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TheSelectFew
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paulbagzFC
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Payment problems hurt the A-League not just players and staffIt’s pleasing that the club has caught up with all of their accounts with current players and staff. Indeed, this should always be the situation. It must be the norm. Unfortunately, it’s not.
By Sebastian Hassett
17 AUG 2016 - 8:46 PM UPDATED YESTERDAY 8:49 PM
Crisis continues as Cobb quits as Roar boss
Daniel Cobb has quit as Brisbane's managing director as a result of ongoing tensions with the club's current owners.
The press release from Brisbane Roar on Tuesday afternoon was short - and straight to the point.
“All A-League players, coaches and administration staff of the club have been paid,” read the first line. “In addition, superannuation payments for all players, coaches and administration staff are up to date.”
It’s pleasing that the club has caught up with all of their accounts with current players and staff. Indeed, this should always be the situation. It must be the norm.
Unfortunately, it’s not. Roughly half of the A-League clubs have had trouble paying their players (in some capacity) over the past decade. It’s not a problem unique to the Roar by any means.
The question needs to be put more pointedly to Football Federation Australia - why are teams being allowed to get away with this?
You don’t hear about it in the AFL. You don’t hear about it in the NRL (unless Nathan Tinkler is involved). It is just a total non-story. So why should the A-League be any different?
I have no doubt the situation has improved at most clubs as the message appears to have sunk in with owners. If you own the club, and can enjoy the glory and status of that, you have to pay up in a timely fashion.
Late payments - and dishonoured payments - are also a slap in the face to the other owners in the league because an owner who doesn’t pay the bills sullies the entire competition. Not to mention the huge damage you do to your own personal (and business) brand.
The A-League has a hard enough time attracting top class players to these shores without the concern of whether playing here will see you left with unpaid wages. German midfielder Peter Perchtold and Brazilian Robson struck that exact situation during their ill-fated stint at Gold Coast United. It’s not just players, too. Sacked Central Coast coach Phil Moss took several months to secure his severance package from the Mariners. Branko Culina took even longer to get anything out of Newcastle. Adelaide had a terrible time extricating themselves from Dutchman Rini Coolen, but the most concerning now is the situation surrounding Mike Mulvey. Sacked just months after signing a three-year deal, the club have so far refused to pay him the money he is owed. It's a really bad look - not to mention grossly unfair. Nobody likes to part with money, but if there’s a contract, signed in good faith, it needs to be honoured. Speaking as somebody who has covered this game since the turn of the century, I find it greatly disheartening how money issues continue to crop up in our game. How naive we were to think it would end with the National Soccer League. The sad truth is that every time problems do arise, they distract the media from covering other, more positive aspects of the game. It’s a pretty well-worn narrative - which some outlets keenly pounce on - and tends to reinforce the sport’s status as a second class citizen. When Professional Footballers Australia struck their Collective Bargaining Agreement in 2012, it promised to ensure the players’ wages, in the salary cap, were covered in full. Theoretically, that should have ended the late payment of wages once and for all. But it didn’t. Disappointingly, some clubs still failed their obligations. Thankfully, most of the A-League owners do the right thing, and continue to spend and spend (often without much gratitude), despite the red ink that spills over most balance sheets. But the rebels need reigning in. A late payment or two may be understandable, but anything more is unacceptable. Having successfully re-packaged the Newcastle Jets and sold them to an ambitious new owner, hopefully the FFA won’t be scared to flex their muscles in the future and find the investors the game needs. It's the least the football community deserves. http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blog/2016/08/17/payment-problems-hurt-league-not-just-players-and-staff
-PB
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scotty21
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QLD is where sport goes to die
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Amaru
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What a shitstain on the league this news is....AGAIN. Brisbane Roar is supposed to be one of the powerhouses of the league, 5 trophies, and evey year we see the same news about them. Players not paid. "Let's blame the owners.". No, let's not blame the owners. Let's blame the club and let's blame the city of Brisbane itself. It's about time this club became sustainable instead of having to rely on an owner like an unborn baby relies on his/her mother to be.
A while back I posted my opinion on why this club is always in crisis, and I put it down to the hicksville mentality of Brisbane the city. And some of you thought I was trolling and had a crack at me. Well fuck you, what I said was on point. Brisbane just doesn't do socca. What do you have to say for yourselves now you fuckwitts? The city of Brisbane is bringing the whole league down. I can understand Newcastle being in this position, but Brisbane? A city of 2M plus people, with pretty much only the Broncos to compete with, with 5 trophies in its cabinet, and the Roar can't pay its players.
Get fucken.
Kick them out the league FFS.
