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sydneyfc1987
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clockwork orange wrote:Benjamin wrote:
So I ask one more time... If ethnics are to blame for holding the game back from the late 40s to the turn of the century... Who is to blame for holding the game back from the mid 19th century to the end of WWII when it was booming in South America and Europe?
ALP press release just announced that it's Tony Abbott. I knew it!
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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GGfortythree
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Benjamin wrote:
So I ask one more time... If ethnics are to blame for holding the game back from the late 40s to the turn of the century... Who is to blame for holding the game back from the mid 19th century to the end of WWII when it was booming in South America and Europe?
The fact that the game had no mainstream roots here, just like in the US.
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Benjamin
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gabgabgab39 wrote:Benjamin wrote:
So I ask one more time... If ethnics are to blame for holding the game back from the late 40s to the turn of the century... Who is to blame for holding the game back from the mid 19th century to the end of WWII when it was booming in South America and Europe?
The fact that the game had no mainstream roots here, just like in the US. In other words - no one was interested, then someone showed an interest, so lets blame the very people who showed an interest for holding the game back. The reality is that it took a long long time before mainstream Australia got interested - and to this day, even with a broadbased league and the terrible terrible ethnics no longer strangling the game, it's still a minority sport, buried in several states by a parochial game, and in a couple of others by a game played (seriously) in only a dozen countries.
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GGfortythree
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Benjamin wrote:gabgabgab39 wrote:Benjamin wrote:
So I ask one more time... If ethnics are to blame for holding the game back from the late 40s to the turn of the century... Who is to blame for holding the game back from the mid 19th century to the end of WWII when it was booming in South America and Europe?
The fact that the game had no mainstream roots here, just like in the US. In other words - no one was interested, then someone showed an interest, so lets blame the very people who showed an interest for holding the game back. The reality is that it took a long long time before mainstream Australia got interested - and to this day, even with a broadbased league and the terrible terrible ethnics no longer strangling the game, it's still a minority sport, buried in several states by a parochial game, and in a couple of others by a game played (seriously) in only a dozen countries. Yes but now it's a minority sport that everyone knows about and everyone can support Edited by Gabgabgab39: 30/1/2013 12:52:14 PM
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paulc
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gabgabgab39 wrote:Benjamin wrote:gabgabgab39 wrote:Benjamin wrote:
So I ask one more time... If ethnics are to blame for holding the game back from the late 40s to the turn of the century... Who is to blame for holding the game back from the mid 19th century to the end of WWII when it was booming in South America and Europe?
The fact that the game had no mainstream roots here, just like in the US. In other words - no one was interested, then someone showed an interest, so lets blame the very people who showed an interest for holding the game back. The reality is that it took a long long time before mainstream Australia got interested - and to this day, even with a broadbased league and the terrible terrible ethnics no longer strangling the game, it's still a minority sport, buried in several states by a parochial game, and in a couple of others by a game played (seriously) in only a dozen countries. Yes but now it's a minority support that everyone knows about and everyone can support With 3 times the fans and 10 times the interest.
In a resort somewhere
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Benjamin
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gabgabgab39 wrote:Benjamin wrote:gabgabgab39 wrote:Benjamin wrote:
So I ask one more time... If ethnics are to blame for holding the game back from the late 40s to the turn of the century... Who is to blame for holding the game back from the mid 19th century to the end of WWII when it was booming in South America and Europe?
The fact that the game had no mainstream roots here, just like in the US. In other words - no one was interested, then someone showed an interest, so lets blame the very people who showed an interest for holding the game back. The reality is that it took a long long time before mainstream Australia got interested - and to this day, even with a broadbased league and the terrible terrible ethnics no longer strangling the game, it's still a minority sport, buried in several states by a parochial game, and in a couple of others by a game played (seriously) in only a dozen countries. Yes but now it's a minority support that everyone knows about and everyone can support Indeed. No argument there. But that doesn't mean you blame those who carried the game for holding it back. That's the thing that causes offense and division. It's good that all these people over 'here' have top level football they can follow, but it's sad that those people over 'there' have seen their clubs pushed aside to facilitate this growth. Progress? Yes. But I don't believe it was required. A couple of small tweaks and all the complaints could have been avoided, and could be avoided going forward. Which brings us back to this thread... As I've said many times... If an old club gets its shit together and puts a good bid together - business plan, finances, facilities, etc., and the FFA were to judge that bid on its merits, rather than black-listing it purely for it's heritage issues, the message sent to every club from the top to the very bottom is clear... You CAN be involved, so long as you play the game properly. Imagine the positive changes it could create in the game.
