except that ive seen jedinak dominate premier league midfields. not something to be taken lightly.

have you ever seen ange play a 3 at the back?  it would likely be a disaster for him to pull it out in a competitive match in a world cup qual campaign.  

dam no Jedi it looks like. so now him and Rogic out.

Does that mean Mooy has to carry both Hudders and the socceroos on his back? the bloke will be cooked by seasons end.

Milligan will definitely be considered now. Irvine now has the chance. It's time to pick and hungry squad.

totally not worried.  our midfield is stacked. 

As a screening midfielder in a very defensive set-up and with very few offensive duties. He just uses his muscle to shut down opponents quick smart. He also has a lot of cover at the back so he can't be caught in no-man's land (which is what is bound to happen when he plays as sole defensive midfielder in 433 with an offensive midfield triangle and aggressive wingbacks). And he always has somebody nearby with far better technical and play-making skills to whom he can lay off the ball.

You're not taking the nuances into account. When you've seen him dominate Premier League midfields it has been purely in defensive football (as I say, he's a niche footballer who suits defensive-minded managers). He's not suited to Angeball. He doesn't get the luxuries he gets in defensive Premier League sides.

You're also opposed to formations which strike a better balance between attack and defence (such as 3-5-2 or 3-4-3).

You can't have your cake and eat it. Either you deploy Jedinak in a system to which he's better suited or you use a more well-rounded option (and you find better options across the park capable of playing Angeball). The trouble is that almost none of the Aussie players are suited to Angeball. Ange is trying to bite off more than he can chew.


Nope. And for that Ange has screwed up big time. He has had ages to try it out. But he has been wholly idealistic and failed to take into account our relative strengths/weaknesses, those of our opponents (in Asia and potentially in Russia) and the fact that three at the back is not tantamount to building a bus depot. Proactive sides such as Germany will employ three at the back occasionally. Ange appears to be labouring under the same misapprehension under which many on the forum labour. They think in false dichotomies. Either it's wholly proactive or wholly reactive football. The reality is that most football sides cannot and should not play either. They should play broadly proactive football (but not wholly proactive football) and just do what they need to do shore themselves up defensively. Managers such as Pep Guardiola and Joachim Low can do this (when necessary). They can compromise. That Ange cannot be flexible is probably going to cost the NT dearly.


It would not likely be a disaster for him to try out three at the back? Have you any evidence to support the statement? The evidence suggests the opposite. We have central defenders who are sensible enough but not fast. Having three of them means they need to cover less ground so it addresses their strengths and weaknesses very well. We also have a few wingbacks who are lightning quick and love to go forward but are defensively a bit shoddy. Having three at the back gives them cover and lets Ange employ the overlapping wingbacks to his hearts content. Then they can isolate defenders more easily and still have cover behind them should they lose the ball. It also allows Jedinak to engage in duels in front of defence without needing to worry about being too far back.

How is that a disaster? That's called addressing our weaknesses. Almost impossible we'd do any worse than we're doing now.

Irvine, Jeggo and now O'Neill is playing all the time. A shame Dougall has had less time of late. Troisi will return to take Rogic's spot. 

What position is Troisi best at anyway? I think against Iraq we need to go with our fittest team to break them down. We saw in Perth that their concentration lacked when they got tired.

Who were our 2 central defenders against Germany? De Vere and Wilkinson. I know,  just a friendly, but both were sharp and fit. They should make the squad but I'd expect Sainsbury and Wright to start.

Behich just needs to watch how high he stands. It gave me a heart attack against Kyrgyzstan. He should be left back because he's really fit and in form. Right back? I don't think Jones or O'Neill would enter panic stations. Both face much more formidable opponents every week.

sound like you actually dont watch many of his games. although he is a midfield defender; he also gets forward. he screens. he holds the ball up. and he initiates attack.  he stabilises midfield.  all essential duties in a 3 man midfield.  


also glory perth this seems about the most deluded thing ive read on here for a while

He doesn't get the luxuries he gets in defensive Premier League sides.

are you honestly saying that he gets an easier ride in the EPL than playing for australia against asian teams?  

i think mooy need to be our central attacking mid.   id like to see troisi played more advanced.  on the left wing if we are in a 433. as one of the front 2 if we were in a 442.