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
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+xWhat a shitstain on the league this news is....AGAIN. Brisbane Roar is supposed to be one of the powerhouses of the league, 5 trophies, and evey year we see the same news about them. Players not paid. "Let's blame the owners.". No, let's not blame the owners. Let's blame the club and let's blame the city of Brisbane itself. It's about time this club became sustainable instead of having to rely on an owner like an unborn baby relies on his/her mother to be. A while back I posted my opinion on why this club is always in crisis, and I put it down to the hicksville mentality of Brisbane the city. And some of you thought I was trolling and had a crack at me. Well fuck you, what I said was on point. Brisbane just doesn't do socca. What do you have to say for yourselves now you fuckwitts? The city of Brisbane is bringing the whole league down. I can understand Newcastle being in this position, but Brisbane? A city of 2M plus people, with pretty much only the Broncos to compete with, with 5 trophies in its cabinet, and the Roar can't pay its players. Get fucken.Kick them out the league FFS. Brisbane should have 2 or so teams playing out of small venues. The Broncos are one of the most, if no the most supported club in any sport in Australia. I dont think we should compare any club to them.
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SWandP
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Thread has pages of bigotry, profiling, abuse, ignorance and 2 out of 3 posts are pathetic trolls. It's a thread with a subject (yes it had one) shared by other threads on the same page.
It's everything that 442 Forums has come to stand for!
Any decent BBS would have locked it by page 3.
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primtech
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The fact this club has won more games than any other since the leagues inception despite being in a constant state of crisis for almost its whole existence speaks volume about the quality of football played by the other clubs.
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And Everyone Blamed Clive
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+xThe fact this club has won more games than any other since the leagues inception despite being in a constant state of crisis for almost its whole existence speaks volume about the quality of football played by the other clubs. 😂😂😂😂
Winner of Official 442 Comment of the day Award - 10th April 2017
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And Everyone Blamed Clive
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Was wondering how the Mulvey issue had gone since last year
Winner of Official 442 Comment of the day Award - 10th April 2017
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bohemia
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+xPayment problems hurt the A-League not just players and staffIt’s pleasing that the club has caught up with all of their accounts with current players and staff. Indeed, this should always be the situation. It must be the norm. Unfortunately, it’s not.
By Sebastian Hassett
17 AUG 2016 - 8:46 PM UPDATED YESTERDAY 8:49 PM
Crisis continues as Cobb quits as Roar boss
Daniel Cobb has quit as Brisbane's managing director as a result of ongoing tensions with the club's current owners.
The press release from Brisbane Roar on Tuesday afternoon was short - and straight to the point.
“All A-League players, coaches and administration staff of the club have been paid,” read the first line. “In addition, superannuation payments for all players, coaches and administration staff are up to date.”
It’s pleasing that the club has caught up with all of their accounts with current players and staff. Indeed, this should always be the situation. It must be the norm.
Unfortunately, it’s not. Roughly half of the A-League clubs have had trouble paying their players (in some capacity) over the past decade. It’s not a problem unique to the Roar by any means.
The question needs to be put more pointedly to Football Federation Australia - why are teams being allowed to get away with this?
You don’t hear about it in the AFL. You don’t hear about it in the NRL (unless Nathan Tinkler is involved). It is just a total non-story. So why should the A-League be any different?
I have no doubt the situation has improved at most clubs as the message appears to have sunk in with owners. If you own the club, and can enjoy the glory and status of that, you have to pay up in a timely fashion.
Late payments - and dishonoured payments - are also a slap in the face to the other owners in the league because an owner who doesn’t pay the bills sullies the entire competition. Not to mention the huge damage you do to your own personal (and business) brand.
The A-League has a hard enough time attracting top class players to these shores without the concern of whether playing here will see you left with unpaid wages. German midfielder Peter Perchtold and Brazilian Robson struck that exact situation during their ill-fated stint at Gold Coast United. It’s not just players, too. Sacked Central Coast coach Phil Moss took several months to secure his severance package from the Mariners. Branko Culina took even longer to get anything out of Newcastle. Adelaide had a terrible time extricating themselves from Dutchman Rini Coolen, but the most concerning now is the situation surrounding Mike Mulvey. Sacked just months after signing a three-year deal, the club have so far refused to pay him the money he is owed. It's a really bad look - not to mention grossly unfair. Nobody likes to part with money, but if there’s a contract, signed in good faith, it needs to be honoured. Speaking as somebody who has covered this game since the turn of the century, I find it greatly disheartening how money issues continue to crop up in our game. How naive we were to think it would end with the National Soccer League. The sad truth is that every time problems do arise, they distract the media from covering other, more positive aspects of the game. It’s a pretty well-worn narrative - which some outlets keenly pounce on - and tends to reinforce the sport’s status as a second class citizen. When Professional Footballers Australia struck their Collective Bargaining Agreement in 2012, it promised to ensure the players’ wages, in the salary cap, were covered in full. Theoretically, that should have ended the late payment of wages once and for all. But it didn’t. Disappointingly, some clubs still failed their obligations. Thankfully, most of the A-League owners do the right thing, and continue to spend and spend (often without much gratitude), despite the red ink that spills over most balance sheets. But the rebels need reigning in. A late payment or two may be understandable, but anything more is unacceptable. Having successfully re-packaged the Newcastle Jets and sold them to an ambitious new owner, hopefully the FFA won’t be scared to flex their muscles in the future and find the investors the game needs. It's the least the football community deserves. http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blog/2016/08/17/payment-problems-hurt-league-not-just-players-and-staff
-PB
Are we seriously asking how does this happen? Here's how it fucking happens. They are out of season, they are not playing games, they choose not to sell any memberships until last week (!!!), then have no cashflows to pay their staff out of. And Cobb, the MD, who thinks it is a top idea not to sell memberships, suddenly is the white knight paying the staff with his own money? Bull shit! What a scam. Sticks out like dog's balls what is happening at that club.
