I'll have to agree to disagree with you on question of the fairness of the Australian political system and on the Dismissal (although I agree with many of Gough's policies and I think he had integrity) ;)

As regards, Hillary Clinton. Exactly. The US got stuck with Trump as a result of the Democrats going with her. She did have legit political qualifications, imo, unlike Michelle Obama (at present). However, she also had done a few things to make her unappealing to people who aren't card-carrying Democrats.

Events such as Bosnia, supporting the Iraq War, arguably Benghazi and the list of donors to the Clintons really didn't help her cause. Christopher Hitchens used to tear shreds from her

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrzyVt1lbpo

If I were American, I'd have voted for Hillary. But only through gritted teeth. So her nomination likely discouraged many swing-voters and usual Republicans from supporting the Democrats. Her nomination probably also didn't even get as many Democrats to turn out as might otherwise have been the case, imo.

Yeah, if Michelle Obama wants to run, hopefully, she gets some runs on the board as a governor or a senator or something. Although Hitchens was rather critical of her college dissertation, too. But I do think she's reasonable.

I wouldn't mind if somebody like Samantha Power ran for president. Although, she might require more domestic policy experience (as a senator or governor), too. She's great on the international stage, however.

Sanders would have been America's Whitlam.

Actually, in a way, he kind of was, because his opportunity for leading his country was also taken away from him by a shit system that passes as a democracy but without any input from the people at large in 2016 and 2020, just as it was for Whitlam in 1975.

I share your view regarding Michelle, I am sure she is a very intelligent and capable woman, but being the spouse of a former President isn't a suitable qualification to ask for a vote. I think Hillary might have poisoned the well on that one for the Dems; she had plenty of legit political qualifications but was seen by voters as a party elite. Thanks to that we now have Trump. Mind you though if Michelle had a term as governor of Illinois first I'd be all ears.

Honestly not sure if he'll live that long.

Agree on Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren.

I think lots of people (myself included) underestimated the extent to which many people in the United States erroneously conflate the the politics of Sanders and Warren with the Marxist-Leninist version of “socialism”. They’d probably consider Aussie politicians on the centre-right to be socialist. Staggering. Trump was clever in suggesting that Biden is Trojan Horse for “socialism”. Such a McCathyist way to trick Americans. It has played upon people’s misplaced fears (e.g. some Latinos who fled socialist dictatorships). It’s nuts. Biden’s about as socialist as right-leaning ALP or left-leaning Aussie Lib.

Warren and Sanders would be fine in Australia. And they might get more votes than Biden did in California and NY. But people in other parts would be terrified that they are actual Commies.

Not sure about Michelle Obama as candidate. Maybe she’d have done better than Biden. But she has never held public office (as was the case with Trump). She was an adored First Lady. But imo that doesn’t qualify her to be President of the United States. It would tokenism on another level. The US needs to move past that. It only exacerbates there many problems.

This is way america is always at the brink of having their government shut down. Hyper partisan politics on both sides.

But they're challenging Georgia.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-when-georgia-result-lawsuit-biden-vote-count-b1602364.html

Yeah but big reforms like medicare and anything to do with raising taxes or dealing with emissions is probably out.

Don't forget that they vote across party lines all the time in the US, so although it makes life harder for the Dems, they'll only have to come up with legislation that tempts one or two Senators to flip, as the Senate race is so close.

Duly noted. Never said it was dumb haha. Just that Trump needs one hell of a Hail Mary to take Nevada from here.

Chas Liccardiello (from Planet America, and famous from the Chaser’s War on Everything) says that if the Democrats win Georgia, any legal challenge for other states becomes pointless.

See.  My bet not looking so dumb now.

One would imagine.

I'm hoping Bet365 don't hold onto my potential winnings until Inauguration Day lol

Yeah, the double standards from Donald Trump. But Arizona is a bit perplexing. The Associated Press had called it. My suggestion that the Democrats need only win one of Georgia, Pennsylvania or Nevada is predicted on the assumption that the Democrats have already won Arizona.

