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adrtho
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TheSelectFew wrote:sauceQuote:Promotion and relegation in Australia: It’s been done before
By John Duerden | 1 day ago
Have your say 199 Comments
David Gallop
The debate over promotion and relegation in Australia reminds me of South Korea in 2011, the year before it was introduced. The ‘Let’s wait/It’ll be great/It won’t work here mate’ to-and-fro.
Football folk tend to be conservative, viewing change with suspicion but then adapting to it very quickly once it happens. Introducing three points for a win in England in 1981 had its opposition (and still does) but within weeks, it had been largely accepted and was then slowly adopted by everyone else.
In Korea what happened when and since relegation came into play was what often happens when there is a big change after polarising debate: it is not the promised land that its supporters claimed it would be, but neither is it the dystopia narrated by naysayers.
My status as the 21st most influential person in Korea football in 2009 (as voted by 442 magazine) meant that it was only right and proper that I attended a few discussions in Seoul. Around the same time my team Blackburn Rovers, helpfully, started to flirt with the drop from the English Premier League.
The arguments for and against would mostly be familiar ones to Aussie fans, though every country is different of course.
Korea is certainly unique in its football culture. There had been a quick experiment in 2006 to have promotion but the winner of the all second-tier playoff (defeating a deeply Christian team called Ansan Hallelujah that, instead of a pre-match huddle, lined up in the shape of cross before kick off and prayed. Journalists dreaded interviews with the players as they usually ended with enthusiastic invitations to attend church the following Sunday) then refused to take their place in the top tier.
The introduction of genuine promotion and relegation in 2012 happened for three main reasons.
The first was that there was growing pressure from the AFC. The confederation had long complained that one of the continent’s strongest leagues, and the dominant power (more so at the time than now) in the Asian Champions League, did not have promotion and relegation. This is going to happen more and more in regard to Australia. The AFC is going to push.
Second and more pressing was the match-fixing scandal of 2011. It was a major outbreak and shocked authorities and everyone else. It resulted in a massive drive to make the game more professional and that had to extend as far down the pyramid as possible.
And there was already a second tier. It was a question of trying to make this as competitive as possible.
So the initiative came from the K-League working with the support of the KFA, not the clubs themselves as may have to happen in Australia.
The main argument against relegation was that if a club went down, the owners would pull the plug.
The change in thinking at the top was that this may not actually happen and in most cases it probably would not. The second division is not the end, especially as it grows and improves.
The right-thinking owners would see it as a challenge to get back to the top tier as soon as possible, and if they didn’t and really wanted to bail then so be it: for the league a bit of short-term pain would, hopefully, be worth it for long-term gain.
It took relegation a while to get going (the K-League’s split system, where the 12 teams split into two groups near the end, does not help. This takes attention away from the bottom half).
There has been mostly yo-yoing between the top two flights and it was not until last season that the second tier started to show some life. A new team in Seoul E-Land spent a bit of cash, got former Vancouver Whitecaps coach Martin Rennie and plenty of talented and experienced Koreans.
There was a real promotion battle with improving and ambitious teams willing to spend to get into the top tier. This group of three or four teams is starting to lift standards.
The relegated teams have been reasonably enthusiastic, Gyeongnam – a team that was struggling before the drop – perhaps excepted, but the real test will come this season.
Busan I’Park is a former Korean and Asian champion but has been badly run and poorly financed for years. Even so, it was still a shock to see a former powerhouse take a tumble in 2015.
I spent some time with the club during pre-season in Thailand, and there was a determination to get back into the top tier. Some said relegation was the wake-up call needed. Time will tell.
Korea’s relegation experiment has been a modest success despite the fact that it was thrown together quickly. The second tier is slowly improving and there is a hope that this season Suwon FC, the first team to be promoted that had not come down from the first division, can shine.