Get Mabil and Amini into the squad, i like to see Amini for Rogic who gives that creativity and Mabil who who give us a fresh new option instead of the tried and tested ones in Kruse, Leckie and Burns.

inala brah

Sorry mate but you completely miss the point.

For those matches in the English Premier League where Jedinak has gone forward, engaged in duels and shut down opponents fast, he has been able to do so because there is enough defensive cover behind him.

That's what he does best.

But you seem to think he can just do exactly the same for Aus. He cannot do the same if he plays at CDM in 433 (with overlapping fullbacks and offensive midfield triangle, aka Angeball). That formation requires him to drop back and sit just ahead of the two central defenders. He is not suited to doing this. With Angeball, he cannot go forward to close down without risking leaving our slow central defenders hopelessly exposed. I.e. No man'a land. This happened against England. He saw the chance to win the ball back fast, lost the duel, caught out of position and it cost us a goal.

Do you not see the difference between how Jedinak functions in the respective systems?

As for the notion of Jedinak getting an easier ride in the EPL compared to Asia. Don't be absurd. He just plays in a system which totally suits his strengths and weakness (albeit against superior opposition) compared to a system to which he is poorly-suited (albeit against not the greatest opposition).

Fairly straightforward

Postecoglou wants Kruse on the park

Australia coach Ange Postecoglou has tabled concerns ahead of the Chinese Super League season, fearful that new regulations will prevent key Socceroos from getting the game time they need.

While seeing plenty of positives in the January transfer window, Postecoglou is wary of the minutes his key attackers will see in a crunch year for the national team.

Two key World Cup qualifiers loom in March, with Australia's path to Russia to be determined either side of June's Confederations Cup.

At the moment, the Socceroos forward line gives him cause for concern.

While Mat Leckie and Jamie Maclaren are going strong, first-choice striker Tomi Juric is yet to cement his first-team position at Swiss club Luzern.

Tim Cahill is firing but a week-to-week fitness proposition at Melbourne City.

And Robbie Kruse and Aposotolos Giannou must now navigate a new rule in China which disadvantages international players.

Chinese Super League clubs are allowed to have five foreigners on their books but field only three at any one time.

For recently-arrived Kruse, the tweak couldn't have come at a worse time.

The 28-year-old started just one game for previous club Leverkusen this season before moving to Liaoning Whowin.

Postecoglou said he hoped Kruse would be given enough game-time to flourish.

"You hope he has got a move where he plays regularly. There are new rules for him (and) Giannou, just to play. There are no guarantees any more," he said.

"That's a bit of a concern, as is (defender Mathew Spiranovic) dropping to the second division with the level of competition."

Kruse, the livewire winger, was a key part of Australia's Asian Cup triumph in 2015 and is a firm Postecoglou favourite.

"He is still in the prime of his career. Robbie, at his best, is more than capable of playing at the highest level. He just hasn't had the opportunity because of injuries and game time," he said.

"This next 12 months are big for him.

"He will either become a key player and take on that experienced role now, or get bypassed by others. That's his challenge.

"I believe he can be a key player in our team, and he needs to be now."

With creative midfielder Tom Rogic ruled out for the qualifiers against Iraq and United Arab Emirates, Postecoglou said James Troisi was a possible replacement.

He said he was happy with goalkeeper Mat Ryan's move to Belgium and defender Bailey Wright's switch to Preston, where he "takes on more responsibility at a big club".

He was also pleased by two moves from midfielders that didn't happen.

"Other positives were things like Jackson (Irvine) and Massimo (Luongo) resisted offers to go to China at this point of their careers," he said.