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GGfortythree
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Benjamin wrote:gabgabgab39 wrote:Benjamin wrote:gabgabgab39 wrote:Benjamin wrote:
So I ask one more time... If ethnics are to blame for holding the game back from the late 40s to the turn of the century... Who is to blame for holding the game back from the mid 19th century to the end of WWII when it was booming in South America and Europe?
The fact that the game had no mainstream roots here, just like in the US. In other words - no one was interested, then someone showed an interest, so lets blame the very people who showed an interest for holding the game back. The reality is that it took a long long time before mainstream Australia got interested - and to this day, even with a broadbased league and the terrible terrible ethnics no longer strangling the game, it's still a minority sport, buried in several states by a parochial game, and in a couple of others by a game played (seriously) in only a dozen countries. Yes but now it's a minority support that everyone knows about and everyone can support Indeed. No argument there. But that doesn't mean you blame those who carried the game for holding it back. That's the thing that causes offense and division. It's good that all these people over 'here' have top level football they can follow, but it's sad that those people over 'there' have seen their clubs pushed aside to facilitate this growth. Progress? Yes. But I don't believe it was required. A couple of small tweaks and all the complaints could have been avoided, and could be avoided going forward. Which brings us back to this thread... As I've said many times... If an old club gets its shit together and puts a good bid together - business plan, finances, facilities, etc., and the FFA were to judge that bid on its merits, rather than black-listing it purely for it's heritage issues, the message sent to every club from the top to the very bottom is clear... You CAN be involved, so long as you play the game properly. Imagine the positive changes it could create in the game. The game needed to be completely redone. The NSL in it's form at the time was never going to be truly successful and the FFA decided to rectify this by scrapping the NSL to make way for the A-league.Did They throw the baby out with the bathwater? In some ways Yes, but the game in this country has never been stronger and it is all because of the sacrifices that were made.
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Benjamin
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gabgabgab39 wrote:Benjamin wrote:gabgabgab39 wrote:Benjamin wrote:gabgabgab39 wrote:Benjamin wrote:
So I ask one more time... If ethnics are to blame for holding the game back from the late 40s to the turn of the century... Who is to blame for holding the game back from the mid 19th century to the end of WWII when it was booming in South America and Europe?
The fact that the game had no mainstream roots here, just like in the US. In other words - no one was interested, then someone showed an interest, so lets blame the very people who showed an interest for holding the game back. The reality is that it took a long long time before mainstream Australia got interested - and to this day, even with a broadbased league and the terrible terrible ethnics no longer strangling the game, it's still a minority sport, buried in several states by a parochial game, and in a couple of others by a game played (seriously) in only a dozen countries. Yes but now it's a minority support that everyone knows about and everyone can support Indeed. No argument there. But that doesn't mean you blame those who carried the game for holding it back. That's the thing that causes offense and division. It's good that all these people over 'here' have top level football they can follow, but it's sad that those people over 'there' have seen their clubs pushed aside to facilitate this growth. Progress? Yes. But I don't believe it was required. A couple of small tweaks and all the complaints could have been avoided, and could be avoided going forward. Which brings us back to this thread... As I've said many times... If an old club gets its shit together and puts a good bid together - business plan, finances, facilities, etc., and the FFA were to judge that bid on its merits, rather than black-listing it purely for it's heritage issues, the message sent to every club from the top to the very bottom is clear... You CAN be involved, so long as you play the game properly. Imagine the positive changes it could create in the game. The game needed to be completely redone. The NSL in it's form at the time was never going to be truly successful and the FFA decided to rectify this by scrapping the NSL to make way for the A-league.Did They throw the baby out with the bathwater? In some ways Yes, but the game in this country has never been stronger and it is all because of the sacrifices that were made. Agree that the game is stronger as a result of the actions of the FFA - have never questioned that - my point is that it would be stronger still if everyone was pushing in the same direction, from bottom to top, and it wouldn't take much to do that.
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GGfortythree
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Benjamin wrote:gabgabgab39 wrote:Benjamin wrote:gabgabgab39 wrote:Benjamin wrote:gabgabgab39 wrote:Benjamin wrote:
So I ask one more time... If ethnics are to blame for holding the game back from the late 40s to the turn of the century... Who is to blame for holding the game back from the mid 19th century to the end of WWII when it was booming in South America and Europe?
