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Atlas
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+xPersonally I don't see any clubs with ethnic ties being introduced to the A-League until promotion and relegation comes along. There is still too much "fear" of what could be done to sponsors, the game, the league etc. Even when the FFA relinquish some control of the A-League I don't see it happening. I think promotion and relegation will be their only avenue in the near future (right or wrong, I just think that is reality). Consider this ... there is nothing stopping the non-ethnic based sides playing in the state NPLs at the moment, but how many our in the top flight in each state atm?? NSW has 5 out of 12 teams with no ethnic ties I am aware of (a few others might no longer have strong ethnic ties that I am not aware, e.g. Parramatta??) WA has 7/8 out of 14 teams with no ethnic ties I am aware of. The high number of clubs still in the top flights with ethic ties to me suggests that they are still doing something right at the grassroots level and providing adequate development pathways (key components of the FFA's NC). But their "fans" (or at least their reputation / perception) are probably what are holding these clubs back more so than anything the clubs actually do. Parramatta use to have thousands of Maltese followers now they follow Rugby League as the attendance showed at the Malta Vs Phillipines rugby match last weekend and Rugby League made them most welcome.
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sokorny
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Personally I don't see any clubs with ethnic ties being introduced to the A-League until promotion and relegation comes along. There is still too much "fear" of what could be done to sponsors, the game, the league etc. Even when the FFA relinquish some control of the A-League I don't see it happening.
I think promotion and relegation will be their only avenue in the near future (right or wrong, I just think that is reality).
Consider this ... there is nothing stopping the non-ethnic based sides playing in the state NPLs at the moment, but how many our in the top flight in each state atm??
NSW has 5 out of 12 teams with no ethnic ties I am aware of (a few others might no longer have strong ethnic ties that I am not aware, e.g. Parramatta??)
WA has 7/8 out of 14 teams with no ethnic ties I am aware of.
The high number of clubs still in the top flights with ethic ties to me suggests that they are still doing something right at the grassroots level and providing adequate development pathways (key components of the FFA's NC). But their "fans" (or at least their reputation / perception) are probably what are holding these clubs back more so than anything the clubs actually do.
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Benjamin
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+xRoberts must still be banned That's a bingo.
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And Everyone Blamed Clive
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Roberts must still be banned
Winner of Official 442 Comment of the day Award - 10th April 2017
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aussie scott21
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Here are 2 articles in relation to this one - Sydney FC v Sydney United shows cracks between old and new football | Joe Gorman | Football | The Guardian Football often turns on a single moment, and from that crucial decision, the game swings back to the visitors. Naumoff, a player who is still very much on the fringe of Sydney FC’s first team, pops up again to belt home a left foot piledriver from a difficult angle. Like his first effort, it is absolutely unstoppable. This time it’s The Cove’s turn to gloat, and they sing “this city is ours”, and “who are ya?” at the opposition. Two flares sail over the stadium fence and land not far from where the FC fans stand. Luckily nobody is hurt, but the synthetic grass gets a good singe. The Sydney Croatia fans sing “you can stick your fucken’ A-League up your arse”, before returning to the more familiar chants of their mother tongue. Sydney United A young Sydney United fan celebrates his team’s equaliser. Photograph: Mark Metcalfe/Getty Images There is a bit of argy bargy in the box as Sydney FC goalkeeper Vedran Janjetovic - a former Sydney Croatia player - literally picks up Ibrahim Haydar and moves him out of his way while Sydney FC line up to defend a free kick. The players rush in for the opportunity to push and shove each other before the referee breaks up the pantomime. As SUS bay for blood behind the goals an old bloke turns and yells something at me in Croatian, and I nod and smile, though I have no idea what he’s on about. Maybe he’s as impressed as I am that Vedran was able to lift ‘Ibi’ clean off his feet? He’s a big fella after all. The resulting free kick sails over the bar, and as Rudan urges his boys on from the sideline, Sydney FC midfielder Ali Abbas sets off on a mazy run, bamboozling several defenders before sliding the ball into the back of the net. It is the third goal off immense quality for the visitors and Sydney Croatia’s Cup dream is crushed. In Melbourne, another Croatian club, St Albans Dinamo, are beaten by Perth Glory. Palm Beach Sharks and Adelaide United go through to the quarter finals