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Bender Parma
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Decentric,
I havent watched as many games as you have, in fact i only really watched Tuggeranong which was a bad example, because they were completely thrashed, although they did try to keep it on the deck and play some good football.
But, i dont see how you can say that results of the FFA cup support a concept that the A League is creating some type of standard that is untouchable. We all know that Adelaide City beat the Wanderers. Sure, you can write this off as a one off, but to be honest, i cant remember all that many A league clubs producing that one off in what by my calculations must be close to 6 games or more now. I could be way off here, but how many clubs have ever beaten the wanderers. Even a few asian sides would have never done the trick i would have thought. Still, it may not have been a full strength side? Although Popovic is bigger on squads rather than teams so that may not even mean that much.
IN other games, Brisbane Olympic were right in the game against Central Coast Mariners. At least that is what seems to be the case from following the scores. There is of course going to be a difference between a full time trainer and a part time trainer although it is nowhere near as large as it should be and certainly not insurmountable. It shouldnt be forgotten that the aleague has 20 good players per team with 12 teams they have 250 of the best players in the country. THe NPL has to split the next best 250 players between 7 different teams (one for each state) of 250 players. NOt forgetting that Because the pay isnt anything really spectacular, that quite often the many of these best players dont feel like training at all, and dont even play or try to play in the best competitions in the state. It is impossible to find and scout these talents. But, if you could magically weave a wand and find the best 20 players and train them full time professionally, i see no reason why you couldnt win and even dominate the ALeague. Particularly if you add a couple of Marquees and imports. Realistically though, with the best players spread over so many different teams, of course the A league is going to look to be a standard above them. The fact is though, if the NPL sides play their best, get a bit of luck and all things go well, they will beat the A League side. IF you took the NPL finalists and threw them into the A League (particularly if they trained full time), at the end of the year, they would all struggle and finish last. But, i am willing to bet substantially that they would not finish on zero points.
I cant wait to watch the first NPL game which has it sides play a more traditional Australian game against the new fandangled 4-3-3. Normally the long game is boring to watch and play, but i must admit, i would love to see a proper 4-4-2 structure played behind a long ball to the corners with no mistakes in your own half theory. Such a structure can work wonders with the most mediocre players. I think that most A league sides will struggle if one of the top NPL sides employs such a game plan and executes it properly. This new curriculum is okay and i think the Roar are or have been the best club side i have seen in Australia. But, from what i can see, the new system has some glaring weaknesses in that Australian sides are not good enough to play with one striker, Defences are far too shallow, and there is far too much ball watching encouraged(or at least it seems to have been deprioritised). Admittedly the pro's do seem to outweigh the cons, but there is definitely a happy medium which can still be found, imo.
Back to the point, i dont think that gulf in class in the current NPL is any more or less than what it was back in the NSL days. Though, i do think that the Sydney and Melbourne comps seem to have dropped off for the simple reason that isnt just Tassie that seems to be stepping up to their level. Brisbane also seem to have more than competed with NSW and Vic Clubs adn i dare say that Perth and Adelaide clubs will do the same.
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Slobodan Drauposevic
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What's the current estimate on crowd figures for the United-SFC match? Just heard of Fox that it's a sellout, but I jsut checked and there's still tickets available.
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melbourne_terrace
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"I'm even surprised teams like South Melbourne and Sydney United have serious fans who follow them everywhere. For some Bitters to support these clubs to the exclusion of HAL clubs is perplexing. It is basically like watching pub football compared to the HAL." Yeah see statements like that just show you don't actually know much about supporting a football club, you sound like you've been listening to the FFA too much. Labelling supporters of South Melbourne and SU58 as bitters because they don't want to watch any club other than their club makes them normal Football supporters ffs. If Melbourne Victory got kicked out of the A-League and started playing state league football instead, I would continue to watch Melbourne Victory exclusively and not give a fuck about any new team the FFA set up. Real fans are supporters of their clubs, not the standard of football. Otherwise people might as well just stick to watching the Champions League. "South Hobart, Sydney United and South Melbourne are all similar standard." Now this is just wrong, you have made this assumption on the basis of two games played in Tasmania, I don't know why they looked so in-cohesive and out of touch on the day but had these games been played outside of Tasmania then the result could be very very different. Anyone can beat anyone on the day, that's the joy of Football, but South Hobart would be relegated from the NPLV and NPL NSW.
