This thread is for general discussion on the expansion or potential expansion of teams in the A-league. It is also used to discuss the viability of existing clubs and the history of previous clubs as well as NPL teams. The FFA has expansion on hold until after the existing broadcasting deal ends, unless a miracalous bid comes along.
[size=8]The Front Runners
Canberra is a front runner for future A-league expansion. The official bid A-League4Canberra was closed on 10 May 2012 due to losing out to Western Sydney Wanderers and FFA suspending expansion until 2015. Canberra drew 5,193 people to an A-league game between Central Coast Mariners and Perth Glory on the 4th of September 2009, and 5,735 to watch Sydney FC vs Central Coast during the 2007 pre season cup. Canberra has a W-League team which has the highest average attendance of the league at about 1000. According to Ivan Slavich, Canberra is the preferred option for the A-leagues 11th team.
Canberra has had 2 NSL teams in the past, Canberra City and Canberra Cosmos, the Cosmos failed to attract crowds above 3000.
The Wollongong A-league bid, South Coast FC, lost out too NQF and GCU. Football South Coast chief executive Ann-Marie Balliana has spoken about the cities goals to have an A-league team. Football South Coast boss Eddy De Gabriele said the South Coast is hoping to have a W-league and NYL team by the 2014-15 NSWPL season, and an A-league team in 3 years with several backers already being approached. South Coast Wolves were expected to have a 22-hectare training and administration site built for the club by 2015 as well as a cheaper stadium rent deal to play at WIN Stadium, however the initial funding was scrapped.
Wollongong drew a crowd of 6,124 at a match between Sydney FC and Wellington Phoenix for the 2008 Pre-season cup, and 6,540 at a pre-season friendly in 2013 between Sydney FC and Newcastle Jets. Newcastle Jets player Ruben Zadkovich and Newcastle Coach Gary van Egmond both publicly supported an A-league bid. Wollongong supported a NSL club for over 20 years in the NSL, its crowd were generally between 3-5k.
[size=6]South Melbourne/Third Melbourne[/size]1234567
Southern Cross FC is a bid backed by South Melbourne FC to re-enter the A-league. The bid lost out to Melbourne Heart FC during the Melbourne expansion. In 2013 South Melbourne FC attempted to buy Central Coast Mariners and Melbourne Heart, both of which were rejected. The bid included $3.5 million and brazilian star Emerson as coach, Melbourne Heart have rejected the bid twice. South Melbourne FC drew crowds between 3-8k in the NSL and was a founding club of the league.
The Campbelltown council have pushed for an A-league town to be based out of Campbelltown stadium, the proposal is supported by former Socceroo Brett Emerton.
Liverpool mayor Ned Mannoun supports an A-league team to be based out of Liverpool playing in a proposed stadium at Woodward Park.
Southern Sydney is rumoured to be a preferred location for a future A-league team, recently Tim Cahill has thrown his support behind a Southern Sydney team and the Cronulla Sharks have shown interest in supporting or setting up a bid.
Tasmania has had a A-league bid since 2008. Tasmania has 2 main population centers, Hobart and Launceston, it is unclear what city the team would play in if successful. Football Federation Tasmania is not currently pursuing an A-league license, stating that it is unsustainable, they're currently hoping to have a small rectangular stadium be built in Hobart. In 2013 when speaking about expansion, A-league chief Damien de Bohun said Hobart was another option for expansion, however in 2014 David Gallop commented that Tasmania was not in the FFA's short term plan however did not rule it out for the future.
Melbourne Victory signed a 3 year agreement with the Tasmanian football association to play pre-season games in Tasmania and also naming of the Tasmanian state league. A crowd of 4071 showed up to watch Melbourne Victory play against the Tasmania XI in Hobart. Launceston drew a crowd of 8061 to watch Melbourne Victory and Adelaide united during the 2007 pre season cup , 4,720 the following year and 3,147 during the 2012-13 pre season.
Geelong is the second largest city in Victoria, federal MP for Corangamite, Darren Cheeseman, launched a $20,000 feasibility study into Geelong football, and Geelong Football Club supported sharing Kardinia Park together, Josip Skoko also supported a team for Geelong.
Recently there was interest from a Melbourne based consortium to relocate Central Coast Mariners to Geelong which had support from the local council. A crowd of 8500 turned up to watch Melbourne Victory play against Newcastle jets at the 2007 pre season cup.
