4 points behind with a game in hand and 3 goals behind on goal difference. Can't predict anything in the A-League this year but it is quite likely that the title will be decided on the last game of the year against Sydney FC at the SFS. That could be a cracker. The team with the best home results this year against the team with the best away results this year. Only bad bit about that is that if they stay 1 and 2 then they will play 3 weeks in a row which could get a bit tiring.

And they will probably still only get 12-13k at the SFS :roll:

:shock: take it back.






Edited by LickMyLovePump: 11/1/2010 01:53:14 PM

If they both get to the GF it will mean 4 meetings in 5 weeks.

Do not want.

This is entirely my reason for hating the finals series. It turns bitter rivalries into bland annoyance that you're playing the same fucking team again.

Regardless of what happens with the premiership, i won't be going to a single finals game this year.

I certainly don't think MV is an elitist club. I'm just saying that they have already have the Melbourne/Victoria pre-existing brand - the Big V - and Heart has jack shit. I'm not out to trash Heart, I hope they are successful, the game needs them, but I think they need to stand for something.

If Victory have A-League and/or ACL success, it's going to make things very difficult for Sidwell et al, especially if they're trying to sell themselves as the "Beautiful Football Team". They need to get into a specific location somewhere, plant the seeds, wait for the roots to develop and then they can become a part of a specific community of ~1M people, which is more than what most other A-League clubs have access to. I just don't think Victory has to be the yardstick for Heart at this early stage - let them grow slowly but surely.

I'd rather an A-League Cup at the end of the season. 1-4 qualify direct into the quarter finals, 5-12 play off in cut throat games to qualify for quarter finals. Highest ranked team gets home ground advantage throughout.

Winners of Home and Away are Premiers, winners of knock out series are League Cup winners.

If you come from Melbourne or Sydney.
Dosen't matter if you like Football or not, you wait for the game between the two.
Four games in Five Weeks, will spicen it up even more.

Bring on the Finals i say.

But also scrap the finals once the FFA cup comes in.

Couldn't agree more. Not 100 miles from what we have now so it would only really require a shift in public perception instead of a drastic change to the competition

The problem with saying you're from, say, Dandenong, is that it's likely to alienate a lot of potential supporters (like me!). Everyone in Melbourne loves Melbourne. Hardly anyone loves their suburb, and a lot of people dislike particular suburbs.

It's true that just because van 't Schip is Dutch doesn't mean he will be good. But he has been quite open about the style of football he wants to play (whatever happens, he won't be like Pim), and if he is successful then that will be excellent for both Heart as well as the league in general.

I will be a dual member, and if things continue the way they are, my primary team will be the Heart. I want both teams to do well though, as that will make the derby games even better.

Yes but that's the point, it will alienate people in the north if Heart are based in the sth-east. People don't want anything to do with some team on the other side of town, they want to support their local team. The league need this, it needs geographical segmentation - you can still support Victory. In reality, we should be planning to have at least four Melbourne teams - one from the West, one from the North, one from the East/Sth East and Victory. The mistake at the start was to segment teams by cities. It should have been more detailed and segmented them by population centres (if that makes sense), so the numbers are relatively even.

If NQF can support an A-League team from 160K people, then Melbourne could support heaps more theoretically. Everyone should stop thinking they need to have big crowds like Victory at the start.

Off course they don't need to have Victory size crowds. They also don't need to be pigeon holed into a place that they don't want to be.

I really don't think that Heart needs to differentiate itself geographically in order to get a following, it's just not the sporting mentality in Victoria. I mean, for fucks sake, Essendon and Geelong are the only Victorian teams that aren't inner city suburbs.

Sporting team choice in Victoria is based more on daft aesthetic reasons (like following your dad's team or liking their colours) than any real connection to the geographical area they represent, for most people anyway. Some will follow Heart because they hate Ernie Merrick, some because they like their colours (if they're ever released), others because they like football or just because they want to be 'different'. The generalist approach makes shitloads more sense down here than it does in Sydney.

