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Muz
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+xFeast on this Muz https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883“In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population.” “The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. “ “By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.” “nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019” “There is “no significant evidence of antiblack disparity in the likelihood of being fatally shot by police,” they concluded.” “A 2015 Justice Department analysis of the Philadelphia Police Department found that white police officers were less likely than black or Hispanic officers to shoot unarmed black suspects. “ Well I would but it's behind a paywall.
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Muz
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rusty
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+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. Initially when the first autopsy was done it determined he didn't die of asphyxiation due to compression of the neck.. Then another autopsy was done by a pathologist for hire who determined he died due to asphyxiation and was in perfect health. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. It's also interesting that the while the Floyd family commissioned autopsy found that he had no signs of heart disease, the official autopsy found that he suffered from advanced disease which likely contributed to his death, so it's probably the former was a dud and the celebrity pathologist made commercial findings rather than a medical ones. Regardless, I believe there's enough evidence to charge with the cops, all four with something, though I'm not sure if murder is the correct charge. Neck compression is actually permitted by Minnesota law enforcement, however in very strict circumstances and only when all other alternatives have been exhausted. In this case it's clear that the officer used unjustified force to restrain Floyd and was probably the principal cause of his death, however for murder to be murder there needs to be intent to kill, otherwise its something like culpable homicide or manslaughter. I do not know and I do not think anyone on here knows whether kneeling on someones neck for a sustained period would cause them to have a heart attack, or whether certain people are more vulnerable such as those with hypertension and heart disease. Who knows, perhaps if Floyd were healthy he might have survived. Regardless it doesn't excuse the cop, he either intended to kill or was extremely negligent resulting in death, and deserves to go to jail. My fear is now that the jury may not find that the prosecution proves intent beyond reasonable doubt, and that he may get off due to the incorrect charge being laid which will probably result in another round of riots and looting. As for the other Offices involved they are obviously less culpable, UNLESS they knew that prolonged neck compression was likely to cause someone to suffocate. I imagine they were trained in this technique and had some idea about its limits, and if they knew that it was deadly force and did nothing then they too need to go to jail. The only other thing I would like to know is what happened in the back seat that caused Floyd to be removed from the car and restrained in the way he was. There was clearly a struggle and the police seemed panicked by something that happened, so it would be interesting to know what it was.
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rusty
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All of those links are bullshit. I didnt even bother opening the CNN one, it would be like me sourcing Fox News in support of my argument. Show me solid rigorous analysis that blacks are frequent victims of police brutality , and you're going to need to find something a bit harder than traffic stops and parking tickets.
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robstazzz
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+x+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. Initially when the first autopsy was done it determined he didn't die of asphyxiation due to compression of the neck.. Then another autopsy was done by a pathologist for hire who determined he died due to asphyxiation and was in perfect health. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. It's also interesting that the while the Floyd family commissioned autopsy found that he had no signs of heart disease, the official autopsy found that he suffered from advanced disease which likely contributed to his death, so it's probably the former was a dud and the celebrity pathologist made commercial findings rather than a medical ones. Regardless, I believe there's enough evidence to charge with the cops, all four with something, though I'm not sure if murder is the correct charge. Neck compression is actually permitted by Minnesota law enforcement, however in very strict circumstances and only when all other alternatives have been exhausted. In this case it's clear that the officer used unjustified force to restrain Floyd and was probably the principal cause of his death, however for murder to be murder there needs to be intent to kill, otherwise its something like culpable homicide or manslaughter. I do not know and I do not think anyone on here knows whether kneeling on someones neck for a sustained period would cause them to have a heart attack, or whether certain people are more vulnerable such as those with hypertension and heart disease. Who knows, perhaps if Floyd were healthy he might have survived. Regardless it doesn't excuse the cop, he either intended to kill or was extremely negligent resulting in death, and deserves to go to jail. My fear is now that the jury may not find that the prosecution proves intent beyond reasonable doubt, and that he may get off due to the incorrect charge being laid which will probably result in another round of riots and looting. As for the other Offices involved they are obviously less culpable, UNLESS they knew that prolonged neck compression was likely to cause someone to suffocate. I imagine they were trained in this technique and had some idea about its limits, and if they knew that it was deadly force and did nothing then they too need to go to jail. The only other thing I would like to know is what happened in the back seat that caused Floyd to be removed from the car and restrained in the way he was. There was clearly a struggle and the police seemed panicked by something that happened, so it would be interesting to know what it was. There's alot of dodgy shit involved with this case. What isn't dodgy for me is the fact that the main police officer involved is guilty from the get go. Anyways he's been charged with second degree murder so let's see what happens, but in my books I think he easily deserves 15 years based off that video alone being the only evidence available.
