If The religion of pieces isn't so violent why is it that every time one of these attacks happens it is them?

Why do you ignore the facts and keep insisting that there is no common theme in these attacks?

Do you honestly believe your denials that these attacks have nothing to do with Islam because your religious knowledge is greater than that of those who devote their lives and deaths to the act?

Don't you realise that it is ghoulish the way you rush in to capitalise on such an act of mass murder by boring us all shitless with your conspicuous morality?

no..this where you are wrong.... the idea that everything would be ok if American was not there.....When America pull out of the middle East (USA is now pulling out of middle east) we will see more war, more killing, and more terrorism attack

their not one reason, their not one side, theirs 100s of reason, and theirs 100s of sides



Edited by adrtho: 23/3/2016 04:01:08 AM

Lapsed Catholic. Spare me the lecture. Christians (or at least Catholics) take the New Testament literally and the Old Testament symbolically. The point is this. Christians have licence to be selective over which parts of the key literature informing their religion are to be understood literally and which parts are not.

The same goes with Islam. Most Muslim scholars do not interpret the whole of the Quran literally anymore than Catholics interpret the Old Testament literally.

But if one were to hold Catholics to the same standards that you, 11.mvfc.11 and others erroneously hold Muslims to, then precisely the same criticisms made of the Quran (and of Islam) could be levelled at the Bible (and at Christianity).

Edited by quickflick: 23/3/2016 03:56:15 AM

I'm talking about if the Invasion of Iraq had never taken place in the first place. Distasteful though the thought may be, had Saddam Hussein been left in place, this power vacuum in the Middle-East would not have assumed the dangerous shape it has taken.

oh yep..lets never for get, before 2003 Iraq war, 4 planes was use as bomb on New York and Washington dc that killed 3000 people

power vacuum has happen, because US has pulled out, not because of Saddam Hussein.....the US has said to hell with the Middle East , we don't need there oil any more , so the US doesn't need to secure the Gulf Sea


Edited by adrtho: 23/3/2016 04:07:10 AM

I'm not capitalising. I'm horrified by it. What scares me is the thought of those who simply hate Muslims capitalising on it.

People use these things as an opportunity to whip up dangerous, racist rhetoric.

I'm responding to that.



I'm glad you wrote this.

No, I don't. A small portion of Muslims are the ones to whom you refer. How do they operate? They capitalise on the marginalisation of other Muslims.

Great wrongs have been done to Muslims in recent times. Many Muslims have been marginalised. Every time that happens, we're that bit closer to the psychopaths who incite hatred of the West and plan these attacks being able to prey upon vulnerable Muslims.

When Muslims aren't marginalised and don't feel angry with our governments for wrongs done to Muslims in the Middle-East (that only happens when our governments haven't done wrongs to Muslims in the Middle-East), you don't find Muslims susceptible to undertaking atrocities against the West.

The market for psychopath extremists is comprised of marginalised Muslims.

Well, guess what. Many in Western society (even on this forum) are doing a great job at marginalising Muslims.

That means they're helping the extremists.

In my own little way, I'm trying to reason with emotional non-Muslims and try to turn them away from the putrid discourse which marginalises Muslims and thus fans the flame of terrorist activity.

It's the same psychological formula as Northern Ireland (both sides). A small percentage are genuinely psychopaths. They'll use anything as a vehicle for violence. A religion which they can selectively quote to promote violence works perfectly when people of that religion are already marginalised and being blown up in the Middle-East. This means they can prey upon other marginalised members of their community, who might not be bad people, and pervert the sense of righteous injustice they feel to induce them to do terrible, terrible things.

How do you stop it? You remove a key component in the equation. You cut out the middle man (=the marginalisation of ordinary Muslims). This is one of the biggest challenges facing every Western society, today.

adrtho

Since whendid Saddam Hussein send planes into the Twin Towers?