Nobody is expecting a Leicester-like scenario but you never know. With promotion and relegation, such dreams are possible. K-League Average attendance 2009>>>11,226 2010>>>10,941 2011>>>11,634 Relegation 2012>>>7,045 2013>>>7,652 2014>>>7,932 2015>>>7,720 anyone know why there was 35% drop in Average attendance after relegation came in maybe we all join hands and jump together Edited by adrtho: 18/3/2016 04:59:58 PM
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Davide82
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TheSelectFew wrote:I find it ironic that someone from the Ukraine thinks he speaks on behalf of local Australian clubs and fans. Who the fuck are you. :lol: surely people don't actually believe this,,,it not true How to be adthro : half the time you want to write "it's" just write "it" leave off occasional end of past tenses such as look(ed) leave out occasional "the" or "an" Don't use capital letters at the start of a sentence Occasional obvious errors like "then" and "than" Yet have a complete grasp of complex grammatical structures when on a rant and full knowledge of idioms and colloquialisms and Australian social and political history as well as football I have to admit, if wasn't for times he forget to make this errors I would have been fool too I would almost hazard a guess he has a partner for whom English is not their first language and is quite well versed in the mistakes such a person would make Edited by davide82: 18/3/2016 05:00:17 PM
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bluebird
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Quote:In Korea what happened when and since relegation came into play was what often happens when there is a big change after polarising debate: it is not the promised land that its supporters claimed it would be, but neither is it the dystopia narrated by naysayers. Aint that the truth
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TheSelectFew
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I find it ironic that someone from the Ukraine thinks he speaks on behalf of local Australian clubs and fans. Who the fuck are you.
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bluebird
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adrtho wrote:you are just making number up aren't you? i just look at SANFL clubs (Aussie rules in SA) and you can become main shirt sponsorship for $25k
stop making numbers up And those teams have the same population as the regions above? Besides, the SANFL is largely irrelevant. When was the last time an AFL team played an SANFL team? The AFL had a national cup and it was a failure NQF were willing to pay $1m for a youth league team. Compare that with the $25k councils are willing to invest into SANFL clubs and it shows the large gap between the two codes between top tier investment and the next tier down The AFL is a stand alone elitist league that controls 100% of the teams, players, fans and interest Football is a global game where over 600 teams in this country alone have relevance and aspirations. There are plenty of games between the teams in the preseason Different games and different mindsets. That's (another reason) why the current A League approach fails
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TheSelectFew
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sauceQuote:Promotion and relegation in Australia: It’s been done before
By John Duerden | 1 day ago
Have your say 199 Comments
David Gallop
The debate over promotion and relegation in Australia reminds me of South Korea in 2011, the year before it was introduced. The ‘Let’s wait/It’ll be great/It won’t work here mate’ to-and-fro.
Football folk tend to be conservative, viewing change with suspicion but then adapting to it very quickly once it happens. Introducing three points for a win in England in 1981 had its opposition (and still does) but within weeks, it had been largely accepted and was then slowly adopted by everyone else.
In Korea what happened when and since relegation came into play was what often happens when there is a big change after polarising debate: it is not the promised land that its supporters claimed it would be, but neither is it the dystopia narrated by naysayers.
My status as the 21st most influential person in Korea football in 2009 (as voted by 442 magazine) meant that it was only right and proper that I attended a few discussions in Seoul. Around the same time my team Blackburn Rovers, helpfully, started to flirt with the drop from the English Premier League.
The arguments for and against would mostly be familiar ones to Aussie fans, though every country is different of course.
Korea is certainly unique in its football culture. There had been a quick experiment in 2006 to have promotion but the winner of the all second-tier playoff (defeating a deeply Christian team called Ansan Hallelujah that, instead of a pre-match huddle, lined up in the shape of cross before kick off and prayed. Journalists dreaded interviews with the players as they usually ended with enthusiastic invitations to attend church the following Sunday) then refused to take their place in the top tier.
The introduction of genuine promotion and relegation in 2012 happened for three main reasons.
The first was that there was growing pressure from the AFC. The confederation had long complained that one of the continent’s strongest leagues, and the dominant power (more so at the time than now) in the Asian Champions League, did not have promotion and relegation. This is going to happen more and more in regard to Australia. The AFC is going to push.
Second and more pressing was the match-fixing scandal of 2011. It was a major outbreak and shocked authorities and everyone else. It resulted in a massive drive to make the game more professional and that had to extend as far down the pyramid as possible.
And there was already a second tier. It was a question of trying to make this as competitive as possible.