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NicCarBel
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+x+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. See, saying that is stretching a long bow. That's like saying someone got shot died of blood loss. Technically right, but they died because they got shot. Or, someone died because of head trauma in a car accident.
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
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+xAll of those links are bullshit. I didnt even bother opening the CNN one, it would be like me sourcing Fox News in support of my argument. Show me solid rigorous analysis that blacks are frequent victims of police brutality , and you're going to need to find something a bit harder than traffic stops and parking tickets. The CNN article contains links to other studies and research. I love how you just write off whole lumps of research and data with a trite 'all of these links are bullshit'. Bravo.
Member since 2008.
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. Initially when the first autopsy was done it determined he didn't die of asphyxiation due to compression of the neck.. Then another autopsy was done by a pathologist for hire who determined he died due to asphyxiation and was in perfect health. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. It's also interesting that the while the Floyd family commissioned autopsy found that he had no signs of heart disease, the official autopsy found that he suffered from advanced disease which likely contributed to his death, so it's probably the former was a dud and the celebrity pathologist made commercial findings rather than a medical ones. Regardless, I believe there's enough evidence to charge with the cops, all four with something, though I'm not sure if murder is the correct charge. Neck compression is actually permitted by Minnesota law enforcement, however in very strict circumstances and only when all other alternatives have been exhausted. In this case it's clear that the officer used unjustified force to restrain Floyd and was probably the principal cause of his death, however for murder to be murder there needs to be intent to kill, otherwise its something like culpable homicide or manslaughter. I do not know and I do not think anyone on here knows whether kneeling on someones neck for a sustained period would cause them to have a heart attack, or whether certain people are more vulnerable such as those with hypertension and heart disease. Who knows, perhaps if Floyd were healthy he might have survived. Regardless it doesn't excuse the cop, he either intended to kill or was extremely negligent resulting in death, and deserves to go to jail. My fear is now that the jury may not find that the prosecution proves intent beyond reasonable doubt, and that he may get off due to the incorrect charge being laid which will probably result in another round of riots and looting. As for the other Offices involved they are obviously less culpable, UNLESS they knew that prolonged neck compression was likely to cause someone to suffocate. I imagine they were trained in this technique and had some idea about its limits, and if they knew that it was deadly force and did nothing then they too need to go to jail. The only other thing I would like to know is what happened in the back seat that caused Floyd to be removed from the car and restrained in the way he was. There was clearly a struggle and the police seemed panicked by something that happened, so it would be interesting to know what it was. There's alot of dodgy shit involved with this case. What isn't dodgy for me is the fact that the main police officer involved is guilty from the get go. Anyways he's been charged with second degree murder so let's see what happens, but in my books I think he easily deserves 15 years based off that video alone being the only evidence available. They won't make 2nd degree stick and it's ridiculous they upgraded the charge. 1st degree is premeditation and intent. 2nd degree is no premeditation but intent. 3rd degree is effectively our manslaughter. Unless that police officer is a fucking moron I doubt he meant to kill that bloke in full public view. That's why 2nd degree won't stick.
Member since 2008.
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Muz
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robstazzz
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+x+x+x+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. Initially when the first autopsy was done it determined he didn't die of asphyxiation due to compression of the neck.. Then another autopsy was done by a pathologist for hire who determined he died due to asphyxiation and was in perfect health. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. It's also interesting that the while the Floyd family commissioned autopsy found that he had no signs of heart disease, the official autopsy found that he suffered from advanced disease which likely contributed to his death, so it's probably the former was a dud and the celebrity pathologist made commercial findings rather than a medical ones. Regardless, I believe there's enough evidence to charge with the cops, all four with something, though I'm not sure if murder is the correct charge. Neck compression is actually permitted by Minnesota law enforcement, however in very strict circumstances and only when all other alternatives have been exhausted. In this case it's clear that the officer used unjustified force to restrain Floyd and was probably the principal cause of his death, however for murder to be murder there needs to be intent to kill, otherwise its something like culpable homicide or manslaughter. I do not know and I do not think anyone on here knows whether kneeling on someones neck for a sustained period would cause them to have a heart attack, or whether certain people are more vulnerable such as those with hypertension and heart disease. Who knows, perhaps if Floyd were healthy he might have survived. Regardless it doesn't excuse the cop, he either intended to kill or was extremely negligent resulting in death, and deserves to go to jail. My fear is now that the jury may not find that the prosecution proves intent beyond reasonable doubt, and that he may get off due to the incorrect charge being laid which will probably result in another round of riots and looting. As for the other Offices involved they are obviously less culpable, UNLESS they knew that prolonged neck compression was likely to cause someone to suffocate. I imagine they were trained in this technique and had some idea about its limits, and if they knew that it was deadly force and did nothing then they too need to go to jail. The only other thing I would like to know is what happened in the back seat that caused Floyd to be removed from the car and restrained in the way he was. There was clearly a struggle and the police seemed panicked by something that happened, so it would be interesting to know what it was. There's alot of dodgy shit involved with this case. What isn't dodgy for me is the fact that the main police officer involved is guilty from the get go. Anyways he's been charged with second degree murder so let's see what happens, but in my books I think he easily deserves 15 years based off that video alone being the only evidence available. They won't make 2nd degree stick and it's ridiculous they upgraded the charge. 1st degree is premeditation and intent. 2nd degree is no premeditation but intent. 3rd degree is effectively our manslaughter. Unless that police officer is a fucking moron I doubt he meant to kill that bloke in full public view. That's why 2nd degree won't stick. You're probably right that it won't stick, and if so that's bullshit. Do you know what the minimum sentence is for 3rd degree murder in America?