A Geelong consortium called "Greater Geelong Galaxy" is currently attempting to gain entry in to the NPLV, this could be the first step to an A-league club. After the first year the club will allow its members to choose its colours and name.
In 2013, A-league chief Damien de Bohun spoke about playing A-league games in Asia during the 2014/15 season while the Asian Cup was on. He also spoke about having future teams based in Asia and has said that they have had active discussions with places like Singapore, Indonesia and are currently speaking to Malaysian officials on playing a team out of a new 50,000 stadium. Malaysian officials welcomed the idea while Singaporean officials said it wanted to hear more details while Indonesian Football Federation secretary-general Joko Driyono said he was not aware of of any contact over the proposal.
Townsville won the right to play in the 2009-10 A-league season as North Queensland Fury. Following their first season the club was hit with severe financial difficulties with there main backer pulling out. The club folded after just there 2nd season with crowd averages of 6,723 and 4,245. After much talk about the Fury coming back, the club was finally re-formed in 2012 and successfully bidded to join the 2013 NPL. The Fury have a five-year plan a National Youth League license in 2015, a W-League license in 2016 and an A-league team in 2017. In November, 2013 Fury will attempt to attract 5,000 members as part of a community ownership program to help their cause to re-join the A-league.
Gold Coast is currently the largest city in Australia without a team. Gold Coast united participated in the A-league for 3 years before the FFA took its license off the clubs owner, its season attendance averages were 5,392, 3,434 and 3,546. A Gold Coast consortium had hoped to save the club but the FFA opted for a team in Western Sydney. In 2012 Gold Coast Football planned joining the APL and eventually returning to the A-league by 2017, there bid was rejected. Geoffrey Schuhkraft is working on bringing an A-league team back to the Gold Coast
Auckland has had 2 football teams. Football Kingz FC lasted 5 years in the NSL bringing in average crowds between 1.5-5.5k. The second team New Zealand Knights lasted just 2 seasons in the A-league drawing yearly average crowds of 3,909 and 3,014. Since then however there has been a raised possibility about a new Auckland team with the success of Wellington Phoenix. Wellington Phoenix drew a crowd of 20,078 during the 2011-12 A-league season at Eden park(Auckland).
Auckland City FC have recently begun talking to potential investors including Wellington Phoenix owner Gareth Morgan, with the aim of entering the A-league, and New Zealand Football has announced a strategic plan which includes supporting a 2nd NZ team from Auckland.
Far North Queensland Heat announced plans to join the A-league after signing a sponsorship deal with Aquis. They're planning on building a 25,000 seater stadium and to have an A-league and NYL license when the FFA next consider expansion. Far North Queensland Heat have planned talks with the FFA and and Football Queensland.
A Brisbane Roar vs Sydney GC game attracted 4,500 supporters to a pre-season cup game, while a pre-season friendly between Brisbane Roar and Sydney FC attracted 4707.
Sunshine Coast Fire have publicly said they want to join the A-league when FFA re-open for A-league bids. Sunshine Coast has drawn crowds between 3-4k for pre season games.
Ipswich have plans to for an A-league team with Mayor Paul Pisasale promising to build a 15,000 seat stadium to secure a license. Brisbane Roar CEO Sean Dobson and Ipswich's deputy Mayor Victor Attwood have supported an Ipswich A-elague team. Ipswich has attracted crowds of 2-4k for pre-season Brisbane Roar games.
Christchurch has been suggested as the next place for New Zealand expansion. Christchurch attracted 14,108 supporters to a Wellington Phoenix A-league game during the 2010-11 season and 19,279 during the 2009-10 season.
[size=6]City of Casey[/size]123
The City of Casey talked about the possibility of an A-league team in 2008.
In 2008 Frank Lowy openly met with the Oceania Football Federation (OFC) to have a Pacific Islands based team in the A-league and invited the OFC to look into creating a team for the Pacific Islands. OFC ambassador Christian Karembeu headed a football consortium to be based in New Caledonia called Ocean 11 FC.
The Northern Territory Government supported the Northern Thunder bid whose plan was to play some games out of Darwin. Northern Territory Football Association’s skill acquisitions trainer John Tambouras has spoken of having a NYL or A-League team based in Darwin. Darwin drew a crowd of 2,700 to a pre-season cup game between Perth Glory and Melbourne Victory.
