Fair Play: How can a competent, educated grass roots coach rise up the coaching ladder and compete fairly for coaching positions when ex-players are fast tracked by the FFA?

For Australia to ultimately taste success in football on the world stage it needs more qualified coaches to fill the ranks and develop the future youth talent. Ex-players returning to coach alone are not the answer. Grass roots coaches who wish to pursue a professional coaching career currently lack the support needed to go all the way. Whilst ex-players are automatically slotted into the system and assumptions are made that because they have played the game at a high level then they can therefore coach.

Grass roots coaches juggle full time day jobs and still coach teams yet their successes and achievements are never featured in this magazine or any other medium.

Why?

Should we not embrace these enthusiastic individuals, encourage, support and showcase them as shining examples of how the game is for everyone and not just the elite few?

Why hasn't this magazine featured the top 10 or 20 non-ex-professional player coaches?

Anyone!](*,) #-o :idea: :-k

Fair comment.

Perhaps you could explain what a grass roots coach is as opposed to an ex player coach.

The grass roots coach has never played? Played only park kick and giggle?

Wouldn't Pappas fit into that bill?

I'm about to write a feature about the two week B License course I recently took at Sydney Academy of Sport.

Of the 29 people taking the course only a 2-3 had any sort of professional playing career.

Awesome to hear! Which edition of the mag will it be in as I will make sure I buy that one :D

It will be in all of them.

You will get 21 words of the article in each 442 edition this year; if you collect all 12, only then will you get the secret story!

:lol: Marketing GENIUS!

Appreciate the responses however it still does not address the issue at hand.

Getting a licence is not the issue, I have my C licence, its getting a coaching job which is the issue.

Ex-professional player coach vs a person who may have amateur football playing experiene plus coaching experience and licence, the ex player will always get the coaching gig.

That is my issue.

Write about that.

How about the magazine come and interview me and my young coaching friends, you will get a different perspective on the state of the game.

Fair go mate!

I think the main problem is pathways.

So you get your C licence - what jobs are you supposed to be getting? U18 state league positions? Division one jobs? Women's premier? etc.

What are your expectations, and what are the expectations the FFA has (if any) of the jobs you should be eligible for?

Thats it. Ex-Players have established networks which lets them transition to top team coaching.

This issue also raises a good "Theore v Practice" debate.

I would like the opportunity to go all the way to top team coaching, at the moment, I can get my licences but in the end will never be considered for a position for I have never played at a high level, and an ex-player will take my place instead.

Not all overseas top coaches played at a particularly high level, so why are we so backward in our thinking.

This isn't the AFL !!!!

Its ok, I will continue to coach youth teams and get my licences and one day apply for a role. Think ill get it?

I dunno - this is kind of what I'm asking. What's the requirements for a state league head coach position? A B license? C license?

I would imagine, naively, that the longer you spend at a club the more opportunity you'll have to progress from 15s, to 18s, to reserves, to assistant, to head... etc.

As long you coach in a competitive environment and not some mickey mouse two bob "akadumy" then all this remains possible.

Question though; would you be prepared to give up your day job for a full time lowly paid gig that offers fuckall security? That's usually the primary reason why people don't pursue their sockah coaching dreams.

Appropriate remuneration for a top coaching gig is another issue. You are right, no one would leave a full time role for a position that doesnt pay the bills. A-league pays the bills, and perhaps Youth league, but not Vic Premier league for example. Opportunities are few and far between.

Regarding requirements: Need minimum Pro-diploma to coach A-league and Youth as Head coach or Assistant, but have to be invited to do the licence so even if a coach gets up to A licence which is entirely achievable, Pro-diploma and positions associated may be out of reach.

So you're aiming for A-League? Not state league first?

What about overseas opportunities?

No I am aiming to work through the lower youth leagues and maybe one day if i work hard towards it i will come remotely close to the A-league, but that final step is the hard part.

Also, as mentioned previously, adequate remuneration or lack thereof is a real issue. FFA should be allocatng funds or forcing clubs to channel the money towards coach remuneration to accelerate the development of youh. A partnership of sorts where the FFA pays a percentage and clubs pay the remainder.

saaftasi,

I would recommend that you try to get assistant coach gigs to start with in as high as possible league as you can get. Being an understudy to a high level coach does open doors.

Ex-player coaches have the benefit of being coached by past high level coaches and so have the experience of what their previous coaches taught them. This doesn't necessarily make them a good coach but when combined with the latest coaching techniques give them a leg up.

Just obtaining a C licence gives you a solid grounding but will require the experience to learn the ropes and the finer details of coaching. Of course coaches who haven't played high level can do the job. But what will make clubs choose an ex-player practable coach over a theoretical is the ex-player hopefully has learned from mistakes in the past whereas the theoretical coach with the shinny new licence still needs to learn from their mistakes. Clubs at higher levels have enough trouble with experienced coaches let alone theoretical coaches who are still in the learning stage from a practical sense.