Viennese Vuck
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SydneyCroatia
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Quote:
I'm even surprised teams like South Melbourne and Sydney United have serious fans who follow them everywhere. For some Bitters to support these clubs to the exclusion of HAL clubs is perplexing. It is basically like watching pub football compared to the HAL. It's really quite simple - most football fans dont support clubs based on the quality of their football. Are you suggesting that every fan in Australia should support Brisbane?
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Blackmac79
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For someone who usually makes reasonable comments. That was a fucking stupid thing to say decentric.
So should all English fans support the premier league? Not the 20+ leagues beneath it?
Should all Germans support the bundesliga?
Ffs, congratulations to those fans still supporting the old NSL clubs. True fans.
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19-SU-58
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Heineken wrote:torcida90 wrote:Apparently 4k tickets have been sold online for SU vs SFC. Can some of the PAX experts say what the likely crowd will be as a result? PAX isn't on the tickets, but with walkups could probably be closer to 10k than 5 I'd reckon. over 4k online sales...as of last week. the club has been selling hard copies at king tom club, not sure how many have sold... but at one stage they ran out of tickets and had to print off more. all coproate boxes etc have been sold, which are not included in the online sales. 6-8k maybe more, depending on how many come through the gates on the night.
Not a Phase, Not a Trend, SYDNEY UNITED till the END!
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italyrules
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Decentric wrote:Yesterday I watched the South Hobart/ South Melbournce clash at Darcy St, South Hobart.
South Melbourne won 1-0.
SM were on top in the first 5 minutes.
After that it was a very even game. Either side could've won. Either Tassie football is getting stronger, or, the Victorian and NSW NPLs are getting weaker. None of the SM Melbunian based side looked good enough for the A League, apart from Matthew Theodore. Milos Lujic used his body well in physical clashes, but overall, South Melbourne struggled to contain South Hobart's Andy Brennam and his mazy runs, devoid of game sense.
South Hobart's Liam Scott displayed excellent handling speed, good body shape on both sides when receiving. He found the right moment to cut inside, or pass inside, or break the line of his opponent by using his left foot, opening his body more effectively. He is a right footer that Ken Morton plays at left back.
Scott also passed well in tight spaces and limited time. Apparently he was a HAL triallist a few years ago. If he had had an agent he would've had at least a youth HAL contract. Scott was also effective in terms of when to tackle and when when to back off defensively and maintain team shape as part of a cohesive and collective defensive unit.
Our local referee, was quite frankly, shocking.](*,) :roll:
One of the things that one HAL coach has said, is that the gap between the NPL and HAL is too great for many players to bridge . Last year, Sydney United, and this year, South Melbourne, were similar quality to South Hobart.
In the past our best teams have expected to be thrashed by the better NPL teams in Victoria and NSW. Either they are much worse, or senior football in this state has progressed immeasurably. South Hobart, Sydney United and South Melbourne are all similar standard.
The better HAL clubs play them in mid season, they are simply too good. Upsets may occur, like Adelaide City beating WSW, but the NPL clubs have so many faults that need correcting.
This is technically and game sense with their players, handling speed , first touch, 1v1 attacking skills, running with the ball, passing and receiving whilst moving, incorrect body shape.
It is also in terms of team football - cohesion, the four main moments of the game, positional play ( attacking and defending), proactive support for the player on the ball in Ball Possession, slow decision making, creating more effective movement off the ball.
I'm even surprised teams like South Melbourne and Sydney United have serious fans who follow them everywhere. For some Bitters to support these clubs to the exclusion of HAL clubs is perplexing. It is basically like watching pub football compared to the HAL. The professional league has really improved football in Australia. These games in the FFA Cup demonstrate the chasm in standard that exists.