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NicCarBel
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.3K,
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+x+x+x+x+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. Initially when the first autopsy was done it determined he didn't die of asphyxiation due to compression of the neck.. Then another autopsy was done by a pathologist for hire who determined he died due to asphyxiation and was in perfect health. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. It's also interesting that the while the Floyd family commissioned autopsy found that he had no signs of heart disease, the official autopsy found that he suffered from advanced disease which likely contributed to his death, so it's probably the former was a dud and the celebrity pathologist made commercial findings rather than a medical ones. Regardless, I believe there's enough evidence to charge with the cops, all four with something, though I'm not sure if murder is the correct charge. Neck compression is actually permitted by Minnesota law enforcement, however in very strict circumstances and only when all other alternatives have been exhausted. In this case it's clear that the officer used unjustified force to restrain Floyd and was probably the principal cause of his death, however for murder to be murder there needs to be intent to kill, otherwise its something like culpable homicide or manslaughter. I do not know and I do not think anyone on here knows whether kneeling on someones neck for a sustained period would cause them to have a heart attack, or whether certain people are more vulnerable such as those with hypertension and heart disease. Who knows, perhaps if Floyd were healthy he might have survived. Regardless it doesn't excuse the cop, he either intended to kill or was extremely negligent resulting in death, and deserves to go to jail. My fear is now that the jury may not find that the prosecution proves intent beyond reasonable doubt, and that he may get off due to the incorrect charge being laid which will probably result in another round of riots and looting. As for the other Offices involved they are obviously less culpable, UNLESS they knew that prolonged neck compression was likely to cause someone to suffocate. I imagine they were trained in this technique and had some idea about its limits, and if they knew that it was deadly force and did nothing then they too need to go to jail. The only other thing I would like to know is what happened in the back seat that caused Floyd to be removed from the car and restrained in the way he was. There was clearly a struggle and the police seemed panicked by something that happened, so it would be interesting to know what it was. There's alot of dodgy shit involved with this case. What isn't dodgy for me is the fact that the main police officer involved is guilty from the get go. Anyways he's been charged with second degree murder so let's see what happens, but in my books I think he easily deserves 15 years based off that video alone being the only evidence available. They won't make 2nd degree stick and it's ridiculous they upgraded the charge. 1st degree is premeditation and intent. 2nd degree is no premeditation but intent. 3rd degree is effectively our manslaughter. Unless that police officer is a fucking moron I doubt he meant to kill that bloke in full public view. That's why 2nd degree won't stick. You're probably right that it won't stick, and if so that's bullshit. Do you know what the minimum sentence is for 3rd degree murder in America? In Minnesota (a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years. So, I don't think there is a minimum, but there is a maximum of 25
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rusty
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 6.1K,
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+x+x+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. See, saying that is stretching a long bow. That's like saying someone got shot died of blood loss. Technically right, but they died because they got shot. Or, someone died because of head trauma in a car accident. No its not like saying that. If you read the autopsy the cause of death wasn't neck compression causing asphyxiation, it was subdual, restraint and neck compression causing heart attack. If the guy on the neck is guilty of murder, then so are the other cops because their actions of subduing and restraining Floyd caused his heart attack. Most acts of restraining and subduing someone would not lead to death, as is demonstrated by 99.99% of police arrests, unlike shooting someone which is far more likely to result in death.
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NicCarBel
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.3K,
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+x+x+x+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. See, saying that is stretching a long bow. That's like saying someone got shot died of blood loss. Technically right, but they died because they got shot. Or, someone died because of head trauma in a car accident. No its not like saying that. If you read the autopsy the cause of death wasn't neck compression causing asphyxiation, it was subdual, restraint and neck compression causing heart attack. If the guy on the neck is guilty of murder, then so are the other cops because their actions of subduing and restraining Floyd caused his heart attack. Most acts of restraining and subduing someone would not lead to death, as is demonstrated by 99.99% of police arrests, unlike shooting someone which is far more likely to result in death. Yes it is saying it like that. They have been charged with murder as well, so you're saying you agree with the prosecutors, correct? How on earth do you think he had restraint and neck compression? Beach cruise?
