It'll mean another expansion club going bust and a total contravention of what a traditional football league is meant to be. Asia has its own leagues, and- as important as Asia is to us on an international level (both in football and non-football terms)- our domestic league should remain just that: a domestic league.

Trying to turn the A-League into some sort of South-East Asian tournament is gimmicky and contrived, and it's solely based on the monetary potential (which I think is entirely wrong anyway).

Our situation is comparable to the EPL. Our relationship with New Zealand is in my opinion comparable to England's with Wales. In terms of cultural and geographical differences, this'd be like the EPL accepting clubs from Ghana (London is closer to Accra than Sydney is to Kuala Lumpur).

We're not the BBL, we're not Super Rugby- we're a domestic football league that should be trying to build a tradition.

It's a big deal.


Edited by Cappuccino: 15/1/2014 07:50:44 PM

Ultimately the FFA will only expand if there is a viable untapped market. If they are banging on about south-east asia it's because that's where the people and the money are (even if it's a stupid idea).

The FFA want bigger teams with big support bases, that can generate big crowds and large TV audiences. If they expand again, they will want to create another Western Sydney Wanderers, not another Central Coast Mariners, especially if they have to put some money aside to set it up (and then sell it off later for a good price).

Because of this, FFA don't want to put more teams into regional areas with less than 500,000 people, because at best you'll have the Mariners and at worst you'll have a disaster. The Mariners have outstanding market penetration but they struggle to keep themselves afloat from a financial perspective. When push comes to shove, only 300,000 people live there, and they barely half-fill a 20,000 seat stadium in a good year.

Wollongong may have a football pedigree but the Illawarra-Shellharbour-Shoalhaven region is not much bigger in size than the Central Coast. Geelong is only 200,000 people, which is even smaller than the central coast, so that's never going to happen. Canberra/Quenbeyan has 450,000 people and about 18,000 registered grassroots players, so it's a more viable candidate than the other two, but it's still not going to be a big team.

Unless the fans are unusually passionate and are willing to turn up to the games, they are going to end up the same - teams that, at best, can attract about 8,000-10,000 fans to a game and won't matter much in TV ratings. Gallop is no fool. He will go where the fans and the money are. He'll be looking for things like:

1. Where is there a large grassroots football base? (So the team has a big enough talent pool and fans to draw on)

2. Where is there a large metro market running into the millions that we haven't fully tapped? (So they can generate TV ratings and crowds)

3. Where can we put a team that can generate a new derby? (So that travelling away fans can help to fill the stadium and boost TV ratings, interest and coverage)

To me the only obvious places left that fit all of these criteria well are:

- Auckland: 1.5million people without a football team, in a country of 4.4 million with 100,000 registered players). The Nix played there twice and drew a crowd of 20k and 11k. They play another game there in a few weeks - if they get over 10k again, the market will surely be there for it.

- South East Queensland: 3 million out of 4.5 million Queenslanders live in South East QLD (Brisbane, Gold Coast and surrounds). The rest of QLD only has 1.5 million, none of whom are in a central location big enough to support a team. That would rule out the Fury, but it might rule in another Brisbane team or somewhere nearby. Ipswich is probably too small, though.

Both of these places would create a new derby, both of them would be in a large metro market, and both would tap into a pre-existing grassroots. These (plus maybe a 3rd Sydney team) would be priority number one.



Edited by Lastbroadcast: 15/1/2014 08:59:51 PM

Lake Disappointment Blues FC. Make it happen.

Hutt River Plate
Deportivo Macquarie

Edited by GDeathe: 15/1/2014 09:21:14 PM

I put this link in another thread but it is relevant here also. It provides a snap shot of where football is in the Geelong region.

http://www.g21.com.au/sites/default/files/resources/state_of_play_-_soccer_in_the_g21_region_2013_final_v2.pdf

Not since the NSL days, where we did get averages up to about 13k.
I don't think it's a co-incidence that that happened when both the Eagles & Dockers were rubbish, and the Glory were particularly good, and nearly all the opposition in the NSL were terrible.

Our best season in the NSL was our first, with an average of 9,734.
Current season is sitting at 9,811, but that will probably drop off to around 8.5-9k by the end of the season.



I would agree with this.

come off it... They're from brisbane =; :lol:

Great find! Some highlights:

On second thought, better check with these guys. ;)

With Mandurah are still working on getting an NPL team along with Rockingham?

plan to move there in the next couple of years so could see one day a 2nd WA team in the A-league but just not a 2nd Perth team.

