My Views are clear

smfc should have an aspiration to have over 1000 - 1500 juniors at $500-$700 per kid - whether they be directly with the club or affiliated via satelite clubs

I believe an academy should be the result of having a community ground model and then providing opportunity to the most tatented kids

Costing it would take me way too much energy - however $3,200 is overkill

smfc needs to aspire to achieve junior participant volume - I have discussed this with the board repeatedly - then costs can be absorbed and scholarship programs can be offered to the talent at a marginal price increase

I am extremely ambitious when it comes to smfc - however I don't like "exclusivity" - I believe it will be more damaging than the "ethnic perceptions" we have had to absorb the last decade

One thing the club has shown is its uniqueness by having a capacity to design and execute in such a tight timeframe - industry leader - however in my view the club's objective is ill-directed

small market = small exposure regardless of the comp we play in


Edited by chris: 13/10/2012 11:04:41 PM

Then I'm sure u would have a preferred model on how the National comp should be run, does it include relegation /promotion ?

Oh
And cost it.

No offence but there are too many keyboard warriors who offer critiques but NO SOLUTIONS

Chris table a SMFC preferred model u would like to see..that grows membership, attracts sponsors, developed players, and I presume u would like to see your team play at the highest level..
We are all curious

Read the thread one_toouch - no one has said it's not a great initiative - in fact I think that I said that as well. The points are more about whether the club should have the Rolls Royce ( which most decent players can't afford ) and now the fact that they gone ahead with it without all members across it considering the APL league is not going to start until 2014 - that means there will be a year where the club has made a decent amount of dollars depending on expenses off course. You are obviously an advocate - perhaps you know more than most - care to be provide more detail on the where the dollars generated will go in 2013 season?

I have spoken with 3 Board memebrs - provided my views and indicative concerns backed up by data and the response has been just wait and see - well myself and other members (more than 3 LOL) have some serious concerns - our concerns are centralised on protecting this valuable asset called smfc - I am a third generation member and have a right to raise concerns based on available data

Meanwhile - the club keeps spending cash on a model that is not finalised - I guess the key is transperancy - at the moment there is hardly any - just spend - and reassurances formalised with a wink

One thing is for certain - certain board members do not enjoy being challenged....what a shame - true leaders thrive on challenge

Edited by chris: 13/10/2012 10:32:02 PM

Well done SMFC, if all HAL clubs and at least another 10 clubs follow this initiative, we could see some great things for Aus football.

For those that are bagging this initiative, it's time to embrace the change and become a leader like SMFC or lag behind and preish into oblivion.

My views will remain based on what has been delivered by the FFV - what has been posted is official - everything else is speculation and my views will remain until such a time when/if their official stance has been altered - afterall it is the current model the FFV are working of when they are addressing the football community statewide during their info sessions - however Our model does not match up with the FFVs at all ATM

What a shame I don't know who you are - nor do I care to find out - nor do I attack the man rather than the ball

I guess the AGM will give us a true indication of who is for and against it

Happy to back down if my views represent the minority - are you?


Edited by chris: 13/10/2012 10:42:12 PM

repeat thread

Edited by chris: 13/10/2012 10:19:22 PM

Well Chris - you bring up some valid points about the clubs structure and you are obviously Blue and White through and through! I'm not sure that I agree with their approach as it is contrary to developing the best in the region,but you bring up points regarding a members based club that has made decisions without the members being informed. I assume that you are a member - have you asked the question of the board or those in charge?

Mr Chris M......s,
Firstly, 3 people on a SMFC forum disagreeing are not half the club. Inexperienced over-opinionated individuals seem to be plentiful in our code.
SMFC aspires to play at the national level via the Aust Premier League.

Just participatory community clubs have a place in our code. However a club like Smfc with its heritage, infrastructure and ambition need to aim higher. The direction of the club is obviously to play at the highest possible level.

I'd be surprised if a majority of their members wish otherwise..
The NCR are a work in progress with FFV announcing its preferred transition model soon. So don't get too hung upon what they have published 'for discussion'

Point is south will appeal solely to a niche (extreme Minority) market - not good

I have serious concerns and this direction has split the club in 2 and media statements like this compounds things even further

Issues: South will isolate itself from the football community and tag itself to elitist - question is at what cost – from where I am standing right now the exchange rate does not look good

Football clubs are measured by members – clubs with 1000 kids will be stronger than clubs with 100 kids any day of the week and at any level

As for the presentation – all very glossy but no carriculum data - just some mug coming from Brazil with a significant price on his head (who is he?)

I am more interested in data – there seems to be a huge upfront investment – what is the plan to sustain costs and RIO – how will it be measured and by whom?