The fact that the game had no mainstream roots here, just like in the US. In other words - no one was interested, then someone showed an interest, so lets blame the very people who showed an interest for holding the game back. The reality is that it took a long long time before mainstream Australia got interested - and to this day, even with a broadbased league and the terrible terrible ethnics no longer strangling the game, it's still a minority sport, buried in several states by a parochial game, and in a couple of others by a game played (seriously) in only a dozen countries. Yes but now it's a minority support that everyone knows about and everyone can support Indeed. No argument there. But that doesn't mean you blame those who carried the game for holding it back. That's the thing that causes offense and division. It's good that all these people over 'here' have top level football they can follow, but it's sad that those people over 'there' have seen their clubs pushed aside to facilitate this growth. Progress? Yes. But I don't believe it was required. A couple of small tweaks and all the complaints could have been avoided, and could be avoided going forward. Which brings us back to this thread... As I've said many times... If an old club gets its shit together and puts a good bid together - business plan, finances, facilities, etc., and the FFA were to judge that bid on its merits, rather than black-listing it purely for it's heritage issues, the message sent to every club from the top to the very bottom is clear... You CAN be involved, so long as you play the game properly. Imagine the positive changes it could create in the game. The game needed to be completely redone. The NSL in it's form at the time was never going to be truly successful and the FFA decided to rectify this by scrapping the NSL to make way for the A-league.Did They throw the baby out with the bathwater? In some ways Yes, but the game in this country has never been stronger and it is all because of the sacrifices that were made. Agree that the game is stronger as a result of the actions of the FFA - have never questioned that - my point is that it would be stronger still if everyone was pushing in the same direction, from bottom to top, and it wouldn't take much to do that. They tried that for a while there. Remember the Lakers?
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Heart_fan
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Benjamin wrote:gabgabgab39 wrote:Benjamin wrote:gabgabgab39 wrote:Benjamin wrote:gabgabgab39 wrote:Benjamin wrote:
So I ask one more time... If ethnics are to blame for holding the game back from the late 40s to the turn of the century... Who is to blame for holding the game back from the mid 19th century to the end of WWII when it was booming in South America and Europe?
The fact that the game had no mainstream roots here, just like in the US. In other words - no one was interested, then someone showed an interest, so lets blame the very people who showed an interest for holding the game back. The reality is that it took a long long time before mainstream Australia got interested - and to this day, even with a broadbased league and the terrible terrible ethnics no longer strangling the game, it's still a minority sport, buried in several states by a parochial game, and in a couple of others by a game played (seriously) in only a dozen countries. Yes but now it's a minority support that everyone knows about and everyone can support Indeed. No argument there. But that doesn't mean you blame those who carried the game for holding it back. That's the thing that causes offense and division. It's good that all these people over 'here' have top level football they can follow, but it's sad that those people over 'there' have seen their clubs pushed aside to facilitate this growth. Progress? Yes. But I don't believe it was required. A couple of small tweaks and all the complaints could have been avoided, and could be avoided going forward. Which brings us back to this thread... As I've said many times... If an old club gets its shit together and puts a good bid together - business plan, finances, facilities, etc., and the FFA were to judge that bid on its merits, rather than black-listing it purely for it's heritage issues, the message sent to every club from the top to the very bottom is clear... You CAN be involved, so long as you play the game properly. Imagine the positive changes it could create in the game. The game needed to be completely redone. The NSL in it's form at the time was never going to be truly successful and the FFA decided to rectify this by scrapping the NSL to make way for the A-league.Did They throw the baby out with the bathwater? In some ways Yes, but the game in this country has never been stronger and it is all because of the sacrifices that were made. Agree that the game is stronger as a result of the actions of the FFA - have never questioned that - my point is that it would be stronger still if everyone was pushing in the same direction, from bottom to top, and it wouldn't take much to do that. U serious?? You really expect people to actually work together for the common good? Your dreaming. There's far too much self interest and politics with every move made. The constant game of undermining played by a few aggrieved parties will continue far into the future. Like it or not, the history of our game in this country is littered with nothing but bad news, politics, alleged corruption and everything in between. Starting a fresh is what everyone should do, but that's a dreamland scenario that is not going to happen.
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Red_or_Dead
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Plus, I'm sure the FFA would want a team with the diversity to attract new supporters and fans from all over Melbourne (who don't already go for MHFC or MVFC) and from different backgrounds, heritages and cultures!
As far as I see it, Southern Cross FC's reach would've been restricted to the ex-South Melbourne Hellas/Lakers supporters who never jumped on the Victory or Heart bandwagon! Even if you round up all the Heiderlberg, Richmond, Oakleigh, Bentleigh, Northcote, etc supporters where are NEW supporters going to come from? WHO will SXFC reach out to and entice to become a part of them instead of Victory (the powerhouse) and Heart (the choice). EVERYONE will still see SXFC as a Greek backed team which will minimise their growth AND that of the A-LEAGUE's!!
I really don't see this happening for another generation, at least! It took Heart 5 years to enter the A-League and give Melburnians a choice so I really don't think there will be another "Melburnian" team for a very long time...Geelong is a different story.