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paulbagzFC
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Group: Forum Members
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+xThread has pages of bigotry, profiling, abuse, ignorance and 2 out of 3 posts are pathetic trolls. It's a thread with a subject (yes it had one) shared by other threads on the same page. It's everything that 442 Forums has come to stand for! Any decent BBS would have locked it by page 3. Yeah no idea where the mods are. -PB
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AJF
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You have to wonder whether the current HAL Club business model is working with all the various teams experiencing financial difficulties recently. No-one will keep pumping money into a loss making business indefinitely so these sorts of situations will continue to reoccur until all the clubs become financially viable. With all of Roars success, the fact they cant pay bills before season start is a real concern. Interestingly the Queensland Lions from which the Roar was originally created are still running successfully in the QPL (club membership of over 23,000, with 210 gaming machines) and from what I understand, the financial issues facing the Roar started when they cut ties with Queensland Lions in 2008 and have been ongoing ever since. This makes you wonder whether the "stand alone franchise" model is sustainable long term and whether teams like Roar, Jets, and Mariners may be better off engaging/partnering with local clubs to increase community engagement and improve financial viability. PS This is not a troll about trying to bring back the NSL.
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Toughlove
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+xWhat a shitstain on the league this news is....AGAIN. Brisbane Roar is supposed to be one of the powerhouses of the league, 5 trophies, and evey year we see the same news about them. Players not paid. "Let's blame the owners.". No, let's not blame the owners. Let's blame the club and let's blame the city of Brisbane itself. It's about time this club became sustainable instead of having to rely on an owner like an unborn baby relies on his/her mother to be. A while back I posted my opinion on why this club is always in crisis, and I put it down to the hicksville mentality of Brisbane the city. And some of you thought I was trolling and had a crack at me. Well fuck you, what I said was on point. Brisbane just doesn't do socca. What do you have to say for yourselves now you fuckwitts? The city of Brisbane is bringing the whole league down. I can understand Newcastle being in this position, but Brisbane? A city of 2M plus people, with pretty much only the Broncos to compete with, with 5 trophies in its cabinet, and the Roar can't pay its players. Get fucken.Kick them out the league FFS. Most trophies and top 3 or 4 crowd average over the history of A-League. What a shame they aren't more successful. Fold the league.
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aussie scott21
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+xYou have to wonder whether the current HAL Club business model is working with all the various teams experiencing financial difficulties recently. No-one will keep pumping money into a loss making business indefinitely so these sorts of situations will continue to reoccur until all the clubs become financially viable. With all of Roars success, the fact they cant pay bills before season start is a real concern. Interestingly the Queensland Lions from which the Roar was originally created are still running successfully in the QPL (club membership of over 23,000, with 210 gaming machines) and from what I understand, the financial issues facing the Roar started when they cut ties with Queensland Lions in 2008 and have been ongoing ever since. This makes you wonder whether the "stand alone franchise" model is sustainable long term and whether teams like Roar, Jets, and Mariners may be better off engaging/partnering with local clubs to increase community engagement and improve financial viability. PS This is not a troll about trying to bring back the NSL. It seems like unless BR fans are willing to accept a MC style take over the club will continue to struggle if they dont downsize the venue they play at. The reason I wrote Aston Villa on the forum is their new owner wants to eventually buy a club in Australia, India and China under the Villa umbrella (or he has gone on record saying it anyway). Seems like a good fit to me. I dont think it is likely a new owner will come in and be willing to keep things as they are.