"Both probably had really attractive offers but choosing a certain path for their career at the moment. From our perspective that's a good thing because they are playing regularly where they are."

©AAP2017

http://wwos.nine.com.au/2017/02/18/14/48/postecoglou-wants-kruse-on-the-park

C'est la vie

glory perth, the problem for ange is he cant recruit to fit his system. he has to use the tools he has. and some of them are playing very well at a decent level. some of them are not. the later should not be in the nt squad.

jedinak is not at fault for the frailties at the back of the nt, if anything he pushes on to hard to lift an underperforming team and looks for low percentage passes in that spirit.  there is zero reason that our highest performing roo of the last 4 years could work in the nt. the problem is not his, it's anges,

Bailey Wright's switch to Preston, - he went to bristol


Other positives were things like Jackson (Irvine) and Massimo (Luongo) resisted offers to go to China at this point of their career. just hope this attitude manifests into squad selection

You're not remembering things right, or you're just on an agenda bent.
During the game against England, Luongo chose to close down the full back, leaving huge space for the winger that received the ball, it forced Jedinak to charge in and try to stop him, it failed because the team got out of shape, not so much Jedi's deficiencies, but poor pressing by the more advanced players.
Why do you want Jedi getting forward for?

Pretty encouraging comments from Ange in that article tbh. Looks like he's starting to put pressure on the China boys.

you should put some pressure on at work to get sainsbury in fut and maclaren gold i.f. .....just sayin.     paaallleeeasssse.  do it for your country.

No, I remember correctly. Jedinak still went forward. As far as I'm concerned, that's not a problem. He won't win them all, but he'll win enough for it to be worth our while. But he only has licence to do that if he has enough defensive cover. Angeball (at least in the uncompromising way Ange has them playing for the most part) doesn't allow for that.

Why do I want Jedi getting forward? Not too far forward. But, if he's playing, I would sooner see him in a role similar to that which he plays in club football. One where he's not too far forward but not obliged to drop right back. If he's a bit further forward he can contest in tighter space. He needs this because he's not too fast. But in closed spaces, he's very handy. Ask Tony Pulis.

He needs to know he can go forward and there's adequate defensive cover behind him if he doesn't win the ball. At the minute, if he goes forward and contests, everything goes tits up.

Snide little ad hominem, there mate. gloryperth, with whom I have no problem, has different opinions to me, is not opinionated (unlike me) and phrases things completely different to me (or so anybody who understands these things can tell). But if you prefer to play the man rather than the ball, be my guest.

Moving on... The problem for Ange is that he's idealistic as fuck and won't compromise in ways that managers with far better footballers can compromise.

Ange can't recruit to suit his system. What he can do is he can tweak his system. He can be mindful of the tools he has and adapt. Guus Hiddink did this. All competent managers do this. And it's not selling yourself out, either. You can still play broadly proactive football while having a strong defensive set-up (e.g. 3-5-2 or 3-4-3). Managers such as Joachim Low and Pep Guardiola realise this and they've done that with various sides they've had.

But Ange either isn't clever enough to understand there are shades of grey or (and this is more likely because I think Ange is immensely intelligent) he's just massively idealistic and is now drunk on his own rhetoric.

And quit getting so defensive about Jedinak. I think he's very handy for the NT. I can, however, understand his relative strengths and weaknesses. For some reason, Ange is trying to fit a whole heap of square pegs into round holes.

Promising statement from Ange. Kruse, Giannou, Spiranovic and Juric will probably have 1 start and 3 bench appearances max before Iraq. None should make the squad. Taggart, Maclaren, Wilkinson and Troisi should definitely come in instead. 

What's with Burns? I've always found him dangerous and valuable. Is the J-League back on?

Project Giannou wentdownhill pretty quickly but I hope he'll improve again one day.

Santalab? As impact bench player.
A second Timmy

Scores goals.

Brosque would make more sense for that role.