Problem is the current stadium is no where near the rail line and is over at halls head.

if footballwest or FFA were smart they would buy some decent land there now that the market has currently plateau

The only other time Victory has played in Geelong was in the 2007 Pre-Season Cup against the Jets, in front of 8,500 people.

I've finally found some pictures which show the appropriateness of the skinny Kardinia Park for football:

^ Those pics are awesome.

Am I the only one that actually prefers this to the modern box style goal net? I always use this style in fifa, I think it looks mint when the ball hits the net :D


Edited by 4wanderer4: 16/1/2014 03:47:21 PM

i agree about the goals which should be in that shape, its one of those basic things along with dugouts that we will never get.

At least if Geelong ever put in a bid for an A-League license they already have a stadium ready to go. Kardinia may be the wrong shape, but it's probably going to be easier to use that than build one from scratch for the bid.

I know the Geelong Cats obviously use it too, but I've just checked and they'll only play 4 matches during the remainer of the A-League season, so there isn't much overlap at all. The two can easily be scheduled around each other. Plus the stadium is owned by Geelong council, so there shouldn't be any discrepancy.

As expansion I do think the following areas need to be represented

South coast FC - Wollongong area is a big nursery for football talent
Canberra - this area has a women's team - why not the guys
Geelong - a 3rd Victorian team is needed
Auckland - NZ is large enough for 2 teams
Gold Coast - could of been given a better shot by Palmer
Nth qld - the fury seem to have it all sorted now in the qpl
Adelaide 2 - a team in the west of Adelaide is a must
Fremantle - a 2nd WA team is a must like Adelaide & NZ the local derby is a must just look at Sydney's & melbourne's
Central qld - it is a fast growing area & no other code is in the area
Tasmania - only the cricket is in this state & football is a national sport.

This all said & done either they are in the top tier comp with existing teams or a 2nd division as other leagues in the world.

I remember reading somewhere that Eastern Park just of Limeburner's Rd (?) had been identified as a site for a boutique stadium.

I was down there once covering the presentation of one of the Cat's AFL trophy wins to their fans, a groundsman (who, you were right in saying, was in the employ of the Geelong City Council) confirmed that they were holding the event in the carpark, because Victory were holding an open training session inside the stadium the next day!

If the Geelong Council are willing to do that to their adored Cats in their finest hour in deference to a mere training session for another town's A-League side, you can be sure that they'd give a fair go to their own team in terms of stadium access and quality.

Well Darryn Lyons (newly elected mayor) is keen for a license! But there is stiff competition from other areas at the moment, so who knows.

I wouldn't have written off a Heart move, but if they've been bought by the same owners as Storm, then it probably won't happen.

I read that too. It'd have a decent view, like Bluetongue Stadium. But the hardest part is building it. No rugby in Geelong, so no existing rectangular stadium. Unless a joint Geelong football/rugby taskforce got together...

Some interesting news from western sydney.....


http://www.liverpoolchampion.com.au/story/1962945/do-we-sing-for-a-stadium-ned-says-yes/#slide=2
December 11th




http://www.liverpoolchampion.com.au/story/2009627/liverpool-mayor-sees-endless-possibilities/?cs=1465#slide=3
Jan 7th


This kinda seems like the Ipswich situation atm, with a mayor lobbying the government for a new stadium + team. Gotta say though, the Mayor should start looking for new potential owners, I don't think Liverpool are gonna come knocking and giving you their players :lol:

good to see the people at liverpool council are being productive about the possibility of a stadium in liverpool. and yes, saying that were going to get liverpool fc to set up a team here is a piss poor reason for a stadium to be built.

None would provide large attendance figures if that is a criteria. NSW is already over-represented and Victoria is just a basket case with a team that can't get it together and another that hasn't won in 20 games with poor attendances. Keep away from this lot.

With Queensland being the fastest growing and third largest stated with only one team has already proved to have a production line for champion players - so the first choice for expansion has to be in Queensland, no question.

Edited by paulc: 17/1/2014 10:45:22 AM

So Victoria has two sides, one struggling but still going, the other sitting 3rd in the league with 2 titles under its belt and the highest attendances in the league - but the state should be avoided... But Queensland, with two franchises dead and buried due to lack of interest should be the first choice for expansion..? Yep - strong use of logic there.

Two extreme points of view there.
Firstly Vic could easily support another team,it's just a matter of where it goes.
Secondly ,same for QLD.Fury was no worse than Heart in many measures,it just didn't have Owners with money.GCU was well and truly fcuked by Palmer.It did have passionate supporters early on.
CCM,Heart ,WP,PG and even AU have most of their game with sub 10k crowds and often with crowds closer to 5k than 10k.
So starting a new team that averages between 5k &10k is hardly an issue.