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robstazzz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.4K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. Initially when the first autopsy was done it determined he didn't die of asphyxiation due to compression of the neck.. Then another autopsy was done by a pathologist for hire who determined he died due to asphyxiation and was in perfect health. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. It's also interesting that the while the Floyd family commissioned autopsy found that he had no signs of heart disease, the official autopsy found that he suffered from advanced disease which likely contributed to his death, so it's probably the former was a dud and the celebrity pathologist made commercial findings rather than a medical ones. Regardless, I believe there's enough evidence to charge with the cops, all four with something, though I'm not sure if murder is the correct charge. Neck compression is actually permitted by Minnesota law enforcement, however in very strict circumstances and only when all other alternatives have been exhausted. In this case it's clear that the officer used unjustified force to restrain Floyd and was probably the principal cause of his death, however for murder to be murder there needs to be intent to kill, otherwise its something like culpable homicide or manslaughter. I do not know and I do not think anyone on here knows whether kneeling on someones neck for a sustained period would cause them to have a heart attack, or whether certain people are more vulnerable such as those with hypertension and heart disease. Who knows, perhaps if Floyd were healthy he might have survived. Regardless it doesn't excuse the cop, he either intended to kill or was extremely negligent resulting in death, and deserves to go to jail. My fear is now that the jury may not find that the prosecution proves intent beyond reasonable doubt, and that he may get off due to the incorrect charge being laid which will probably result in another round of riots and looting. As for the other Offices involved they are obviously less culpable, UNLESS they knew that prolonged neck compression was likely to cause someone to suffocate. I imagine they were trained in this technique and had some idea about its limits, and if they knew that it was deadly force and did nothing then they too need to go to jail. The only other thing I would like to know is what happened in the back seat that caused Floyd to be removed from the car and restrained in the way he was. There was clearly a struggle and the police seemed panicked by something that happened, so it would be interesting to know what it was. There's alot of dodgy shit involved with this case. What isn't dodgy for me is the fact that the main police officer involved is guilty from the get go. Anyways he's been charged with second degree murder so let's see what happens, but in my books I think he easily deserves 15 years based off that video alone being the only evidence available. They won't make 2nd degree stick and it's ridiculous they upgraded the charge. 1st degree is premeditation and intent. 2nd degree is no premeditation but intent. 3rd degree is effectively our manslaughter. Unless that police officer is a fucking moron I doubt he meant to kill that bloke in full public view. That's why 2nd degree won't stick. You're probably right that it won't stick, and if so that's bullshit. Do you know what the minimum sentence is for 3rd degree murder in America? In Minnesota (a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years. So, I don't think there is a minimum, but there is a maximum of 25 Thanks. Yeh that's not right that there isn't a minimum.
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rusty
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 6.1K,
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+x+x+x+x+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. See, saying that is stretching a long bow. That's like saying someone got shot died of blood loss. Technically right, but they died because they got shot. Or, someone died because of head trauma in a car accident. No its not like saying that. If you read the autopsy the cause of death wasn't neck compression causing asphyxiation, it was subdual, restraint and neck compression causing heart attack. If the guy on the neck is guilty of murder, then so are the other cops because their actions of subduing and restraining Floyd caused his heart attack. Most acts of restraining and subduing someone would not lead to death, as is demonstrated by 99.99% of police arrests, unlike shooting someone which is far more likely to result in death. Yes it is saying it like that. They have been charged with murder as well, so you're saying you agree with the prosecutors, correct? How on earth do you think he had restraint and neck compression? Beach cruise? No it's not like saying that. If you restrain someone and they die because they had a bad heart are you a murderer? Some people have died just from being handcuffed or tasered, they have wigged out and died, are the police guilty of murder? If you dont understand the difference between restraining someone and shooting them then you are lost soul.
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paulbagzFC
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And the Gold medal goes too... -PB
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ErogenousZone
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+x+x+x+x+x+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. See, saying that is stretching a long bow. That's like saying someone got shot died of blood loss. Technically right, but they died because they got shot. Or, someone died because of head trauma in a car accident. No its not like saying that. If you read the autopsy the cause of death wasn't neck compression causing asphyxiation, it was subdual, restraint and neck compression causing heart attack. If the guy on the neck is guilty of murder, then so are the other cops because their actions of subduing and restraining Floyd caused his heart attack. Most acts of restraining and subduing someone would not lead to death, as is demonstrated by 99.99% of police arrests, unlike shooting someone which is far more likely to result in death. Yes it is saying it like that. They have been charged with murder as well, so you're saying you agree with the prosecutors, correct? How on earth do you think he had restraint and neck compression? Beach cruise? No it's not like saying that. If you restrain someone and they die because they had a bad heart are you a murderer? Some people have died just from being handcuffed or tasered, they have wigged out and died, are the police guilty of murder? If you dont understand the difference between restraining someone and shooting them then you are lost soul. You're either a troll or a sociopathic nutcase if you actually believe that.