Dunedin drew a crowd of 15,037 to a pre-season game between Wellington Phoenix and Brisbane Roar
Toowoomba has pulled crowds between 2-3k for pre-season games.
Hamilton got 9000 to pre-season game between Wellington and Brisbane.
Gippsland had an NSL team known as Morwell Falcons which drew crowds of around 2-3k. A season match between Melbourne Heart and Wellington was viewed by 2,951 fans.
Football Queensland technical director Gary Phillips has spoken in favour of a second Brisbane team in the future.
Various Adelaide Coaches have spoken in support of a future Adelaide team. A consortium of Adelaide business men are currently are currently discussing the option of a 2nd Adelaide team after 2017.
The Ballarat Red Devils are currently bidding to join the NPLV, Andrew Burgess chairman of the Red Devils has stated that the overall vision of the club is to one day play in the A-league.
Other significant population centres include Mackay, Mandurah, Bendigo, Rockhampton, Albury-Wodonga, Burnie – Devonport, Bunbury, Bundaberg, Tauranga, Palmerston North and Napier.
[size=8]Former A-league Bids/Concepts/Expressions of Interest
Gold Coast Galaxy12
Gold Coast United12
Southern Cross FC1
Joe Meissner Penrith bid12345
New Zealand Knights
North Queensland Fury12
South Coast FC12345
Colin DeLutis Melbourne bid12
[size=8]A-league Club Games Held in Potential Expansion Areas
9/2/2014 - A-league Round 18, Melbourne Heart vs Perth Glory - 7,218, Lavington Sports Ground
2/2/2013 - A-league Round 19, Wellington Phoenix vs Perth Glory - 11,566, Eden Park
28/9/2013 - pre-season friendly, Auckland City vs Wellington Phoenix - 2,500, Kiwitea Street
1/2/2014 - A-league Round 17, Wellington Phoenix vs Adelaide United - 18,506, Eden Park
23/7/2014 - International Friendly, Wellington Phoenix vs West Ham United - 19,183, Eden Park
13/12/2014 - A-league Round 10, Wellington Phoenix vs Central Coast Mariners - 11,051 Eden Park
22/9/2013 - pre-season friendly - Brisbane Roar FC vs Sydney FC - 4,707, Barlow Park
14/8/2013 - pre-season friendly - Canberra Olympic vs Western Sydney Wanderers - 1800, AIS Athletics Field
21/8/2013 - pre-season friendly - Canberra NPL All-Stars vs Newcastle Jets - 761, McKellar Park
12/9/2012 - pre-season friendly, Wellington Phoenix vs Western Sydney Wanderers - 7,009, AMI Stadium
9/9/2013 - A-league Round Five, Wellington Phoenix vs Perth Glory - 9,671, AMI Stadium
3/3/2013 - A-league Round 23, Wellington Phoenix vs Melbourne Heart - 3,060, Forsyth Barr Stadium
22/7/2014 - International Friendly Newcastle United vs Sydney FC - 9,506, Forsyth Barr Stadium
21/8/2012 - pre-season friendly, Tasmania XI vs Melbourne Victory - 4,071, KGV Park
29/9/2013 - pre-season friendly, Melbourne Victory vs Western Sydney Wanderers - 5,290, Twin Ovals
15/2/2014 - Asian Champions League Qualifying Play-off, Melbourne Victory vs Muangthong United - 8,304, Kardinia Park
2/1/2015 - A-league Round 13, Melbourne Victory vs Perth Glory - 21,289, Kardinia Park
12/8/2012 - pre-season friendly, Ipswich Select XI vs Brisbane Roar - 2.431, North Ipswich Reserve
14/9/2013 - pre-season friendly, Brisbane Roar vs Melbourne Victory - 2,550, North Ipswich Reserve
24/8/2012 - pre-season friendly, Melbourne Victory vs Adelaide United - 3,147, Aurora Stadium
22/9/2013 - pre-season friendly, Wellington Phoenix FC vs All Whites A - 3,553, Rotorua International Stadium
16/9/2012 - pre-season friendly, Brisbane Roar vs Sydney FC - 2,500, Virgin Australia Stadium
19/12/2013 - A-league Round 6, Central Coast Mariners vs Wellington Phoenix - 6,755 North Sydney Oval
5/12/2014 - A-league round 9, Central Coast Mariners vs Melbourne Victory - 7,098 North Sydney Oval
27/9/2013 - A-league Round Three, Wellington Phoenix vs Newcastle Jets - 9020, McLean Park
23/9/2012 - pre-season friendly, Brisbane Roar vs Central Coast Mariners - 3,500, Stockland Park
18/9/2013 - pre-season friendly, Western Pride vs Brisbane Roar - 1000, Toowoomba Grammar School
14/9/2013 - Pre-season friendly, Sydney FC v Newcastle Jets - 6,540, WIN Stadium.