I don't think Heart will have any problems pulling a crowd - they just need to hurry the f up and let me know their colors and name.

Hopefully they announce sometime (early) this week!.

They mentioned on SEN last week that they are looking at Bundoora, and have previously mentioned La Trobe uni as a potential training base - but who knows, maybe that's them trying to put names out there to drive down the $$'s on a training facility in the Eastern / Western Corridor.

Yes, obviously they don't want to be there, otherwise they would be in the South East or wherever. I am arguing that their strategy is flawed. It would be better to represent 1 million people with a clear message and point of difference (just like other A-League clubs have done - think Western Sydney), rather than try to market to 4 million people with a murky message.

I'm not saying their current strategy will fail (the FFA will not allow it), but that it is not the best option for Heart, or for the A-League. I think they will need a very, very big fucking signing (eg Mark Viduka if he is willing and able) if they pursue their current strategy.

I hope I'm wrong Gyfox, because I do want them to succeed, and flourish. The state of the game in this country is the most important thing after all.

I disagree loki. The suburban rivalry is what made the AFL what it is today. Back in the day, people would follow their local team (ie if you lived in Collingwood, you barracked for Collingwood, you lived in Carlton, you barracked for Carlton, and you hated each other's guts), that's how it was.

Recently though, inner city suburbs have become more trendy so people moved to different places, therefore each suburb is no longer so parochial. Also, the grounds are centralised (eg no more Vic Park, Princes Park). So now it does indeed get passed on from generation to generation. But it didn't begin that way - it was all geographical at the start. Lots of rivalry, lots of hatred, it was real, not like Heart v Victory - they will share supporters, I mean what the fuck is that?

We can disagree all we like but in the end it is their money that they are risking so they call the tune. In my view they will draw a respectable crowd no matter how or where they pitch their tent because it is Melbourne. They don't have to be a raging financial success like Victory, if they cover their costs and increase the number of fans attending games in Melbourne they will have done their job. A game a week in Melbourne is the main goal.

Of course they call the tune, but the idea of forums is to discuss issues such as these.

Certainly they will improve the league, but it doesn't mean there aren't 10 better ways to do things. IMNSHO I think they were on nose candy when they concocted their business plan. There are thousands of successful examples of geographical segmentation of teams in sport (including Melbourne), why wouldn't they do the same. It just seems really obvious to me.

Correction - they couldn't find two franchises they liked who were prepared to take the risk. South Melbourne bid in the original round (fairly amateurishly I admit), and were passed over for Melbourne Victory (who weren't prepared to put up the entire fee so got 50/50 funding from the FFA if I remember correctly). Ironic really that the biggest sporting city has now had four serious bids for franchises - the two that didn't get up were both fully funded, the two that did get up both received major concessions from the FFA.

I should state, once again, for the record, before anyone starts assuming the worst - once the decision was made to go one team per city, the correct decision (in fact, the ONLY decision, was to go for the broad-based start-up franchise rather than the established ethnic option). It's when two places are on offer and an alternative is required that the waters become murky.

And Lowy's original plan for the A-League was 10 teams, 2 from Melbourne, 3 from Sydney.

There's always the possibility that they set up four accounts, over a period of 2 or 3 months (if you check their profiles), from four different locations, and are using the forum to put over a unified message. If so, nothing we can do about it.

That said, whilst it seemed a bit strange, it's also possible that one starting to post inspired the others to kick-off as well.



On the first part - no problem. The accusations of multi posting will continue just as long as more than a couple of you hold the same opinions - believe me, I know about such accusations!

Agree with the second part. I'm not a Heart fan. I'm confused by their existence. But I'm a firm believer that football will improve in Australia with every new viable franchise that enters the league.

As for the third. It's MELBOURNE HEART FC, I guarantee it. 100% certain. No idea why the FFA won't allow the Heart boys to announce it - but as the CEO said the other day, it's the FFA that are delaying it at the moment.