SXFC's only hope to play in the highest domestic competition is to wait for Promotion/Relegation, which probably won't be until 2030+.
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Benjamin
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Heart_fan wrote:U serious?? You really expect people to actually work together for the common good? Your dreaming.
I'm saying that if you make football the focus - then football wins. When you allow other things to dominate, then they will. And yes, that works both ways. I have just as many problems as with the attitude of die-hard old-schoolers as I do with the hardcore anti-ethnics.
There's far too much self interest and politics with every move made. The constant game of undermining played by a few aggrieved parties will continue far into the future.
Aggrieved being the key word. Provide a pathway and you destroy the negative argument.
Like it or not, the history of our game in this country is littered with nothing but bad news, politics, alleged corruption and everything in between. Starting a fresh is what everyone should do, but that's a dreamland scenario that is not going to happen. Fair enough argument - but the same argument works for closing down the A-League or any member franchise, and re-booting again to take it to another level.
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Benjamin
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Red_or_Dead wrote:Plus, I'm sure the FFA would want a team with the diversity to attract new supporters and fans from all over Melbourne (who don't already go for MHFC or MVFC) and from different backgrounds, heritages and cultures!
As far as I see it, Southern Cross FC's reach would've been restricted to the ex-South Melbourne Hellas/Lakers supporters who never jumped on the Victory or Heart bandwagon! Even if you round up all the Heiderlberg, Richmond, Oakleigh, Bentleigh, Northcote, etc supporters where are NEW supporters going to come from? WHO will SXFC reach out to and entice to become a part of them instead of Victory (the powerhouse) and Heart (the choice). EVERYONE will still see SXFC as a Greek backed team which will minimise their growth AND that of the A-LEAGUE's!!
I really don't see this happening for another generation, at least! It took Heart 5 years to enter the A-League and give Melburnians a choice so I really don't think there will be another "Melburnian" team for a very long time...Geelong is a different story.
SXFC's only hope to play in the highest domestic competition is to wait for Promotion/Relegation, which probably won't be until 2030+. The only reason for the 5 year wait for a second team was the FFA's mandate that it should be one team per city for 5 years. As for who else SXFC would engage - it is a more difficult issue now that Heart exists. If SXFC/SMFC came in AS WELL as Heart (rather than instead) I would assume the marketing plan would be as suggested earlier in the thread - to specifically target the southern region of the city, focusing on building geographical links with potential supporters irrelevant of ethnicity. With the moves at the SMFC academy, there's clearly going to be a more South American flavour to the club in future - so one would assume this could be used as a marketing element as well.
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Benjamin
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gabgabgab39 wrote:They tried that for a while there. Remember the Lakers? In the mid-90s, with Soccer Australia unable to find it's arse with both hands, attempts were made to change the league on a cosmetic level. Didn't work, was never going to work. It's not what I was suggesting. I had no problem with the 're-booting' of the league - the formation of new teams - the far more professional approach to both the members and the administration... All that was required (in my opinion) to 'keep the peace' was a simple set of criteria that would have guaranteed entry to the A-League for all existing clubs who could fulfill them. 1 - can you get $X in the bank by date X? 2 - have you got the business plan to generate $X per year? Honestly - of all the members of the final NSL season, only a couple would have been able to match those requirements. But in one fell swoop the arguments against the FFA/A-League would have been wiped out. By saying "you have to have this, AND this, AND give us your name, AND change your ownership structure, AND THEN we'll compare your bid to the others and pick the ones we like the best - and offer no explanation as to why this one was chosen over that one" they established an environment in which anyone who was locked out would have an excuse to be upset.
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Red_or_Dead
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Benjamin wrote:Red_or_Dead wrote:Plus, I'm sure the FFA would want a team with the diversity to attract new supporters and fans from all over Melbourne (who don't already go for MHFC or MVFC) and from different backgrounds, heritages and cultures!
As far as I see it, Southern Cross FC's reach would've been restricted to the ex-South Melbourne Hellas/Lakers supporters who never jumped on the Victory or Heart bandwagon! Even if you round up all the Heiderlberg, Richmond, Oakleigh, Bentleigh, Northcote, etc supporters where are NEW supporters going to come from? WHO will SXFC reach out to and entice to become a part of them instead of Victory (the powerhouse) and Heart (the choice). EVERYONE will still see SXFC as a Greek backed team which will minimise their growth AND that of the A-LEAGUE's!!
I really don't see this happening for another generation, at least! It took Heart 5 years to enter the A-League and give Melburnians a choice so I really don't think there will be another "Melburnian" team for a very long time...Geelong is a different story.