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Burztur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.1K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. See, saying that is stretching a long bow. That's like saying someone got shot died of blood loss. Technically right, but they died because they got shot. Or, someone died because of head trauma in a car accident. No its not like saying that. If you read the autopsy the cause of death wasn't neck compression causing asphyxiation, it was subdual, restraint and neck compression causing heart attack. If the guy on the neck is guilty of murder, then so are the other cops because their actions of subduing and restraining Floyd caused his heart attack. Most acts of restraining and subduing someone would not lead to death, as is demonstrated by 99.99% of police arrests, unlike shooting someone which is far more likely to result in death. Yes it is saying it like that. They have been charged with murder as well, so you're saying you agree with the prosecutors, correct? How on earth do you think he had restraint and neck compression? Beach cruise? No it's not like saying that. If you restrain someone and they die because they had a bad heart are you a murderer? Some people have died just from being handcuffed or tasered, they have wigged out and died, are the police guilty of murder? If you dont understand the difference between restraining someone and shooting them then you are lost soul. You're either a troll or a sociopathic nutcase if you actually believe that. Pretty sure he didn’t need to restrain him by having a knee on his neck for 9 minutes.
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NicCarBel
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.3K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. See, saying that is stretching a long bow. That's like saying someone got shot died of blood loss. Technically right, but they died because they got shot. Or, someone died because of head trauma in a car accident. No its not like saying that. If you read the autopsy the cause of death wasn't neck compression causing asphyxiation, it was subdual, restraint and neck compression causing heart attack. If the guy on the neck is guilty of murder, then so are the other cops because their actions of subduing and restraining Floyd caused his heart attack. Most acts of restraining and subduing someone would not lead to death, as is demonstrated by 99.99% of police arrests, unlike shooting someone which is far more likely to result in death. Yes it is saying it like that. They have been charged with murder as well, so you're saying you agree with the prosecutors, correct? How on earth do you think he had restraint and neck compression? Beach cruise? No it's not like saying that. If you restrain someone and they die because they had a bad heart are you a murderer? Some people have died just from being handcuffed or tasered, they have wigged out and died, are the police guilty of murder? If you dont understand the difference between restraining someone and shooting them then you are lost soul. You're either a troll or a sociopathic nutcase if you actually believe that. Pretty sure he didn’t need to restrain him by having a knee on his neck for 9 minutes. Exactly. Rusty, while in the instance you say, where someone is restrained, murder might be a loose term, but its the term that Minnesota uses to the third-degree. If I run someone over (a reckless act, like pinning someone down for nigh-on 10 minutes), and say, "Whoops, but the autopsy says that they died of a collapsed lung and they had asthma. I know I hit them in the chest with a car going 40km/h, but they had Asthma!" Are you saying that would be a valid defence in that scenario?
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mcjules
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. See, saying that is stretching a long bow. That's like saying someone got shot died of blood loss. Technically right, but they died because they got shot. Or, someone died because of head trauma in a car accident. No its not like saying that. If you read the autopsy the cause of death wasn't neck compression causing asphyxiation, it was subdual, restraint and neck compression causing heart attack. If the guy on the neck is guilty of murder, then so are the other cops because their actions of subduing and restraining Floyd caused his heart attack. Most acts of restraining and subduing someone would not lead to death, as is demonstrated by 99.99% of police arrests, unlike shooting someone which is far more likely to result in death. Yes it is saying it like that. They have been charged with murder as well, so you're saying you agree with the prosecutors, correct? How on earth do you think he had restraint and neck compression? Beach cruise? No it's not like saying that. If you restrain someone and they die because they had a bad heart are you a murderer? Some people have died just from being handcuffed or tasered, they have wigged out and died, are the police guilty of murder? If you dont understand the difference between restraining someone and shooting them then you are lost soul. You're either a troll or a sociopathic nutcase if you actually believe that. I think if you troll this way you're a sociopath anyway as you have no morals or ethics.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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rusty
