State FFA Youth Regional Rep Team trials


State FFA Youth Regional Rep Team trials

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Brew
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You can still show without jockeying, jockeying is generally when you are moving back and delaying with a low centre of gravity, whilst showing can be used by forwards or midfielders to force play into a certain area, and is more about your body position.
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the.football.God wrote:
Roar #1 wrote:
the.football.God wrote:
Roar #1 wrote:

Interesting point, you could say Tom Rogic is a great example of the potential of Australian football. He was written off as a footballer because he didn't join the "pathway" as a junior. I honestly believe he is going to be one of our greatest football exports. You would have to think there are a number of kids in Tom's position.

Rogic did go through the pathway (state teams, NTC) right up to the age of 17 (apparently from the ages of 12 to 17 he played in ACT rep teams in their local league and didn't play for a club at all during this period). The problem for him was there was no Canberra NYL team at the end of the pathway and no other NYL team picked him up. He got lucky that the Nike competition came along when it did.

Roar #1 wrote:
We desperately need the A League clubs to include juniors into their set up. We need to get rid of the cliques/ friendships we currently have in junior football. a qualified coach working for the Brisbane Roar u14 team is not going to pick someone because their parents are friendly or because he made the team last year. The Roar would then have a in depth look at the best young players in Brisbane.

I agree. However, it is likely that the same coaches who currently coach rep teams and state teams would be the ones coaching junior teams for the A-League clubs.


I thought I heard that he was never selected, told he wasn't good enough. Anyway, he still could have been lost forever if the Nike thing didn't come along, kind of worrying really, as I said before, I believe he will be one of our greatest football exports.


Rogic did trial for the AIS but wasn’t offered a full scholarship. I saw him play at nationals in Coffs and the NTC and to be honest he wasn’t a stand out. There were a few players from his state team that were picked for a scholarship and at that age they were better than him. The FFA nowadays doesn’t cater at all for a late bloomer like Rogic. A little known story is that Rogic played in a youth exhibition match in Canberra before a Mariners friendly which was designed for the Mariners to look at the local youth and offer players trials for their NYL team. Rogic wasn’t identified. He also played a friendly against the Sydney FC youth team but he wasn’t identified then either. A few months later he wins the Nike competition and all of a sudden the Mariners are interested.


I can see Rogic being disadvantaged by being born in December. How exactly is he a late bloomer though. I saw him playing in a video of the grand final between Belconnen and Canberra in 2011 and he was a stand out then at 18. The only issue I see is I thought he was much older at the time in his early 20's maybe others did not realise his age otherwise I would have started a sign him up thread. He was a star for the Futsalroos at age 17 in Feb 2010. What year did he go for an AIS scolarship? The issue I see with the AIS these days is they get players way too early at 15 so they can prepare for the AFC u16 championship which is a joke anyway as when I watched it Iran and Uzbekistan looked to have a lot of older players with beards. The whole attraction of the AIS is they offer full board , A-league youth teams offer very little money not enough to move cities. If anything they should allow the AIS A-league youth team to pick up some older locals to reinforce their team.

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He is a late bloomer for the FFA's national system and since he lived where there wasn't an A-League club it meant he was initially missed by almost everyone. I agree he is not really a late bloomer because he was still a teen when he emerged but it was too late to make a joeys/AIS team. I’ve been told he did a short term training stint in late 08/early 09 but wasn’t offered a scholarship, they often invite local Canberra or Country NSW kids to train during periods when they are low on numbers due to players returning home at the end of their scholarship or being offered a NYL contract. Now that nationals is 13s and 14s it makes it even harder for a December born player like Rogic. The FFA has made a big deal about saying they want to remove the relative age effect but their actions of making nationals age groups younger and identifying players earlier only exacerbates the problem. The best players in that mid teens age bracket still have a long way to go but at the moment we put all our efforts into a very small group at those ages.

I would say the AIS used to be like a finishing school and it used to be all about the individual. The players would typically come in as 17 year olds and when they left went straight into first team football. Now they are going in as 15 year olds and when they leave they are going to youth teams and could potentially still be a couple of years from the first team and in that time a lot can happen and a lot of them won't make it.

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Decentric wrote:
the.football.God wrote:


Parents are always going to complain. Often you get the parents of the worst kid at the trial complaining. There may have been 30 kids ahead of him in the pecking order but they won't see that. I like to always have a small report prepared for each unsuccessful trialist. Usually each selector will have a group of players that they are responsible for writing the report for and will use what the other selectors have noted to compile their report. It gives a lot more credibility to your feedback and selections if you can tell them 4 or 5 experienced coaches have contributed to it.