SXFC's only hope to play in the highest domestic competition is to wait for Promotion/Relegation, which probably won't be until 2030+. The only reason for the 5 year wait for a second team was the FFA's mandate that it should be one team per city for 5 years. As for who else SXFC would engage - it is a more difficult issue now that Heart exists. If SXFC/SMFC came in AS WELL as Heart (rather than instead) I would assume the marketing plan would be as suggested earlier in the thread - to specifically target the southern region of the city, focusing on building geographical links with potential supporters irrelevant of ethnicity. With the moves at the SMFC academy, there's clearly going to be a more South American flavour to the club in future - so one would assume this could be used as a marketing element as well. BUT, SXFC did not come in the same time as Heart and considering there was a 5 year wait for a second team, I'm guessing it'll be a lot lot longer for a third side. The fact that Heart HAS come in, you gotta wonder who's left for SXFC IF they were to ever join the A-League...you need a mainstream team who can represent a diverse fan base and currently I don't think SMFC is quite there. Hey why doesn't SMFC change their name to SXFC now just to get the ball rolling? It could be the same team, same colours, same location, just rebranded. Many companies do it to refresh their look and feel to attract new customers ;)
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chris
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Red_or_Dead wrote:Benjamin wrote:Red_or_Dead wrote:Plus, I'm sure the FFA would want a team with the diversity to attract new supporters and fans from all over Melbourne (who don't already go for MHFC or MVFC) and from different backgrounds, heritages and cultures!
As far as I see it, Southern Cross FC's reach would've been restricted to the ex-South Melbourne Hellas/Lakers supporters who never jumped on the Victory or Heart bandwagon! Even if you round up all the Heiderlberg, Richmond, Oakleigh, Bentleigh, Northcote, etc supporters where are NEW supporters going to come from? WHO will SXFC reach out to and entice to become a part of them instead of Victory (the powerhouse) and Heart (the choice). EVERYONE will still see SXFC as a Greek backed team which will minimise their growth AND that of the A-LEAGUE's!!
I really don't see this happening for another generation, at least! It took Heart 5 years to enter the A-League and give Melburnians a choice so I really don't think there will be another "Melburnian" team for a very long time...Geelong is a different story.
SXFC's only hope to play in the highest domestic competition is to wait for Promotion/Relegation, which probably won't be until 2030+. The only reason for the 5 year wait for a second team was the FFA's mandate that it should be one team per city for 5 years. As for who else SXFC would engage - it is a more difficult issue now that Heart exists. If SXFC/SMFC came in AS WELL as Heart (rather than instead) I would assume the marketing plan would be as suggested earlier in the thread - to specifically target the southern region of the city, focusing on building geographical links with potential supporters irrelevant of ethnicity. With the moves at the SMFC academy, there's clearly going to be a more South American flavour to the club in future - so one would assume this could be used as a marketing element as well. BUT, SXFC did not come in the same time as Heart and considering there was a 5 year wait for a second team, I'm guessing it'll be a lot lot longer for a third side. The fact that Heart HAS come in, you gotta wonder who's left for SXFC IF they were to ever join the A-League...you need a mainstream team who can represent a diverse fan base and currently I don't think SMFC is quite there. Hey why doesn't SMFC change their name to SXFC now just to get the ball rolling? It could be the same team, same colours, same location, just rebranded. Many companies do it to refresh their look and feel to attract new customers ;) If anyone requires a refresh its the heart Seriously though I am not convinced the Mheart have captured an alternative market to the victory but rather a similar market to the victory that did not follow the victory and a portion that did follow the victory ( I hope that makes sence) South would bring in a different option that would complement the existing teams
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chris
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Red_or_Dead wrote:Benjamin wrote:Red_or_Dead wrote:Plus, I'm sure the FFA would want a team with the diversity to attract new supporters and fans from all over Melbourne (who don't already go for MHFC or MVFC) and from different backgrounds, heritages and cultures!
As far as I see it, Southern Cross FC's reach would've been restricted to the ex-South Melbourne Hellas/Lakers supporters who never jumped on the Victory or Heart bandwagon! Even if you round up all the Heiderlberg, Richmond, Oakleigh, Bentleigh, Northcote, etc supporters where are NEW supporters going to come from? WHO will SXFC reach out to and entice to become a part of them instead of Victory (the powerhouse) and Heart (the choice). EVERYONE will still see SXFC as a Greek backed team which will minimise their growth AND that of the A-LEAGUE's!!
I really don't see this happening for another generation, at least! It took Heart 5 years to enter the A-League and give Melburnians a choice so I really don't think there will be another "Melburnian" team for a very long time...Geelong is a different story.