So the initiative came from the K-League working with the support of the KFA, not the clubs themselves as may have to happen in Australia.
The main argument against relegation was that if a club went down, the owners would pull the plug.
The change in thinking at the top was that this may not actually happen and in most cases it probably would not. The second division is not the end, especially as it grows and improves.
The right-thinking owners would see it as a challenge to get back to the top tier as soon as possible, and if they didn’t and really wanted to bail then so be it: for the league a bit of short-term pain would, hopefully, be worth it for long-term gain.
It took relegation a while to get going (the K-League’s split system, where the 12 teams split into two groups near the end, does not help. This takes attention away from the bottom half).
There has been mostly yo-yoing between the top two flights and it was not until last season that the second tier started to show some life. A new team in Seoul E-Land spent a bit of cash, got former Vancouver Whitecaps coach Martin Rennie and plenty of talented and experienced Koreans.
There was a real promotion battle with improving and ambitious teams willing to spend to get into the top tier. This group of three or four teams is starting to lift standards.
The relegated teams have been reasonably enthusiastic, Gyeongnam – a team that was struggling before the drop – perhaps excepted, but the real test will come this season.
Busan I’Park is a former Korean and Asian champion but has been badly run and poorly financed for years. Even so, it was still a shock to see a former powerhouse take a tumble in 2015.
I spent some time with the club during pre-season in Thailand, and there was a determination to get back into the top tier. Some said relegation was the wake-up call needed. Time will tell.
Korea’s relegation experiment has been a modest success despite the fact that it was thrown together quickly. The second tier is slowly improving and there is a hope that this season Suwon FC, the first team to be promoted that had not come down from the first division, can shine.
Nobody is expecting a Leicester-like scenario but you never know. With promotion and relegation, such dreams are possible.
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TheSelectFew
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adrtho wrote:bluebird wrote:adrtho wrote:why do you think Australian 2nd div teams will get more money from sponsorship then Dutch 2nd div teams? Because that's how much clubs like Canberra, NQF, Tasmania, Wollongong, Geelong and other teams in the waiting have proven is sitting and waiting for them (and more than $500k) People might be quick to point out the disadvantages of our land mass but the real advantage is it creates distinct geographical regions and better sponsorship opportunities $500k is small change for giving these regions their own team that can attract a consolidated playing pool of Australia's next best talent, secondary media coverage in news and print, and the chance for an A League contract even if it is only every other year. I think you'll find it would come straight from their local councils you are just making number up aren't you? i just look at SANFL clubs (Aussie rules in SA) and you can become main shirt sponsorship for $25k stop making numbers up Pot meet kettle.
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adrtho
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Draupnir wrote:adrtho wrote:bluebird wrote:adrtho wrote:why do you think Australian 2nd div teams will get more money from sponsorship then Dutch 2nd div teams? Because that's how much clubs like Canberra, NQF, Tasmania, Wollongong, Geelong and other teams in the waiting have proven is sitting and waiting for them (and more than $500k) People might be quick to point out the disadvantages of our land mass but the real advantage is it creates distinct geographical regions and better sponsorship opportunities $500k is small change for giving these regions their own team that can attract a consolidated playing pool of Australia's next best talent, secondary media coverage in news and print, and the chance for an A League contract even if it is only every other year. I think you'll find it would come straight from their local councils you are just making number up aren't you? i just look at SANFL clubs (Aussie rules in SA) and you can become main shirt sponsorship for $25k stop making numbers up Please provide sources for each SANFL club mate, otherwise you're painting an entire state's worth of clubs with the same brush. you can piss off
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Slobodan Drauposevic
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adrtho wrote:bluebird wrote:adrtho wrote:why do you think Australian 2nd div teams will get more money from sponsorship then Dutch 2nd div teams? Because that's how much clubs like Canberra, NQF, Tasmania, Wollongong, Geelong and other teams in the waiting have proven is sitting and waiting for them (and more than $500k) People might be quick to point out the disadvantages of our land mass but the real advantage is it creates distinct geographical regions and better sponsorship opportunities $500k is small change for giving these regions their own team that can attract a consolidated playing pool of Australia's next best talent, secondary media coverage in news and print, and the chance for an A League contract even if it is only every other year. I think you'll find it would come straight from their local councils you are just making number up aren't you? i just look at SANFL clubs (Aussie rules in SA) and you can become main shirt sponsorship for $25k stop making numbers up Please provide sources for each SANFL club mate, otherwise you're painting an entire state's worth of clubs with the same brush.
