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SWandP
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Thread has pages of bigotry, profiling, abuse, ignorance and 2 out of 3 posts are pathetic trolls. It's a thread with a subject (yes it had one) shared by other threads on the same page.
It's everything that 442 Forums has come to stand for!
Any decent BBS would have locked it by page 3.
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aussie scott21
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+xWhat a shitstain on the league this news is....AGAIN. Brisbane Roar is supposed to be one of the powerhouses of the league, 5 trophies, and evey year we see the same news about them. Players not paid. "Let's blame the owners.". No, let's not blame the owners. Let's blame the club and let's blame the city of Brisbane itself. It's about time this club became sustainable instead of having to rely on an owner like an unborn baby relies on his/her mother to be. A while back I posted my opinion on why this club is always in crisis, and I put it down to the hicksville mentality of Brisbane the city. And some of you thought I was trolling and had a crack at me. Well fuck you, what I said was on point. Brisbane just doesn't do socca. What do you have to say for yourselves now you fuckwitts? The city of Brisbane is bringing the whole league down. I can understand Newcastle being in this position, but Brisbane? A city of 2M plus people, with pretty much only the Broncos to compete with, with 5 trophies in its cabinet, and the Roar can't pay its players. Get fucken.Kick them out the league FFS. Brisbane should have 2 or so teams playing out of small venues. The Broncos are one of the most, if no the most supported club in any sport in Australia. I dont think we should compare any club to them.
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Amaru
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What a shitstain on the league this news is....AGAIN. Brisbane Roar is supposed to be one of the powerhouses of the league, 5 trophies, and evey year we see the same news about them. Players not paid. "Let's blame the owners.". No, let's not blame the owners. Let's blame the club and let's blame the city of Brisbane itself. It's about time this club became sustainable instead of having to rely on an owner like an unborn baby relies on his/her mother to be.
A while back I posted my opinion on why this club is always in crisis, and I put it down to the hicksville mentality of Brisbane the city. And some of you thought I was trolling and had a crack at me. Well fuck you, what I said was on point. Brisbane just doesn't do socca. What do you have to say for yourselves now you fuckwitts? The city of Brisbane is bringing the whole league down. I can understand Newcastle being in this position, but Brisbane? A city of 2M plus people, with pretty much only the Broncos to compete with, with 5 trophies in its cabinet, and the Roar can't pay its players.
Get fucken.
Kick them out the league FFS.
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scotty21
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QLD is where sport goes to die
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paulbagzFC
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Payment problems hurt the A-League not just players and staffIt’s pleasing that the club has caught up with all of their accounts with current players and staff. Indeed, this should always be the situation. It must be the norm. Unfortunately, it’s not.
By Sebastian Hassett
17 AUG 2016 - 8:46 PM UPDATED YESTERDAY 8:49 PM
Crisis continues as Cobb quits as Roar boss
Daniel Cobb has quit as Brisbane's managing director as a result of ongoing tensions with the club's current owners.
The press release from Brisbane Roar on Tuesday afternoon was short - and straight to the point.
“All A-League players, coaches and administration staff of the club have been paid,” read the first line. “In addition, superannuation payments for all players, coaches and administration staff are up to date.”
It’s pleasing that the club has caught up with all of their accounts with current players and staff. Indeed, this should always be the situation. It must be the norm.
Unfortunately, it’s not. Roughly half of the A-League clubs have had trouble paying their players (in some capacity) over the past decade. It’s not a problem unique to the Roar by any means.
The question needs to be put more pointedly to Football Federation Australia - why are teams being allowed to get away with this?
You don’t hear about it in the AFL. You don’t hear about it in the NRL (unless Nathan Tinkler is involved). It is just a total non-story. So why should the A-League be any different?
I have no doubt the situation has improved at most clubs as the message appears to have sunk in with owners. If you own the club, and can enjoy the glory and status of that, you have to pay up in a timely fashion.
Late payments - and dishonoured payments - are also a slap in the face to the other owners in the league because an owner who doesn’t pay the bills sullies the entire competition. Not to mention the huge damage you do to your own personal (and business) brand.
The A-League has a hard enough time attracting top class players to these shores without the concern of whether playing here will see you left with unpaid wages. German midfielder Peter Perchtold and Brazilian Robson struck that exact situation during their ill-fated stint at Gold Coast United. It’s not just players, too. Sacked Central Coast coach Phil Moss took several months to secure his severance package from the Mariners. Branko Culina took even longer to get anything out of Newcastle. Adelaide had a terrible time extricating themselves from Dutchman Rini Coolen, but the most concerning now is the situation surrounding Mike Mulvey. Sacked just months after signing a three-year deal, the club have so far refused to pay him the money he is owed. It's a really bad look - not to mention grossly unfair. Nobody likes to part with money, but if there’s a contract, signed in good faith, it needs to be honoured. Speaking as somebody who has covered this game since the turn of the century, I find it greatly disheartening how money issues continue to crop up in our game. How naive we were to think it would end with the National Soccer League. The sad truth is that every time problems do arise, they distract the media from covering other, more positive aspects of the game. It’s a pretty well-worn narrative - which some outlets keenly pounce on - and tends to reinforce the sport’s status as a second class citizen. When Professional Footballers Australia struck their Collective Bargaining Agreement in 2012, it promised to ensure the players’ wages, in the salary cap, were covered in full. Theoretically, that should have ended the late payment of wages once and for all. But it didn’t. Disappointingly, some clubs still failed their obligations. Thankfully, most of the A-League owners do the right thing, and continue to spend and spend (often without much gratitude), despite the red ink that spills over most balance sheets. But the rebels need reigning in. A late payment or two may be understandable, but anything more is unacceptable. Having successfully re-packaged the Newcastle Jets and sold them to an ambitious new owner, hopefully the FFA won’t be scared to flex their muscles in the future and find the investors the game needs. It's the least the football community deserves. http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blog/2016/08/17/payment-problems-hurt-league-not-just-players-and-staff
-PB
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TheSelectFew
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Heineken
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What a pathetic joke of a club. What as pathetic joke of a state. Cant even get behind 1 out of once 3 potential A-League teams. Joke of a state.
WOLLONGONG WOLVES FOR A-LEAGUE EXPANSION!
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aufc_ole
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3 years tops
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bohemia
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+xDaniel Cobb has resigned as Brisbane's Managing Director and says he will submit a final offer to buy the A-League club from their current owners, the Indonesian-based Bakrie Group. Cobb stated he had paid the club's bills out of his own pocket after claims that staff and players hadn't been paid were made public. Cobb stated he had paid the club's bills out of his own pocket after claims that staff and players hadn't been paid were made public. Cobb also stated that the Bakrie Group had failed to deliver on a promise to inject $1.1 million into the club, something promised to him when he agreed to take on the role of Managing Director with the club. Cobb also stated that the Bakrie Group had failed to deliver on a promise to inject $1.1 million into the club, something promised to him when he agreed to take on the role of Managing Director with the club.
http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2016/08/17/crisis-continues-cobb-quits-roar-boss-0
May want to buy a club that may be insolvent and owes him money. Strange coincidence.
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And Everyone Blamed Clive
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Brisbane Roar The gift that keeps on giving
Winner of Official 442 Comment of the day Award - 10th April 2017
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AJF
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Just heard a rumor that a well know Melbourne based club has put in an offer of 6 cevaps, 3 cabbage rolls and a slab of Karlovacka to the Bakries as well. paulc is frantically trying to organize a counter offer of 20 pairs of clogs and a bunch of tulips,
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Mr B
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+x+xFMD, it just never ends. What a joke of a club, Time to support Melbourne Victory. :crying: Not far from it, they know how to run a club at least.
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Gayfish
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+xFMD, it just never ends. What a joke of a club, Time to support Melbourne Victory.