As for badge, it's reasonable to assume that it's designed, simply hasn't been filed at the TMO yet, so they can't release it just incase some cheeky bugger beats them to the application!

As for colours - I think we all suspect that it's going to be red and white, which would suit me down to the ground (perhaps less so for you if you're a true Mag!); but with Sydney Rovers also wearing red, white and black for season 7, the options are a little squeezed.

I'm beginning to come around to the idea that this is a long term strategy from the FFA to leave further room for expansion at a later date, so we get (wildest case scenario):

1st division
Melbourne Victory (1st Victorian club, picks up the non-ethnically alligned football fans)
Melbourne Heart (not Melbourne Victory, picks up those who don't like Victory)
2nd division
West Melbourne (geographically targeted at one of the strongest traditional football areas)
Casey (geographically targeted at fastest expanding area of the city)

I guess it must be a Melbourne thing that you can align with a region without playing your home games their. I see all the Melbourne AFL teams basically play out of 2 stadiums just seem strange to me I always thought where you played is where you represent. Brisbane Roar could call themselves Darwin FC but if their still playing at Suncorp their not a Darwin team.

So for all this talk about geographic differentiation … they are both using the same bloody stadium.

After the best finals series of all time and finally playing at a decent ground MV will sell out most of the time…. People who like to buy a ticket on the day can support heart.

That can be their niche and I can imagine the advertising now.

“disorganized, always late to the party…we have the team for you!”

@Benjamin, if that's true it's a bad plan because the time for holding their powder had gone. Get West Sydney in and Get West Melbourne in now!
MV are basically keeping this league afloat by showing that if you do it right you can be succesful. That probably gives hope to the other owners.



Edited by Andyroo: 11/1/2010 06:09:33 PM

I expected you to come in on that.:d

My expectations is that A2-League teams will come from geographical regions. In Melbourne I would expect up to 3 teams plus Geelong if someone wants to finance an expansion there. I would expect an east and a west and a central team in Melbourne and I believe that the door will be opened to some of the traditional teams across the country. 3/4 teams Victoria, 3/4 teams Sydney, 1 team Hunter Valley and 1 team Qld. I am assuming that Tassie, Canberra and possibly South Coast will get an A-League jersey and that depends on the future of Phoenix.

Anyway, back to Heart, what we need from them is not a gangbuster club but one that covers its costs long term.

I agree that it would be better if they played their games where they were based. But I still think they can have training and a social club in their geographical segment, as well as have local feeder clubs, a high visibility in the community, and also get investment from that community into the club, even whilst still playing in the city. This won't happen now, but it would've been great for them to play lower drawing games locally, and then play blockbusters and derbies in the rectangular stadium.

Tell me though, where would you expect a West Melbourne team to play?

Before Benjamin called it a big football area I didn't even know their was a west melbourne....I just thought that was Adelaide.



Edited by AndyRoo: 11-1-2010 09:50:08 오후

The thing with Melbourne is that it's an extraordinarily centralised city.

Brisbane could have a Darwin FC side, yes, but no one could get to the stadium from Darwin in 60 minutes - I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but probably about 80% of Melbourne's population can get from home to the stadiums in that time.

This is why, in all reality, any new sides in Melbourne have to be waaaaay out of the city to justify playing games 'at home' - hence, the South East corridor idea. A team based in Casey, serving Casey, would almost certainly require it's own venue to be worthwhile because you can't imagine 10k people travelling all the way into the city to watch their team playing at the Bubble.

To Johnny Come Lately, a Western Melbourne side would almost certainly play from a central venue in Melbourne but train somewhere out west thus protecting their identity.

A voice of reason!

Well said.

You don't know West Melbourne? Have you heard of Sunshine? Did you watch underbelly at all? Don't you know where Melbourne Knights are based?

Look - The west is growing ridiculously fast, and while its full of AFL fans, there are a lot of ethnically diverse groups whom hate AFL, and I could picture them uniting through a West Melbourne team.

HeartAttack, what do you think of your new club's strategy? Do you have any criticisms?