Dunno.

This is from their website.  (Trump now $5 which is interesting.)  

US Presidential Election 2020
Bets will be settled on the outcome of the 59th United States Presidential Election, bets will stand if election date is postponed/result is delayed from 3 November 2020 (US time). All in betting. $25 Trump max bet applies.

No idea how Biden will get much done.

4 years of Mitch McConnell cock blocking everything that the Dems put up.

(If Biden wins.)

Does that include if he wins via Courts?

I don’t think there will be an immediate exodus but do think there could be people moving from Washington, Oregon, California and NY to red states.

Covid is of course in play and the wearing of masks. I don’t imagine Trump will be allowed to have the kind of rallies we have just seen. Dems may try to shut them down.

Delivering to Trump supporters- if it means taking away energy jobs there may be backlash.

I work in the energy sector and it’s not just so at we can flick a switch and turn everything green. The infrastructure will take years to build. And you have very strong unions.

That’s gold

Sounds like they’re running a betting agency like how Trump runs a casino.

Trump gaining on Biden in Arizona, it's not over down there (that's why it's ok to keep counting).

Assuming that Biden wins that will be the problem. He will be 78 when inaugurated this time. 82 in 4 years time and 86 and the end of that term. Biden has virtually put the Obama coalition back together. The Cubans in Florida came out for Trump by labelling dems Marxist.

I think the only person that would have done a better job this time would have been Micelle Obama - but she was adamant she wouldn't stand.

But therein lies the problem. Biden will have to expand the democratic coalition by delivering for the Trump supporters. Trump in this election has more supporters than any previous president. That is a lot of people that will go into the next four years thinking that the last 4 years was the first time anyone listened to them. 

Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren may have gotten more votes in California or NY - but they would have lost the mid-west. I can't imagine Biden running again but also do not think that Harris would necessarily win in 4 years time.  

How much division will occur if Trump campaigns for 4 years questioning the democratic process?

(If he losses and then runs for 2024)

Hard to imagine Biden will still be president given his decline. Harris imo will still have to go up against M Obama imo.

Will we witness mass migration within the US?

This is where the vote count stands in Pennsylvania

From CNN's Josiah Ryan

With 71% of mail-in ballots counted in Pennsylvania, officials still needs to count 763,000 of the 2.6 million cast, according to the state’s official website and reporting from CNN's Kristen Holmes.Major updates are expected from both Philadelphia County, the largest in the state, and Allegheny County, home to Pittsburgh, before the night is over, Holmes reported.In Philadelphia County, a major Democratic stronghold, 120,000 mail-in ballots remain uncounted. Seventy percent of those ballots were cast by registered Democrats while 20% were cast by registered Republicans. 

🤣🤣

Only was a matter of time before lunatics with guns turned up somewhere.  

https://7news.com.au/politics/world-politics/us-election-2020-protesters-swarm-maricopa-county-arizona-voting-centre--c-1524696

When there's a fuck off mass shooting in a counting station Trump will be directly responsible.

If he gets Pennsylvania, it's all over.

Yep which is why I threw a few bucks Trump's way.  I mean I hope the farking clown still loses but if he does get up at least I can buy a slab.

These comebacks in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Georgia will be ones for the history books, even if they don't all come off. Very exciting to see it close so late, especially in Pennsylvania. I think they've finished counting there for the night though. Georgia to count through the night so Biden could overtake in the next few hours.

Nevada to announce their count very early in the morning our time tomorrow, if it's gone Biden's way since we last saw that very slim 8k gap when they were 86% counted it'll be practically all over for Trump, but one thing I've noticed the CNN guys haven't seemed to have picked up on is that the postal votes might not break the same way in Nevada as they have this year as elsewhere. In Pennsylvania apparently the people that ordered postal votes were 70% democrat, but in Nevada they sent votes out to all voters.