5/8/2014 - friendly, A-League All Stars vs Young Socceroos - 6,963, WIN Stadium
3/1/2015 - A-league Round 14, Sydney FC vs Newcastle Jets - 11,733, WIN Stadium.
[size=8]Former Top Flight Clubs Average Attendances in Expansion Areas
Auckland Football Kingz/ Football Kingz
1999/00 - 4,547
2000/01 - 6,620
2001/02 - 3,874
2002/03 - 2,613 - As Football Kingz
2003/04 - 1,273
2005/06 - 3,909
2006/07 - 3,011
1995/96 - 2,910
1996/97 - 2,939
1997/98 - 2,719
1998/99 - 2,336
1999/00 - 2,428
2000/01 - 2,184
Morwell Falcons/Gippsland Falcons/Eastern Pride
1993/94 - 2,263
1994/95 - 1,231
1995/96 - 2,534
1996/97 - 3,001 - As Gippsland Falcons
1997/98 - 3,062
1998/99 - 2,173
1999/00 - 2,148
2000/01 - 1,657 - As Eastern Pride
Gold Coast United
2009/10 - 5297
2010/11 - 3419
2011/12 - 3438
1998/99 - 14,633
1999/00 - 8,305
2000/01 - 4,526
2001/02 - 4,750
2002/03 - 2,377
2003/04 - 2,000
North Queensland Fury
2009/10 - 6723
2010/11 - 4245
Wollongong City/Wollongong Wolves
1995/96 - 2,873
1996/97 - 4,701 - As Wollongong Wolves
1997/98 - 5,567
1998/99 - 3,560
1999/00 - 4,939
2000/01 - 5,104
2001/02 - 3,403
2002/03 - 3,025
2003/04 - 2,569[size=8]Population Projections[/size]
In 1998, With a population of 264,128, the Wollongong Wolves averaged 5,567 in their NSL when they came 6th place.
Currently, the population is around 292,136
In 2017, The next likely time for expansion, the population is estimated to be about 303,630
In 2022, 318,574
in 2030, 343,891
In 1996, with a population of around 297,300, the Canberra Cosmos averaged 3,176 when they came last in the NSL.
Currently, The population is around 422,249
In 2017, 455,113
In 2022, 499,813
In 2030, 580,644
Currently, the population is around 227,699
In 2017, 241,957
In 2022, 261,042
In 2030, 294,758
In 2001, with a population of 1,022,616, the Football Kingz averaged 6,620 when they came 8th in the NSL.
Currently the population is around 1,530,315
In 2017, 1,624,221
In 2022, 1,749,747
In 2030, 1,971,077
Currently the population is around 513,024
In 2017, 517,141
In 2022, 522,333
In 2030, 530,748
In 2010, with a population of 181,743, North Queensland Fury averaged 6,723 when they came 7th in the A-League.
Currently the population is around 186,310
In 2017, 203,254
In 2022, 226,617
In 2030, 269,712
[size=6]Townsville, Sunshine Coast, Gold Coast, Ipswich/Logan, Illawara, Central Coast, Australian Capital Territory, Tasmania and Barwon[/size][size=6]Perth and sub-regions[/size]
[size=4]As of 2010[/size]
Perth has a population of 1,696,000 in 2031 it will be 2,200,000
Central Perth has a population of 705,000, in 2031 it will be 910,000.
North-west Perth has a population of 285,000, in 2031 it will be 395,000.
North-east Perth has a population of 189,000, in 2031 it will be 258,000.
South-east Perth has a population of 170,000, in 2031 it will be 228,000.
South-west Perth has a population of 208,000, in 2031 it will be 277,000.[size=6]Peel[/size]
[size=4]As of 2010[/size]
Peel has a population of 88,000, in 2031 it will be 133,000.