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Mr B
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FMD, it just never ends. What a joke.
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Gazzza
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+xWtf is going on The events could have an immediate impact on coach John Aloisi’s plans for the new season, as it’s understood German import Jerome Polenz won’t receive the first part of his severance package, which was due on Wednesday. Polenz had agreed to mutually terminate his contract with Brisbane and the club made an official announcement on Monday that he was leaving. Cobb said it was disgusting that the Bakries had failed to provide the money for Polenz’s payout. Asked if the Roar had been trading while insolvent, Cobb said: “I’m not prepared to answer that question.” AAP understands Cobb was already likely to be sacked by the Bakries, who had grown suspicious of him after his falling out with Aloisi and football director Craig Moore.
http://sportsbusinessinsider.com.au/news/cobb-quits-brisbane-roars-crisis-widens/
LOL Cobb laying in to the Bakries, and wants to make a final offer, the guy is a nutjob.
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Gazzza
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The more I hear from the Cobb the more dodgy he sounds by sounding like he is not the blame etc etc. Should never have been hired and the only the one to blame for that is the Bakries. So he is blaming them and then going to make one last offer? LOL Yea that will work, as if he used his own cash as well what a laugh. FFA were angry before so what will they be now, super angry?
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jlm8695
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Wtf is going on The events could have an immediate impact on coach John Aloisi’s plans for the new season, as it’s understood German import Jerome Polenz won’t receive the first part of his severance package, which was due on Wednesday. Polenz had agreed to mutually terminate his contract with Brisbane and the club made an official announcement on Monday that he was leaving. Cobb said it was disgusting that the Bakries had failed to provide the money for Polenz’s payout. Asked if the Roar had been trading while insolvent, Cobb said: “I’m not prepared to answer that question.” AAP understands Cobb was already likely to be sacked by the Bakries, who had grown suspicious of him after his falling out with Aloisi and football director Craig Moore.
http://sportsbusinessinsider.com.au/news/cobb-quits-brisbane-roars-crisis-widens/
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Aikhme
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+xDaniel Cobb has resigned as Brisbane's Managing Director and says he will submit a final offer to buy the A-League club from their current owners, the Indonesian-based Bakrie Group. Cobb stated he had paid the club's bills out of his own pocket after claims that staff and players hadn't been paid were made public. Cobb stated he had paid the club's bills out of his own pocket after claims that staff and players hadn't been paid were made public. Cobb also stated that the Bakrie Group had failed to deliver on a promise to inject $1.1 million into the club, something promised to him when he agreed to take on the role of Managing Director with the club. Cobb also stated that the Bakrie Group had failed to deliver on a promise to inject $1.1 million into the club, something promised to him when he agreed to take on the role of Managing Director with the club.
http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2016/08/17/crisis-continues-cobb-quits-roar-boss-0
I have called SMFC to see if they will come to the rescue. ;)
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jlm8695
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Ever since day 1 I haven't trusted Cobb. Best case scenario I see is him fucking off, Bakries defaulting and the FFA taking Roar over, This has to stop.
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jlm8695
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Daniel Cobb has resigned as Brisbane's Managing Director and says he will submit a final offer to buy the A-League club from their current owners, the Indonesian-based Bakrie Group. Cobb stated he had paid the club's bills out of his own pocket after claims that staff and players hadn't been paid were made public. Cobb stated he had paid the club's bills out of his own pocket after claims that staff and players hadn't been paid were made public. Cobb also stated that the Bakrie Group had failed to deliver on a promise to inject $1.1 million into the club, something promised to him when he agreed to take on the role of Managing Director with the club. Cobb also stated that the Bakrie Group had failed to deliver on a promise to inject $1.1 million into the club, something promised to him when he agreed to take on the role of Managing Director with the club.
http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2016/08/17/crisis-continues-cobb-quits-roar-boss-0
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jlm8695
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TheSelectFew
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAll we need is to replace this EFFNIK Dutch club with Brisbane Strikers. :) They would be bankrupt before years end if Strikers got in. We need serious backing for clubs moving forward. Not corner store operations that most ex NSL clubs run on. fmd have you started to paraphrase paulc? No just speaking more sense than some on here that would be happy to have a tuck shop team in the top flight of our comp as if its the NPL.. Your elitest attitude is what is wrong with Australian football. At what point does it become about supporting Sydney FC first? Elitist attitude?? No it's about not being provincial which is the problem with so many supporters here. They are still stuck in the mentality of our game being a niche little sport that is supported by the minorities rather than the majority in this country. If we want to grow the game (at the expense of alienating a few old bitters who have never really embraced the a-league) by looking at bigger companies or consortiums to take charge of our clubs with deep pockets and real ability to grow the club then that's what we should strive for. By having clubs with minimal backing but old school sentiment such as some of the ex NSL clubs, will not get us far. What the FFA needs to do better is making sure serious people with serious funds are able to take control of our clubs. Clearly with Brisbane Roar and Gold Coast they got it wrong, however allocating licenses to clubs backed by the same type of financial strength as the CCM is just asking for trouble. Brisbane unlike CCM isn't a regional club and deserves a big backer to drive the club forward. The Brisbane Strikers would just be CCM V2.0. Im not sure why you think I want to turn the A-League into the NSL. I have said I want Strikers and SM in, but that is pretty much it. I have even said WW. You some how magically think we can pull 2-4 clubs out of thin air that will be as big as WSW or MV. Not going to happen. Franks model is working on you and you think any club coming in will automatically be as big as Sydney FC or should be. We have pretty much as many big clubs as we can squeeze out. Its time to think smaller. MV, MC SFC & WSW will always get the prime time matches so why do you care if a new club plays at a small venue? You support SFC, I dont see how this effects you. "oh my god, what will the people think if we have a team that plays at a 3000 seat stadium. I couldnt look them them in the eye" They will think sockah is a tin pot game, which may well match your vision but unsatisfactory to most. Spot on. Was just about to bold that last paragraph myself and infact it confirms my point even further about people here wanting to keep our game a little kids game that will never be taken seriously. 3000 would be an absolute disaster. Get out of the old school NSL style attendances as they were absolutely atrocious. Even now they aren't great but are miles infront of what they were prior to the A-league, hence why Franks model is working on me because it is absolutely MILES better than anything we've ever had, and all metrics will confirm that with regards to general popularity of the league. The argument about not bringing in new teams as big as WSW and Victory are a bit of a joke. I remember a plethora of threads prior to 2012 with people here whinging that introducing WSW would decimate Sydney fc and that we couldn;t handle 2 big clubs in a city. How wrong they were. I was and will always be in favour of having multiple clubs from within big metro cities, for reasons given many times previously. There will be room for regional teams but imo not until either a second league league is created or until we hit 14 or so teams in the a-league. It's not miles ahead. There were teams in the NSL getting very big crowds and they were breaking the million mark regularly. The game was talked down by the media, and then they had to bad years. That was Australia's racism shining through just like it shines through to this day. The HAL is dieing. That is the cool harsh reality. Just one calamity and that will be curtains. Just one team going bankrupt, and say bye bye to the TV Deal. We have always been on the brink. The two teams doing well in the NSL are now in the a-league. Perth Glory and Adelaide United of which United. I've looked at the stats for attendances for NSL games and many games were getting less than 3-4k in some instances less than 2k. Yes very successful.... Hahaha i laugh about your statement on A-league dieing. It must be hard for you as you've probably been on the same mantra since 2006 I imagine. See the reason why I know that there is no better solution is because all other clubs outside of the a-league are in no place to really get there shit in order with perhaps the exception of Sth Melbourne. No club has been able to really knock on the FFA's doors and convincingly make a case for being included. And you know why? Because all these clubs lack the fundamental ability to raise proper capital. They have no real backing. NONE! They run like a school tuck shop. They can barely scrape a few million together. So that's how I know there isn't a better solution at present despite a few clubs in the a-league having troubles of their own. I'm sure your tune will change though if in the event one of your beloved NSL teams makes it in the a-league right? Come back to me when you can prove that a dozen clubs outside of the A-league have $30m + in hard capital to invest in their club. Of course you will find bad statistics when you search for them. There are bad statistics in the HAL. I am talking about overall. For instance, Perth Glory had double the attendance back in the NSL than it does now in the HAL. So it has gone backwards ass many more will do soon. SMFC had good crowds as did a few other teams like Heart or whatever they were and some other new constructs. The NSL was achieving over 1 million through the gate, and the A League isn't doing much more than that either. Oh come on!! Where should I start. How about some facts hey. Back in 2002 the NSL had average attendance of 4,381 ( http://www.austadiums.com/news/news.php?id=8) which was only 15% lower than the previous season. Finding attendance records for the NSL is very difficult because it simply didn't really make news back then, however I managed to compile some stats regarding grand final attendances from 1984 onwards. Of the 23 matches played (3 years of which were home and away gf fixtures), in only 10 occasions out of the 23 did a grand final manage to rake in more than 15,000. And if we can safely assume that any grand final is usually 3 times or sometimes more than the average for in season games, you can safely say that average crowds for the NSL historically sit around the 4 - 5k mark. So no, the NSL was never ever anywhere near what the a-league is. Why not? Why do they need 20k every week? They have their own stadium. It's appropriately sized. They have a base set of supporters. They have history and trophies both domestically and internationally. They have produced socceroos. They add another team. Another set of viewers. Seems stupid to exclude on the basis of attendance alone. If you go back you will see that my comments towards Sth Melb are actually in support of a future aleague team. The reasons I gave were that they have really stepped up in the off field department. I still think they have some way to go with getting rid of that purely greek club image but overall they are doing well and should certainly be considered as the third or 4th melbourne team in the future. However the argument here is about whether Sth Melb was ever bigger than Brisbane which it isn't and never was. It was an argument that Aikme was trying to make. Sorry mate got confused amongst all the crap. Trophy wise it could be argued though....