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And Everyone Blamed Clive
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+x+xThread has pages of bigotry, profiling, abuse, ignorance and 2 out of 3 posts are pathetic trolls. It's a thread with a subject (yes it had one) shared by other threads on the same page. It's everything that 442 Forums has come to stand for! Any decent BBS would have locked it by page 3. Yeah no idea where the mods are. -PB Bring back the one-stop Circus thread
Winner of Official 442 Comment of the day Award - 10th April 2017
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Gazzza
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+xWhat a shitstain on the league this news is....AGAIN. Brisbane Roar is supposed to be one of the powerhouses of the league, 5 trophies, and evey year we see the same news about them. Players not paid. "Let's blame the owners.". No, let's not blame the owners. Let's blame the club and let's blame the city of Brisbane itself. It's about time this club became sustainable instead of having to rely on an owner like an unborn baby relies on his/her mother to be. A while back I posted my opinion on why this club is always in crisis, and I put it down to the hicksville mentality of Brisbane the city. And some of you thought I was trolling and had a crack at me. Well fuck you, what I said was on point. Brisbane just doesn't do socca. What do you have to say for yourselves now you fuckwitts? The city of Brisbane is bringing the whole league down. I can understand Newcastle being in this position, but Brisbane? A city of 2M plus people, with pretty much only the Broncos to compete with, with 5 trophies in its cabinet, and the Roar can't pay its players. Get fucken.Kick them out the league FFS. Oh look its this dipshit again, no one gives a shit about your pathetic rants about Brisbane Roar.
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RedFunk
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+xWhat a shitstain on the league this news is....AGAIN. Brisbane Roar is supposed to be one of the powerhouses of the league, 5 trophies, and evey year we see the same news about them. Players not paid. "Let's blame the owners.". No, let's not blame the owners. Let's blame the club and let's blame the city of Brisbane itself. It's about time this club became sustainable instead of having to rely on an owner like an unborn baby relies on his/her mother to be. A while back I posted my opinion on why this club is always in crisis, and I put it down to the hicksville mentality of Brisbane the city. And some of you thought I was trolling and had a crack at me. Well fuck you, what I said was on point. Brisbane just doesn't do socca. What do you have to say for yourselves now you fuckwitts? The city of Brisbane is bringing the whole league down. I can understand Newcastle being in this position, but Brisbane? A city of 2M plus people, with pretty much only the Broncos to compete with, with 5 trophies in its cabinet, and the Roar can't pay its players. Get fucken.Kick them out the league FFS. Most trophies and top 3 or 4 crowd average over the history of A-League. What a shame they aren't more successful. Fold the league. He says Brisbane is not a soccer state but are in the top 4 for crowds averages in the A-League so that is good for a so called non soccer state. I think this guy is a few marbles short.
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paladisious
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+x+xThe fact this club has won more games than any other since the leagues inception despite being in a constant state of crisis for almost its whole existence speaks volume about the quality of football played by the other clubs. 😂😂😂😂 123 wins, leading Victory by 3. Victory would be ahead if you counted Cup and Asian matches though.
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bohemia
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Group: Forum Members
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+xYou have to wonder whether the current HAL Club business model is working with all the various teams experiencing financial difficulties recently. No-one will keep pumping money into a loss making business indefinitely so these sorts of situations will continue to reoccur until all the clubs become financially viable. With all of Roars success, the fact they cant pay bills before season start is a real concern. Interestingly the Queensland Lions from which the Roar was originally created are still running successfully in the QPL (club membership of over 23,000, with 210 gaming machines) and from what I understand, the financial issues facing the Roar started when they cut ties with Queensland Lions in 2008 and have been ongoing ever since. This makes you wonder whether the "stand alone franchise" model is sustainable long term and whether teams like Roar, Jets, and Mariners may be better off engaging/partnering with local clubs to increase community engagement and improve financial viability. PS This is not a troll about trying to bring back the NSL. No choice of model will fix the problem, it will just hide it differently. BR will not make money on 14k fans to 13 games in a 52k seat stadium, especially with the Queensland only additional expenses lumped on top. The environment is simply too tough to operate in in Brisbane. They need their own ground. Rather than spotting 2 million a year in bailouts it should be a loan repayment on improvements to something we own - Perry Park.
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+xThe fact this club has won more games than any other since the leagues inception despite being in a constant state of crisis for almost its whole existence speaks volume about the quality of football played by the other clubs. 😂😂😂😂 123 wins, leading Victory by 3. Victory would be ahead if you counted Cup and Asian matches though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Townsville_Football_CupBR did get 2 wins in the Townsville Cup.
