Will start this early. They’ve called up Stoinis and released Renshaw for the squad

Stoinis, they have not got a clue.

labu is already the alrounder though right?

Not a pace bowling one.

Agree, in the sense that Michael Neser offers more fire as a pace bowler.

He took 2-8 off five  overs opening the attack with the new ball in the tour game against Sri Lanka at Bellerive last week.




Hang in there, Test Fan.

Renshaw is out of form.

I really hope he gets back to where he was 18 months ago.

Yeah didnt Nesser got to UAE? That was a weird squad with Nesser and Doggett both smokeys, never given a look and not looked at since. 

But looking at Nessers stats hes got 27 with the bat and 30 with the ball. Stoinis has 34 with the bat and 42 with the ball. Nesser has no first class hundreds whilst Stoinis has 4 and one international ODI century. Knowing that allrounder position is going to need to be a batting allrounder who can bat 6 and give us a few overs if needed but not really bowl a lot I can see why they went Stoinis. 

That said Langer has pretty much confirmed its an unchanged squad. Stoinis might be about getting him in the squad with the view of taking him as a pace bowling batting allrounder to the Ashes

If you pick an allrounder who is good enough they can act almost like two players.
If you pick an allrounder who is not good enough they are almost like not picking anyone. They will fail with the bat, they will fail with the ball.

There is not an all rounder in Australia who falls into the former category, all of them are the later and should be no where near the test team. 

Labuschagne has to be a batsman, and then his part time spin can be handy. However if he is a failure as a batsman his bowling is nowhere near good enough to keep him in the side.It might nab him a couple of wickets in favourable conditions, or even win a test if everything comes together like it did for Border and Clarke once, but he is not going to be anything like a test match quality spinner.

DC  I have to agree that  Wildermuth or even Neser would be a better bet than Stoinis if they wanna go down the very worn pace bowler all rounder path. We all know CA is obsessed with this policy. Stoinis  is a limited overs specialist. He has has a woeful FC record and has been picked alone on white ball performance. Just when you praise CA they come up with another clanger.

As I mentioned before how far away is Cummins as a good allrounder? to replace Labuschange?

Agree. This is gross clutching at straws. A silly policy by CA. They stuck with Mitch Marsh for so long as they hoped he would develop into a genuine all rounder.. like our last the great Keith "Nugget" Miller.  For some unknown reason to us all.. Mitch has never blossomed. I believe his main problem is between the ears. He certainly has the talent to do something similar to Miller. Is it something in the Marsh DNA that prevents them reaching their full potential?  Even Swampy fell short of what many of us believed he could achieve.

I am a touch puzzled about Renshaw. I posted earlier that I believed CA returned him to the fold as they wanted him for the Ashes. So what do they do they leave him out of the First Test and look like doing the same for the Second Test..as Langer says unlikely the selectors will change a winning side. So where does this put Renshaw's Ashes chances? His only hope now is to smash open the door in the remaining Shield games.

A way to go for Cummo. Would you pick him in your top 6?  He is at best a bowler who bats at #7 or #8.  For the moment he lacks the temperament and range of strokes to command full respect from the strongest sides. I have no doubt he could develop into a very good all rounder. There is no denying his determination and passion.. plus he is an excellent athlete. 

Stoinis might be about getting him in the squad with the view of taking him as a pace bowling batting allrounder to the Ashes.

Pace bowling all rounder? The bloke averages FC @40 with the ball.  Not much better than Mitch Marsh averaged at Test level. I should imagine Stoinis" batting would provide greater impact than his bowling in the Ashes. Still.. even my old mother in law can swing the Dukes... so Stoinis should be able to.

Also looks as tho Mr Teflon Mitch Starc has survived the axe. He can thank his lucky stars that there is no leftie putting pressure on in red ball cricket to challenge him.. such is CA's ludicrous policy of only playing white ball cricket during the Test summer. Behrendorff  has gone down with yet another injury I am hearing. So we have to continue with a dud.

Cummins is not an all rounder, he is a very good fast bowler who can make some runs. He only averages 20.30, but has looked better recently. Lets see if it continues. Mitchell Starc has a higher average than him with 21.85
Of recent times Reiffel averaged 26.52, Johnson 22.20 and Lee 20.15, others like Gillespie, Fleming, Bichel, Hughes and Warne are under 20 but could make handy runs.
Of those only Johnson and Gillespie have test centuries although Starc and Warne both have 99s.