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Aikhme
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAll we need is to replace this EFFNIK Dutch club with Brisbane Strikers. :) They would be bankrupt before years end if Strikers got in. We need serious backing for clubs moving forward. Not corner store operations that most ex NSL clubs run on. fmd have you started to paraphrase paulc? No just speaking more sense than some on here that would be happy to have a tuck shop team in the top flight of our comp as if its the NPL.. Your elitest attitude is what is wrong with Australian football. At what point does it become about supporting Sydney FC first? Elitist attitude?? No it's about not being provincial which is the problem with so many supporters here. They are still stuck in the mentality of our game being a niche little sport that is supported by the minorities rather than the majority in this country. If we want to grow the game (at the expense of alienating a few old bitters who have never really embraced the a-league) by looking at bigger companies or consortiums to take charge of our clubs with deep pockets and real ability to grow the club then that's what we should strive for. By having clubs with minimal backing but old school sentiment such as some of the ex NSL clubs, will not get us far. What the FFA needs to do better is making sure serious people with serious funds are able to take control of our clubs. Clearly with Brisbane Roar and Gold Coast they got it wrong, however allocating licenses to clubs backed by the same type of financial strength as the CCM is just asking for trouble. Brisbane unlike CCM isn't a regional club and deserves a big backer to drive the club forward. The Brisbane Strikers would just be CCM V2.0. Im not sure why you think I want to turn the A-League into the NSL. I have said I want Strikers and SM in, but that is pretty much it. I have even said WW. You some how magically think we can pull 2-4 clubs out of thin air that will be as big as WSW or MV. Not going to happen. Franks model is working on you and you think any club coming in will automatically be as big as Sydney FC or should be. We have pretty much as many big clubs as we can squeeze out. Its time to think smaller. MV, MC SFC & WSW will always get the prime time matches so why do you care if a new club plays at a small venue? You support SFC, I dont see how this effects you. "oh my god, what will the people think if we have a team that plays at a 3000 seat stadium. I couldnt look them them in the eye" They will think sockah is a tin pot game, which may well match your vision but unsatisfactory to most. Spot on. Was just about to bold that last paragraph myself and infact it confirms my point even further about people here wanting to keep our game a little kids game that will never be taken seriously. 3000 would be an absolute disaster. Get out of the old school NSL style attendances as they were absolutely atrocious. Even now they aren't great but are miles infront of what they were prior to the A-league, hence why Franks model is working on me because it is absolutely MILES better than anything we've ever had, and all metrics will confirm that with regards to general popularity of the league. The argument about not bringing in new teams as big as WSW and Victory are a bit of a joke. I remember a plethora of threads prior to 2012 with people here whinging that introducing WSW would decimate Sydney fc and that we couldn;t handle 2 big clubs in a city. How wrong they were. I was and will always be in favour of having multiple clubs from within big metro cities, for reasons given many times previously. There will be room for regional teams but imo not until either a second league league is created or until we hit 14 or so teams in the a-league. It's not miles ahead. There were teams in the NSL getting very big crowds and they were breaking the million mark regularly. The game was talked down by the media, and then they had to bad years. That was Australia's racism shining through just like it shines through to this day. The HAL is dieing. That is the cool harsh reality. Just one calamity and that will be curtains. Just one team going bankrupt, and say bye bye to the TV Deal. We have always been on the brink. The two teams doing well in the NSL are now in the a-league. Perth Glory and Adelaide United of which United. I've looked at the stats for attendances for NSL games and many games were getting less than 3-4k in some instances less than 2k. Yes very successful.... Hahaha i laugh about your statement on A-league dieing. It must be hard for you as you've probably been on the same mantra since 2006 I imagine. See the reason why I know that there is no better solution is because all other clubs outside of the a-league are in no place to really get there shit in order with perhaps the exception of Sth Melbourne. No club has been able to really knock on the FFA's doors and convincingly make a case for being included. And you know why? Because all these clubs lack the fundamental ability to raise proper capital. They have no real backing. NONE! They run like a school tuck shop. They can barely scrape a few million together. So that's how I know there isn't a better solution at present despite a few clubs in the a-league having troubles of their own. I'm sure your tune will change though if in the event one of your beloved NSL teams makes it in the a-league right? Come back to me when you can prove that a dozen clubs outside of the A-league have $30m + in hard capital to invest in their club. Of course you will find bad statistics when you search for them. There are bad statistics in the HAL. I am talking about overall. For instance, Perth Glory had double the attendance back in the NSL than it does now in the HAL. So it has gone backwards ass many more will do soon. SMFC had good crowds as did a few other teams like Heart or whatever they were and some other new constructs. The NSL was achieving over 1 million through the gate, and the A League isn't doing much more than that either. Oh come on!! Where should I start. How about some facts hey. Back in 2002 the NSL had average attendance of 4,381 ( http://www.austadiums.com/news/news.php?id=8) which was only 15% lower than the previous season. Finding attendance records for the NSL is very difficult because it simply didn't really make news back then, however I managed to compile some stats regarding grand final attendances from 1984 onwards. Of the 23 matches played (3 years of which were home and away gf fixtures), in only 10 occasions out of the 23 did a grand final manage to rake in more than 15,000. And if we can safely assume that any grand final is usually 3 times or sometimes more than the average for in season games, you can safely say that average crowds for the NSL historically sit around the 4 - 5k mark. So no, the NSL was never ever anywhere near what the a-league is. Why not? Why do they need 20k every week? They have their own stadium. It's appropriately sized. They have a base set of supporters. They have history and trophies both domestically and internationally. They have produced socceroos. They add another team. Another set of viewers. Seems stupid to exclude on the basis of attendance alone. If you go back you will see that my comments towards Sth Melb are actually in support of a future aleague team. The reasons I gave were that they have really stepped up in the off field department. I still think they have some way to go with getting rid of that purely greek club image but overall they are doing well and should certainly be considered as the third or 4th melbourne team in the future. However the argument here is about whether Sth Melb was ever bigger than Brisbane which it isn't and never was. It was an argument that Aikme was trying to make. Well that is great that you have that attitude. You will find that there are many who will not support the entry of SMFC at all. Now, that is like Greece having a ban on Olympiakos or Panathinaikos. It's not right, and it is holding Football back. Bare in mind, I am not delusional to actually think the HAL is a runaway success. let's be honest here. It isn't a big success at all. There are some hugely successful teams in the HAL, like WSW and MVFC which is massive, but lets look beyond them and AUFC, Sudney United, Newcastle, and Maybe Brisbane (although they are on the brink). Then we have Phoenix, CCM, Perth Glory. Speaking of Perth Glory, did you know that during the NSL, they had double the average they enjoy now under the HAL. Why is that? Obviously there is something wrong there.