[size=8]State Population Summaries
[/size][size=6]Australian Capital Territory[/size][size=6]Northern Territory[/size][size=6]Queensland[/size][size=6]South Australia[/size]New South Wales[size=6]Victoria[/size][size=6]Western Australia[/size][size=8]Gross Regional Product per Population[/size]
By Gyfox[size=8]Registered Players Per Region[/size]
[size=3]As of 2013[/size][size=6]Australian Capital territory[/size]
14,500 players in the Australian Capital Territory.[size=6]G21 Region(Geelong & Surrounding Areas)[/size]
2,851 registered plays in the G21 region.[size=6]Gold Coast[/size]
Gold Coast had 8,500 registered plays as of 2007.
[size=6]New South Wales
198,000 registered players.Northern New South Wales
51,000 registered players.
75,000 registered players.[size=6]North Queensland[/size]
Around 4k registered players as of 2014.
23,000 registered players.[size=6]Sunshine Coast[/size]
More than 5,500 players in Sunshine Coast.[size=6]Sutherland Shire[/size]
15,000 registered players.
59,000 registered players.
35,000 registered players and 1 club giving a player pool of 35,000 per club.[size=6]South Coast and Surrounding Regions[/size]
10,500 registered players in South Coast, and 17,000 in the surrounding areas.
[size=8]5 Major City sub-regions
Looking for map.
[size=8]Rail line Maps
[size=8]Fan submissions for potential future clubs
1. melbourne victory
2. melbourne heart
3. south melbourne
4. geelong city
5. dandenong thunder
Merger between Adelaide City and Adelaide Blue Eagles
- auckland home similar to auckland city, and away similar to waitekere
- wollongong kits, most similar to what they have worn in the past. could replace away with a grey kit
- geelong to wear white shorts and socks or blue shorts and socks with the home kit, whichever is most suitable against their opponent
- if too many greens, canberra could wear blue/white/yellow as their home kit instead.
Joint venture between Auckland City and Waitakere United.
Name: Ballarat Town (acknowledging its regional location, not too cheesy), "the golden boys" with their all gold kit.
Colours: Caret (bloodshed at the Eureka Stockade) and Gold (the gold rush)
Logo: shovel and pick (mining), monogram, flames and pitchfork (Ballarat Red Devils), swan (Lake Wendouree), eight pointed star (Eureka flag), poppet head (mining once more).
Ground: Morshead Park (upgraded)
Colours are blue white and gold, blue and white for Eureka and gold for the obvious.
Notes: Brisbane like their jacaranda trees, jacarandas are purple, so Ipswich can be purple.
Notes: Logo wise Ipswich is home to a large air base, so I've gone with a basic roundel, I like things simple (similar to Hamburg SV). Still going with the Ipswich City name though.
Western Australia(Perth 2)
[size=6]Fan campaigns for A-league expansion
[size=8]Opinion pieces on A-league expansion, location and relocation
[/size]David GallopCraig FosterProfessional Footballers' Association (PFA)Eric Kontos, Sydney South WestBill Molloy, TasmaniaSimon Hill, FFA Funding Expansion
Please discuss and please add more:)
Special thanks to tbitm
for population projections and Gyfox