SXFC's only hope to play in the highest domestic competition is to wait for Promotion/Relegation, which probably won't be until 2030+. The only reason for the 5 year wait for a second team was the FFA's mandate that it should be one team per city for 5 years. As for who else SXFC would engage - it is a more difficult issue now that Heart exists. If SXFC/SMFC came in AS WELL as Heart (rather than instead) I would assume the marketing plan would be as suggested earlier in the thread - to specifically target the southern region of the city, focusing on building geographical links with potential supporters irrelevant of ethnicity. With the moves at the SMFC academy, there's clearly going to be a more South American flavour to the club in future - so one would assume this could be used as a marketing element as well. BUT, SXFC did not come in the same time as Heart and considering there was a 5 year wait for a second team, I'm guessing it'll be a lot lot longer for a third side. The fact that Heart HAS come in, you gotta wonder who's left for SXFC IF they were to ever join the A-League...you need a mainstream team who can represent a diverse fan base and currently I don't think SMFC is quite there. Hey why doesn't SMFC change their name to SXFC now just to get the ball rolling? It could be the same team, same colours, same location, just rebranded. Many companies do it to refresh their look and feel to attract new customers ;) If anyone requires a refresh its the heart Seriously though I am not convinced the Mheart have captured an alternative market to the victory but rather a similar market to the victory that did not follow the victory and a portion that did follow the victory ( I hope that makes sence) South would bring in a different option that would complement the existing teams
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lardface
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chris wrote:Red_or_Dead wrote:Benjamin wrote:Red_or_Dead wrote:Plus, I'm sure the FFA would want a team with the diversity to attract new supporters and fans from all over Melbourne (who don't already go for MHFC or MVFC) and from different backgrounds, heritages and cultures!
As far as I see it, Southern Cross FC's reach would've been restricted to the ex-South Melbourne Hellas/Lakers supporters who never jumped on the Victory or Heart bandwagon! Even if you round up all the Heiderlberg, Richmond, Oakleigh, Bentleigh, Northcote, etc supporters where are NEW supporters going to come from? WHO will SXFC reach out to and entice to become a part of them instead of Victory (the powerhouse) and Heart (the choice). EVERYONE will still see SXFC as a Greek backed team which will minimise their growth AND that of the A-LEAGUE's!!
I really don't see this happening for another generation, at least! It took Heart 5 years to enter the A-League and give Melburnians a choice so I really don't think there will be another "Melburnian" team for a very long time...Geelong is a different story.
SXFC's only hope to play in the highest domestic competition is to wait for Promotion/Relegation, which probably won't be until 2030+. The only reason for the 5 year wait for a second team was the FFA's mandate that it should be one team per city for 5 years. As for who else SXFC would engage - it is a more difficult issue now that Heart exists. If SXFC/SMFC came in AS WELL as Heart (rather than instead) I would assume the marketing plan would be as suggested earlier in the thread - to specifically target the southern region of the city, focusing on building geographical links with potential supporters irrelevant of ethnicity. With the moves at the SMFC academy, there's clearly going to be a more South American flavour to the club in future - so one would assume this could be used as a marketing element as well. BUT, SXFC did not come in the same time as Heart and considering there was a 5 year wait for a second team, I'm guessing it'll be a lot lot longer for a third side. The fact that Heart HAS come in, you gotta wonder who's left for SXFC IF they were to ever join the A-League...you need a mainstream team who can represent a diverse fan base and currently I don't think SMFC is quite there. Hey why doesn't SMFC change their name to SXFC now just to get the ball rolling? It could be the same team, same colours, same location, just rebranded. Many companies do it to refresh their look and feel to attract new customers ;) If anyone requires a refresh its the heart Seriously though I am not convinced the Mheart have captured an alternative market to the victory but rather a similar market to the victory that did not follow the victory and a portion that did follow the victory ( I hope that makes sence) South would bring in a different option that would complement the existing teams I wonder why is this fool allowed to keep bumping a thread calling for the death of an a-league club? Especially when he's unable to provide a logical argument.
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GGfortythree
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lardface wrote:chris wrote:Red_or_Dead wrote:Benjamin wrote:Red_or_Dead wrote:Plus, I'm sure the FFA would want a team with the diversity to attract new supporters and fans from all over Melbourne (who don't already go for MHFC or MVFC) and from different backgrounds, heritages and cultures!
As far as I see it, Southern Cross FC's reach would've been restricted to the ex-South Melbourne Hellas/Lakers supporters who never jumped on the Victory or Heart bandwagon! Even if you round up all the Heiderlberg, Richmond, Oakleigh, Bentleigh, Northcote, etc supporters where are NEW supporters going to come from? WHO will SXFC reach out to and entice to become a part of them instead of Victory (the powerhouse) and Heart (the choice). EVERYONE will still see SXFC as a Greek backed team which will minimise their growth AND that of the A-LEAGUE's!!
