'Tis where I live! :P

But TBH, I couldn't see it working. Unless they appeal to a totally different group than Victory supporters, it wont work.

Even if there was a West Melbourne team, and it was in Sunshine, and it was across the road from my house. I would still support the Victory.

Melbourne Knights could geographically align itself with west melbourne and become the next a-league franchise ;)

Mate I didn't know Sunshine was in West Melbourne.... I've never looked at a Melbourne refadex in my life :P


It seems in every eastern state the West part is um unglamerous. I have lived in 2 out of 3 of them, i guess Sunshine is next :)


Edited by AndyRoo: 11-1-2010 10:32:31 오후

Not as yet. I do not know what else people expect them to do? In fact I am surprised at the criticism to be totally honest. Following the success of the Victory will always be a battle, but they are doing a great job so far. Also, the people involved are quality. Absolute quality.

I think there is no way they should come in and be segregated to one area of Melbourne. It will be a killer for the organisation straight off the bat.

I think they have appointed the most credentialed coach in the A-League and have put together a fantastic coaching staff. The recruits some have been critical of I think have been very good. They initially brought in players with good experience in the league and should form a solid core of a decent squad.

So far, from everything I read and hear, I have been very impressed and don't share any doubts a lot of others do about this new club. I have no doubt with the money men involved, along with the back room people lead by Scott Munn and the coaching staff I have mentioned, I see this as really exciting.

Still a fair bit to go, and I think we will be able to measure how many people will take to this club once they have announced a name, colours, logo etc. I am pretty sure we will also get some big names into the club and some young exciting talent from abroad and from Australia (which has already started).

All in all I am very happy, come back to me when everything is done and we embark on the new season and I will tell you a more clear answer. But so far, yep, very happy.

i believe this too

melb and sydney will each have 4 or so professional soccer teams
werribee/casey
perinth/campbelltown

or something like that :)

As I have argued numerous times, I disagree with your comment I have bolded. In light of your statement, what do you make of the Western Sydney franchise?

I have to admit though that the signings have been quite good. But I believe you need someone who will have a Robbie Fowler type of impact, particularly if you are pursuing the current strategy. I'm sure Heart will be fine in the long run, but I believe there are better ways to start out.

[/quote]

Not as yet. I do not know what else people expect them to do? In fact I am surprised at the criticism to be totally honest. Following the success of the Victory will always be a battle, but they are doing a great job so far. Also, the people involved are quality. Absolute quality.

I think there is no way they should come in and be segregated to one area of Melbourne. It will be a killer for the organisation straight off the bat.

I think they have appointed the most credentialed coach in the A-League and have put together a fantastic coaching staff. The recruits some have been critical of I think have been very good. They initially brought in players with good experience in the league and should form a solid core of a decent squad.

So far, from everything I read and hear, I have been very impressed and don't share any doubts a lot of others do about this new club. I have no doubt with the money men involved, along with the back room people lead by Scott Munn and the coaching staff I have mentioned, I see this as really exciting.

Still a fair bit to go, and I think we will be able to measure how many people will take to this club once they have announced a name, colours, logo etc. I am pretty sure we will also get some big names into the club and some young exciting talent from abroad and from Australia (which has already started).

All in all I am very happy, come back to me when everything is done and we embark on the new season and I will tell you a more clear answer. But so far, yep, very happy.[/quote]


Have to agree with you there.
I have never gone for footy teams because of location. Since being a kid, I always went for them depending on their animal / mascot.
I'm going for Heart because I like their style so far.

That will come mate, I'm sure of it.

I know you disagree with my views on segregation being a bad thing, and you make some valid points, but I will continue to say, in my opinion, there is no way the Heart can afford to come in and hope to target one market only and expect to survive. No chance they will be viable if they do that. Benjamin's post clearly states my reasoning.

What do I think of the new Sydney franchise? Not too shabby. I think they have good people behind the club like the Heart and that will hold them in good stead. They have announced their colours, logo and name so I think people are excited by that. Sydney Rovers? I don't feel it, but that could also be because of my distaste of anything Sydney! ;) I think they will be a success, but I fail to see why people have more confidence in them doing much better than the Melbourne Heart. They have targeted a strong area of Western Sydney which for Sydneys demographics, is a good move. Sydney is nothing like Melbourne. Again, Benjamin's post points this out clearly that Melbourne is more centralised. I live in the North West of Melbourne, I can tell you, even in the biggest Growth corridor of Craigieburn or somewhere similar, it would simply not work for the Heart to be segregated to it.

In your opinion, what do you make of the Sydney Rovers, and why do you think they will or will not be a bigger success than the Melbourne Heart?

Sorry, Werribee is just not the place for good football surfaces.