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Aikhme
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Group: Banned Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAll we need is to replace this EFFNIK Dutch club with Brisbane Strikers. :) They would be bankrupt before years end if Strikers got in. We need serious backing for clubs moving forward. Not corner store operations that most ex NSL clubs run on. fmd have you started to paraphrase paulc? No just speaking more sense than some on here that would be happy to have a tuck shop team in the top flight of our comp as if its the NPL.. Your elitest attitude is what is wrong with Australian football. At what point does it become about supporting Sydney FC first? Elitist attitude?? No it's about not being provincial which is the problem with so many supporters here. They are still stuck in the mentality of our game being a niche little sport that is supported by the minorities rather than the majority in this country. If we want to grow the game (at the expense of alienating a few old bitters who have never really embraced the a-league) by looking at bigger companies or consortiums to take charge of our clubs with deep pockets and real ability to grow the club then that's what we should strive for. By having clubs with minimal backing but old school sentiment such as some of the ex NSL clubs, will not get us far. What the FFA needs to do better is making sure serious people with serious funds are able to take control of our clubs. Clearly with Brisbane Roar and Gold Coast they got it wrong, however allocating licenses to clubs backed by the same type of financial strength as the CCM is just asking for trouble. Brisbane unlike CCM isn't a regional club and deserves a big backer to drive the club forward. The Brisbane Strikers would just be CCM V2.0. Im not sure why you think I want to turn the A-League into the NSL. I have said I want Strikers and SM in, but that is pretty much it. I have even said WW. You some how magically think we can pull 2-4 clubs out of thin air that will be as big as WSW or MV. Not going to happen. Franks model is working on you and you think any club coming in will automatically be as big as Sydney FC or should be. We have pretty much as many big clubs as we can squeeze out. Its time to think smaller. MV, MC SFC & WSW will always get the prime time matches so why do you care if a new club plays at a small venue? You support SFC, I dont see how this effects you. "oh my god, what will the people think if we have a team that plays at a 3000 seat stadium. I couldnt look them them in the eye" They will think sockah is a tin pot game, which may well match your vision but unsatisfactory to most. Spot on. Was just about to bold that last paragraph myself and infact it confirms my point even further about people here wanting to keep our game a little kids game that will never be taken seriously. 3000 would be an absolute disaster. Get out of the old school NSL style attendances as they were absolutely atrocious. Even now they aren't great but are miles infront of what they were prior to the A-league, hence why Franks model is working on me because it is absolutely MILES better than anything we've ever had, and all metrics will confirm that with regards to general popularity of the league. The argument about not bringing in new teams as big as WSW and Victory are a bit of a joke. I remember a plethora of threads prior to 2012 with people here whinging that introducing WSW would decimate Sydney fc and that we couldn;t handle 2 big clubs in a city. How wrong they were. I was and will always be in favour of having multiple clubs from within big metro cities, for reasons given many times previously. There will be room for regional teams but imo not until either a second league league is created or until we hit 14 or so teams in the a-league. It's not miles ahead. There were teams in the NSL getting very big crowds and they were breaking the million mark regularly. The game was talked down by the media, and then they had to bad years. That was Australia's racism shining through just like it shines through to this day. The HAL is dieing. That is the cool harsh reality. Just one calamity and that will be curtains. Just one team going bankrupt, and say bye bye to the TV Deal. We have always been on the brink. The two teams doing well in the NSL are now in the a-league. Perth Glory and Adelaide United of which United. I've looked at the stats for attendances for NSL games and many games were getting less than 3-4k in some instances less than 2k. Yes very successful.... Hahaha i laugh about your statement on A-league dieing. It must be hard for you as you've probably been on the same mantra since 2006 I imagine. See the reason why I know that there is no better solution is because all other clubs outside of the a-league are in no place to really get there shit in order with perhaps the exception of Sth Melbourne. No club has been able to really knock on the FFA's doors and convincingly make a case for being included. And you know why? Because all these clubs lack the fundamental ability to raise proper capital. They have no real backing. NONE! They run like a school tuck shop. They can barely scrape a few million together. So that's how I know there isn't a better solution at present despite a few clubs in the a-league having troubles of their own. I'm sure your tune will change though if in the event one of your beloved NSL teams makes it in the a-league right? Come back to me when you can prove that a dozen clubs outside of the A-league have $30m + in hard capital to invest in their club. Of course you will find bad statistics when you search for them. There are bad statistics in the HAL. I am talking about overall. For instance, Perth Glory had double the attendance back in the NSL than it does now in the HAL. So it has gone backwards ass many more will do soon. SMFC had good crowds as did a few other teams like Heart or whatever they were and some other new constructs. The NSL was achieving over 1 million through the gate, and the A League isn't doing much more than that either. Oh come on!! Where should I start. How about some facts hey. Back in 2002 the NSL had average attendance of 4,381 ( http://www.austadiums.com/news/news.php?id=8) which was only 15% lower than the previous season. Finding attendance records for the NSL is very difficult because it simply didn't really make news back then, however I managed to compile some stats regarding grand final attendances from 1984 onwards. Of the 23 matches played (3 years of which were home and away gf fixtures), in only 10 occasions out of the 23 did a grand final manage to rake in more than 15,000. And if we can safely assume that any grand final is usually 3 times or sometimes more than the average for in season games, you can safely say that average crowds for the NSL historically sit around the 4 - 5k mark. So no, the NSL was never ever anywhere near what the a-league is. People are always quoting the 2002 and 2003 seasons. These were by far the 2 worse seasons in NSL history. But if you want to be completely corect and true, you need to go a bit further when the averages were higher. During the early 2000s, the NSL experienced a lot of negative press as if the media were hell bent on destroying the game. I remember it clearly with all the reports of violence and low attendances. It's amazing I made it out of their ALIVE! Of course it was all exagerated, but we are starting to see similar reports about the HAL but nothing like it was back then. It will get worse however.
