Yep, crazy to think that only 100 years ago, ground forces were what war was about... These days, a serious war would wipe out a significant number of people in a very short period of time, without ground force combat.

I absolutely detests they way ben Roberts smith is always wheeled out for stuff. Great good on him. You know what... he did his job. Not trying to be inconsiderate but i turn off whenever i see our hear him.

Cheers for the name calling and the in-depth analysis.

(I fixed up your woeful spelling and grammar too.)

Just a quick question though: Did you believe in the story of Simpson's donkey until tonight? (It's funny what the "average Australian" will believe isn't it?)

you obviously flunked out in history. some of them signed up because they wanted to see the world. they had no idea they were going to run into machine gun barrage. you dont have a clue champ

The fact you feel cheated wasn't the intention. If that's what's happened I apologise for that but I still think it's important, for future generations, that we get this stuff right or we will make the same mistakes over and over again.

I'm glad we live in an age where if my boys were called up I could say "hang on a minute" rather than ship them out at the first opportunity under false pretences.

its called propaganda.
Ben Roberts is a poster like Uncle Sam saying we want you.

i think its much to with encouraging national service as well as remembering thr ANZACs

Munrubenmuz. Youre a douche.

Fucking bullshit. The way you talk makes it out as if the average aussie is stupid and believes everything they hear.
War is a fucking brutally disgusting abhorrent thing. Aussies deserted, Whimpered, cried for their mothers and they also fought as hard as they could as well. God knows what any of us would do.
As for the stories... guess what, history if endless with stories that have been exaggerated, manipulated and even completely made up. The average person can investigate the stories and will find the truth. Everyone knows there is no super aussie soldier they were everyday guys doing something they obviously believed in.

The story of the Anzacs is important to alot of people for many different reasons. It is our day to remember the sacrifices of people in our families (i have no relative that fought in any war for australia).

Im by no means patriotic. Nothing worse than a flag waving Bogan but its a sacred day for everyone.

I for one am grateful that this thread exists. Had always taken that crap for gospel, and now I have to say that I feel very cheated.
I lost family in WW1 and both my grandfathers fought in WW2, but hearing stuff like that makes me so ashamed of my country. Doesn't affect how I view their sacrifice, but it's a bit of an eye opener.

Bah to that.

It's the perfect time.

Next week it'll be something Tony Abbot ate or drank. These are great discussions.

If anyone here has thought deeply about something written here tonight then it's been a good result.

fighting for the poms in gallopoli. surely you know that

theres a time and place for this sort of discussion, and the week before and after ANZAC Day isn't it

Its a topic worth discussing, just not right now

I'm not denigrating them nor taking any joy.

People should know the truth and if they knew the truth maybe they turn their attention to some of the great stories about Australia rather than made up ones.

Babies eyes are large relative to their heads so that they look cuter and therefore it makes it easier to care about them rather than let them get eaten by meandering wildlife.

Evolution BITCHES!

I'm not sure the historian speaks for the Army and all Australian soldiers. I'm not sure he even takes your position of denigrating the sacrifices the Anzacs made and takes joy in shitting on their memory. There's probably lots of bullshit surrounding Anzac Day but I'm not sure that war historian spends his Anzac Day burning Australian flags.

Cheer up mate. Take a walk along the beach or something. Buy a dog perhaps. Or are dogs biological vessels programmed by nature to manipulate their caretakers into giving them food?

Pop some Mentos. You'll feel better.

Obviously you know more than any general in the Australian Army does because they see it as important to tell Australian soldiers that most, if not all, of the Anzac story is just that, a story. (Refer the iview video posted.) Even warning that believing that rubbish (his words) may get you killed.

Far smarter blokes than you think it's important. I'll probably go along with what they reckon ol' Russ instead of you. No offence..

No soldier says that. All the majority or them ever talk about is how they don't want to let their mates down. The flag or the country never gets a look in.

And I'll blow your puny mind here but the Australians never fought under the Australian Flag in WW1.

That's at all.

EVER.

http://www.ausflag.com.au/fighting_for_the_flag.asp

I'm not getting my jollies.

The truth may be uncomfortable but it is the truth.

"Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

Swallow it hook, line and sinker if you want and it makes you go to bed feeling all warm and cuddly.

And BTW there is a day for remembering and commemorating Australian soldiers. It's called Remembrance Day.

I'm not arguing that, I'm arguing that the Australian soldiers were fighting for Australia. Not Australia fighting for other countries.

Ben Roberts our latest VC said it on prime time telly tonight.

You may not believe it but plenty do.

Charles Bean, official historian for WW1 wrote plenty of florid praise about the "mighty" Australian soldier.

Surely you're talking shit?

I'm the least patriotic person around (I actually hate Australia's self obsessed culture), but read that all of that is 'fabricated' is a bit of a kick to teeth to be honest. No-one believes the super soldier shit... That's like football coaches talking about the Aussie 'spirit and fighting attitude', get fucked :lol:

I get it mate. You get your jollies taking a dump on Australian traditions. Good for you. Even if the Anzac legend is mired in mythology it doesn't change the fact Australians fought and died in the Great War and their sacrifices should be remembered and honoured. You're getting caught up in the web of murky details you're missing the big picture which is to remember all Australians who fought and died in the world wars. Maybe suspend your brooding cynicism until the 27th or something, and then you can enlighten us with your superior historical knowledge, but by then no one will give a shit.

Because you are obviously incapable of rational thought I'll spell it out for you.

Due to a set of convoluted treaties originating some 40 years previous, empirical shitfights between increasingly irrelevant monarchs and an unfortunate incident in Sarejevo Australia invaded Turkey.

So explain to me again which country Australia was fighting for?

Go on....say "OUR FREEDOMS" !

:roll:

For who's country exactly?

Watch and learn.

http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/lest-we-forget-what/DO1321H001S00

Skip through to the 10th minute and watch a historian tear your logic to pieces.

Fucking crap. You disrespect Australia by accepting lies told in their name.

Australian historians (including the Australian War Memorial) agree that the Australia soldier is no better or no worse than any other soldier and yet tonight at the end of that show "Australia: The Story of Us" there is Ben Roberts saying (and I'm paraphrasing) that "when it comes to a fight there's no one that fights harder or with more passion than Australians".

More perpetuating of the mythology of the Australian super soldier.

The question you have to ask is why?

The answer is that no one wants to think that good/bad/indifferent men died for no good reason.

Your logic is that myths are more important than the truth.



No one said that.

But there's a reason they give out medals.

So many cynical motherfuckers. 60,000 Aussies shed blood for the country and the only appreciation they can muster is to pick on some legends and have a crack at their fellow Aussies for supporting the day. Even if all the stories were true the iconoclasts would find some angle in which to attack the Anzac tradition, probably because their coward families have no military heritage.

I find negative articles about veterans painfully pathetic. It's all well and good to disrespect others when you weren't the poor soul being shot at.

So the stories of the WWI recipients of the Victoria Cross are all BS? Get a grip.

You can respect the fact that soldiers fought on behalf of Australia regardless of motives.

I find the myth making quite sad actually.

Take the Simpson and his donkey article. Here is an average man who has been killed while on duty and someone somewhere has though to themselves "You know what, your death wasn't good enough. Giving up your life serving your country during war doesn't cut it so i'm going to make up some facts to make your story seem cooler".

Having your mate tell lies, though still dodgy, i can understand, but to have an author or official somewhere blindly accept this because it's a cool story saddens me.