Edited by Decentric: 21/9/2014 10:03:11 PM Sydney United had a draw with Wellington Phoenix last week and were clearly the better team on the night. Phoenix scored an early goal and after that it was all United. Sure it was a friendly but I can tell you Ernie was getting agitated on the sideline. In saying all that, off course the HAL is a better standard then the NPL but give the NPL clubs due credit, they operate on a shoe string budget with NO financial support from the FFA unlike the HAL clubs who still receive money from junior rego fees. And the biggest sting is the lack of compensation for any player who comes through the ranks of an NPL club and goes on to play in the A league . Considering all of the above, I'm surprised that the gap between NPL and HAL is not even bigger than it is.
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SydneyCroatia
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italyrules wrote:Decentric wrote:Yesterday I watched the South Hobart/ South Melbournce clash at Darcy St, South Hobart.
South Melbourne won 1-0.
SM were on top in the first 5 minutes.
After that it was a very even game. Either side could've won. Either Tassie football is getting stronger, or, the Victorian and NSW NPLs are getting weaker. None of the SM Melbunian based side looked good enough for the A League, apart from Matthew Theodore. Milos Lujic used his body well in physical clashes, but overall, South Melbourne struggled to contain South Hobart's Andy Brennam and his mazy runs, devoid of game sense.
South Hobart's Liam Scott displayed excellent handling speed, good body shape on both sides when receiving. He found the right moment to cut inside, or pass inside, or break the line of his opponent by using his left foot, opening his body more effectively. He is a right footer that Ken Morton plays at left back.
Scott also passed well in tight spaces and limited time. Apparently he was a HAL triallist a few years ago. If he had had an agent he would've had at least a youth HAL contract. Scott was also effective in terms of when to tackle and when when to back off defensively and maintain team shape as part of a cohesive and collective defensive unit.
Our local referee, was quite frankly, shocking.](*,) :roll:
One of the things that one HAL coach has said, is that the gap between the NPL and HAL is too great for many players to bridge . Last year, Sydney United, and this year, South Melbourne, were similar quality to South Hobart.
In the past our best teams have expected to be thrashed by the better NPL teams in Victoria and NSW. Either they are much worse, or senior football in this state has progressed immeasurably. South Hobart, Sydney United and South Melbourne are all similar standard.
The better HAL clubs play them in mid season, they are simply too good. Upsets may occur, like Adelaide City beating WSW, but the NPL clubs have so many faults that need correcting.
This is technically and game sense with their players, handling speed , first touch, 1v1 attacking skills, running with the ball, passing and receiving whilst moving, incorrect body shape.
It is also in terms of team football - cohesion, the four main moments of the game, positional play ( attacking and defending), proactive support for the player on the ball in Ball Possession, slow decision making, creating more effective movement off the ball.
I'm even surprised teams like South Melbourne and Sydney United have serious fans who follow them everywhere. For some Bitters to support these clubs to the exclusion of HAL clubs is perplexing. It is basically like watching pub football compared to the HAL. The professional league has really improved football in Australia. These games in the FFA Cup demonstrate the chasm in standard that exists.
Edited by Decentric: 21/9/2014 10:03:11 PM Sydney United had a draw with Wellington Phoenix last week and were clearly the better team on the night. Phoenix scored an early goal and after that it was all United. Sure it was a friendly but I can tell you Ernie was getting agitated on the sideline. In saying all that, off course the HAL is a better standard then the NPL but give the NPL clubs due credit, they operate on a shoe string budget with NO financial support from the FFA unlike the HAL clubs who still receive money from junior rego fees. And the biggest sting is the lack of compensation for any player who comes through the ranks of an NPL club and goes on to play in the A league . Considering all of the above, I'm surprised that the gap between NPL and HAL is not even bigger than it is. There have been plenty of friendly victories for NSWPL sides over A-League sides in the last few years. Off the top of my head: Sutherland beat SFC 3-0 United beat WSW 2-1 Olympic beat SFC 1-0 Obviously you cant read too much into friendlies, but if the gap is as large as Decentric likes to suggest then you'd expect A-league sides to easily account for State League sides even with their reserves
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TheSelectFew
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How quickly people forget AC 1-0 WSW :cool:
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scotty21
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TheSelectFew wrote:How quickly people forget AC 1-0 WSW :cool: You know how WSW and in particular the RBB like to claim that they seem to be the first to do a lot of things when it comes to footballing achievements in Australia. Well did you know that WSW are the first A-League team to lose to a Semi Pro club in the FFA cup.