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Aikhme
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAll we need is to replace this EFFNIK Dutch club with Brisbane Strikers. :) They would be bankrupt before years end if Strikers got in. We need serious backing for clubs moving forward. Not corner store operations that most ex NSL clubs run on. fmd have you started to paraphrase paulc? No just speaking more sense than some on here that would be happy to have a tuck shop team in the top flight of our comp as if its the NPL.. Your elitest attitude is what is wrong with Australian football. At what point does it become about supporting Sydney FC first? Elitist attitude?? No it's about not being provincial which is the problem with so many supporters here. They are still stuck in the mentality of our game being a niche little sport that is supported by the minorities rather than the majority in this country. If we want to grow the game (at the expense of alienating a few old bitters who have never really embraced the a-league) by looking at bigger companies or consortiums to take charge of our clubs with deep pockets and real ability to grow the club then that's what we should strive for. By having clubs with minimal backing but old school sentiment such as some of the ex NSL clubs, will not get us far. What the FFA needs to do better is making sure serious people with serious funds are able to take control of our clubs. Clearly with Brisbane Roar and Gold Coast they got it wrong, however allocating licenses to clubs backed by the same type of financial strength as the CCM is just asking for trouble. Brisbane unlike CCM isn't a regional club and deserves a big backer to drive the club forward. The Brisbane Strikers would just be CCM V2.0. Im not sure why you think I want to turn the A-League into the NSL. I have said I want Strikers and SM in, but that is pretty much it. I have even said WW. You some how magically think we can pull 2-4 clubs out of thin air that will be as big as WSW or MV. Not going to happen. Franks model is working on you and you think any club coming in will automatically be as big as Sydney FC or should be. We have pretty much as many big clubs as we can squeeze out. Its time to think smaller. MV, MC SFC & WSW will always get the prime time matches so why do you care if a new club plays at a small venue? You support SFC, I dont see how this effects you. "oh my god, what will the people think if we have a team that plays at a 3000 seat stadium. I couldnt look them them in the eye" They will think sockah is a tin pot game, which may well match your vision but unsatisfactory to most. Spot on. Was just about to bold that last paragraph myself and infact it confirms my point even further about people here wanting to keep our game a little kids game that will never be taken seriously. 3000 would be an absolute disaster. Get out of the old school NSL style attendances as they were absolutely atrocious. Even now they aren't great but are miles infront of what they were prior to the A-league, hence why Franks model is working on me because it is absolutely MILES better than anything we've ever had, and all metrics will confirm that with regards to general popularity of the league. The argument about not bringing in new teams as big as WSW and Victory are a bit of a joke. I remember a plethora of threads prior to 2012 with people here whinging that introducing WSW would decimate Sydney fc and that we couldn;t handle 2 big clubs in a city. How wrong they were. I was and will always be in favour of having multiple clubs from within big metro cities, for reasons given many times previously. There will be room for regional teams but imo not until either a second league league is created or until we hit 14 or so teams in the a-league. It's not miles ahead. There were teams in the NSL getting very big crowds and they were breaking the million mark regularly. The game was talked down by the media, and then they had to bad years. That was Australia's racism shining through just like it shines through to this day. The HAL is dieing. That is the cool harsh reality. Just one calamity and that will be curtains. Just one team going bankrupt, and say bye bye to the TV Deal. We have always been on the brink. The two teams doing well in the NSL are now in the a-league. Perth Glory and Adelaide United of which United. I've looked at the stats for attendances for NSL games and many games were getting less than 3-4k in some instances less than 2k. Yes very successful.... Hahaha i laugh about your statement on A-league dieing. It must be hard for you as you've probably been on the same mantra since 2006 I imagine. See the reason why I know that there is no better solution is because all other clubs outside of the a-league are in no place to really get there shit in order with perhaps the exception of Sth Melbourne. No club has been able to really knock on the FFA's doors and convincingly make a case for being included. And you know why? Because all these clubs lack the fundamental ability to raise proper capital. They have no real backing. NONE! They run like a school tuck shop. They can barely scrape a few million together. So that's how I know there isn't a better solution at present despite a few clubs in the a-league having troubles of their own. I'm sure your tune will change though if in the event one of your beloved NSL teams makes it in the a-league right? Come back to me when you can prove that a dozen clubs outside of the A-league have $30m + in hard capital to invest in their club. Of course you will find bad statistics when you search for them. There are bad statistics in the HAL. I am talking about overall. For instance, Perth Glory had double the attendance back in the NSL than it does now in the HAL. So it has gone backwards ass many more will do soon. SMFC had good crowds as did a few other teams like Heart or whatever they were and some other new constructs. The NSL was achieving over 1 million through the gate, and the A League isn't doing much more than that either. This is very approx. and just going by memory (could be f*cked checking it all out) but it's in this order. The best the NSL averaged was around 5,000 / game or about 1/3 of HAL's best year. When 2 mono ethnic teams played in a final you would never get capacity crowd. Even with Hellas 17,000 biggest attendance. HAL capacity 40,000 to 50,000 constantly. NSL even had crowds as low as a few hundred. Not even CCM in the HAL could scoop that low. So please don't continue with your deluded BS of NSL grandeur because its all figment of your imagination. No not true. SMFC average around 10,000 and the big finals in the old NSL would get crowds of 30 to 40k. You can't be selective with your statistics. The highest attendance was 45K http://www.ozfootball.net/ark/NSL/NSL.shtmlIf SMFC got 17,000 for a Final, it's because that is what was their capacity at the time. One thing is for sure, there were NSL teams with far greater attendances than Brisbane, and SMFC was one of them. Perth Glory use to average 13K but under the HAL they only average 7K. Fuck you are seriously talking out of your arse. I work on facts. Thankfully they don't lie and the truth can be told. South Melbourne as you just stated averaged 10k. Brisbane has only ever once in the 11 years averaged below that and it's second lowest average year was 11.5k. The avg overall attendance for Brisbane in the 11 years is 14,316.So no Sth Melbourne was never a bigger team than Brisbane. And Perth Glory, no they have never averaged 7k in any year, their average over the 11 years is actually 9,155 which admittedly isn't great however they haven't really been very successful other than making the gf once in their 11 year history in the a-league. Compared to them dominating back in the NSL days it's no surprise. But let's not cherry pick one side or another otherwise it will get embarrassing if we start adding Victory, WSW and Sydney FC to the mix. Fact of the matter is that in the 30 odd years of the NSL, attendances never really jumped much higher than 4-5k average per season. In only one season in the A-league has the average ever dipped below 10k and that was during the horror of Fury and Gold Coast. http://www.ultimatealeague.com/records.php?type=att&season=2013-14 I never said they were a bigger team. The are however a bigger club, with a better history, and since we generally agree on the figures, then SMFC is surely adequate enough to participate in the HAL. If my estimates are correct and SMFC can achieve crowds of around 10K, which is only 1.5K behind Brisbane, then SMFC should be in the competition because there are many teams which achieve a far lower average.