If Cummins continues to improve and can make a couple of centuries then he would be an all rounder.

There is still a bit more to it, though. Sam Curran is a horrid bowler outside swinging conditions. Even in swinging conditions he sprays it. But he has the wrist position to get that Dukes to talk and hoop around when new and while he leaks runs, he becomes a huge wicket taking threat. 

The Dukes is far more swing friendly that the Kook - but the fundamentals of required wrist positioning remain the same. Even a pie chucker has to know how to swing a ball, to get the Dukes to swing on demand. Else its just random luck, and the odd ball goes, but not consistently, which means that odd ball is missing the outside edge by a mile...

Has Stoinis had results with the Dukes in FC in Australia? Does he know how to swing a ball?

Good points Paddles. Are there stats for each of the Shield parts? That would sure tell a story. Hard to say re Stoinis ..played 6 matches last  summer. only 9 wkts at a hi average. And CA obviously wants him for England as looks like they have discarded Mitch Marsh who has a decent England Test record..

I can tell you one bloke who benefits from the Dukes.. Canberran leftie Nick Winter. I want he and Dan Worrall seriously considered for an Ashes berth. Sayers and those two are our three specialist swing bowlers. Sayers seems to have lost favor with selectors. Why pick a bloke and never play him? I can never see the sense in that. Same is happening to Ashton Agar. 

Agree with you, Baggers.

They've selected Stoinis on shaky criteria. White ball cricket isn't Test or FC cricket.

I like the pace all rounder option though, to decrease fast bowlers' workloads on flat decks.

DC did Lillee, Thompson ever have a pace bowling all rounder to reduce their workload? 

Quicks thrive better on workload. Can you imagine trying to get the ball out of DK's hand so he could take a spell.

Under that nong Howard and his sports scientist gurus Australia's bowlers have become soft. They have been too molly coddled. They have lost that tuff edge. A fast bowler needs to be bowling as the great Pidge often comments. There is a reason why our mature bowlers are going down with the kid's ailment.. back stress fractures. Just point to CA.

Oh Baggers, turn it up. 

Lillee had Doug Walters. He didn't just fall onto 49 test wickets (at 29 a piece).

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=balls;player_involve=1369;team=2;template=results;type=bowling

Then the spin options:

Greg Chappel bowled 1 over to Lillee's 6...

Then Border and Ian Chappell.

I mean seriously. Michael Holding says the same thing about sport science. But the fact is 

1 There's so much more cricket now - but more importantly of all
2 There are minimum over rates now.

In Lillee and Holding's era, they took the piss. They didn't bowl when tired, 75 overs in the day only. So be it. It's changed now.

McGrath gave up bowling fast early on - even then he had Mark and Steve Waugh, let alone Blewett, Symonds and Watson at times. Bit of Bevan for some spin?

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=balls;player_involve=2101;team=2;template=results;type=bowling

Forgot about Dougie. A good partnership breaker. Greg was an under rated bowler imho.

This site is becoming a graveyard between Tests. I expect most of you work. 

Oh well - here is a trivia question for you...

Who took a hat trick in a 5 wicket bag in their last intl before being dropped?

white or red ball?

Does it matter?

Unchanged 11 for Australia, Marcus Stoinis is not playing. Hard me worried there, but sanity prevailed and he can go back to fake cricket.

I was worried about  Stoinis too, as I much prefer Michaeil Neser as the pace bowling all rounder. Stoinis is another stupid selection based on Mickey Mouse performances, not red or pink ball cricket.

My thoughts from watching players live at Bellerive have been confirmed by Shame Warne. He calls  for the inclusion of Pucovski and Riley Meredith in today's Test team, dropping Starc. 

He thinks it is best to blood young players at this time, not the future in a tough overseas Ashes scenario. Warne thinks Pucocvski is the best batting prospect we have, and, Meredith will be playing for Australia in all forms of cricket within a year.

He was very impressed with Richardson's debut too.

I don't work full time.

I'm a semi-retired teacher.

  I worked 15 days last year and about 30- 40 the year before. 

I am 100% with Warne. Pure nonsense to not changing a winning side. This test is the perfect time and place to debut Pucovski..

If Paine finally wins a toss.. makes sense with the overcast over Manuka.. to bowl first. 

Many pundits have commented on the fine job Paine is doing as  combined skipper/keeper. The man himself says he is thriving on it. He says that little has changed from his days as keeper only with his involvement in the mechanics of a game.. engaging with bowlers, and team mates.