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Mr B
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+xYou have to wonder whether the current HAL Club business model is working with all the various teams experiencing financial difficulties recently. No-one will keep pumping money into a loss making business indefinitely so these sorts of situations will continue to reoccur until all the clubs become financially viable. With all of Roars success, the fact they cant pay bills before season start is a real concern. Interestingly the Queensland Lions from which the Roar was originally created are still running successfully in the QPL (club membership of over 23,000, with 210 gaming machines) and from what I understand, the financial issues facing the Roar started when they cut ties with Queensland Lions in 2008 and have been ongoing ever since. This makes you wonder whether the "stand alone franchise" model is sustainable long term and whether teams like Roar, Jets, and Mariners may be better off engaging/partnering with local clubs to increase community engagement and improve financial viability. PS This is not a troll about trying to bring back the NSL. No choice of model will fix the problem, it will just hide it differently. BR will not make money on 14k fans to 13 games in a 52k seat stadium, especially with the Queensland only additional expenses lumped on top. The environment is simply too tough to operate in in Brisbane. They need their own ground. Rather than spotting 2 million a year in bailouts it should be a loan repayment on improvements to something we own - Perry Park. Yep, summed up well bohemia. We will be forever doomed if Roar continue to play out of Suncorp, something big really needs to happen for things to change in this state and that big thing could be losing the 3rd club in Qld from the A-League, Brisbane Roar, Stadiums Queensland is a joke.
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HortoMagiko
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+x+xWhat a shitstain on the league this news is....AGAIN. Brisbane Roar is supposed to be one of the powerhouses of the league, 5 trophies, and evey year we see the same news about them. Players not paid. "Let's blame the owners.". No, let's not blame the owners. Let's blame the club and let's blame the city of Brisbane itself. It's about time this club became sustainable instead of having to rely on an owner like an unborn baby relies on his/her mother to be. A while back I posted my opinion on why this club is always in crisis, and I put it down to the hicksville mentality of Brisbane the city. And some of you thought I was trolling and had a crack at me. Well fuck you, what I said was on point. Brisbane just doesn't do socca. What do you have to say for yourselves now you fuckwitts? The city of Brisbane is bringing the whole league down. I can understand Newcastle being in this position, but Brisbane? A city of 2M plus people, with pretty much only the Broncos to compete with, with 5 trophies in its cabinet, and the Roar can't pay its players. Get fucken.Kick them out the league FFS. Most trophies and top 3 or 4 crowd average over the history of A-League. What a shame they aren't more successful. Fold the league. Most trophies? Not at the elite level.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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Davo1985
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAll we need is to replace this EFFNIK Dutch club with Brisbane Strikers. :) They would be bankrupt before years end if Strikers got in. We need serious backing for clubs moving forward. Not corner store operations that most ex NSL clubs run on. fmd have you started to paraphrase paulc? No just speaking more sense than some on here that would be happy to have a tuck shop team in the top flight of our comp as if its the NPL.. Your elitest attitude is what is wrong with Australian football. At what point does it become about supporting Sydney FC first? Elitist attitude?? No it's about not being provincial which is the problem with so many supporters here. They are still stuck in the mentality of our game being a niche little sport that is supported by the minorities rather than the majority in this country. If we want to grow the game (at the expense of alienating a few old bitters who have never really embraced the a-league) by looking at bigger companies or consortiums to take charge of our clubs with deep pockets and real ability to grow the club then that's what we should strive for. By having clubs with minimal backing but old school sentiment such as some of the ex NSL clubs, will not get us far. What the FFA needs to do better is making sure serious people with serious funds are able to take control of our clubs. Clearly with Brisbane Roar and Gold Coast they got it wrong, however allocating licenses to clubs backed by the same type of financial strength as the CCM is just asking for trouble. Brisbane unlike CCM isn't a regional club and deserves a big backer to drive the club forward. The Brisbane Strikers would just be CCM V2.0. Im not sure why you think I want to turn the A-League into the NSL. I have said I want Strikers and SM in, but that is pretty much it. I have even said WW. You some how magically think we can pull 2-4 clubs out of thin air that will be as big as WSW or MV. Not going to happen. Franks model is working on you and you think any club coming in will automatically be as big as Sydney FC or should be. We have pretty much as many big clubs as we can squeeze out. Its time to think smaller. MV, MC SFC & WSW will always get the prime time matches so why do you care if a new club plays at a small venue? You support SFC, I dont see how this effects you. "oh my god, what will the people think if we have a team that plays at a 3000 seat stadium. I couldnt look them them in the eye" They will think sockah is a tin pot game, which may well match your vision but unsatisfactory to most. Spot on. Was just about to bold that last paragraph myself and infact it confirms my point even further about people here wanting to keep our game a little kids game that will never be taken seriously. 