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AJF
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.7K,
Visits: 2
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]All we need is to replace this EFFNIK Dutch club with Brisbane Strikers. :) They would be bankrupt before years end if Strikers got in. We need serious backing for clubs moving forward. Not corner store operations that most ex NSL clubs run on. fmd have you started to paraphrase paulc? No just speaking more sense than some on here that would be happy to have a tuck shop team in the top flight of our comp as if its the NPL.. Your elitest attitude is what is wrong with Australian football. At what point does it become about supporting Sydney FC first? Elitist attitude?? No it's about not being provincial which is the problem with so many supporters here. They are still stuck in the mentality of our game being a niche little sport that is supported by the minorities rather than the majority in this country. If we want to grow the game (at the expense of alienating a few old bitters who have never really embraced the a-league) by looking at bigger companies or consortiums to take charge of our clubs with deep pockets and real ability to grow the club then that's what we should strive for. By having clubs with minimal backing but old school sentiment such as some of the ex NSL clubs, will not get us far. What the FFA needs to do better is making sure serious people with serious funds are able to take control of our clubs. Clearly with Brisbane Roar and Gold Coast they got it wrong, however allocating licenses to clubs backed by the same type of financial strength as the CCM is just asking for trouble. Brisbane unlike CCM isn't a regional club and deserves a big backer to drive the club forward. The Brisbane Strikers would just be CCM V2.0. Im not sure why you think I want to turn the A-League into the NSL. I have said I want Strikers and SM in, but that is pretty much it. I have even said WW. You some how magically think we can pull 2-4 clubs out of thin air that will be as big as WSW or MV. Not going to happen. Franks model is working on you and you think any club coming in will automatically be as big as Sydney FC or should be. We have pretty much as many big clubs as we can squeeze out. Its time to think smaller. MV, MC SFC & WSW will always get the prime time matches so why do you care if a new club plays at a small venue? You support SFC, I dont see how this effects you. "oh my god, what will the people think if we have a team that plays at a 3000 seat stadium. I couldnt look them them in the eye" They will think sockah is a tin pot game, which may well match your vision but unsatisfactory to most. Spot on. Was just about to bold that last paragraph myself and infact it confirms my point even further about people here wanting to keep our game a little kids game that will never be taken seriously. 3000 would be an absolute disaster. Get out of the old school NSL style attendances as they were absolutely atrocious. Even now they aren't great but are miles infront of what they were prior to the A-league, hence why Franks model is working on me because it is absolutely MILES better than anything we've ever had, and all metrics will confirm that with regards to general popularity of the league. The argument about not bringing in new teams as big as WSW and Victory are a bit of a joke. I remember a plethora of threads prior to 2012 with people here whinging that introducing WSW would decimate Sydney fc and that we couldn;t handle 2 big clubs in a city. How wrong they were. I was and will always be in favour of having multiple clubs from within big metro cities, for reasons given many times previously. There will be room for regional teams but imo not until either a second league league is created or until we hit 14 or so teams in the a-league. It's not miles ahead. There were teams in the NSL getting very big crowds and they were breaking the million mark regularly. The game was talked down by the media, and then they had to bad years. That was Australia's racism shining through just like it shines through to this day. The HAL is dieing. That is the cool harsh reality. Just one calamity and that will be curtains. Just one team going bankrupt, and say bye bye to the TV Deal. We have always been on the brink. The two teams doing well in the NSL are now in the a-league. Perth Glory and Adelaide United of which United. I've looked at the stats for attendances for NSL games and many games were getting less than 3-4k in some instances less than 2k. Yes very successful.... Hahaha i laugh about your statement on A-league dieing. It must be hard for you as you've probably been on the same mantra since 2006 I imagine. See the reason why I know that there is no better solution is because all other clubs outside of the a-league are in no place to really get there shit in order with perhaps the exception of Sth Melbourne. No club has been able to really knock on the FFA's doors and convincingly make a case for being included. And you know why? Because all these clubs lack the fundamental ability to raise proper capital. They have no real backing. NONE! They run like a school tuck shop. They can barely scrape a few million together. So that's how I know there isn't a better solution at present despite a few clubs in the a-league having troubles of their own. I'm sure your tune will change though if in the event one of your beloved NSL teams makes it in the a-league right? Come back to me when you can prove that a dozen clubs outside of the A-league have $30m + in hard capital to invest in their club. Of course you will find bad statistics when you search for them. There are bad statistics in the HAL. I am talking about overall. For instance, Perth Glory had double the attendance back in the NSL than it does now in the HAL. So it has gone backwards ass many more will do soon. SMFC had good crowds as did a few other teams like Heart or whatever they were and some other new constructs. The NSL was achieving over 1 million through the gate, and the A League isn't doing much more than that either. The best the NSL averaged was around 5,000 / game or about 1/3 of HAL's best year. When 2 mono ethnic teams played in a final you would never get capacity crowd. Even with Hellas 17,000 biggest attendance. HAL capacity 40,000 to 50,000 constantly. NSL even had crowds as low as a few hundred. Not even CCM in the HAL could scoop that low. Please don't continue with your deluded BS of NSL grandeur because its all figment of your imagination. wrong again. 1989 Marconi Stallions v. Sydney Olympic, Parramatta Stadium,Attendance 23,387 1989–90 Sydney Olympic v. Marconi Stallions, ParramattaStadium, Attendance 26,353 1990–91 South Melbourne v. Melbourne Knights, Olympic Park, Attendance 21,338 Official capacity Olympic park: 18,500 ( 11,000 seats)
You've made me check and there those few higher that 17,000 agree. South Melb Hellas couldn't muster more than 16,000 in their other two home finals in the 90's (not a good sign for those advocating Hellas will bump the crowds). Attendances involving broad based NSL teams in a home final was around 40,000. I recall Brisbane Strikers having to shut the gates early. But you've made no mention of the NSL best average vs HAL's best average? Figures any good? How did I go? Brisbane Roar could have had at least 50% more in a Suncorp finals match except for its little capacity of 52,000. MVFC once could have filled the MCG in a final going buy the demand, reports and chatters. How does that all compare to the NSL? Usually checking the facts before using them to make a point is a good idea, otherwise you may look stoopid. Some more interesting stats for you: Largest NSL final, Perth v Wollongong, 43K in 2000. Largest ever football attendance in Australia was Olympic final in 2000 with 104,098. Smallest HAL: NQ Fury v. Roar 1,003 in 2011. Sokkah existed before the HAL and the unfortunate truth for you is that without the NSL and the effniks there would never have been a HAL.
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Davo1985
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.6K,
Visits: 1
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAll we need is to replace this EFFNIK Dutch club with Brisbane Strikers. :) They would be bankrupt before years end if Strikers got in. We need serious backing for clubs moving forward. Not corner store operations that most ex NSL clubs run on. fmd have you started to paraphrase paulc? No just speaking more sense than some on here that would be happy to have a tuck shop team in the top flight of our comp as if its the NPL.. Your elitest attitude is what is wrong with Australian football. At what point does it become about supporting Sydney FC first? Elitist attitude?? No it's about not being provincial which is the problem with so many supporters here. They are still stuck in the mentality of our game being a niche little sport that is supported by the minorities rather than the majority in this country. If we want to grow the game (at the expense of alienating a few old bitters who have never really embraced the a-league) by looking at bigger companies or consortiums to take charge of our clubs with deep pockets and real ability to grow the club then that's what we should strive for. By having clubs with minimal backing but old school sentiment such as some of the ex NSL clubs, will not get us far. What the FFA needs to do better is making sure serious people with serious funds are able to take control of our clubs. Clearly with Brisbane Roar and Gold Coast they got it wrong, however allocating licenses to clubs backed by the same type of financial strength as the CCM is just asking for trouble. Brisbane unlike CCM isn't a regional club and deserves a big backer to drive the club forward. The Brisbane Strikers would just be CCM V2.0. Im not sure why you think I want to turn the A-League into the NSL. I have said I want Strikers and SM in, but that is pretty much it. I have even said WW. You some how magically think we can pull 2-4 clubs out of thin air that will be as big as WSW or MV. Not going to happen. Franks model is working on you and you think any club coming in will automatically be as big as Sydney FC or should be. We have pretty much as many big clubs as we can squeeze out. Its time to think smaller. MV, MC SFC & WSW will always get the prime time matches so why do you care if a new club plays at a small venue? You support SFC, I dont see how this effects you. "oh my god, what will the people think if we have a team that plays at a 3000 seat stadium. I couldnt look them them in the eye" They will think sockah is a tin pot game, which may well match your vision but unsatisfactory to most. Spot on. Was just about to bold that last paragraph myself and infact it confirms my point even further about people here wanting to keep our game a little kids game that will never be taken seriously. 