On the last 5-10 years - what exactly is it that makes south so priveledged to be so elite?
Football at all levels should be inclusive – not exclusive

There appears to be 2 seperate columns of thought here

What smfc's aspirations are and the projected model and what the FFV Proposal which have launched on the following site - under the guidance of the FFA

http://www.footballfedvic.com.au/fileadmin/user_upload/Competitions/NCR/NCR_Presentation_FFV_July_2012.pdf

Below are the Key details regarding the NCR from the FFV website that challenges smfc's direction

Proposed Framework - STRUCTURE

•Can only have one team in each age bracket
•Cannot field sides in community competitions or SSF competitions
•For Junior age brackets under 18 and down recruitment must come from a designated zone (or part of a zone in the case of Wimmera South Coast and Goulburn North East)
•Junior players (u18 and down): To be eligible for selection talented player identification is based on the community club they play for NOT their residential postcode
•When an u18 participant becomes a playing member they automatically become a legal member of the club
–Therefore all junior players (all parents or guardians) have the right to have a say in how the talented player club is run


New structure would require clubs who wish to participate in second-tier competition to have the teams identified below
•Must meet the NCR & FFV team requirements and/or have a plan to meet them over the Licence period
–SAP Training Programs (9 – 11 years boys and girls)
–Under 12 Boys, Under 13 Boys, Under 14 Boys, Under 15 Boys,
Under 16 Boys–Under 18 Boys, Under 20 Men, Open Men
–Under 12 Girls, Under 14 Girls, Under 16 Girls
–Under 18 Girls, Open Women Accredited

Proposed Framework

•No promotion and relegation from/to the community leagues while the licensed clubs are meeting NCR requirements

–Promotion and relegation may exist between the 2 divisions within the League for all age brackets to ensure the best teams play against the best at each age level or
–The 2 divisions are based on geographical division ie East Victoria, West Victoria

•As the sport grows new licences may be added to the new structure, but not within the first licence period
•No other semi professional leagues in Victoria

Licence fee:

•Estimated $50k

–Based on current fee structures for clubs entering teams in VPL/WPL and teams in the identified age brackets

Junior fees:

•clubs will be able to charge a fee for junior players

•Budget and fees for junior programs will need to be submitted to FFV for approval
•Based on information collected from VCL clubs and extrapolating this to a 40 week season the cost of the program would be approximately $110k.

–This is dependant on cost structures of the club in terms of venue costs, administration costs, coaching payments etc.

•Estimated cost based on VCL model for 40 week season is between $700 and $1,000 per junior player
•Scholarships should be available to talented players unable to afford fees

Senior Teams Costs:

•Men‟s and Women‟s senior teams will participate in semi-professional Leagues
•Points Cap to apply to both Leagues will help reduce player payments, to be set at 200 points (currently VPL clubs operating on 280 to 330 points)
•Accredited NCR clubs will receive a greater share of training compensation
•NCR clubs ability to earn revenue from canteen sales, gate takings, fundraising and sponsorship will remain in the control of clubs
•Costs associated with running senior teams in the NCR will be similar to costs associated with the VPL.
–This is dependant on cost structures of the club in terms of venue costs, administration costs, coaching payments, player payments etc.
Accredited 1st

____________________________________________________________
Where do I start ......
Firstly - under who's guidance has the club decided to charge $3,200 per kid when the FFV has clearly stated no more than $1000 max per player?

The FFV will not pass this - one of the catalysts for the FFA to launch the review that led to the NCR program was that Junior fees nationally were scrutinised - - - -remember? - or have we forgotten already?

An FFV officer has already stated at an information session that if south think they can charge $3,200 per child then thay are kidding themselves

Secondly - FFA Guidelines are that the following age groups will have 1 team only - 12s-14s-16s-18s-youth(20s) and seniors (u25s+) = so this means atleast 1 in 2 of the 300 registered players will miss out

Thirdly - Each elite club that represents its zone can only receive players registered within that zone up to U18s

I can go on and on......point is smfc have launched an elitist program for next season on the back of the NCR program which is still in a proposal stage and currently going through a consultation period

Furthermore: The 2 planograms (smfc's and FFV's) have a monumental disconnect between them - our direction and the FFV's are 2 different pathways alltogether - there is no resemblance between the 2

This begs the question - under who's advocacy has the club gone and employed specialist coaches etc for next season and at what cost?