Edited by quickflick: 23/3/2016 04:17:47 AM

Donald Trump will be our next overlord, he will use this :lol:

so why do you keep taking about the Iraq war??, as the reason for terrorism?...you keep calming terrorism is happening because of Iraq war

i'm just pointing at, that terrorism happen before Iraq war, and had nothing to do with Iraq war



Edited by adrtho: 23/3/2016 05:28:42 AM

Yeah because with 30+ people dead, children without parents, and 100s horrifically injured, the most important thing here is the feelings of a bunch of lunatics that believe in an imaginary man.

True. It occurs far more frequently than it used to do because of the Invasion of Iraq and our involvement in Afghanistan and now Syria.

The terrorists constantly cite our occupation (or attempted occupation) and intervention of those places as one of the reasons why they commit terrorist atrocities.

I'm not,necessarily, saying we shouldn't intervene in Afghanistan and Syria. There can be a jus ad bellum in some cases. There can be a moral imperative to intervene (I wish we had intervened in Rwanda in 1994). However there was no jus ad bellum for the Invasion of Iraq. Or rather, the casus belli was predicated on the use of falsified intelligence. The only compelling argument in favour of the Invasion of Iraq (when you consider there never were any weapons of mass destruction) is to topple an evil dictator. Yes, Saddam was evil. But, as has shown to be the case by painful experience, it would have better for the estimated 600 000 Iraqi civilians killed (according to Lancet) in the Invasion of Iraq (not to mention countless troops) if Saddam had simply been left to it. Plus, an unquantifiably huge amount of the current extremist activity, originating in Syria has emerged from a vacuum left by Saddam's régime.

You can draw a big line between the Invasion of Iraq and current terrorist activity. Even when it's not a direct result, it's usually consequential to some degree.

These are not Iraqis seeking revenge. They are the dead shit children of Tunisian, Morrocan and Algerian parents. Them bombing anyone is like me bombing Cambodians to get back at the Khmer Rouge.

The 30+ people dead, hundreds horrifically injured and all their loved ones would prefer it if there had never been an attack in the first place.

If ordinary Muslims aren't marginalised, the chance of these terrorist acts happening is severely reduced. The extremist clerics prey upon vulnerable young Muslims who feel like everybody in society is treating them like shit and a (righteous) sense of injustice at the wrongs done to Muslims in the Middle-East. They are thereby susceptible to the indoctrination of psychopaths.

It's like a chemical reaction:

Psychopathic extremist clerics/co-ordinators of attacks + marginalised elements of Muslim society =

indoctrination towards extremist ideals > terrorist attacks

You are culpable of contributing to the toxic discourse which makes Muslims feel marginalised. People who do this are actually helping psychopathic extremist elements. They thank people who go about blaming all Muslims.

These attacks are evil. Words fail me. The victims of them have all my sympathy. You wouldn't wish this kind of suffering on your worst enemy.

But the best way to prevent things like this happening in the future is to remove one of the key elements necessary for these attacks to happen; don't make Muslims feel marginalised in the first place. Governments mustn't blow up children in drone attacks in the Middle-East. Apart from the fact that it's as immoral to do that as to attack an airport, it serves as a fantastic recruitment banner for extremists.

So, simply, don't contribute to the marginalisation of Muslims.

Words fail me again. Not often that happens.

Indeed. You blame this on western Iraq policy but fail to link the assailants to that - unless it's by religion. Which then contradicts your entire position.

I'd say it to show that any part of anything can be used to suit ones motives

Do we blame every Christian for KKK or every Gernam for Hitler....somehow I don't think so

History repeats it self again, world war 4 is coming.

Hitler didn't do it in the name of Jesus.

The KKK isn't blowing people up or machine gunning them down every second day.

If these happened, then yes we would blame Christianity.

Incorrect.

More cerebral readers will understand that very rarely is there a single reason why things happen in history. There are usually multiple factors.

Islamic extremism is no different.

The kind of formula I provided for Islamic extremism was designed so that a primary schooler would understand. I'm sorry if that has gone over your head.

I have, correctly, pointed to one of the key ingredients, if you will, necessary for Islamic extremism. Western foreign policy and marginalisation of Muslims in Western countries are the cause of this key ingredient.