Yes, they will complain.

I'm happy to talk to them. Again all part and parcel of being an infant teacher. I talk to parents every night after school informally as an infant teacher. Usually, telling them good news about their children.

I am extremely confident in this role. I enjoy jousting with bullying parents who have sometimes got away with bullying some diffident colleagues.

If parents asked me to expound about coaching cues and player actions, at this point in time, that is a different story!#-o

Edited by Decentric: 7/3/2013 09:17:30 PM

Having read some of your battles with Chips I have no doubt that you would be confident in dealing with complaining parents. Even when people offer alternatives to you on this forum you easily come up with a paragraph detailing your point of view and why you did what you did. I maintain that you should have more than just 2 selectors for a representative trial. I'm used to often dealing with 50-60 players at trials but even with 30 players I would still want more than 2. Better to be safe than sorry.
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Decentric wrote:
Brew wrote:
My idea of 1v1 functional game skills
1v1 attacking - moves, being able to beat players in a 1v1, identifying when and where to use which move, shielding, change of pace/direction, deception
1v1 defending - intercepting the ball, tackling (various types of tackling - block, poke etc), jockeying, showing

But it is important that we see the technique and the insight not just the physical aspects i.e. speed, strength as these always change by the time players are 18.



Brew, in terms of jockeying and showing, my understanding has been that showing is part of jockeying.

I've thought that jockeying is the general term used for delaying and trying to position attackers in BP. Often trying to move them onto their weakest foot, or the part of the pitch where the player in possession of the ball can be least effective, when one's team is in BPO.

For an example of excellent showing watch the Spanish national futsal team, they are brilliant at it. They use the theory of not pressing the players but pressing their passing lanes. It is part of the 'strong side, weak side' concept. In particular they are extremely good at stepping into the passing lane of the square pass to prevent the switch and from there they use the sideline to suffocate the opponent and force a turnover, much like a forward does when the opposition plays out from the back.
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my advise is have a look at the talent when they had thier 2nd growth spurt..
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the.football.God wrote:
Decentric wrote:
the.football.God wrote:


Parents are always going to complain. Often you get the parents of the worst kid at the trial complaining. There may have been 30 kids ahead of him in the pecking order but they won't see that. I like to always have a small report prepared for each unsuccessful trialist. Usually each selector will have a group of players that they are responsible for writing the report for and will use what the other selectors have noted to compile their report. It gives a lot more credibility to your feedback and selections if you can tell them 4 or 5 experienced coaches have contributed to it.



Yes, they will complain.

I'm happy to talk to them. Again all part and parcel of being an infant teacher. I talk to parents every night after school informally as an infant teacher. Usually, telling them good news about their children.

I am extremely confident in this role. I enjoy jousting with bullying parents who have sometimes got away with bullying some diffident colleagues.

If parents asked me to expound about coaching cues and player actions, at this point in time, that is a different story!#-o

Edited by Decentric: 7/3/2013 09:17:30 PM

I maintain that you should have more than just 2 selectors for a representative trial. I'm used to often dealing with 50-60 players at trials but even with 30 players I would still want more than 2. Better to be safe than sorry.



With 50 -60 players, that is a large number to observe.

Why I am saying that with two observers, we selected the right squad with over 30, is because over the years I've spoken to some very experienced state coaches. They say even when they have had four selectors, the same parents still complain.

The parents who complain often fit a generic type where their behaviour extrapolates into other areas external to football. The 2 person selection squad was set up by state FFA. My FFA staff partner was very quick to identify players' ability in the first session. He is very experienced and has played pro football. With my limited experience at trials, we would have needed another three of us, as you suggest we should have had.

Sometimes with four selectors there may be more scope for disagreement too, unless they have worked together quite a lot prior.
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The simplest way to save time for familes etc is for the selectors to be up front and tell the players that we are looking for eg only 4 spots etc and not give false expectations.
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the.football.God wrote:
Decentric wrote:
the.football.God wrote:
@ Decentric. Did you only have just the 2 selectors? You really should be having more than that. Even if ultimately it is only 1 or 2 of you who are going to be making the final decisions, the more eyes watching the lower the chance you will miss something. You also have to remember the perception of the players and the parents. Having only 2 selectors leads to claims of bias and nepotism but if you have 4 or more there it is hard to make those claims.




I have checked with other very experienced rep coaches and even with four selectors, parents still complain if their child misses out!!!