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adrtho
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bluebird wrote:adrtho wrote:why do you think Australian 2nd div teams will get more money from sponsorship then Dutch 2nd div teams? Because that's how much clubs like Canberra, NQF, Tasmania, Wollongong, Geelong and other teams in the waiting have proven is sitting and waiting for them (and more than $500k) People might be quick to point out the disadvantages of our land mass but the real advantage is it creates distinct geographical regions and better sponsorship opportunities $500k is small change for giving these regions their own team that can attract a consolidated playing pool of Australia's next best talent, secondary media coverage in news and print, and the chance for an A League contract even if it is only every other year. I think you'll find it would come straight from their local councils you are just making number up aren't you? i just look at SANFL clubs (Aussie rules in SA) and you can become main shirt sponsorship for $25k stop making numbers up
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bluebird
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RedshirtWilly wrote:Is that $500k sitting there awaiting for them if they're in the top flight or if they're in a second tier that might not be televised? NQF wanted to spend over $1m for a youth league team For the elitists everything might be about televised games, ratings and attendances but for local clubs its about investing in the community Football is not about financial ROI. Its not about every team making a profit. For these regions its about establishing a presence and climbing as high up the ladder as they can. If these teams were offered a 2nd division club with no chance of promotion they would still take it because it moves their footballing resources up a notch and puts them in a better spotlight The sad thing is that (in past) regions like Gosford and Newcastle have completely shunned their teams because they weren't in contention of winning a national title. Once you create an elitist league with an elitist mindset then you take for granted what these others teams would pay good money for You see their passion all the time in the FFA cup when a whole community gets behind the game in great numbers just to see their team play 90 minutes and lose to a bigger team P/R won't change the top and it wont kill the league. All it does is give different purpose to the marginal number of teams at the bottom, and for those at the top of the lower league. That is player development and putting a higher level of football into the community. The elitist metrics aren't a concern at that level
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adrtho
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bluebird wrote:adrtho wrote:why do you think Australian 2nd div teams will get more money from sponsorship then Dutch 2nd div teams? Because that's how much clubs like Canberra, NQF, Tasmania, Wollongong, Geelong and other teams in the waiting have proven is sitting and waiting for them (and more than $500k) People might be quick to point out the disadvantages of our land mass but the real advantage is it creates distinct geographical regions and better sponsorship opportunities $500k is small change for giving these regions their own team that can attract a consolidated playing pool of Australia's next best talent, secondary media coverage in news and print, and the chance for an A League contract even if it is only every other year. I think you'll find it would come straight from their local councils they have $500k sponsorship waiting to be in a Aus 2nd div? or would this sponsorship only be there if the team in A-league?... not really the same thing being the big A-League, to being in a 2nd Div
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RedshirtWilly
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bluebird wrote:adrtho wrote:why do you think Australian 2nd div teams will get more money from sponsorship then Dutch 2nd div teams? Because that's how much clubs like Canberra, NQF, Tasmania, Wollongong, Geelong and other teams in the waiting have proven is sitting and waiting for them (and more than $500k) People might be quick to point out the disadvantages of our land mass but the real advantage is it creates distinct geographical regions and better sponsorship opportunities $500k is small change for giving these regions their own team that can attract a consolidated playing pool of Australia's next best talent, secondary media coverage in news and print, and the chance for an A League contract even if it is only every other year. I think you'll find it would come straight from their local councils Is that $500k sitting there awaiting for them if they're in the top flight or if they're in a second tier that might not be televised?