3000 would be an absolute disaster. Get out of the old school NSL style attendances as they were absolutely atrocious. Even now they aren't great but are miles infront of what they were prior to the A-league, hence why Franks model is working on me because it is absolutely MILES better than anything we've ever had, and all metrics will confirm that with regards to general popularity of the league. The argument about not bringing in new teams as big as WSW and Victory are a bit of a joke. I remember a plethora of threads prior to 2012 with people here whinging that introducing WSW would decimate Sydney fc and that we couldn;t handle 2 big clubs in a city. How wrong they were. I was and will always be in favour of having multiple clubs from within big metro cities, for reasons given many times previously. There will be room for regional teams but imo not until either a second league league is created or until we hit 14 or so teams in the a-league. It's not miles ahead. There were teams in the NSL getting very big crowds and they were breaking the million mark regularly. The game was talked down by the media, and then they had to bad years. That was Australia's racism shining through just like it shines through to this day. The HAL is dieing. That is the cool harsh reality. Just one calamity and that will be curtains. Just one team going bankrupt, and say bye bye to the TV Deal. We have always been on the brink. The two teams doing well in the NSL are now in the a-league. Perth Glory and Adelaide United of which United. I've looked at the stats for attendances for NSL games and many games were getting less than 3-4k in some instances less than 2k. Yes very successful.... Hahaha i laugh about your statement on A-league dieing. It must be hard for you as you've probably been on the same mantra since 2006 I imagine. See the reason why I know that there is no better solution is because all other clubs outside of the a-league are in no place to really get there shit in order with perhaps the exception of Sth Melbourne. No club has been able to really knock on the FFA's doors and convincingly make a case for being included. And you know why? Because all these clubs lack the fundamental ability to raise proper capital. They have no real backing. NONE! They run like a school tuck shop. They can barely scrape a few million together. So that's how I know there isn't a better solution at present despite a few clubs in the a-league having troubles of their own. I'm sure your tune will change though if in the event one of your beloved NSL teams makes it in the a-league right? Come back to me when you can prove that a dozen clubs outside of the A-league have $30m + in hard capital to invest in their club. Of course you will find bad statistics when you search for them. There are bad statistics in the HAL. I am talking about overall. For instance, Perth Glory had double the attendance back in the NSL than it does now in the HAL. So it has gone backwards ass many more will do soon. SMFC had good crowds as did a few other teams like Heart or whatever they were and some other new constructs. The NSL was achieving over 1 million through the gate, and the A League isn't doing much more than that either. Oh come on!! Where should I start. How about some facts hey. Back in 2002 the NSL had average attendance of 4,381 ( http://www.austadiums.com/news/news.php?id=8) which was only 15% lower than the previous season. Finding attendance records for the NSL is very difficult because it simply didn't really make news back then, however I managed to compile some stats regarding grand final attendances from 1984 onwards. Of the 23 matches played (3 years of which were home and away gf fixtures), in only 10 occasions out of the 23 did a grand final manage to rake in more than 15,000. And if we can safely assume that any grand final is usually 3 times or sometimes more than the average for in season games, you can safely say that average crowds for the NSL historically sit around the 4 - 5k mark. So no, the NSL was never ever anywhere near what the a-league is. Why not? Why do they need 20k every week? They have their own stadium. It's appropriately sized. They have a base set of supporters. They have history and trophies both domestically and internationally. They have produced socceroos. They add another team. Another set of viewers. Seems stupid to exclude on the basis of attendance alone. If you go back you will see that my comments towards Sth Melb are actually in support of a future aleague team. The reasons I gave were that they have really stepped up in the off field department. I still think they have some way to go with getting rid of that purely greek club image but overall they are doing well and should certainly be considered as the third or 4th melbourne team in the future. However the argument here is about whether Sth Melb was ever bigger than Brisbane which it isn't and never was. It was an argument that Aikme was trying to make.
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 30K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAll we need is to replace this EFFNIK Dutch club with Brisbane Strikers. :) They would be bankrupt before years end if Strikers got in. We need serious backing for clubs moving forward. Not corner store operations that most ex NSL clubs run on. fmd have you started to paraphrase paulc? No just speaking more sense than some on here that would be happy to have a tuck shop team in the top flight of our comp as if its the NPL.. Your elitest attitude is what is wrong with Australian football. At what point does it become about supporting Sydney FC first? Elitist attitude?? No it's about not being provincial which is the problem with so many supporters here. They are still stuck in the mentality of our game being a niche little sport that is supported by the minorities rather than the majority in this country. If we want to grow the game (at the expense of alienating a few old bitters who have never really embraced the a-league) by looking at bigger companies or consortiums to take charge of our clubs with deep pockets and real ability to grow the club then that's what we should strive for. By having clubs with minimal backing but old school sentiment such as some of the ex NSL clubs, will not get us far. What the FFA needs to do better is making sure serious people with serious funds are able to take control of our clubs. Clearly with Brisbane Roar and Gold Coast they got it wrong, however allocating licenses to clubs backed by the same type of financial strength as the CCM is just asking for trouble. Brisbane unlike CCM isn't a regional club and deserves a big backer to drive the club forward. The Brisbane Strikers would just be CCM V2.0. Im not sure why you think I want to turn the A-League into the NSL. I have said I want Strikers and SM in, but that is pretty much it. I have even said WW. You some how magically think we can pull 2-4 clubs out of thin air that will be as big as WSW or MV. Not going to happen. Franks model is working on you and you think any club coming in will automatically be as big as Sydney FC or should be. We have pretty much as many big clubs as we can squeeze out. Its time to think smaller. MV, MC SFC & WSW will always get the prime time matches so why do you care if a new club plays at a small venue? You support SFC, I dont see how this effects you. "oh my god, what will the people think if we have a team that plays at a 3000 seat stadium. I couldnt look them them in the eye" They will think sockah is a tin pot game, which may well match your vision but unsatisfactory to most. Spot on. Was just about to bold that last paragraph myself and infact it confirms my point even further about people here wanting to keep our game a little kids game that will never be taken seriously. 3000 would be an absolute disaster. Get out of the old school NSL style attendances as they were absolutely atrocious. Even now they aren't great but are miles infront of what they were prior to the A-league, hence why Franks model is working on me because it is absolutely MILES better than anything we've ever had, and all metrics will confirm that with regards to general popularity of the league. The argument about not bringing in new teams as big as WSW and Victory are a bit of a joke. I remember a plethora of threads prior to 2012 with people here whinging that introducing WSW would decimate Sydney fc and that we couldn;t handle 2 big clubs in a city. How wrong they were. I was and will always be in favour of having multiple clubs from within big metro cities, for reasons given many times previously. There will be room for regional teams but imo not until either a second league league is created or until we hit 14 or so teams in the a-league. It's not miles ahead. There were teams in the NSL getting very big crowds and they were breaking the million mark regularly. The game was talked down by the media, and then they had to bad years. That was Australia's racism shining through just like it shines through to this day. The HAL is dieing. That is the cool harsh reality. Just one calamity and that will be curtains. Just one team going bankrupt, and say bye bye to the TV Deal. We have always been on the brink. The two teams doing well in the NSL are now in the a-league. Perth Glory and Adelaide United of which United. I've looked at the stats for attendances for NSL games and many games were getting less than 3-4k in some instances less than 2k. Yes very successful.... Hahaha i laugh about your statement on A-league dieing. It must be hard for you as you've probably been on the same mantra since 2006 I imagine. See the reason why I know that there is no better solution is because all other clubs outside of the a-league are in no place to really get there shit in order with perhaps the exception of Sth Melbourne. No club has been able to really knock on the FFA's doors and convincingly make a case for being included. And you know why? Because all these clubs lack the fundamental ability to raise proper capital. They have no real backing. NONE! They run like a school tuck shop. They can barely scrape a few million together. So that's how I know there isn't a better solution at present despite a few clubs in the a-league having troubles of their own. I'm sure your tune will change though if in the event one of your beloved NSL teams makes it in the a-league right? Come back to me when you can prove that a dozen clubs outside of the A-league have $30m + in hard capital to invest in their club. Of course you will find bad statistics when you search for them. There are bad statistics in the HAL. I am talking about overall. For instance, Perth Glory had double the attendance back in the NSL than it does now in the HAL. So it has gone backwards ass many more will do soon. SMFC had good crowds as did a few other teams like Heart or whatever they were and some other new constructs. The NSL was achieving over 1 million through the gate, and the A League isn't doing much more than that either. Oh come on!! Where should I start. How about some facts hey. Back in 2002 the NSL had average attendance of 4,381 ( http://www.austadiums.com/news/news.php?id=8) which was only 15% lower than the previous season. Finding attendance records for the NSL is very difficult because it simply didn't really make news back then, however I managed to compile some stats regarding grand final attendances from 1984 onwards. Of the 23 matches played (3 years of which were home and away gf fixtures), in only 10 occasions out of the 23 did a grand final manage to rake in more than 15,000. And if we can safely assume that any grand final is usually 3 times or sometimes more than the average for in season games, you can safely say that average crowds for the NSL historically sit around the 4 - 5k mark. So no, the NSL was never ever anywhere near what the a-league is. Why not? Why do they need 20k every week? They have their own stadium. It's appropriately sized. They have a base set of supporters. They have history and trophies both domestically and internationally. They have produced socceroos. They add another team. Another set of viewers. Seems stupid to exclude on the basis of attendance alone.