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 6.1K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. See, saying that is stretching a long bow. That's like saying someone got shot died of blood loss. Technically right, but they died because they got shot. Or, someone died because of head trauma in a car accident. No its not like saying that. If you read the autopsy the cause of death wasn't neck compression causing asphyxiation, it was subdual, restraint and neck compression causing heart attack. If the guy on the neck is guilty of murder, then so are the other cops because their actions of subduing and restraining Floyd caused his heart attack. Most acts of restraining and subduing someone would not lead to death, as is demonstrated by 99.99% of police arrests, unlike shooting someone which is far more likely to result in death. Yes it is saying it like that. They have been charged with murder as well, so you're saying you agree with the prosecutors, correct? How on earth do you think he had restraint and neck compression? Beach cruise? No it's not like saying that. If you restrain someone and they die because they had a bad heart are you a murderer? Some people have died just from being handcuffed or tasered, they have wigged out and died, are the police guilty of murder? If you dont understand the difference between restraining someone and shooting them then you are lost soul. You're either a troll or a sociopathic nutcase if you actually believe that. Pretty sure he didn’t need to restrain him by having a knee on his neck for 9 minutes. Exactly. Rusty, while in the instance you say, where someone is restrained, murder might be a loose term, but its the term that Minnesota uses to the third-degree. If I run someone over (a reckless act, like pinning someone down for nigh-on 10 minutes), and say, "Whoops, but the autopsy says that they died of a collapsed lung and they had asthma. I know I hit them in the chest with a car going 40km/h, but they had Asthma!" Are you saying that would be a valid defence in that scenario? No if you run over someone there is a high probability that person will die, so that would likely count as murder or attempted murder. I dont know the probability of death if you lean on someones neck for 10 minutes, however its an important detail that he did not choke to death, he did not suffocate, his death was caused by a combination of three things; subdual, restrain and neck compression causing heart attack. So if you argue that the cop on neck is a murderer, then you have to apply the same standard to the other officers, including the one standing guard if he laid hands on him (subdual and restraint) during the arrest. You will then have to apply the same standard to every future scenario of someone dying in the process of being arrested, if you argue that pre existing health conditions plays no role in the culpability of the death. So the next time a police officer tasers someone and they die due to heart attack are you going to charge them with murder? What if they taser them twice, lets say the second zap is illegal but it causes death, is your argument that that cop deliberately tried to kill the victim? My argument here is that not that the officers arent culpable, rather the charge of murder requires specific INTENT to kill. You have to prove that all four offices intended to kill Floyd, that is the basis of murder, otherwise its something else like culpable homicide, manslaughter or criminal negligence. On the basis that Floyd had multiple health issues and drugs in his system that potentially contributed to his death then its possible that they will present as mitigating factors at trial. Once again I’m not saying that the Officers didnt KILL Floyd, they definitely contributed his death, however this isnt an all or nothing situation, and the prosecution are going to have a difficult time proving that all four officers set out to murder him. This is why we have courts and trained lawyers and judges that adjudicate on these issues, who understand the intrinsic complexities of such matters, rather than the mob who can only compute in black and white (figuratively speaking).
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rusty
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 6.1K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. See, saying that is stretching a long bow. That's like saying someone got shot died of blood loss. Technically right, but they died because they got shot. Or, someone died because of head trauma in a car accident. No its not like saying that. If you read the autopsy the cause of death wasn't neck compression causing asphyxiation, it was subdual, restraint and neck compression causing heart attack. If the guy on the neck is guilty of murder, then so are the other cops because their actions of subduing and restraining Floyd caused his heart attack. Most acts of restraining and subduing someone would not lead to death, as is demonstrated by 99.99% of police arrests, unlike shooting someone which is far more likely to result in death. Yes it is saying it like that. They have been charged with murder as well, so you're saying you agree with the prosecutors, correct? How on earth do you think he had restraint and neck compression? Beach cruise? No it's not like saying that. If you restrain someone and they die because they had a bad heart are you a murderer? Some people have died just from being handcuffed or tasered, they have wigged out and died, are the police guilty of murder? If you dont understand the difference between restraining someone and shooting them then you are lost soul. You're either a troll or a sociopathic nutcase if you actually believe that. I think if you troll this way you're a sociopath anyway as you have no morals or ethics. Sociopathic is hijacking the legal system to pursue confected convictions against members of religious minorities because you hate religion.
