we are assaulted with a barrage of the hate and conspiracy drivel their supporters spew up and realise, somewhat sadly, that they are bitterest of bitter losers.  They do deserve better fans and need better ambassadors.

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The biggest mistake you can make is judge a club based on half a dozen people on Social media, on another forum (clubs unofficial) the bid is largely ridiculed and many actually aren’t for it.

I really only get touchy when I read blatant lies, like the one where someone will write “they wave Greek flags everywhere and chant Greek songs” when someone knows that’s rubbish it can be difficult to hold back. When you know the process for the last Melbourne license was a scam and people from both parties confirm it it’s hard not to be cynical about things.
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bettega - 9 Dec 2018 4:59 PM
chris - 9 Dec 2018 3:37 PM

Correct Chris, anyone living within 10 to 15km of Lakeside Stadium is not going to travel out to Dandenong.  No one's heading out to Dandenong to watch anything.

Imagine how an interstate fan would feel Travelling to where????
How do you get there????
Really????
What's accommodation like???
How can I fly in and fly out????
Blah I'll just watch it on my phone in my lounge room in Sydney?
Vic Gov understands this already
Not a win for tourism that's for sure
chris
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SWandP - 9 Dec 2018 9:30 PM
Every time I start to feel a touch positive about SMFC, we are assaulted with a barrage of the hate and conspiracy drivel their supporters spew up and realise, somewhat sadly, that they are bitterest of bitter losers.  They do deserve better fans and need better ambassadors.

That's Bullshit and the above is a silly mindgame
The.most successful club in Australia deserves a fair go
You have an issue with passion from fans?
GO


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