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Davo1985
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.6K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAll we need is to replace this EFFNIK Dutch club with Brisbane Strikers. :) They would be bankrupt before years end if Strikers got in. We need serious backing for clubs moving forward. Not corner store operations that most ex NSL clubs run on. fmd have you started to paraphrase paulc? No just speaking more sense than some on here that would be happy to have a tuck shop team in the top flight of our comp as if its the NPL.. Your elitest attitude is what is wrong with Australian football. At what point does it become about supporting Sydney FC first? Elitist attitude?? No it's about not being provincial which is the problem with so many supporters here. They are still stuck in the mentality of our game being a niche little sport that is supported by the minorities rather than the majority in this country. If we want to grow the game (at the expense of alienating a few old bitters who have never really embraced the a-league) by looking at bigger companies or consortiums to take charge of our clubs with deep pockets and real ability to grow the club then that's what we should strive for. By having clubs with minimal backing but old school sentiment such as some of the ex NSL clubs, will not get us far. What the FFA needs to do better is making sure serious people with serious funds are able to take control of our clubs. Clearly with Brisbane Roar and Gold Coast they got it wrong, however allocating licenses to clubs backed by the same type of financial strength as the CCM is just asking for trouble. Brisbane unlike CCM isn't a regional club and deserves a big backer to drive the club forward. The Brisbane Strikers would just be CCM V2.0. Im not sure why you think I want to turn the A-League into the NSL. I have said I want Strikers and SM in, but that is pretty much it. I have even said WW. You some how magically think we can pull 2-4 clubs out of thin air that will be as big as WSW or MV. Not going to happen. Franks model is working on you and you think any club coming in will automatically be as big as Sydney FC or should be. We have pretty much as many big clubs as we can squeeze out. Its time to think smaller. MV, MC SFC & WSW will always get the prime time matches so why do you care if a new club plays at a small venue? You support SFC, I dont see how this effects you. "oh my god, what will the people think if we have a team that plays at a 3000 seat stadium. I couldnt look them them in the eye" They will think sockah is a tin pot game, which may well match your vision but unsatisfactory to most. Spot on. Was just about to bold that last paragraph myself and infact it confirms my point even further about people here wanting to keep our game a little kids game that will never be taken seriously. 3000 would be an absolute disaster. Get out of the old school NSL style attendances as they were absolutely atrocious. Even now they aren't great but are miles infront of what they were prior to the A-league, hence why Franks model is working on me because it is absolutely MILES better than anything we've ever had, and all metrics will confirm that with regards to general popularity of the league. The argument about not bringing in new teams as big as WSW and Victory are a bit of a joke. I remember a plethora of threads prior to 2012 with people here whinging that introducing WSW would decimate Sydney fc and that we couldn;t handle 2 big clubs in a city. How wrong they were. I was and will always be in favour of having multiple clubs from within big metro cities, for reasons given many times previously. There will be room for regional teams but imo not until either a second league league is created or until we hit 14 or so teams in the a-league. It's not miles ahead. There were teams in the NSL getting very big crowds and they were breaking the million mark regularly. The game was talked down by the media, and then they had to bad years. That was Australia's racism shining through just like it shines through to this day. The HAL is dieing. That is the cool harsh reality. Just one calamity and that will be curtains. Just one team going bankrupt, and say bye bye to the TV Deal. We have always been on the brink. The two teams doing well in the NSL are now in the a-league. Perth Glory and Adelaide United of which United. I've looked at the stats for attendances for NSL games and many games were getting less than 3-4k in some instances less than 2k. Yes very successful.... Hahaha i laugh about your statement on A-league dieing. It must be hard for you as you've probably been on the same mantra since 2006 I imagine. See the reason why I know that there is no better solution is because all other clubs outside of the a-league are in no place to really get there shit in order with perhaps the exception of Sth Melbourne. No club has been able to really knock on the FFA's doors and convincingly make a case for being included. And you know why? Because all these clubs lack the fundamental ability to raise proper capital. They have no real backing. NONE! They run like a school tuck shop. They can barely scrape a few million together. So that's how I know there isn't a better solution at present despite a few clubs in the a-league having troubles of their own. I'm sure your tune will change though if in the event one of your beloved NSL teams makes it in the a-league right? Come back to me when you can prove that a dozen clubs outside of the A-league have $30m + in hard capital to invest in their club. Of course you will find bad statistics when you search for them. There are bad statistics in the HAL. I am talking about overall. For instance, Perth Glory had double the attendance back in the NSL than it does now in the HAL. So it has gone backwards ass many more will do soon. SMFC had good crowds as did a few other teams like Heart or whatever they were and some other new constructs. The NSL was achieving over 1 million through the gate, and the A League isn't doing much more than that either. This is very approx. and just going by memory (could be f*cked checking it all out) but it's in this order. The best the NSL averaged was around 5,000 / game or about 1/3 of HAL's best year. When 2 mono ethnic teams played in a final you would never get capacity crowd. Even with Hellas 17,000 biggest attendance. HAL capacity 40,000 to 50,000 constantly. NSL even had crowds as low as a few hundred. Not even CCM in the HAL could scoop that low. So please don't continue with your deluded BS of NSL grandeur because its all figment of your imagination. No not true. SMFC average around 10,000 and the big finals in the old NSL would get crowds of 30 to 40k. You can't be selective with your statistics. The highest attendance was 45K http://www.ozfootball.net/ark/NSL/NSL.shtmlIf SMFC got 17,000 for a Final, it's because that is what was their capacity at the time. One thing is for sure, there were NSL teams with far greater attendances than Brisbane, and SMFC was one of them. Perth Glory use to average 13K but under the HAL they only average 7K. Fuck you are seriously talking out of your arse. I work on facts. Thankfully they don't lie and the truth can be told. South Melbourne as you just stated averaged 10k. Brisbane has only ever once in the 11 years averaged below that and it's second lowest average year was 11.5k. The avg overall attendance for Brisbane in the 11 years is 14,316.So no Sth Melbourne was never a bigger team than Brisbane. And Perth Glory, no they have never averaged 7k in any year, their average over the 11 years is actually 9,155 which admittedly isn't great however they haven't really been very successful other than making the gf once in their 11 year history in the a-league. Compared to them dominating back in the NSL days it's no surprise. But let's not cherry pick one side or another otherwise it will get embarrassing if we start adding Victory, WSW and Sydney FC to the mix. Fact of the matter is that in the 30 odd years of the NSL, attendances never really jumped much higher than 4-5k average per season. In only one season in the A-league has the average ever dipped below 10k and that was during the horror of Fury and Gold Coast. http://www.ultimatealeague.com/records.php?type=att&season=2013-14
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scotty21
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Group: Forum Members
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Seriously when did this thread turn into the latest Pauly Hanson rant
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