End of the day, you would pretty much see Illawarra council bending over backwards to allow a Wollongong team profitability, as it would be the only permanent team in the whole area and They just spent millions on a white elephant stadium! Would you say the same for any other area?

The NSW Government spent the money, not council. The stadium is now controlled by Venues NSW who also have Pirtek and Hunter Stadiums on their books. I'd elect an Illawarra team to get similar stadium deals to WSW and the Jets.

Ahh... there's nothing quite like the sound of a Victorian with a chip on their shoulder.

The reason NSW has four teams is because we have enough of a population base outside Sydney, concentrated into certain areas, to support smaller a-league teams. Victoria doesn't.

Time for some numbers and figures.

NSW/ACT - 7.5 million people, 4 teams.

Sydney - 4.5 million, 2 teams. (Sydney FC, Western Sydney Wanderers)

Rest of NSW/ACT: 3 million, 2 teams. Including:
Newcastle/Hunter - 500,000, 1 team (Newcastle Jets).
Wollongong/Shellharbour/Shoalhaven - 450,000, 0 teams.
Canberra/Quenbeyan - 450,000, 0 teams.
Central Coast = 300,000, 1 team (Central Coast Mariners).


VICTORIA - 5.7 million, 2 teams.

Melbourne - 4.2 million, 2 teams.

Rest of Victoria - 1.5 million, 0 teams.
Geelong - 215,000.
Ballarat - 90,000.
Bendigo - 90,000
etc.

That's why NSW has 4 teams, and Victoria has two. NSW has regions outside the city that are large enough to support a team (but only just). Victoria doesn't have that. That's why it's not a fair comparison. Sydney and Melbourne are similar sized, and they have 2 teams. That's about right.

A third team in Victoria would have to be in Melbourne, but with the Heart underperforming there probably isn't any room for a third right now. A successful Melbourne Heart team (or some other Victorian team like South Melbourne) would basically max out the viable market in Victoria.

As for Queensland:

SOUTH EAST QUEENSLAND: 3.05 million, 1team.
2.1 million in Brisbane -
500,000 on the Gold Coast
the rest in logan, ipswich and the sunshine coast

Rest of Queensland: 1.5 million, 0 teams.
[No location bigger than 120,000. ]

And New Zealand:

NEW ZEALAND: 4.4 million, 1 team.
Auckland region - 1.5 million, 0 teams.
Wellington region, 400,000, 1 team.
Christchurch - 300,000 people, 0 teams.

Auckland has 1.5 million people without a team. The rest of SE Queensland has 1 million. These are the only regions left in the Australia or New Zealand with more than 1 million in a small enough geographical area.


If you take population as a guide to where the next teams will be, the largest regions without a team are (in order):

Auckland
South East Queensland (outside Brisbane)
Canberra/ACT
Wollongong

Given the problems with the AFC and Auckland, SE Queensland is likely to be the next cab off the rank.

Edited by Lastbroadcast: 17/1/2014 01:13:23 PM

Even GCU were third once so what. Half a decade without silverware, a diminishing fan base and another club resembling a country town club without a win in 19 games is not a sign of the future. Coupled with the lowest participation rate in the country the tard state does not deserve priority but the emerging giant in Queensland should. You know, the place where they have the best club ever and looking like picking up yet another piece of silverware this season.

If I had my way, I'd love for it to be built on the site of the current Shell refinery (for those of you unaware, the refinery is being sold).

-Large tract of flat land: check (would've thought it'd make it easier to build on, not to mention it's large enough you could have the training headquarters there too - one stop shop for the club with training facilities and the stadium)
-Right next to public transport: check (Corio railway station is right there - it would need to be upgraded, yes, but the existing rail infrastructure is already in place. A walkway system similar to Etihad and Southern Cross right into the stadium would be perfect!)
-Proximity to bogans: check (if WSW have proven anything, it's that bogans love their sport - with the stadium built in Corio and servicing directly Corio, Norlane and North Shore etc, one would hope it'd bring a lot of them through the gates.)
-Right near the freeway: check (easy access for people from the Western Suburbs of Melbourne should they wish to follow the team)
-Gorgeous location right on the bay: check (currently it looks all industrial, but it is slowly dying off and being redeveloped - will be like Docklands in 50 years time. What better place to put a stadium!?)

Just my 2c, but I'd just love for a team in the city lol.