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paladisious
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scotty21 wrote:TheSelectFew wrote:How quickly people forget AC 1-0 WSW :cool: You know how WSW and in particular the RBB like to claim that they seem to be the first to do a lot of things when it comes to footballing achievements in Australia. Well did you know that WSW are the first A-League team to lose to a Semi Pro club in the FFA cup. #thingsrbbinvented
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19-SU-58
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paladisious
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Odd, wiki has the draw date for the Quarter Finals as tomorrow, the 23rd of September, which is obviously the second Round of 16 match day . I suppose it's possible that they'd do it straight after the game as part of the broadcast, but that doesn't sound right to me. Does anyone have better information than this?
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marconi101
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paladisious wrote:Odd, wiki has the draw date for the Quarter Finals as tomorrow, the 23rd of September, which is obviously the second Round of 16 match day . I suppose it's possible that they'd do it straight after the game as part of the broadcast, but that doesn't sound right to me. Does anyone have better information than this? I recall Zappas saying something about doing the draw after the games were finished last week
He was a man of specific quirks. He believed that all meals should be earned through physical effort. He also contended, zealously like a drunk with a political point, that the third dimension would not be possible if it werent for the existence of water.
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SydneyCroatia
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Yep, draw is done tomorrow
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paladisious
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Herald sun wrote:[size=6] Missing two players, South Springvale still hoping to extend giant-killing run against Palm Beach[/size] MATT WINDLEY HERALD SUN SEPTEMBER 21, 2014 10:00PM  Alex Florea and Andrew Skledar fool around in the water at Mordialloc beach.SOUTH Springvale soccer players enjoying their 15 minutes of fame were just excited to score a free trip to the Gold Coast. But Aris vice-captain Andrew Skledar insists his team is intent on causing another FFA Cup upset, this time against Queensland champions Palm Beach Sharks on Tuesday night. South Springvale, a third-tier Victorian club, is the Cinderella story of the first-ever FFA Cup having defeated Newcastle-based South Cardiff on penalties in the Round of 32 last month. Its players will fly north on Monday for the match of their lives at Cbus Super Stadium, the home of NRL side Gold Coast Titans. The realities of amateurs participating in a professional competition are evident in the fact that two South Springvale players, Darragh Ryan and Billy Damianos, were unable to get time off work to play Tuesday night. But Skledar said that those that do make the trip will have their minds on the job — and not an end-of-season party — against the Sharks. "It's all fun on the side," Skledar said. "But once we cross that white line we're definitely there to make a statement and take it right up to them. "We definitely won't be fearing them. We've got nothing to lose because they're expected to win. Hopefully that gives them a false sense of security and plays in to our hands a little bit." Skledar said the club's entire focus had been on this game since it lost the final of the Victorian knockout competition, the Dockerty Cup, to Melbourne Knights on August 31. Almost the entire starting line-up was rested from Saturday's final league game against Malvern City. "We weren't positioned that highly in the league, we knew that was finished, so we've pretty much been preparing for this game," Skledar said. "It's going to be interesting to see how we go. Obviously Bentleigh Greens have done really well so maybe that shows that Victorian soccer is pretty strong."
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TheSelectFew
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Yeah it is. Making tomorrow extra fap worthy.