There always seems to be controversy amongst parents. From a teaching perspective in some schools there are some parents who are used to going to the top to see if they can get what they want for their child. Often people in positions of superordinance in the upper echelons of the workforce who tell other people what to do all day! Professionals who should know better, often cave in if pushy parents consider going to a higher authority. This scenario replicates itself in football.



I think we are almost above reproach in terms of bias. We had specific criteria. I was almost a total stranger to most of the group. I checked with the FFA staff coach if I was selecting a player I had coached prior, to see if he shared my appraisals.

We agreed without equivocation on the final 16. Nevertheless, it took until the last 5 minutes of the second session to arrive at the final squad.

Edited by Decentric: 7/3/2013 04:06:10 PM

Even if you have 2 completely unbiased and highly experienced and qualified selectors its always better to have a few selectors. Having extra eyes on the field can only help. What happens if an extra dozen kids show up that you weren't expecting?




You are correct, Football God.

Four pairs of eyes are better than two. We missed a player in the selection trials.

My state FFA partner sent a letter to a player , saying he had been successful. He turned up to training and I broke the news to him and his mother, apologising profusely . I invited him to train anyway.

I got the shock of my life!!!!!!!#-o

He trained and played as well as anybody else in the squad.#-o

How was I going to live with myself, missing a player who should have been selected in the squad?](*,) We missed him alright. One of the team mangers said parents who had known him for a while, were amazed we hadn't selected him.


Luckily , two players, absentees from training, who had been selected, declined, when I contacted them tonight. . Phew!!!! I was glad my FFA partner had sent the letter. Otherwise this player would not have been at training.

Thankfully, he is now in the squad.

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Pistola wrote:
The simplest way to save time for familes etc is for the selectors to be up front and tell the players that we are looking for eg only 4 spots etc and not give false expectations.


We discussed this today.

As a parent, if your child had been selected, or deemed unsuitable, from the first session, would you rather have known after the first trial, when there was a second trial?
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Pistola wrote:
my advise is have a look at the talent when they had thier 2nd growth spurt..


You can see some kids being clumsy at this stage.

In a few years time, things would be different.
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Decentric wrote:
the.football.God wrote:
Decentric wrote:
the.football.God wrote:
@ Decentric. Did you only have just the 2 selectors? You really should be having more than that. Even if ultimately it is only 1 or 2 of you who are going to be making the final decisions, the more eyes watching the lower the chance you will miss something. You also have to remember the perception of the players and the parents. Having only 2 selectors leads to claims of bias and nepotism but if you have 4 or more there it is hard to make those claims.




I have checked with other very experienced rep coaches and even with four selectors, parents still complain if their child misses out!!!

There always seems to be controversy amongst parents. From a teaching perspective in some schools there are some parents who are used to going to the top to see if they can get what they want for their child. Often people in positions of superordinance in the upper echelons of the workforce who tell other people what to do all day! Professionals who should know better, often cave in if pushy parents consider going to a higher authority. This scenario replicates itself in football.



I think we are almost above reproach in terms of bias. We had specific criteria. I was almost a total stranger to most of the group. I checked with the FFA staff coach if I was selecting a player I had coached prior, to see if he shared my appraisals.

We agreed without equivocation on the final 16. Nevertheless, it took until the last 5 minutes of the second session to arrive at the final squad.

Edited by Decentric: 7/3/2013 04:06:10 PM

Even if you have 2 completely unbiased and highly experienced and qualified selectors its always better to have a few selectors. Having extra eyes on the field can only help. What happens if an extra dozen kids show up that you weren't expecting?




You are correct, Football God.

Four pairs of eyes are better than two. We missed a player in the selection trials.

My state FFA partner sent a letter to a player , saying he had been successful. He turned up to training and I broke the news to him and his mother, apologising profusely . I invited him to train anyway.

I got the shock of my life!!!!!!!#-o

He trained and played as well as anybody else in the squad.#-o

How was I going to live with myself, missing a player who should have been selected in the squad?](*,) We missed him alright. One of the team mangers said parents who had known him for a while, were amazed we hadn't selected him.


Luckily , two players, absentees from training, who had been selected, declined, when I contacted them tonight. . Phew!!!! I was glad my FFA partner had sent the letter. Otherwise this player would not have been at training.

Thankfully, he is now in the squad.

At least you can admit you made a mistake in your selections and have given the kid a second chance. A lot of coaches would be too stubborn to admit their error and the kid would miss out.
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