I'm not so sure. Look at the last 3 seasons


4792 minutes - 23 goals

1 goal every 208 mins


1793 minutes - 22 goals

1 goal every 81 minutes


People over rate strikers often but Santalab is certainly underrated. I think people can judge him by their emotions and not his performances.

Fair point.

It's unlikely Ange would pick either though considering their age.

But it is however odd.

We have Timmy and he does score

Even Ange has said-
.

Postecoglou isn’t concerned about the strength of Australia’s attack and says if the 37-year old keeps putting the ball in the back of the net he can play for the national team until he’s a Quinquagenarian.

“I’m excited to have them both in the squad but I don’t care if Timmy keeps scoring goals, he can play till he’s 50,” he said. “I don’t think we need to worry who’s going to replace him if he keeps scoring goals. He’s a very important part of what we do and we know that even though he’s not capable of playing 90mins he can certainly make an impact for us in these two games.

“At the end of the day when I look at the attacking options we’ve go in the camp I’m pretty excited by it and we haven’t really struggled to score goals since I’ve been in charge so I don’t think it’s an issue.”

http://www.fourfourtwo.com.au/news/cahill-can-play-for-socceroos-til-hes-50-434039

It really sends mixed messages to me. Players younger than Tim are too old. Tim has actually walked the walk but shouldn't this keep Anges mind open to other older players?

Johnszasz

J-League starts next weekend. Neymar Burns has an assist and brace from last two preseason games. I don't expect the manager to play him much however when the action starts. There were reports of him missing a transfer to Sanfrecce during the window so I think he'll just continue ticking over until June.

dont even try to pretend that you are not glory perth.  it's the most obvious multi on the forum.  neither of you can say the most basic thing in less than 500 words. 

and im not being defensive about jedinak.  it's you that is laying out a thesis on your dislike of his NT presence. an ill informed masterpiece of jibber jabber.  

to me the single biggest issue suffocating the NT right now is that lack of intensity and awareness that they play with.  i agree with you that ange right now is not getting his squad mix right.  i am very concerned that he has picked his team and is playing them regardless of their game time and form.  this means rusty performances with stupid decisions and poor execution.  i would call out smith, ryan and kruse as the three most prominent examples of this holgerism.

also our defensive frailties come not from jedinak but from fielding a very soft backline that is not playing in competitive leagues or at all.

when you play a team like;

-----------------------------------------------------------------------ryan
milligan----------------------------------sainsbury-------------------------------spiranovic------------------------------------smith

all very talented players full of enormous potential and the capacity (imo) to play at the highest level. given the right run i am sure they could all play in any of the big 5 leagues. unfortunately they have made poor league choices (milligan, spiro, sainsbury) or are riding the bench (smith, ryan).

how can this backline that is playing into retirement (milligan) or against 4th tier opposition (sainsbury, spiranovic) or not at all (ryan, smith) hold up against the obvious intensity of international football.  they are playing for a spot in the world cup. possibly the most prised events in a footballers career. yet they come from not playing or playing in soft league and are expected to be sharp enough to hold it together in an unfamiliar system with unfamiliar team mates.

my point is that you are wasting your time looking at jedinak.  he is not the real cancer in the squad.  

IB, QF is definitely not Glory Perth! 

Very different writing styles.

If one goes into the the multi speculation thread, some people who lack much cerebral matter, think you are Stefcep, and I am about 20 other posters!

I think this is very well articulated, QF.

Good to see you back on the forum.

The only thing we don't know, is Jedi's perceived leadership qualities that are highly rated by Ange. He may lift players to perform better around him.

Thanks. I don't get so many opportunities to surf the web at the minute. No doubt, I will shortly.

Good point about Jedinak's leadership qualities. For that reason (among others), I completely agree with him being in the squad. But I don't think it means be must start every match. I think Ange needs to look to finding somebody who can fulfill the role Jedinak has had. More importantly, imo, Ange needs to find a way of playing a broadly proactive style of football which gets the most out of all his footballers (Jedinak included).