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azzaMVFC
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Can't wait to see my first FFA Cup match live tomorrow night. Will be a cracking 24 degrees in Melbourne too, I reckon they might get a decent turnout. Beers and chevaps in the sun
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aufc_ole
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Gutted I can't make it to the game tomorrow night
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TheSelectFew
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azzaMVFC wrote:Can't wait to see my first FFA Cup match live tomorrow night. Will be a cracking 24 degrees in Melbourne too, I reckon they might get a decent turnout. Beers and chevaps in the sun Tempted to pop by.
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melbourne_terrace
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Blackmac79 wrote:For someone who usually makes reasonable comments. That was a fucking stupid thing to say decentric.
So should all English fans support the premier league? Not the 20+ leagues beneath it?
Should all Germans support the bundesliga?
Ffs, congratulations to those fans still supporting the old NSL clubs. True fans. This. Ridiculous attitude, we should be happy we have fans staying loyal to their teams despite the drop.
Viennese Vuck
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Heineken
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King Tom club will be closed after the game tomorrow night. So anybody who has ideas of getting pissed afterwards will have to find someplace else. Apparently they're scared and covering their own arses in case shit kicks off.
WOLLONGONG WOLVES FOR A-LEAGUE EXPANSION!
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torcida90
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This weekend and last weekend (yesterday) would have been perfect for weekend games.
Season over for State league teams (except for NPL finals which can be easily moved) and still pre-season for A-League, which means no impact on scheduling.
No NRL or AFL games on Sundays, meaning Fox has nothing to show on Sundays.
Plus, perfect spring weather for the fairweather neutrals to come out and watch.
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Slobodan Drauposevic
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Heineken wrote:King Tom club will be closed after the game tomorrow night. So anybody who has ideas of getting pissed afterwards will have to find someplace else.
Apparently they're scared and covering their own arses in case shit kicks off. Dem lockouts. So, who from the forums is actually going to the United-FC match? Draupnir Heine Eastern Glory SydneyCroatia 19-SU-58 Scouse (I assume?) Carnts add yourself.
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BRFC_92
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Draupnir wrote:Heineken wrote:King Tom club will be closed after the game tomorrow night. So anybody who has ideas of getting pissed afterwards will have to find someplace else.
Apparently they're scared and covering their own arses in case shit kicks off. Dem lockouts. So, who from the forums is actually going to the United-FC match? Draupnir Heine Eastern Glory SydneyCroatia 19-SU-58 Scouse (I assume?) Carnts add yourself. I was gonna go, but I don't think I will anymore. Kinda poor at the moment, and would rather keep up with the Brisbane game.
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SydneyCroatia
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Heineken wrote:King Tom club will be closed after the game tomorrow night. So anybody who has ideas of getting pissed afterwards will have to find someplace else.
Apparently they're scared and covering their own arses in case shit kicks off. Not true. Closure has been enforced by boys in blue.
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TheSelectFew
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If there aren't flares or pitch invasions the whole cup is a failure.
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Reedy
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Poppin' my FFA Cup cherry tomorrow night.
I have a question though that hopefully someone here can help me out with. My mates bought tickets for the SU58 v SFC game through the SFC club members presale. I didn't and now am just trying to buy tickets from the SU website. Their tickets don't really say what section they are sitting in, and the only options are "Cat C Adult" and "Away Active" (there are the stand options but we won't be in those I'm assuming). Is it reasonable to assume that since they bought their tickets through the club, they would be in "Away Active" or "Cat C"? Or has this whole post been pointless as it will be a general admission type situation and both will be accessible to punters anyway?
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Blackmac79
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Blackmac will be hiding around the ground. Perhaps even in the King tom before hand too.
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Heineken
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SydneyCroatia wrote:Heineken wrote:King Tom club will be closed after the game tomorrow night. So anybody who has ideas of getting pissed afterwards will have to find someplace else.
Apparently they're scared and covering their own arses in case shit kicks off. Not true. Closure has been enforced by boys in blue. Huh? :-s
WOLLONGONG WOLVES FOR A-LEAGUE EXPANSION!
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