I really don't see this happening for another generation, at least! It took Heart 5 years to enter the A-League and give Melburnians a choice so I really don't think there will be another "Melburnian" team for a very long time...Geelong is a different story.
SXFC's only hope to play in the highest domestic competition is to wait for Promotion/Relegation, which probably won't be until 2030+. The only reason for the 5 year wait for a second team was the FFA's mandate that it should be one team per city for 5 years. As for who else SXFC would engage - it is a more difficult issue now that Heart exists. If SXFC/SMFC came in AS WELL as Heart (rather than instead) I would assume the marketing plan would be as suggested earlier in the thread - to specifically target the southern region of the city, focusing on building geographical links with potential supporters irrelevant of ethnicity. With the moves at the SMFC academy, there's clearly going to be a more South American flavour to the club in future - so one would assume this could be used as a marketing element as well. BUT, SXFC did not come in the same time as Heart and considering there was a 5 year wait for a second team, I'm guessing it'll be a lot lot longer for a third side. The fact that Heart HAS come in, you gotta wonder who's left for SXFC IF they were to ever join the A-League...you need a mainstream team who can represent a diverse fan base and currently I don't think SMFC is quite there. Hey why doesn't SMFC change their name to SXFC now just to get the ball rolling? It could be the same team, same colours, same location, just rebranded. Many companies do it to refresh their look and feel to attract new customers ;) If anyone requires a refresh its the heart Seriously though I am not convinced the Mheart have captured an alternative market to the victory but rather a similar market to the victory that did not follow the victory and a portion that did follow the victory ( I hope that makes sence) South would bring in a different option that would complement the existing teams I wonder why is this fool allowed to keep bumping a thread calling for the death of an a-league club? Especially when he's unable to provide a logical argument. Because he's trolling properly (actual debating skills and facts).
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GCU till I die
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lardface wrote:I wonder why is this fool allowed to keep bumping a thread calling for the death of an a-league club? Right-on, 442 should ban everyone who's ever called for the death of an A-League club. It's the Aussie way, kick the smallest fella around to make yourself feel better. This year it's Hearts turn.
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chris
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I am happy to discuss 3 teams or 2 teams in melbourne
If everyone Insists that the 2nd team in melbourne has worked then I am happy to back down
Not calling for the death of anyone - however the Heart are clearly nowhere near capacity at the moment and I think everyone agrees with that part at the very least
They need to show they have ability to impact the market
This is their 3rd year guys - it's not as if people don't know they exist
Everyone knows they exist yet a very small market is attached to them
What have the Heart done to fast track their development?
Edited by chris: 31/1/2013 06:28:19 PM
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paulc
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chris wrote:I am happy to discuss 3 teams or 2 teams in melbourne so I can keep up the propaganda with my moderator mate and get my mono-ethnic community club South Melbourne Hellas back in top flight warts and all Fixed
In a resort somewhere
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Benjamin
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paulc wrote:chris wrote:I am happy to discuss 3 teams or 2 teams in melbourne so I can keep up the propaganda with my non-ethnic moderator mate and get my community club South Melbourne Football Club back in the top league Fixed Fixed for accuracy and to remove the overly racist elements.
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GGfortythree
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chris wrote:I am happy to discuss 3 teams or 2 teams in melbourne
If everyone Insists that the 2nd team in melbourne has worked then I am happy to back down
Not calling for the death of anyone - however the Heart are clearly nowhere near capacity at the moment and I think everyone agrees with that part at the very least
They need to show they have ability to impact the market
This is their 3rd year guys - it's not as if people don't know they exist
Everyone knows they exist yet a very small market is attached to them
What have the Heart done to fast track their development?
Edited by chris: 31/1/2013 06:28:19 PM Politician mentality. "X sucks and Y is better" but no real proof to back it up.