Again - where is the risk assessment? - This will marginalise the club at all levels - even seniors which will have a silly points system

We do not even know if we will be accepted in this program - the FFV program is still being built - but I guarantee you there are certain elements that are not Negotiable from the FFA HQ

What concerns me the most is that the model south has released for next season resembles a privatised institutianal model - yet smfc is a public asset

My View: This is an iscolated plan and nothing to do with thr NCR - more to the point - I have concerns smfc may have used the NCR as a convenient excuse to launch its own carriculum - and to a small minority niche market



Edited by chris: 13/10/2012 10:37:45 PM

Boring. Smfc promising world and delivering nothing in vain attempt to impress ffa

Won't be beaten in Perth, stadium capacity reduced

Also 17,000 Adelaide United v Sout Melbourne at Hindmarsh 2004...record for a domestic game at Hindmarsh...im amazed that hasnt been beaten yet..surely Del Piero will.

18k in 1998 against South Melbourne.

Cant for the life of me recall what your stadium is called these days but South still shares the record crowd at the venue...16,500 something...was always a hot ticket when Ange and the lads would travel to Perth...and we mostly got thumped:lol:

Geelong has about as much chance as South...nudda

SMFC will never get HAL licence. It's to closely tied with an ethnic group for FFA to allow it.
Geelong will be next, however not for another 7+ years.

I think that we have all said that it is a great initiative. They do have a lot of good people working there gratus - same with most clubs. I've read the NCR preso - it is assuming much les than that. There will be no comp in 2013. If the sums are right then they are paying coaches over 100K . As I said - baby steps and they will no doubt review it for 2014 when the FFV tells them to.

Have no argument with you on any of that. There's certainly an issue regarding less privileged families being unable to put their kids into the scheme no matter how talented they are. It's a balancing act - hopefully the less financially blessed will find good training at 'smaller' clubs, or via the NTC, etc.

Look I guess we can all offer our opinions and be keyboard experts..
They are doing the hard work of backing their judgement & adopting NCR in full.
They are a members based club, it's not a business,. A great deal of volunteers work hard down there (as in many clubs).... Difference is they are professionalising their youth program to try & improve the quality of players ..they are paying 5-6 full time coaches... NCR stipulates finances must be audited...how can someone say money is going to seniors when they have adopted NCR... People need to read NCR.

Most clubs can't be bothered to try & take the next step....it's too much work !!

Unfortunately if we believe that a pay and play system is going to create the best talent. Everyone agrees on the initiative by SMFC - wonderful and progressive, but not everyone can afford a Rolls Royce. Yes there are those that pay for private academies etc but again not always the best and this is merely an academy that has planted itself in South ( River Plate ) I dare say that it would have been better to take some baby steps towards the dream This is not the concept that Hans Berger wants to create - have a look at his presentation on you tube to Football Queensland. In fact I would be interested to see how Football Queensland has organised their clubs as they will be creating their new league for season 2013. Anyone know?

Got no problem with them coming into A-league as a broadbased club, out of all ethnic NSL clubs South Melbourne had the best crowds, and unlike Heart, South Melbourne would represent a different area to what Victory already do(hint to Heart)

The question is though would a promotion to A_league end up just taking supporters from Victory or Heart?

Also another thing, wernt South and Perth Glory big rivals in the NSL? if this could continue into A-league the more rivalries the better.

Edited by aussie4ever4: 13/10/2012 02:04:21 PM

Doesnt really say anything about the program apart from its 4-5 days a week and has an experienced coach.

Saw this on Soccer F, good argument

'On average parents pay this amount annually anyway via, club fees, then privateer academies, then holiday clinics, private tuition etc etc...

Internationally football is played/trained 10-11 mths. 4 sessions a week.
Has anyone noticed how our national youth teams are going backwards in performance...

Best to provide the national curriculum under one roof, with professional coaches.
Until money flows down from FFA /FFV... There is little choice but parents to fund programs.

Opinions are easy... At least SMFC is pushing the envelope, implementing a program, and moving in the right direction.'

Also
Here is the link to the clubs brochure for the program

http://issuu.com/smfc/docs/2013-smfc-youth-program-online?mode=window&backgroundColor=%23222222

4 days days a week, 48 weeks of the year is a fantastic move by South.

The $3400 is highly questionable though. That is a vast amount of that must be going on coaching. Assuming 18 kids per squad (U12 - U20) that is $633,500 in income. If you include there sub-juniors in that, it will increase to around $835,000. That is before any other revenue (ie Sponsorships)

We would assume that the basic costs (FFA/FFV Fees, Strip, Trophy, Team Entry, Refer, Ground Hire, Utilities etc) would come to no more than $200 per player ($65K total) so that leaves about $770K in coaching and other value add costs.

Even with a full time Technical and Assistant technical director this seems to leave a lot of money flowing into the senior clubs coffers.

They said they were happy with the initiative shown by South and their willingness to engage with the NCR process. I'm not suggesting the FFV were happy with all the particulars though - they certainly weren't happy with the costs of this program, and were pretty forthright in saying that it wouldn't pass muster under their plans for 2014.