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rusty
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 6.1K,
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“Two of the cops charged with aiding and abetting the murder of George Floyd had been on the force for just four days when he was killed. Alexander Kueng and Thomas Lane were rookies who were barely off probation”
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K,
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NicCarBel
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.3K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. See, saying that is stretching a long bow. That's like saying someone got shot died of blood loss. Technically right, but they died because they got shot. Or, someone died because of head trauma in a car accident. No its not like saying that. If you read the autopsy the cause of death wasn't neck compression causing asphyxiation, it was subdual, restraint and neck compression causing heart attack. If the guy on the neck is guilty of murder, then so are the other cops because their actions of subduing and restraining Floyd caused his heart attack. Most acts of restraining and subduing someone would not lead to death, as is demonstrated by 99.99% of police arrests, unlike shooting someone which is far more likely to result in death. Yes it is saying it like that. They have been charged with murder as well, so you're saying you agree with the prosecutors, correct? How on earth do you think he had restraint and neck compression? Beach cruise? No it's not like saying that. If you restrain someone and they die because they had a bad heart are you a murderer? Some people have died just from being handcuffed or tasered, they have wigged out and died, are the police guilty of murder? If you dont understand the difference between restraining someone and shooting them then you are lost soul. You're either a troll or a sociopathic nutcase if you actually believe that. Pretty sure he didn’t need to restrain him by having a knee on his neck for 9 minutes. Exactly. Rusty, while in the instance you say, where someone is restrained, murder might be a loose term, but its the term that Minnesota uses to the third-degree. If I run someone over (a reckless act, like pinning someone down for nigh-on 10 minutes), and say, "Whoops, but the autopsy says that they died of a collapsed lung and they had asthma. I know I hit them in the chest with a car going 40km/h, but they had Asthma!" Are you saying that would be a valid defence in that scenario? No if kneel or stand on a person's neck for 8-10 minutes, there is a high probability that person will die, so that would likely count as murder or attempted murder. I dont know the probability of death if you lean on someones neck for 10 minutes, however its an important detail that he did not choke to death, he did not suffocate, his death was caused by a combination of three things; subdual, restrain and neck compression causing heart attack. So if you argue that the cop on neck is a murderer, then you have to apply the same standard to the other officers, including the one standing guard if he laid hands on him (subdual and restraint) during the arrest. You will then have to apply the same standard to every future scenario of someone dying in the process of being arrested, if you argue that pre existing health conditions plays no role in the culpability of the death. So the next time a police officer tasers someone and they die due to heart attack are you going to charge them with murder? What if they taser them twice, lets say the second zap is illegal but it causes death, is your argument that that cop deliberately tried to kill the victim? My argument here is that not that the officers arent culpable, rather the charge of murder requires specific INTENT to kill. You have to prove that all four offices intended to kill Floyd, that is the basis of murder, otherwise its something else like culpable homicide, manslaughter or criminal negligence. On the basis that Floyd had multiple health issues and drugs in his system that potentially contributed to his death then its possible that they will present as mitigating factors at trial. Once again I’m not saying that the Officers didnt KILL Floyd, they definitely contributed his death, however this isnt an all or nothing situation, and the prosecution are going to have a difficult time proving that all four officers set out to murder him. This is why we have courts and trained lawyers and judges that adjudicate on these issues, who understand the intrinsic complexities of such matters, rather than the mob who can only compute in black and white (figuratively speaking). I corrected your first sentence for you. That's all I'm going to read of that response, because if I have to play school teacher on your first sentence, your argument is flawed.
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dirk vanadidas
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Group: Forum Members
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Why is there. No BLM outcry for the death of David dorn ex copper killed by rioters. He was a man of colour
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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rusty
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 6.1K,
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+xWhy is there. No BLM outcry for the death of David dorn ex copper killed by rioters. He was a man of colour Cos it might distract people from the white cop bad, black people good narrative
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rusty
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 6.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBut having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions? In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence? Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. The official cause of death is that he died due to combination of restraint and compression of the neck, causing a heart attack and that he did not suffocate, an important detail. See, saying that is stretching a long bow. That's like saying someone got shot died of blood loss. Technically right, but they died because they got shot. Or, someone died because of head trauma in a car accident. No its not like saying that. If you read the autopsy the cause of death wasn't neck compression causing asphyxiation, it was subdual, restraint and neck compression causing heart attack. If the guy on the neck is guilty of murder, then so are the other cops because their actions of subduing and restraining Floyd caused his heart attack. Most acts of restraining and subduing someone would not lead to death, as is demonstrated by 99.99% of police arrests, unlike shooting someone which is far more likely to result in death. Yes it is saying it like that. They have been charged with murder as well, so you're saying you agree with the prosecutors, correct? How on earth do you think he had restraint and neck compression? Beach cruise? No it's not like saying that. If you restrain someone and they die because they had a bad heart are you a murderer? Some people have died just from being handcuffed or tasered, they have wigged out and died, are the police guilty of murder? If you dont understand the difference between restraining