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bluebird
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adrtho wrote:why do you think Australian 2nd div teams will get more money from sponsorship then Dutch 2nd div teams? Because that's how much clubs like Canberra, NQF, Tasmania, Wollongong, Geelong and other teams in the waiting have proven is sitting and waiting for them (and more than $500k) People might be quick to point out the disadvantages of our land mass but the real advantage is it creates distinct geographical regions and better sponsorship opportunities $500k is small change for giving these regions their own team that can attract a consolidated playing pool of Australia's next best talent, secondary media coverage in news and print, and the chance for an A League contract even if it is only every other year. I think you'll find it would come straight from their local councils
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TheSelectFew
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adrtho wrote:bluebird wrote:Arthur wrote:The only way it will work is if the FFA puts it out in the market place and has the necessary discussions to gauge interest and a range of issues including costs etc.
First step is the FFA saying okay let's have an open and honest discussion about firstly a national 2nd tier and secondly a P/R mechanism. Agreed The FFA should announce that this season they will be looking to put in place a national second division of 8-10 teams and clubs can apply for the following licenses: Canberra, Brisbane, Gold Coast, North Queensland, Tasmania, Geelong, Sydney, Wollongong, Melbourne, and Adelaide Cost is $1m capital (one off) and $500k sponsorship (recurring) Contribution from the FFA will be $700k TV dollars (recurring) Club will require access to stadium with lighting requirements and 3k seating If no team applies then that spells an end to the whole 2nd division discussion and P/R If the quota is met then the 2nd division is run in place of the youth league, and A League teams put their own youth league process in place (like playing them in the state leagues) Win/ win IMO Edited by bluebird: 18/3/2016 01:52:05 PM why do you think Australian 2nd div teams will get more money from sponsorship then Dutch 2nd div teams? Edited by adrtho: 18/3/2016 02:06:02 PM Population and participation basis are growing, room for potential growth etc. I think it is fucking stupid to compare the Netherlands and Australia though.
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adrtho
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bluebird wrote:Arthur wrote:The only way it will work is if the FFA puts it out in the market place and has the necessary discussions to gauge interest and a range of issues including costs etc.
First step is the FFA saying okay let's have an open and honest discussion about firstly a national 2nd tier and secondly a P/R mechanism. Agreed The FFA should announce that this season they will be looking to put in place a national second division of 8-10 teams and clubs can apply for the following licenses: Canberra, Brisbane, Gold Coast, North Queensland, Tasmania, Geelong, Sydney, Wollongong, Melbourne, and Adelaide Cost is $1m capital (one off) and $500k sponsorship (recurring) Contribution from the FFA will be $700k TV dollars (recurring) Club will require access to stadium with lighting requirements and 3k seating If no team applies then that spells an end to the whole 2nd division discussion and P/R If the quota is met then the 2nd division is run in place of the youth league, and A League teams put their own youth league process in place (like playing them in the state leagues) Win/ win IMO Edited by bluebird: 18/3/2016 01:52:05 PM why do you think Australian 2nd div teams will get more money from sponsorship then Dutch 2nd div teams? Edited by adrtho: 18/3/2016 02:06:02 PM
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bluebird
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Arthur wrote:The only way it will work is if the FFA puts it out in the market place and has the necessary discussions to gauge interest and a range of issues including costs etc.
First step is the FFA saying okay let's have an open and honest discussion about firstly a national 2nd tier and secondly a P/R mechanism. Agreed The FFA should announce that this season they will be looking to put in place a national second division of 8-10 teams and clubs can apply for the following licenses: Canberra, Brisbane, Gold Coast, North Queensland, Tasmania, Geelong, Sydney, Wollongong, Melbourne, and Adelaide Cost is $1m capital (one off) and $500k sponsorship (recurring) Contribution from the FFA will be $700k TV dollars (recurring) Club will require access to stadium with lighting requirements and 3k seating If no team applies then that spells an end to the whole 2nd division discussion and P/R If the quota is met then the 2nd division is run in place of the youth league, and A League teams put their own youth league process in place (like playing them in the state leagues) Win/ win IMO Edited by bluebird: 18/3/2016 01:52:05 PM
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Arthur
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Barca4Life wrote:scott21 wrote:Arthur wrote:Initially a National second tier should be Melbourne/Sydney based to cut costs.
