Rusty

Question 1: Are you now saying that SMFC is being blocked from entering the A-League not because of its so-called "mono-ethnic" roots, but because of its (apparently) poor performance?

Question 2: Why do you continually compare A-League crowds to NSL ones? It is like comparing apples with oranges and this has been pointed out to you repeatedly.

This is one of the stupidest things I have read here, and I have seen some idiotic posts :lol:

Australia Vs Uruguay starting line up 2005

Mark Schwarzer - Four years with Marconi Stallions in the NSL
Tony Popovic - 8 Years with Sydney United in the NSL
Tony Vidmar - 5 seasons with Adelaide City in the NSL
Mark Bresciano - 2 Seasons with Carlton in the NSL
Scott Chipperfield - 5 years with Wollongong in the NSL
Jason Culina - 3 Seasons in the NSL
Brett Emerton - 4 Seasons in the NSL with Olympic
Vince Grella - 2 Seasons in the NSL
Mark Viduka - 3 Seasons in the NSL with Sydney United

9/11 players in the starting line up had played a considerable amount of time in the NSL plus the majority of the bench and the majority of them all were developed by these NSL clubs, not simply picked up and thrown into a youth team.

Are you seriously going to claim that they qualified thanks for the A-League? Same can be said with the 2010 team.

I am a fan of the A-League, I love what it has done to football in Australia however the insults I have seen here towards people who have supported football for a long time in Australia, pre A-League and seeing their NSL clubs attacked and mocked is quite sickening.

Question 1: It's poor perfromance has much to do with its connectedness to a community which represents a tiny fraction of the Melbourne market and its disconnect to the broader community

Question 2: It's not apples and oranges, crowds in Perth and Adeaide have dropped, despite the increased marketing and exposure. Most of the growth has been in new markets with fresh brands and identities.

You may not have noticed, but over the last few years I've posted a hell of a lot of information about a lot of A-League business that has later been proven to be accurate. From Victory and Heart, up to Fury, Gold Coast, player transfers, etc. Either I have massive conflicts of issues, or I simply mix in football circles and know an awful lot of behind the scenes stuff. Your call.

As to why I believe South's bid hasn't been given fair consideration due to its background - the bid was described by the FFA as "as good as any we have seen", then passed over for another bid which lacked a name, colours, a home venue, training or admin facilities, didn't have any staff, no access to a youth set-up, was only part funded and didn't even have a point of differentiation from the existing Melbourne team. Hard to see any reason it was selected over SXFC other than to avoid the connection with South/ethnics/history.

Okay - if that's the way they want to go, that's the way they want to go - but don't try pretending the decision was made for any reason other than the ethnic issue.

As for the self centered Greek community (repeat to fade) issue - again, I can only comment as an English man, of English/Welsh heritage, when I say that the Greek issue doesn't bother me one bit - and I don't see why it would/should bother anyone else.

Booh hoo. I wasn't claiming they qualfied thanks to the A league, rather exposing the belief the NSL produced better players despite Australia not qualifying for a world cup during its existence. You would think if the NSL model was so fantastic at producing players we might done a bit better internationally.

I don't particularly like to poop on the NSL, but if someone wants to have a go at the A league by calling it 'rubbish' and 'plastic' I'm happy to let fly.

It might bother you if 'God save the Queen' was playing and they started singing the Greek anthem. I reckon you might join in though.

You Sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

I've been at a game in Scotland when 'God save the Queen' was booed down - I wasn't impressed, I didn't enjoy it, but it hasn't coloured me against Scottish clubs or supporters.

How can you make a statement like "the NSL couldn't produce a single Socceroos team capable of qualifying for the world cup", then have it pointed out that 9 of the 11 starters in the team that got Australia to the world cup were produced by the NSL, and STILL try to say you are right?

For the record, I agree with your final paragraph - if someone has a pop at one competition they are open to anyone having a pop at theirs... However, said pop should be accurate and educated, otherwise you just come off looking as foolish as those who make the initial comment.