Maybe around the Brimbank area e.g. Green Gully, Melbourne Knights, or Keilor.

Forgive me, but I can't resist... If you normally pick teams because of their animal/mascot, why don't you wait to see what Heart's mascot is before throwing your hat in the ring?



Mmmm... Loves Heart. Knows the West of Melbourne. Very positive about the bid... Is your name 'John'?

Yeah - any fans will be what's left over of the NSL fanatics. Not many, if any.

TO andyroo. Come ter sunshine, it's not as bad as people make it out to be. I'm next door in scungier braybrook and i walk the dog regularly at night. Granted, it's a german shepherd big enough to maul anyone to death, but I still feel safe even without him.

On note: The heart will succeed in whatever they do simply because they're based in Melbourne. It's that kind of city. Sports mad.

I really wanna know what drives a person to be so loyal and vocal about a bid that has not materialised as yet - 4 signings and a coach?

I appreciate anticipation - but this is blind faith

When there is a new band in town, I would like to hear the song before I go out and buy the CD

4-5 games should do it

Edited by chris: 12/1/2010 12:21:59 AM

John? LOL.

Hey, you reckon any officials have accounts here? Would they post?

I guess it's like AC and Inter Milan, they both play in the same stadium and represent the same city/region. I'm not entirely familiar with who they targeted initially in their supporter base but nowadays people are born into supporting one or the other.

Funny thing is nothing posted on this thread by any of the Heart fanatics even resembles a differentiation to the current Victory - which poses the question - why aren't they following the Victory already???

Can one of the Heart Fanatics on this thread please advise that if there is something about the Victory that has kept these Hearts fanatics away from the game so far - please specify - and please - equally as important - specify what the Heart have done or stated will do that has won you over

I am interested to find out what the Heart is doing so well

I must be missing something as I just can't see it at the moment

Please win me over too as I have not been to a Victory game - mad football follower - prime candidate you might say

At this stage and I am serious, if someone held a gun to my head and asked me to choose from one of the 2 Melbourne Teams - I am more likely to choose the Victory



Edited by chris: 12/1/2010 12:50:54 AM

- AFL Is Weak in the West, you are correct. But the West, isn't the biggest place in Melbourne.

Ill give you some Stadiums in Melbourne:
* Bob Jane Stadium - South Melbourne FC - 14,000
* Mansion Stadium - Melbourne Knights FC - 15,000
* Epping Stadium - Whittlesea Zebras - 10,000

probs some others thats about it of good stadiums. Epping Stadium best surface, its better than Etihad, Sydney Football stadium etc. great great surface. a top class surface.

I read on wikipedia, though it was not cited that Heart are establishes an exchange program or link to Ajax's youth academy where Ajax youth players would play for Heart in the off season. Any news on this?


here's the exact quote:

"Melbourne Heart has been linked in discussions with the Ajax Youth Academy[citation needed], with a view to exchange Youth Players during the Dutch off season." wiki heart article

Edited by luk3tm: 12/1/2010 12:36:49 AM

Forget BJS - when Hell freezes - now you are getting personal

Thommo for Heart captain. Absolute legend, deserves every plaudit in the league

Anybody?

The elephant in the room

Here is a set of data that everyone may find interesting.

Column 1 is the average crowd figure for the 2009/10 season. Column 2 is the population that each club can draw from, in 1000’s. Column 3 is the quotient of Crowd over Population, which I have called the Yield, i.e., the number of people a given club attracts out of 1000 who the club represents.

Crowd Yield by Club (apologies for the formatting)

Club---------------Crowd Avg------------Population(1000’s)---------Yield/1000 people
AU-------------------11218---------------------1100-----------------------10.2
BR--------------------8819---------------------2000------------------------4.4
CCM-------------------7481----------------------300-----------------------24.9
GCU-------------------5468----------------------500-----------------------10.9
MV-------------------20815---------------------4000------------------------5.2
NJ--------------------5891----------------------300-----------------------19.6
NQF-------------------6711----------------------150-----------------------44.7
PG--------------------9419---------------------1650------------------------5.7
SFC------------------12101---------------------4400------------------------2.8
WP--------------------7368----------------------400-----------------------18.4

Now lets rank each team in increasing order of population and plot a histogram of the yield:

-|---------10--------20--------30--------40--------50
-|---------------------------------------------NQF
-|-------------------------CCM
-|-------------------- NJ
-|------------------ WP
-|-----------GCU
-|---------- AU
-|------ PG
-|---- BR
-|----- MV
-|---SFC

Clearly there is a negative correlation between the size of the club's population base and the average crowd it attracts per 1000 people. In other words, the smaller the population, the bigger the crowds per capita, and the bigger the population, the smaller the crowds per capita. We can see that NQF outperforms all others by a mile. CCM, NJ and WP also have solid numbers. And what about the GCU drama? On these figures they are doing much better than some other more high profile clubs. AU are also strong. The rest are just appalling - look at Victory, everyone talks up how fantastic their crowds are, but they should be pulling thousands more.