3000 would be an absolute disaster. Get out of the old school NSL style attendances as they were absolutely atrocious. Even now they aren't great but are miles infront of what they were prior to the A-league, hence why Franks model is working on me because it is absolutely MILES better than anything we've ever had, and all metrics will confirm that with regards to general popularity of the league. The argument about not bringing in new teams as big as WSW and Victory are a bit of a joke. I remember a plethora of threads prior to 2012 with people here whinging that introducing WSW would decimate Sydney fc and that we couldn;t handle 2 big clubs in a city. How wrong they were. I was and will always be in favour of having multiple clubs from within big metro cities, for reasons given many times previously. There will be room for regional teams but imo not until either a second league league is created or until we hit 14 or so teams in the a-league. It's not miles ahead. There were teams in the NSL getting very big crowds and they were breaking the million mark regularly. The game was talked down by the media, and then they had to bad years. That was Australia's racism shining through just like it shines through to this day. The HAL is dieing. That is the cool harsh reality. Just one calamity and that will be curtains. Just one team going bankrupt, and say bye bye to the TV Deal. We have always been on the brink. The two teams doing well in the NSL are now in the a-league. Perth Glory and Adelaide United of which United. I've looked at the stats for attendances for NSL games and many games were getting less than 3-4k in some instances less than 2k. Yes very successful.... Hahaha i laugh about your statement on A-league dieing. It must be hard for you as you've probably been on the same mantra since 2006 I imagine. See the reason why I know that there is no better solution is because all other clubs outside of the a-league are in no place to really get there shit in order with perhaps the exception of Sth Melbourne. No club has been able to really knock on the FFA's doors and convincingly make a case for being included. And you know why? Because all these clubs lack the fundamental ability to raise proper capital. They have no real backing. NONE! They run like a school tuck shop. They can barely scrape a few million together. So that's how I know there isn't a better solution at present despite a few clubs in the a-league having troubles of their own. I'm sure your tune will change though if in the event one of your beloved NSL teams makes it in the a-league right? Come back to me when you can prove that a dozen clubs outside of the A-league have $30m + in hard capital to invest in their club. Of course you will find bad statistics when you search for them. There are bad statistics in the HAL. I am talking about overall. For instance, Perth Glory had double the attendance back in the NSL than it does now in the HAL. So it has gone backwards ass many more will do soon. SMFC had good crowds as did a few other teams like Heart or whatever they were and some other new constructs. The NSL was achieving over 1 million through the gate, and the A League isn't doing much more than that either. Oh come on!! Where should I start. How about some facts hey. Back in 2002 the NSL had average attendance of 4,381 ( http://www.austadiums.com/news/news.php?id=8) which was only 15% lower than the previous season. Finding attendance records for the NSL is very difficult because it simply didn't really make news back then, however I managed to compile some stats regarding grand final attendances from 1984 onwards. Of the 23 matches played (3 years of which were home and away gf fixtures), in only 10 occasions out of the 23 did a grand final manage to rake in more than 15,000. And if we can safely assume that any grand final is usually 3 times or sometimes more than the average for in season games, you can safely say that average crowds for the NSL historically sit around the 4 - 5k mark. So no, the NSL was never ever anywhere near what the a-league is. Why not? Why do they need 20k every week? They have their own stadium. It's appropriately sized. They have a base set of supporters. They have history and trophies both domestically and internationally. They have produced socceroos. They add another team. Another set of viewers. Seems stupid to exclude on the basis of attendance alone. If you go back you will see that my comments towards Sth Melb are actually in support of a future aleague team. The reasons I gave were that they have really stepped up in the off field department. I still think they have some way to go with getting rid of that purely greek club image but overall they are doing well and should certainly be considered as the third or 4th melbourne team in the future. However the argument here is about whether Sth Melb was ever bigger than Brisbane which it isn't and never was. It was an argument that Aikme was trying to make. Well that is great that you have that attitude. You will find that there are many who will not support the entry of SMFC at all. Now, that is like Greece having a ban on Olympiakos or Panathinaikos. It's not right, and it is holding Football back. Bare in mind, I am not delusional to actually think the HAL is a runaway success. let's be honest here. It isn't a big success at all. There are some hugely successful teams in the HAL, like WSW and MVFC which is massive, but lets look beyond them and AUFC, Sudney United, Newcastle, and Maybe Brisbane (although they are on the brink). Then we have Phoenix, CCM, Perth Glory. Speaking of Perth Glory, did you know that during the NSL, they had double the average they enjoy now under the HAL. Why is that? Obviously there is something wrong there. As I have already mentioned Perth Glory didn't have double the average. Perth GLory were averaging 12k in the NSL with huge onfield success and Glory of today with no success are averaging around 9.5k so they definitely never averaged double (long term wise). And I think this year we'll see them average around the 12-13k mark. The club is growing over there now.