someone and shooting them then you are lost soul. You're either a troll or a sociopathic nutcase if you actually believe that. Pretty sure he didn’t need to restrain him by having a knee on his neck for 9 minutes. Exactly. Rusty, while in the instance you say, where someone is restrained, murder might be a loose term, but its the term that Minnesota uses to the third-degree. If I run someone over (a reckless act, like pinning someone down for nigh-on 10 minutes), and say, "Whoops, but the autopsy says that they died of a collapsed lung and they had asthma. I know I hit them in the chest with a car going 40km/h, but they had Asthma!" Are you saying that would be a valid defence in that scenario? No if kneel or stand on a person's neck for 8-10 minutes, there is a high probability that person will die, so that would likely count as murder or attempted murder. I dont know the probability of death if you lean on someones neck for 10 minutes, however its an important detail that he did not choke to death, he did not suffocate, his death was caused by a combination of three things; subdual, restrain and neck compression causing heart attack. So if you argue that the cop on neck is a murderer, then you have to apply the same standard to the other officers, including the one standing guard if he laid hands on him (subdual and restraint) during the arrest. You will then have to apply the same standard to every future scenario of someone dying in the process of being arrested, if you argue that pre existing health conditions plays no role in the culpability of the death. So the next time a police officer tasers someone and they die due to heart attack are you going to charge them with murder? What if they taser them twice, lets say the second zap is illegal but it causes death, is your argument that that cop deliberately tried to kill the victim? My argument here is that not that the officers arent culpable, rather the charge of murder requires specific INTENT to kill. You have to prove that all four offices intended to kill Floyd, that is the basis of murder, otherwise its something else like culpable homicide, manslaughter or criminal negligence. On the basis that Floyd had multiple health issues and drugs in his system that potentially contributed to his death then its possible that they will present as mitigating factors at trial. Once again I’m not saying that the Officers didnt KILL Floyd, they definitely contributed his death, however this isnt an all or nothing situation, and the prosecution are going to have a difficult time proving that all four officers set out to murder him. This is why we have courts and trained lawyers and judges that adjudicate on these issues, who understand the intrinsic complexities of such matters, rather than the mob who can only compute in black and white (figuratively speaking). I corrected your first sentence for you. That's all I'm going to read of that response, because if I have to play school teacher on your first sentence, your argument is flawed. Well go on school me Chuck Norris
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Captain Haddock
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.3K,
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+x+x+xI love this term "trump derangement syndrome". The conservatives that use it seem oblivious to the fact it can also be used to describe those who stand by the president despite it becoming painfully clear his end game is to divide the nation. I am still firm in my belief that Trump was elected on the back of a backlash against liberal PC/identity politics bullshit that even older liberals detest. These divisions are not Trumps fault, but that doesn't change the fact that the man is literally cancer of America, seeking to exacerbate said divisions to the point of destroying the nation so he can rule over the ashes. The conservatives/ liberals that use it seem oblivious to the fact it can also be used to describe those who stand by the president despite it becoming painfully clear his end game is to divide the nation.The above sentence could've been applied to at least the previous two presidents as well. During the Bush administration, pretty much all the same criticisms were levelled at GWB (racist, fascist, dangerous moron, only got where he did because of daddy etc) with the addition of being a warmonger. Then you had 8 years of Obama and it was the more paranoid right factions turn (Muslim sympathiser/ race-baiter/ communist/ looking to rule America by divide and conquer etc) You are confusing what the media said about these former Presidents with how these former Presidents acted whilst in office. Say what you want about Bush or Obama, few would successfully argue they didn't always attempt to bring the nation together on the big issues and in times of crisis. Take Bush with the Iraq War. People hated his guts for it but he never stopped trying to convince those against him that the war was justified That, first and foremost is the job of the president, to represent everyone, whether they like you or you like them. Trump is the exact opposite. He tactfully got elected by exacerbating political dividing lines and will continue doing it until it doesn't work anymore. I'd hardly say Bush represented everybody when it came to the Iraq war. The argument as to whether invade or not was a controversial one from the get-go to say the least. I'd also maintain that it's easier for people to be more objective about a President when they're not longer in office. When they're in office (regardless of what party they're representing) it's easy to find people claiming they are acting against the interests of American people/ behaving in a divisive manner etc.
There are only two intellectually honest debate tactics: (a) pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s facts, or (b) pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s logic. All other debate tactics are intellectually dishonest - John T. Reed
The Most Popular Presidential Candidate Of All Time (TM) cant go to a sports stadium in the country he presides over. Figure that one out...
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rusty
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 6.1K,
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The claims about Trump being divisive are overcooked. He tried to unite America with an ambitious economic agenda which was largely succeeding prior to Covid. He facilitated the economic conditions that have created the lowest black unemployment and crime rate for decades, something the mass media continues to ignore. Its hard to be seen as a unifying President when literally all his achievements are ignored by the media and everything he says and does is twisted into a hate crime. Democratic electoral success in 2020 largely depends on the African American community getting out to vote for Democratic candidates, as Trump has enjoyed the highest approval rate among black Americans for a Republican President than any of his predecessors, so its not surprising that the Democrats and their proxies in the media would try to hijack this latest incident to galvanise the black community against Trump. I suppose its very clever what they are doing but it remains to be seen whether it will be successful come November.
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