Add to the list further NSL products:

Zelic, Okon, Tiatto, Simunic, Corica, Agostino, Kalac, Lazaridis, Horvat, M Petkovic, Bosnich, A Vidmar, J Aloisi, Sterjovski, Farina, Muscat (don't rate), Arnold, Slater,

Also worth noting is that Kewell, Cahill and Neill were produced during the NSL era, regardless of whether they bypassed the league and went to Europe it reflects well on the NSL development framework and youth coaching structure led by Scheinflug and Blanco.

As for the Glory they have died in the aleague because from day 1 the FFA chose not to recognise their achievements in the NSL, alienating their fan base who long for another encounter vs South Melbourne, and ultimately adding to the failure list of the LOWY regime.

Adelaide are another victim of the aleague framework that invitably leads to FFA ownership. Owners with no idea making poor football and financial decisions leading to a disillusioned fan base who long to play the likes of South Melbourne.

As for the aleague last night, was great to see Stella get a start for Victory when he struggled to train with the seniors at a 4th division Scottish club.

what a load of codswallop. Don't seem like very loyal supporters to me, also this travesty of injustice did not seem to affect Adelaide United, Newcastle Jets or the Kingz.

as for the failure of the Lowy regime, it is currently on track to get close to two million through the turnstiles this season, including finals...how many seasons of the NSL and your Glory v south derbies do you have to add together to get even close to that?

I fail to see the relevance of your example when the aleague is again on track to lose between 25-30 million (even after an increased 2.5m dividend).

The Kingz like the Phoenix proved that New Zealanders prefer the ASP premiership. Australian football is barking up the wrong tree persisting with a NZ team at the expense of an Australia team, but its hard to expect forward thinking from LOWY who has outlived Havalange's record of oldest administrator in football known to man kind (closing on 84 and full of bright ideas...NOT).

From memory both Adelaide and Newcastle Jets have been run by the FFA. Without this assistance they now wouldn't exist. The financial modelling of the aleague is built on inconsistency and quicksand.

The "5 million" capital fund requirement would have to be the most overlooked criteria in the history of mandatory licensing requirements but this is far from surprising given LOWY is operating on vengeance as opposed to "for the good of the game".

I see you answer is not relevant to my comments well done...

I'm pretty sure this stat is wrong, last year 17 million was lost and it is believed that 10 million or so was lost by GCU.

You are distorting our argument as an attempt to justify your attacks on the NSL. No-one is calling the A-league plastic or rubbish. We are simply critical of Melbourne Heart's off-field performance and club model and have plenty of positive ideas on how they could improve their situation. We also think that SMFC should be considered at some stage soon if they fulfill the necessary criteria.

Ben the reality is between 77 and 2004 we didn't qualify for the world cup. The bulk of these squads were made up of locally based players with a few exports, it wasn't until the 90's and 2000's when began shifiting more players overseas to be developed we started to become competitive internationally. Now these players had to start somewhere so the NSL deserves some credit but so does the HNL, Serie A and Premier League and all the junior clubs that were represented.

It's worth pointing out almost all of the golden gen made their NLS debuts between 89 and 96, the production line from 97 onwards slowed down dramatically and the only names worthy of note out of that era are Holman, Beauchamp, Kennedy, Griffiths, Thwaite etc, yet the NSL die hards have no problem pinning our current national team problems on the A league. Obviously the NSL didn't leave Oz football in the best shape and its taken some time to rebuild, fortunately we're seeing the development of some outstadning prospects who all have their origins in the A leauge; Kruse, Oar, Rogic, Rojas etc.

Actually you are distorting the argument, whilst you may not be calling the A-League'plastic or rubbish' many other posters advocating for south in this thread have quite strongly and unequivocally done so.


And this comment is simply disingenuous to many of the comments that have gone before



N.B I am not insinuating you personally have made those comments, but certainly there is a long litany of baseless attacks in this thread which appear unable to respond or refute many of the facts as presented.

If you were to argue for a third team in Melbourne and the suitability of South being that team, then that is a totally different conversation which is in striking contrast to the premise of the intent and much of the content of this thread.