Then apply either new entities wanting to test the market or existing Clubs who have the capacity to step up. FFA would never propose this. I think it is the superior model. The FFA would get too much criticism if they set it up. NSW and Vic need to come together and do it on their own. It would never work because many of the NSW clubs wouldnt want to do it. The only way it will work is if the FFA puts it out in the market place and has the necessary discussions to gauge interest and a range of issues including costs etc. First step is the FFA saying okay let's have an open and honest discussion about firstly a national 2nd tier and secondly a P/R mechanism.
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Barca4Life
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scott21 wrote:Arthur wrote:Initially a National second tier should be Melbourne/Sydney based to cut costs.
Then apply either new entities wanting to test the market or existing Clubs who have the capacity to step up. FFA would never propose this. I think it is the superior model. The FFA would get too much criticism if they set it up. NSW and Vic need to come together and do it on their own. It would never work because many of the NSW clubs wouldnt want to do it.
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SWandP
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scott21 wrote:Arthur wrote:Initially a National second tier should be Melbourne/Sydney based to cut costs.
Then apply either new entities wanting to test the market or existing Clubs who have the capacity to step up. FFA would never propose this. I think it is the superior model. The FFA would get too much criticism if they set it up. NSW and Vic need to come together and do it on their own. Doesn't need Victoria in there either.
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aussie scott21
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Arthur wrote:Initially a National second tier should be Melbourne/Sydney based to cut costs.
Then apply either new entities wanting to test the market or existing Clubs who have the capacity to step up. FFA would never propose this. I think it is the superior model. The FFA would get too much criticism if they set it up. NSW and Vic need to come together and do it on their own.
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Arthur
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Initially a National second tier should be Melbourne/Sydney based to cut costs.
Then apply either new entities wanting to test the market or existing Clubs who have the capacity to step up.
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aussie scott21
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crimsoncrusoe wrote:There isn't going to be relegation for a long time.I don't think anyone disputes that.
Setting up a second division above the NPL State leagues as a proving ground makes good sense.
If it can have teams from all over the nation then it might even attract sponsorship and FTA tv coverage.
At some stage if the teams grow and can get to a reasonable standard,then it might even be possible that promotion would be considered.
There could be 12 teams playing each other home and away.
Teams from
Sydney:2
Melb:2
Perth
Adelaide
Brisbane
Nth Qld
Wooloongong
Canberra
Tasmania
Gold Coast.
Second div could start in Jan so as to allow reserve HAL players to be loaned out.
For me it would be best to go down 2 routes when we talk tv. If it is a winter comp (set league) play all the 3pm on a Saturday, so you can show low budget crosses around the ground for all goals. Perhaps WA could play later when they have a home match. If a summer comp play all the games Friday nights at the same time. Same deal, cross for goals etc ala FFA Cup or other comps. Just dont have teams from the same cities playing the same night at home as A-League. Eg Any week BR play at home on a friday night have the Brisbane representative play away that week. With FTA probably moving from Fridays you could have FTA 2nd div (if you get the tv deal :)) Edited by scott21: 18/3/2016 01:04:15 AM
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crimsoncrusoe
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There isn't going to be relegation for a long time.I don't think anyone disputes that.
Setting up a second division above the NPL State leagues as a proving ground makes good sense.
If it can have teams from all over the nation then it might even attract sponsorship and FTA tv coverage.
At some stage if the teams grow and can get to a reasonable standard,then it might even be possible that promotion would be considered.
There could be 12 teams playing each other home and away.
Teams from
Sydney:2
Melb:2
Perth
Adelaide
Brisbane
Nth Qld
Wooloongong
Canberra
Tasmania
Gold Coast.
Second div could start in Jan so as to allow reserve HAL players to be loaned out.
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NicCarBel
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adrtho wrote:Arthur wrote:adrtho wrote:Arthur wrote:adrtho wrote:Arthur wrote:adrtho wrote:Arthur wrote:The adoption of NRL and AFL models for Football is a key problem.
We have attempted to copy these models so that the Australian sporting market can more easily recognize the competition type. This so our sport can compete for market share in the sporting landscapes.
We have forsaken Football Culture for Australian Sporting Culture.