Hope i'm making sense. In short try to get assistant coach gigs to start with and see how you go. If the team likes your methods and respond well to you then taking the reigns is not out of the question should an opportunity arise.

Good luck.

Edited by Aussiesrus: 21/1/2012 10:58:00 AM

Good point well made!

I would be interested in the pass rates and how that compares to UEFA , aslo 29 x 3500 dollars for 2 weeks non residential is nice work.

all industries have an old boys network, so dont sweat about it.
Go to Europe and return with experience is the best option but dont expect things to be put on a plate.

Aussiesrus,

Great advice, much appreciated.

There's money in dem hills.

As a matter of interest, approx what age are you, saaf?

3500 for a coaching course?

Might as well just go to uni and do something worthwhile.

Would any of the other 26 be able to earn a living through FFA or A League programmes?

One state FFA TD told me that FFA wants former elite players in key coaching positions.

I'm not sure what Kelly Cross, Norm Boardman and Harry Bingham achieved in terms of pro careers?

http://au.fourfourtwo.com/forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=57370

You might be interested in reading this article, Saaftasi.



FFA love people doing C Licences, B Licences and A Licences, because they make a lot of money from them.

Opportunities for paid work are very limited for football coaches in Australia.

There are NTC jobs, national and state.

A League and W League have paid senior and youth coaches as well as assistants.

State FFA coaching associations need TDs and a few assistants. In big states like NSW and Victoria there are regional positions too.

The odd junior association is granted money for funding coaching programmes, but ongoing funding is tenuous from FFA.



If one is sacked from a competitive/ results based coaching position, there is no recourse to obtain another job. It is a tenuous existence. Some prefer development coaching.

If one moves from a development position to a results based position, one is judged on results, which as we all know is a risky occupation.

A salutary lesson in the fickle nature of coaching is that Jimmy Shoulder, much older than me, currently drives buses for a living. Jimmy was our former national TD awarding A Licences etc, to participants. He even had a spell as a Socceroo coach. I've retired on a reasonable superannuation pension much younger than Jimmy. I'm sure he wouldn't have wanted to swap positions with me 30 years ago. He would now.

I'm not sure what income Les Scheinflug, Raul Banco, Rale Rasic and Branko Culina earn from coaching at present? Frank Farina coaches Papua New Guinea, Ernie Merrick has just taken over Hong Kong, Jean-Paul Marigny was working in a supermarket and Nick Theodorokopoulos runs a travel agency.

Steve Darby was sacked from Thailand for agreeing with head coach Robson. He coached an Indian PL club for a few weeks - I'm not sure what he is doing ATM for income, but I think he is in a development coaching position in England.

I know another former NSL coach with two clubs. He earns a regular income from a soccer school in preference to the fickle nature of results based semi-pro and pro coaching.







Edited by Decentric: 26/1/2012 07:29:01 AM

The aforementioned Simon Kuper article I suggested covers this topic in some depth. It took a while for the English to accept that coaches could reach the top by not having great professional careers.

Arsene Wenger was a fringe professional.

Sacchi was hopeless as a player.

Jose Mourinho was limited as a player.

Gerard Houllier was more of a teacher than a player.

I think Benitez had a pretty modest career too.

Guus Hiddink was a modest pro, but was a teacher.

Pim Verbeek was a pro who was forced to retire early through injury, but like Hiddink had taught.







Edited by Decentric: 26/1/2012 06:56:47 AM





Just read that Holger Osieck became a football coach as the FFA B Licence was an option in his PE degree.

He and some of his mates thought it was a more interesting option than some of the other coursework in his PE degree .

Edited by Decentric: 5/2/2012 11:51:12 PM

Seems to me as a nation we a grabbing the wrong end of a shitty stick.
We need quality coaching at the youth level as well as the top level.

Judy Free - I am 31 years old.

Decentric - Thanks for the list, I knew of a few of those and that motivates me to push on. To clarify a point, I am not looking to coach to earn a million dollars. If I earn a million dollars then lucky me but I coach out of love for the game and want to give back. I want to develop the youth of tomorrow and give them guidance that was never given to me but had to learn on my own.

I want to be a Senior Manager one day, but have plenty of time for that. Obviously if I can earn a modest wage that covers the basic bills then I would be satisfied and those roles I am discovering are available. Just have to keep plodding along. Get my licences, get the results, develop good working relationships with people in the industry and establish a good reputation for myself. Only then will opportunities open up for me. It comes down to hard work and giving myself the necessary time.

I am patient.

One step at a time, first have to survive this season and then look to pass my B licence.

Exactly, and no different to any workplace.

But strayan sockah being strayan sockah, prepare yourself for a mountain of obstacles.

=d> This has to have been the best thread in Performance for quite a while now, well done all! =d>