for the registered players per state and the Sydney sub-regions population projections.Edited by iridium1010: 19/5/2013 04:20:29 PMEdited by Iridium1010: 27/7/2013 11:14:34 PMEdited by Iridium1010: 18/8/2013 10:14:57 PMEdited by Iridium1010: 18/8/2013 10:24:30 PMEdited by Iridium1010: 19/8/2013 01:22:46 PMEdited by Iridium1010: 19/8/2013 01:24:14 PMEdited by iridium1010: 14/9/2013 04:19:26 PMEdited by iridium1010: 16/9/2013 09:47:18 PMEdited by Iridium1010: 18/9/2013 05:48:53 PMEdited by iridium1010: 19/9/2013 09:27:00 PMEdited by iridium1010: 22/9/2013 09:00:52 PMEdited by iridium1010: 30/9/2013 04:43:13 PMEdited by iridium1010: 30/9/2013 07:32:07 PMEdited by iridium1010: 30/9/2013 07:34:05 PMEdited by iridium1010: 30/9/2013 11:24:13 PMEdited by iridium1010: 1/10/2013 09:38:20 PMEdited by iridium1010: 1/10/2013 10:13:18 PMEdited by iridium1010: 3/10/2013 10:55:44 PMEdited by iridium1010: 4/10/2013 11:02:47 PMEdited by iridium1010: 5/10/2013 07:19:16 PMEdited by iridium1010: 5/10/2013 08:52:29 PMEdited by iridium1010: 8/10/2013 07:25:49 PMEdited by iridium1010: 8/10/2013 11:00:23 PMEdited by iridium1010: 15/10/2013 04:35:29 PMEdited by iridium1010: 15/10/2013 04:40:01 PMEdited by iridium1010: 22/10/2013 05:54:27 PMEdited by iridium1010: 28/10/2013 12:21:43 AMEdited by iridium1010: 8/11/2013 06:10:37 PMEdited by iridium1010: 8/11/2013 06:11:41 PMEdited by iridium1010: 8/11/2013 06:32:48 PMEdited by iridium1010: 11/11/2013 02:37:43 AMEdited by iridium1010: 12/11/2013 05:14:19 PMEdited by iridium1010: 12/11/2013 06:16:51 PMEdited by iridium1010: 12/11/2013 06:58:53 PMEdited by iridium1010: 12/11/2013 07:03:05 PMEdited by iridium1010: 12/11/2013 07:21:39 PMEdited by iridium1010: 12/11/2013 07:26:23 PMEdited by iridium1010: 17/11/2013 08:49:10 PMEdited by iridium1010: 19/11/2013 12:54:01 AMEdited by iridium1010: 21/11/2013 10:39:44 PMEdited by iridium1010: 21/11/2013 10:44:18 PMEdited by iridium1010: 22/11/2013 05:36:50 PMEdited by iridium1010: 27/11/2013 12:36:38 AMEdited by iridium1010: 9/12/2013 04:42:00 PMEdited by iridium1010: 28/12/2013 05:17:33 PMEdited by iridium1010: 30/12/2013 08:01:06 PMEdited by iridium1010: 3/1/2014 12:29:50 AMEdited by iridium1010: 22/1/2014 08:39:08 PMEdited by iridium1010: 28/1/2014 03:48:58 PMEdited by iridium1010: 29/1/2014 06:07:29 PMEdited by iridium1010: 29/1/2014 07:02:34 PMEdited by iridium1010: 29/1/2014 07:17:39 PMEdited by iridium1010: 1/2/2014 05:51:34 PMEdited by iridium1010: 1/2/2014 05:51:56 PMEdited by iridium1010: 1/2/2014 07:13:06 PMEdited by iridium1010: 6/2/2014 08:26:20 PMEdited by iridium1010: 8/2/2014 07:35:42 PMEdited by iridium1010: 9/3/2014 04:37:15 AMEdited by iridium1010: 9/3/2014 04:41:36 AMEdited by iridium1010: 9/3/2014 04:53:58 AMEdited by iridium1010: 21/3/2014 06:49:07 PMEdited by iridium1010: 20/4/2014 07:11:25 PMEdited by iridium1010: 8/5/2014 05:42:39 PMEdited by iridium1010: 2/6/2014 10:49:14 PMEdited by iridium1010: 24/6/2014 05:53:33 PMEdited by iridium1010: 28/7/2014 04:50:55 PMEdited by iridium1010: 5/8/2014 04:00:59 PMEdited by iridium1010: 5/8/2014 04:23:52 PMEdited by iridium1010: 18/8/2014 11:29:17 PMEdited by iridium1010: 18/8/2014 11:34:24 PMEdited by iridium1010: 4/9/2014 12:39:15 AMEdited by iridium1010: 4/9/2014 12:41:47 AMEdited by iridium1010: 21/9/2014 12:04:05 AMEdited by iridium1010: 21/9/2014 02:35:52 AMEdited by iridium1010: 15/10/2014 06:11:08 PMEdited by iridium1010: 31/10/2014 04:00:28 PMEdited by iridium1010: 7/12/2014 10:23:21 PMEdited by iridium1010: 10/12/2014 03:55:01 PMEdited by iridium1010: 10/12/2014 04:09:02 PMEdited by iridium1010: 8/1/2015 10:12:25 PMEdited by iridium1010: 22/8/2015 04:15:45 PMEdited by iridium1010: 5/11/2015 07:30:56 PM