Even to the extent that we have adopted a cricket/netball structural model to development structures in the NPL and Zones. The seperation of Elite football from Community football in a user pays system is not a football culture.
and whats wrong with that???...sport trying to make football the way Europe does it South American have spit season...they have 2 champions each year , is this football Culture? Japan gone from European way to South American way, but add extra final play-off for Champion , is this football Culture Scotland and Belgium add a champion rounds, where the top part of table teams play each other and bottom half of table play each other , is this Football Culture? It look, anything that different in Europe or South American is Football Culture, but if it from Australia it's not Football Culture developed the Golden Generation; before we had Mark Viduka leading the Australian team playing at Leeds United competing in the Champions League soon we will have Apostolos Giannou formerly from Asteras Tripolis now in the Chinese League leading our attack. The football culture has weakened. i thought the AIS developed the Golden Generation Then you'd be wrong my friend Ned Zelić Kevin Muscat Craig Moore Josip Skoko John Aloisi Mark Viduka Lucas Neill Brett Emerton Vince Grella Mile Sterjovski Mark Bresciano Luke Wilkshire Joshua Kennedy Josip Šimunić (Croatia) Anthony Šerić (Croatia) Ivan Ergić (Serbia) And all prodigious talents before they entered the AIS. Ideveloped by parents coaches and clubs with strong football culture AIS only small part of the journey and nothing of Australian culture....AIS was one of the single great things done for Australia sports, Australian football Was? It's still there, you know..
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adrtho
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Group: Forum Members
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Arthur wrote:adrtho wrote:Arthur wrote:adrtho wrote:Arthur wrote:adrtho wrote:Arthur wrote:The adoption of NRL and AFL models for Football is a key problem.
We have attempted to copy these models so that the Australian sporting market can more easily recognize the competition type. This so our sport can compete for market share in the sporting landscapes.
We have forsaken Football Culture for Australian Sporting Culture.
Even to the extent that we have adopted a cricket/netball structural model to development structures in the NPL and Zones. The seperation of Elite football from Community football in a user pays system is not a football culture.
and whats wrong with that???...sport trying to make football the way Europe does it South American have spit season...they have 2 champions each year , is this football Culture? Japan gone from European way to South American way, but add extra final play-off for Champion , is this football Culture Scotland and Belgium add a champion rounds, where the top part of table teams play each other and bottom half of table play each other , is this Football Culture? It look, anything that different in Europe or South American is Football Culture, but if it from Australia it's not Football Culture developed the Golden Generation; before we had Mark Viduka leading the Australian team playing at Leeds United competing in the Champions League soon we will have Apostolos Giannou formerly from Asteras Tripolis now in the Chinese League leading our attack. The football culture has weakened. i thought the AIS developed the Golden Generation Then you'd be wrong my friend Ned Zelić Kevin Muscat Craig Moore Josip Skoko John Aloisi Mark Viduka Lucas Neill Brett Emerton Vince Grella Mile Sterjovski Mark Bresciano Luke Wilkshire Joshua Kennedy Josip Šimunić (Croatia) Anthony Šerić (Croatia) Ivan Ergić (Serbia) And all prodigious talents before they entered the AIS. Ideveloped by parents coaches and clubs with strong football culture AIS only small part of the journey and nothing of Australian culture....AIS was one of the single great things done for Australia sports, Australian football
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Arthur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.1K,
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adrtho wrote:Arthur wrote:adrtho wrote:Arthur wrote:adrtho wrote:Arthur wrote:The adoption of NRL and AFL models for Football is a key problem.
We have attempted to copy these models so that the Australian sporting market can more easily recognize the competition type. This so our sport can compete for market share in the sporting landscapes.
We have forsaken Football Culture for Australian Sporting Culture.
Even to the extent that we have adopted a cricket/netball structural model to development structures in the NPL and Zones. The seperation of Elite football from Community football in a user pays system is not a football culture.