Now we must ask ourselves why this is so? At a guess, the clubs in the major cities are kind of removed from the population, don't really engage with the local community. In contrast, clubs like NQF (who many bagged at the start) are absolutely thriving, in relative terms. Look at how they run their club, very community oriented, social club, they play close to where their fans live etc. It's very much targeted marketing.

In summary, I am against clubs representing such a big population because as I have shown, they find it hard to engage with their communities - people don't have as high an affinity as they do to a more localised club (such as Fury, Mariners), which has more of a heart and soul, and becomes a part of them and vice versa.

That's why I support the strategic direction West Sydney is taking and against the strategy Melbourne Heart is pursuing. That's why I think they should relocate to a specific urban area of Melbourne such as the West or South East, and target a specific geographic segment (like NQF), and grow from there.

Note that I sourced the figures from Wikipedia (sorry to all those hardcore academics).

Edited by johnny come lately: 12/1/2010 01:11:52 AM

By that logic... Time for franchises in Dubbo, Shepparton and Bunbury. Attendances should be through the roof!

If you divide Australia's population by Townsville's population, you could potentially have ~150 Football teams that could each average ~7k, which equates to 525,000 people going to watch 1 round of football every week! :lol:

The problem you have is that although Rovers were selected to represent western Sydney they have decided to represent the whole of Sydney so you can't use them as an example of what should happen in Melbourne.

Edited by gyfox: 12/1/2010 01:47:59 AM

Do you have a source on that? If what you say is true then I am against the idea, although it would be very strange considering they are known as Western Sydney. Talk about a mixed message.

I posted this quote from Ian Rowden a couple of days ago but here it is again.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/a-league/controversy-rules-over-sydneys-newest-team-20091125-jlrq.html

They have deliberately left "west" or "western" out of their name so they are just Sydney Rovers. Having either of those in their name would have been a turn off for a lot of potential fans.

The name is not critical, who they represent is - they are still basing themselves in Western Sydney - I agree with this move. They can then utilise their scarce resources to market more effectively to a smaller, well-defined niche. There still must be at least 1 million people in the west, it's more than what a lot of other A-League clubs have to work with.

The article says that the fans from the western suburbs would like Rovers to represent all of Sydney. I disagree with this move if that's what Rovers will do. I don't think many people from the northern suburbs would be inclined to go and support a club (and attend games) in the west. They also spread their resources thin. They are better off focusing on the west and getting higher conversion rates, much like NQF and CCM have done.

Anyway, the Western Sydney point of contention is a bit of a straw-man argument. My broader point is still valid, as I have shown statistically.

My post earlier on in the thread states my reasoning. Don't know if it is what you are after but it is there nonetheless.

I fully support and agree with your opinion. If the West of Sydney has around 1 million people… isn’t that enough people to target?? Why do they want to spread their wings so far and run the risk of getting no one?? The more breadth they aim for, the less depth they will achieve. And with such a fickle sporting public (ie Sydney FC), depth is of the utmost important. I’m not from Sydney as you can clearly see, but if the club wants to avoid alleged ‘negative’ connotations associated with the west as others have mentioned on here, then wouldn’t you say that they are shitting on their own people? For what it’s worth, I feel they should stick to calling themselves West Sydney and stay true and proud to that group of people. Ultimately, whatever they call themselves, they are basing themselves in the west, so as long as they stay ‘well grounded’ to that community, they will achieve success.

The thing with Sydney Rovers is that whilst they say they are representing the whole city, the reality is that they were selected as a West Sydney franchise, they are based in West Sydney, they appear likely to play the vast majority of their games in West Sydney, and many of the supporters still refer to them as West Sydney.

The only reason for the stance on not using 'West' in their name is to avoid alienating potential support from other parts of the city.

No one is suggesting that Melbourne Heart should be called West Melbourne, or South Melbourne ;) , just that they should have a base or concept that attaches them to something more than 'not Victory'.



He he, you note he hasn't denied it yet. ;)

We know Ian Rowden has an account, I wouldn't be surprised if others don't at least check the forum on a regular basis. I'm pretty sure the FFA would have someone checking what harcore Aussie supporters think.

Terry Serepisos, Chairman of the 'Nix, and Tony Sage, chairman of Glory, are both occasional posters on their supporters forums, so again - I'd be surprised if officials weren't using various forums to keep an eye on public opinion.