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Davo1985
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAll we need is to replace this EFFNIK Dutch club with Brisbane Strikers. :) They would be bankrupt before years end if Strikers got in. We need serious backing for clubs moving forward. Not corner store operations that most ex NSL clubs run on. fmd have you started to paraphrase paulc? No just speaking more sense than some on here that would be happy to have a tuck shop team in the top flight of our comp as if its the NPL.. Your elitest attitude is what is wrong with Australian football. At what point does it become about supporting Sydney FC first? Elitist attitude?? No it's about not being provincial which is the problem with so many supporters here. They are still stuck in the mentality of our game being a niche little sport that is supported by the minorities rather than the majority in this country. If we want to grow the game (at the expense of alienating a few old bitters who have never really embraced the a-league) by looking at bigger companies or consortiums to take charge of our clubs with deep pockets and real ability to grow the club then that's what we should strive for. By having clubs with minimal backing but old school sentiment such as some of the ex NSL clubs, will not get us far. What the FFA needs to do better is making sure serious people with serious funds are able to take control of our clubs. Clearly with Brisbane Roar and Gold Coast they got it wrong, however allocating licenses to clubs backed by the same type of financial strength as the CCM is just asking for trouble. Brisbane unlike CCM isn't a regional club and deserves a big backer to drive the club forward. The Brisbane Strikers would just be CCM V2.0. Im not sure why you think I want to turn the A-League into the NSL. I have said I want Strikers and SM in, but that is pretty much it. I have even said WW. You some how magically think we can pull 2-4 clubs out of thin air that will be as big as WSW or MV. Not going to happen. Franks model is working on you and you think any club coming in will automatically be as big as Sydney FC or should be. We have pretty much as many big clubs as we can squeeze out. Its time to think smaller. MV, MC SFC & WSW will always get the prime time matches so why do you care if a new club plays at a small venue? You support SFC, I dont see how this effects you. "oh my god, what will the people think if we have a team that plays at a 3000 seat stadium. I couldnt look them them in the eye" They will think sockah is a tin pot game, which may well match your vision but unsatisfactory to most. Spot on. Was just about to bold that last paragraph myself and infact it confirms my point even further about people here wanting to keep our game a little kids game that will never be taken seriously. 3000 would be an absolute disaster. Get out of the old school NSL style attendances as they were absolutely atrocious. Even now they aren't great but are miles infront of what they were prior to the A-league, hence why Franks model is working on me because it is absolutely MILES better than anything we've ever had, and all metrics will confirm that with regards to general popularity of the league. The argument about not bringing in new teams as big as WSW and Victory are a bit of a joke. I remember a plethora of threads prior to 2012 with people here whinging that introducing WSW would decimate Sydney fc and that we couldn;t handle 2 big clubs in a city. How wrong they were. I was and will always be in favour of having multiple clubs from within big metro cities, for reasons given many times previously. There will be room for regional teams but imo not until either a second league league is created or until we hit 14 or so teams in the a-league. It's not miles ahead. There were teams in the NSL getting very big crowds and they were breaking the million mark regularly. The game was talked down by the media, and then they had to bad years. That was Australia's racism shining through just like it shines through to this day. The HAL is dieing. That is the cool harsh reality. Just one calamity and that will be curtains. Just one team going bankrupt, and say bye bye to the TV Deal. We have always been on the brink. The two teams doing well in the NSL are now in the a-league. Perth Glory and Adelaide United of which United. I've looked at the stats for attendances for NSL games and many games were getting less than 3-4k in some instances less than 2k. Yes very successful.... Hahaha i laugh about your statement on A-league dieing. It must be hard for you as you've probably been on the same mantra since 2006 I imagine. See the reason why I know that there is no better solution is because all other clubs outside of the a-league are in no place to really get there shit in order with perhaps the exception of Sth Melbourne. No club has been able to really knock on the FFA's doors and convincingly make a case for being included. And you know why? Because all these clubs lack the fundamental ability to raise proper capital. They have no real backing. NONE! They run like a school tuck shop. They can barely scrape a few million together. So that's how I know there isn't a better solution at present despite a few clubs in the a-league having troubles of their own. I'm sure your tune will change though if in the event one of your beloved NSL teams makes it in the a-league right? Come back to me when you can prove that a dozen clubs outside of the A-league have $30m + in hard capital to invest in their club. Of course you will find bad statistics when you search for them. There are bad statistics in the HAL. I am talking about overall. For instance, Perth Glory had double the attendance back in the NSL than it does now in the HAL. So it has gone backwards ass many more will do soon. SMFC had good crowds as did a few other teams like Heart or whatever they were and some other new constructs. The NSL was achieving over 1 million through the gate, and the A League isn't doing much more than that either. Oh come on!! Where should I start. How about some facts hey. Back in 2002 the NSL had average attendance of 4,381 ( http://www.austadiums.com/news/news.php?id=8) which was only 15% lower than the previous season. Finding attendance records for the NSL is very difficult because it simply didn't really make news back then, however I managed to compile some stats regarding grand final attendances from 1984 onwards. Of the 23 matches played (3 years of which were home and away gf fixtures), in only 10 occasions out of the 23 did a grand final manage to rake in more than 15,000. And if we can safely assume that any grand final is usually 3 times or sometimes more than the average for in season games, you can safely say that average crowds for the NSL historically sit around the 4 - 5k mark. So no, the NSL was never ever anywhere near what the a-league is. Why not? Why do they need 20k every week? They have their own stadium. It's appropriately sized. They have a base set of supporters. They have history and trophies both domestically and internationally. They have produced socceroos. They add another team. Another set of viewers. Seems stupid to exclude on the basis of attendance alone. If you go back you will see that my comments towards Sth Melb are actually in support of a future aleague team. The reasons I gave were that they have really stepped up in the off field department. I still think they have some way to go with getting rid of that purely greek club image but overall they are doing well and should certainly be considered as the third or 4th melbourne team in the future. However the argument here is about whether Sth Melb was ever bigger than Brisbane which it isn't and never was. It was an argument that Aikme was trying to make. Sorry mate got confused amongst all the crap. Trophy wise it could be argued though.... Yeah for sure trophy wise. I'm not going to dispute on field success. End of the day Sth have been around for longer. In saying that, with all the drama Brisbane Roar have endured they have been extremely successful. 3 titles in 11 years is a great return in a salary capped league.