Edited by Joffa: 9/2/2013 06:19:03 PM

Really?:lol: The only "positive" ideas I've heard from South fans towards Heart are to get the fuck out OR let South in so they can save Heart.:roll: If you are trying to convince me you are legimitely interested in seeing Heart do well, you have failed.

And the A league gets caled rubbish and plastic all the time, on Youtube, NSL club forums, footballanarchy, even in this thread one page ago.

There are tons of South fans who absolutely loathe the A league and think the NSL was the best thing ever.

I have n idea for the MH

THEY SHOULD CHANGE THEIR STRIP TO GREEN - most of the fans seem to be wearing a green top - (puts on glasses) - Wait a minute - they're empty seats - my mistake

Seriously though - this crowd looks less than 5 1/2 k

I'll ask again. - why I are there very few families in the crowd

80% of the crowd seems to be kids up to early 20s

Edited by chris: 9/2/2013 06:42:18 PM

At least Heart have a 30k seated stadium to play in you butthurt mongoloid. Also if mot are young like in early 20s then doesn't this fit the idea of new fans who will bring new fans in as they produce further generations which is what the ALeague was hoping for in the way of support you fuc king numpty?

where do you draw these conclusions? just by watching tv?

All the families are on the opposite side of the cameras, in the family section. Was a bit hot today, if they played in winter would've easily pulled 20k.

We moved the league back 2 months to avoid the afl/nrl seasons, crowds would absolutely plummet in winter...where the weather is actually worse! 30 degrees is hardly extreme weather to watch a game in.

Firstly we had no WC in 2004, in 2005 we got lucky in a shootout, the sort of luck that had eluded us in previous campaigns...considering the A league was a few months old, you would have to be on crack to claim that qualification as the "nsl being dead", simply we got the luck we finally deserved.

2001 - 1-0 up after 1st leg at MCG, chances early to kill it off in Montevideo, got run down as the match wore on.

1997 - well we should have beaten Iran by 10 goals

1993 - The Argentinians were crapping themselves until a fortunate deflected shot from Batistuta off Tobin looped in over the keepers head, went down 2-1 on agg.

2005 - Schwarzer bailed us out in the 1st leg, and again in the shootout...we got what we deserved above.

As far as players go, Rogic is unproven, Rojas is still a domestic player and way off european standard at this point, i give you Kruse who is making good waves in the Bundesliga.

Adelaide were in the nsl for 2 minutes, hardly enough to establish a culture in that league, as for the Jets they were dead and buried until Tinkler came in, and crowds went up as a result of slashing ticket prices...the hunter valley was predominantly represented by the newcastle breakers in the nsl..the Jets are a different club...in fact many Breakers fans went to the Mariners in disgust. Without doubt Perth were hurt the most, unable to provide its own matchday experience like they did in the nsl..because the ffa wouldnt let them, unable to celebrate its 10 yr history...cos Caroll wouldnt let them, when you dont allow a club to embrace its history and tell them they are a new entity it can be very hard

The only reason why the Southern Cross bid was allowed was only due to the fact that smfc went to the media when the ffa were ignoring the club, the ffa were basically forced to allow the bid to avoid a severe backlash. as 1 heart investor put it " it wouldnt have mattered if Roman Abramovich was funding South, the whole thing was over as soon as South became the only other option".

" The owners of the A-League’s 10 clubs, who incurred combined losses of $25 million in the 2011-12 season, are frustrated with FFA, chaired by powerful shopping centre billionaire Frank Lowy"

http://www.afr.com/p/national/league_club_owners_demand_new_deal_TBPeLPjSrmR57xlmmDPAtM

Moving on!!

Oh, Melbourne Heart with another pathetic crowd.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda ...

There was nothing lucky about nabbing Hiddink, it was all Lowy.

So you are suggesting that Hiddink and Lowy was responsible for us qualifying via the lottery of penalties? I think the man that cut his teeth at Marconi got us through:d

The penalties might have been a lottery, but the 210 minutes before it weren't.