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Joffa
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chris wrote:
If everyone Insists that the 2nd team in melbourne has worked then I am happy to back down
Ladder position by season - pass8 Melbourne Heart 30 8 11 11 32 42 −10 35 6 Melbourne Heart 27 9 10 8 35 34 +1 37 6 Melbourne Heart 18 6 3 9 23 25 −2 21 Attendances - pass8,312 9,082 8,882 player development - passCurtis Good Eli Bablj Aziz Behich Michael Marrone Brendan Hamill TV Ratings - passcombined Home and Away rating up to completion Round sixteen - pass 70,000 approximately Home Ground - passAAMI Park Corporate Support - passWestpac Drake International Public Transport Victoria BDO ParkTrent Matchworks AXF Group PKF La Trobe University. Supporter Groups - passYarraside Growing the game in Melbourne/Victoria - passCombined Melbourne Victory and Melbourne Heart attendances by season 10 games 141,578 11 games 305,011 10 games 260,642 11 games 269,671 14 games 290,503 30 games 228,517 124,725 = 353,242 27 games 263,648 127,142 = 390,790 18 games 202,700 .78,952 = 281,652 Total = 2,293,089 Edited by Joffa: 31/1/2013 09:45:07 PM
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GGfortythree
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Joffa wrote:chris wrote:
If everyone Insists that the 2nd team in melbourne has worked then I am happy to back down
Ladder position by season - pass - Not really a pass or a fail8 Melbourne Heart 30 8 11 11 32 42 −10 35 6 Melbourne Heart 27 9 10 8 35 34 +1 37 6 Melbourne Heart 18 6 3 9 23 25 −2 21 Attendances - pass- Barely a pass, fails when you see the impact of their home derbies
8,312 9,082 8,882 player development - pass- definite passCurtis Good Eli Bablj Aziz Behich Michael Marrone Brendan Hamill TV Ratings - passcombined Home and Away rating up to completion Round sixteen - pass - meh70,000 approximately Home Ground - pass - passAAMI Park Corporate Support - pass- passWestpac Drake International Public Transport Victoria BDO ParkTrent Matchworks AXF Group PKF La Trobe University. Supporter Groups - pass - pimple faced casualsYarraside Growing the game in Melbourne/Victoria - pass - mehCombined Melbourne Victory and Melbourne Heart attendances by season 10 games 141,578 11 games 305,011 10 games 260,642 11 games 269,671 14 games 290,503 30 games 228,517 124,725 = 353,242 27 games 263,648 127,142 = 390,790 18 games 202,700 .78,952 = 281,652 Total = 2,293,089 Edited by Joffa: 31/1/2013 07:12:50 PM Edited by Gabgabgab39: 31/1/2013 07:25:17 PMEdited by Joffa: 31/1/2013 10:00:34 PM
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Gerrygee
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The South butthurt in this thread is strong.
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tbitm
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gabgabgab39 wrote:Joffa wrote:chris wrote:
If everyone Insists that the 2nd team in melbourne has worked then I am happy to back down
Ladder position by season - pass - Not really a pass or a fail pass-only teams that come last get booted 8 Melbourne Heart 30 8 11 11 32 42 −10 35 6 Melbourne Heart 27 9 10 8 35 34 +1 37 6 Melbourne Heart 18 6 3 9 23 25 −2 21 Attendances - pass- Barely a pass, fails when you see the impact of their home derbies
pass-the impact of the derby is a positive, not a negative. Also to mention, every team in the league (except victory) has had a season average lower then us currently this year 8,312 9,082 8,882 player development - pass- definite pass pass Curtis Good Eli Bablj Aziz Behich Michael Marrone Brendan Hamill TV Ratings - passcombined Home and Away rating up to completion Round sixteen - pass - meh agree, not the best but not the wost 70,000 approximately Home Ground - pass - pass pass AAMI Park Corporate Support - pass- pass pass-very strong corporate support Westpac Drake International Public Transport Victoria BDO ParkTrent Matchworks AXF Group PKF La Trobe University. Supporter Groups - pass - pimple faced casuals pass-Last weeks thread proves we were around 4th or 5th in people eyes Yarraside Growing the game in Melbourne/Victoria - pass - meh definite pass Combined Melbourne Victory and Melbourne Heart attendances by season 10 games 141,578 11 games 305,011 10 games 260,642 11 games 269,671 14 games 290,503 30 games 228,517 124,725 = 353,242 22% increase27 games 263,648 127,142 = 390,790 10% increase18 games 202,700 .78,952 = 281,652 8% increaseTotal = 2,293,089 Edited by Joffa: 31/1/2013 07:12:50 PM Edited by Gabgabgab39: 31/1/2013 07:25:17 PM Edited by Joffa: 31/1/2013 10:01:24 PMEdited by tbitm: 31/1/2013 10:05:43 PM
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Joffa
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Guys I have adjusted both quotes to show the current attendance figures, sorry for the inconvenience.
18 games 202,700 .78,952 = 281,652
Total = 2,293,089
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tbitm
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Joffa wrote:Guys I have adjusted both quotes to show the current attendance figures, sorry for the inconvenience.
18 games 202,700 .78,952 = 281,652
Total = 2,293,089
no worries i picked up on it. also hearts total is 8882*9 = 79,952
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