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crimsoncrusoe
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As much as we all would like cheap stadiums to push up profit for clubs,people need to understand this is not where most clubs are going to make big money in Australia.
Surely the aim should be to generate income from the othe sources which are not dependent on costs.....Media rights and sponsorship .
If twice as many watched football on tv ,the bottom line of each club would improve much more than if they doubled at the game.
At Suncorp Stadium for example,my u derstanding is that the costs jump as the crowd hits certain levels.So 15k might be the first break even level and then at 30k the costs jump again.
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aufc_ole
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+xAs much as we all would like cheap stadiums to push up profit for clubs,people need to understand this is not where most clubs are going to make big money in Australia.Surely the aim should be to generate income from the othe sources which are not dependent on costs.....Media rights and sponsorship .If twice as many watched football on tv ,the bottom line of each club would improve much more than if they doubled at the game.At Suncorp Stadium for example,my u derstanding is that the costs jump as the crowd hits certain levels.So 15k might be the first break even level and then at 30k the costs jump again. Of the top of my head the various ways clubs make money include: TV rights, sponsorship, matchday revenue, transfers
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AJF
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+xAs much as we all would like cheap stadiums to push up profit for clubs,people need to understand this is not where most clubs are going to make big money in Australia.Surely the aim should be to generate income from the othe sources which are not dependent on costs.....Media rights and sponsorship .If twice as many watched football on tv ,the bottom line of each club would improve much more than if they doubled at the game.At Suncorp Stadium for example,my u derstanding is that the costs jump as the crowd hits certain levels.So 15k might be the first break even level and then at 30k the costs jump again. Issue isn't only the profit, but 13K in a 52K stadium looks bad on TV and as a spectator the atmosphere is terrible. Its very hard to attract sponsors & media when it appears no one is interested.
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Davo1985
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+x+x+xWhat a shitstain on the league this news is....AGAIN. Brisbane Roar is supposed to be one of the powerhouses of the league, 5 trophies, and evey year we see the same news about them. Players not paid. "Let's blame the owners.". No, let's not blame the owners. Let's blame the club and let's blame the city of Brisbane itself. It's about time this club became sustainable instead of having to rely on an owner like an unborn baby relies on his/her mother to be. A while back I posted my opinion on why this club is always in crisis, and I put it down to the hicksville mentality of Brisbane the city. And some of you thought I was trolling and had a crack at me. Well fuck you, what I said was on point. Brisbane just doesn't do socca. What do you have to say for yourselves now you fuckwitts? The city of Brisbane is bringing the whole league down. I can understand Newcastle being in this position, but Brisbane? A city of 2M plus people, with pretty much only the Broncos to compete with, with 5 trophies in its cabinet, and the Roar can't pay its players. Get fucken.Kick them out the league FFS. Most trophies and top 3 or 4 crowd average over the history of A-League. What a shame they aren't more successful. Fold the league. Most trophies? Not at the elite level. What "elite" level would that be? Oh please don't say it.
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petszk
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+x+x+xThe fact this club has won more games than any other since the leagues inception despite being in a constant state of crisis for almost its whole existence speaks volume about the quality of football played by the other clubs. 😂😂😂😂 123 wins, leading Victory by 3. Victory would be ahead if you counted Cup and Asian matches though. http://www.aleaguestats.com/ALeagueStats_8AllTimeTable.htmlHead-to-head (only counting matches between A-League sides), Brisbane & Victory are tied at 138 wins each. Purely within the A-League (League & Finals matches only), Brisbane have 134 wins, Victory 130.
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maxxie
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I think we'd all love for BR to get out of the money pit that is Suncorp, but it really doesn't seem realistic without some major policy changes from FFA re stadium requirements AND upfront investment from the club. The simplest solution is that BR get their shit together and build the fan base to average 20k so they stop haemorrhaging money out of Suncorp.
Even with all the mismanagement and clusterfuckery of the last couple of years, if their deal at Suncorp was on par with stadium deals other a-league clubs have, things wouldn't be nearly as dire.
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