and whats wrong with that???...sport trying to make football the way Europe does it South American have spit season...they have 2 champions each year , is this football Culture? Japan gone from European way to South American way, but add extra final play-off for Champion , is this football Culture Scotland and Belgium add a champion rounds, where the top part of table teams play each other and bottom half of table play each other , is this Football Culture? It look, anything that different in Europe or South American is Football Culture, but if it from Australia it's not Football Culture developed the Golden Generation; before we had Mark Viduka leading the Australian team playing at Leeds United competing in the Champions League soon we will have Apostolos Giannou formerly from Asteras Tripolis now in the Chinese League leading our attack. The football culture has weakened. i thought the AIS developed the Golden Generation Then you'd be wrong my friend Ned Zelić Kevin Muscat Craig Moore Josip Skoko John Aloisi Mark Viduka Lucas Neill Brett Emerton Vince Grella Mile Sterjovski Mark Bresciano Luke Wilkshire Joshua Kennedy Josip Šimunić (Croatia) Anthony Šerić (Croatia) Ivan Ergić (Serbia) And all prodigious talents before they entered the AIS. Ideveloped by parents coaches and clubs with strong football culture AIS only small part of the journey
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adrtho
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.9K,
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Arthur wrote:adrtho wrote:Arthur wrote:adrtho wrote:Arthur wrote:The adoption of NRL and AFL models for Football is a key problem.
We have attempted to copy these models so that the Australian sporting market can more easily recognize the competition type. This so our sport can compete for market share in the sporting landscapes.
We have forsaken Football Culture for Australian Sporting Culture.
Even to the extent that we have adopted a cricket/netball structural model to development structures in the NPL and Zones. The seperation of Elite football from Community football in a user pays system is not a football culture.
and whats wrong with that???...sport trying to make football the way Europe does it South American have spit season...they have 2 champions each year , is this football Culture? Japan gone from European way to South American way, but add extra final play-off for Champion , is this football Culture Scotland and Belgium add a champion rounds, where the top part of table teams play each other and bottom half of table play each other , is this Football Culture? It look, anything that different in Europe or South American is Football Culture, but if it from Australia it's not Football Culture developed the Golden Generation; before we had Mark Viduka leading the Australian team playing at Leeds United competing in the Champions League soon we will have Apostolos Giannou formerly from Asteras Tripolis now in the Chinese League leading our attack. The football culture has weakened. i thought the AIS developed the Golden Generation Then you'd be wrong my friend Ned Zelić Kevin Muscat Craig Moore Josip Skoko John Aloisi Mark Viduka Lucas Neill Brett Emerton Vince Grella Mile Sterjovski Mark Bresciano Luke Wilkshire Joshua Kennedy Josip Šimunić (Croatia) Anthony Šerić (Croatia) Ivan Ergić (Serbia)
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Arthur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.1K,
Visits: 0
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adrtho wrote:Arthur wrote:adrtho wrote:Arthur wrote:The adoption of NRL and AFL models for Football is a key problem.
We have attempted to copy these models so that the Australian sporting market can more easily recognize the competition type. This so our sport can compete for market share in the sporting landscapes.
We have forsaken Football Culture for Australian Sporting Culture.
Even to the extent that we have adopted a cricket/netball structural model to development structures in the NPL and Zones. The seperation of Elite football from Community football in a user pays system is not a football culture.
and whats wrong with that???...sport trying to make football the way Europe does it South American have spit season...they have 2 champions each year , is this football Culture? Japan gone from European way to South American way, but add extra final play-off for Champion , is this football Culture Scotland and Belgium add a champion rounds, where the top part of table teams play each other and bottom half of table play each other , is this Football Culture? It look, anything that different in Europe or South American is Football Culture, but if it from Australia it's not Football Culture developed the Golden Generation; before we had Mark Viduka leading the Australian team playing at Leeds United competing in the Champions League soon we will have Apostolos Giannou formerly from Asteras Tripolis now in the Chinese League leading our attack. The football culture has weakened. i thought the AIS developed the Golden Generation Then you'd be wrong my friend
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scubaroo
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Group: Forum Members
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I don't see a sustainable pro/rel for 50 years or more but i do believe there should be expansion in a sustainable way and that may mean no more new clubs in the next 5 years but i hope it's sooner and then after that they should be looking at a 2nd level but it should be wholly national and clubs must be financially stable and have adequate facilities... i feel in the future the 2nd division will only be taken seriously if the clubs almost have a more professional (not pro players) appearance because that may be the only way sponsors,new supporters etc are going to take it seriously. Their targets may be harder to reach than the a-league teams because they have more to prove at a lower level where as the a-league teams have the prestige of being at the most exposed level.
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