I have linked, in that formula, these marginalised Muslims (one key ingredient) with the evil, extremist Muslim clerics (the other key ingredient).

That's the link.

And no, that doesn't undermine (let alone contradict) my position; that mainstream Islam is not the source of the problem here.

We're talking about fundamentalist extremists hellbent on death and destruction. These people are extremists, not mainstream.

Any credible scholar of the Islamic world (Muslim or non-Muslim) will attest to that.

You might as well say that because some radical feminists may believe that men should not be permitted in government, feminism is against men being in government or at least that feminism prevents men from being in government.

That's quite literally the equivalent of what you're saying. You're using the most extreme views of a small minority to misrepresent a religion.

=d>
If they stop blowing themselves up, the world wouldn't marginalise them.

This thread keeps repeating itself that's for sure with the same protagonists and the same bigoted views.

Whooosh. The sound of the point flying about 38 000 ft over your head. Not the first time, either.

For African-Americans, there was a time when the threat posed by the KKK was far more dangerous than the threat posed to any of us by Muslims today.

That didn't act as indictment of Christianity.

Around 75 years ago, the threat posed to Jews (and countless others) by Nazi aggression/racial policy was immeasurably higher than the threat posed to any of us by Muslims today.

Yet that doesn't somehow render Germans, generally, culpable for Nazi atrocities (nevertheless they were punished as if they were).

I don't support any war for any reason in the Middle East. However the logic of apologists is frustrating.

Terrorist: we are doing this in the name of Islam to set up an Islamic state.
Apologists: This has nothing to do with Islam.

I don't give a fuck what religion anyone is, but bloody hell.

Get off your high horse, the people of Belgium haven't done anything to deserve this. It's a direct response to the arrest of that filth involved in the Paris bombimg. Crazy how deep some heads are in the sand to not recognise Islam is the continuing correlation. These scumbags would have little/no connection to the middle east other than their religion.

@quickflick, sorry so what did Christianity have to do with hitlers attrocities again? (Btw I think they've generally just as stupid as any other religion).

Edited by tsf: 23/3/2016 07:47:53 AM

Nazis yelled "in the name of Jesus" before every murder, didn't you know?:roll:

Qickflick is nothing more than a bigot, blaming everyone else other than those responsible an attitude that will see these disgusting crimes continue.

Edited by Dan_The_Red: 23/3/2016 07:54:18 AM

Christ wept. The level of stupidity on here is staggering. The lack of empathy on here is something else.

They! They! They!

Again, the ridiculous generalisations and categorisations?

Why, pray tell, must a peace-loving Muslim to be put in the same category as a Muslim who blows himself up?

I'd say he has more in common with most other members of his society who obey the law, pay their taxes, support their local football team, etc., than with somebody who blows himself (and others) up.

No, it can't be that way though, can it? If you're racist, bigoted and hate Muslims... it's "us" and "them".

I'd much sooner hang out with my Muslim friends than with with some of the racist, incredibly thick jerks who frequent this forum. I'll say that much for free.

Edited by quickflick: 23/3/2016 07:55:42 AM

Of course they haven't.

You completely miss the point.

This is like talking to a brickwall. The WEST has done terrible things in the Middle-East. This is of great propaganda value for ISIS. Add to that, many Muslims feel marginalised. Why do they feel marginalised. Because people like you make them feel that way.

This means people are susceptible to indoctrination from extremist clerics (they wouldn't otherwise be nearly as susceptible). Then attacks follow.

The people of Belgium are the victims. But don't forget that Muslims have been the victims of marginalisation for while. It doesn't excuse the actions of those who commit atrocities. But it explains it.

Another horrible event.

I'll be interested to see how many of my facebook friends change their profile picture to the Belgium flag. I had a lot of questions over the French flag version, and how many people embraced it.

Not all Muslims are terrorists but to say that Islam doesn't play a part with the recent terrorism acts is madness. Call a spade a spade and say that there is a problem with a portion of the Islamic society which is hell bent on imposing their archaic religion on others.

Any discussion to the contrary is counter productive and an insult to the victims families who have to suffer from people being too politically correct to do anything about it.