at the expense of South Springvale and Brisbane Roar. But all the focus is on the proceedings at Edensor Park, where the catharsis of competition brings the factions of ‘old soccer’ and ‘new football’ a little closer together. Sydney Croatia might be disappointed by the result, but with more than 8,000 people through the gates, it’s still a red-letter day for the club. Assistant coach Jerry Bilokapic poses for a photo with a gaggle of kids holding Croatian flags, the players thank their supporters and club hero Luka Glavas says goodbye to his legion of fans for the last time. At least half of the players return to the dressing room without their shirts, having thrown them into the crowd for the kids to savour. Just as Mark Rudan dreamed of playing for Sydney Croatia as a boy, so will a new generation of youngsters. The cycle continues, and for a club that has produced over 40 Socceroos, that’s something all Australians benefit from. https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/sep/24/sydney-fc-sydney-united-ffa-cupIs Heidelberg's big crowd a one-off or evidence to support A-League 2? Heidelberg United fans barrack for their team. Heidelberg United fans barrack for their team. Photo: Getty Images The FFA is not about to introduce a second division or promotion or relegation to the A-League any time soon. But the supporters of traditional clubs, champing at the bit to get the chance for a rebirth on the big stage, will point to the bumper crowd at Olympic Village for the FFA Cup quarter final between Heidelberg United and Melbourne City as further evidence that there is a strong appetite for football outside the A-League. Advertisement More than 11,000 people turned up to the old, rather run-down venue close to Northland shopping centre and the Olympic Village shops, once one of the most celebrated locations in Australian sport when it played host to the athletes of the 1956 Melbourne Olympics. It was one of the biggest Heidelberg crowds – at least at this venue – in history, so in one sense it cannot be regarded as typical and it was a special occasion. It featured a one-off – and last-ever – appearance by the former captain of the Greek national team, Kostas Katsouranis, and it was a game that celebrated the Bergers' chance to make a real splash on the national stage against an A-League club that is part of one of the richest football businesses in the world, the Manchester City-owned Melbourne City. Katsouranis' presence clearly swelled the numbers for this largely Greek-supported team, while anecdotal evidence suggested a fair few Victory fans turned out to barrack against City as well. Everyone expected the gulf between the full-time professionals of City and the part-timers of NPL Heidelberg to show up eventually, and it did. It was always likely to, especially as City's players were hard fit on the cusp of their season, while the hosts' campaign had ended more than a month ago. Leaving aside the quality gulf, what did the game say about the desirability of a second-tier league in Australia with promotion and relegation? Competition is the essence of all sport, but it is sadly lacking in the A-League, where there is no penalty for failure. All 9 Australian teams have been guaranteed a spot at the top table long into the future, with commercial imperatives dominating the game's thinking: the idea of a Perth club, for example, being relegated and not having a top-tier team in WA for sponsors to advertise nationally or the broadcasters not to have an Australia-wide footprint is unthinkable for the game's administrators. There are understandable fiscal reasons for the game's governing body thinking that way. But at some point, if it wants to underwrite the future development of the game – and most of the players come through the non-A-League system, even if it is during their junior phase – they have to provide some kind of incentive for these second-tier clubs to invest and continue to produce players and grow the game at the grassroots level. At present the FFA Cup does that as it gives them a chance to shine on Fox Sports and in front of a bigger crowd – at least to the quarter- and semi-final stage, and possibly to the final, although it is expecting an awful lot for Hume City to knock over Melbourne Victory in the semi-final later this month. There are arguments against, of course. Crowds during NPL games during the winter are hardly exciting and while the diehards make a lot of noise, few neutrals seem too concerned. But is it a chicken and egg situation? If fans of local clubs knew there was a chance that their investment in juniors could see them produce a team that could take them into the A-League, would they care more? Would more business get behind them to support them and make it a possibility? George Katsakis, the Heidelberg coach, is hardly a neutral, but like so many who have given a lifetime to the traditional clubs, he is hoping that one day the FFA will relent and find a sponsor or commercial set-up that allows them to create a national second division, which will give clubs such as his the chance to dream of a spot in the A-League. "Having been born and brought up at this place I haven't seen anything like it for a long time," he said after the game. "We may have been losers on the park but in football and community terms we made ourselves very proud. It [a game of this sort] gives you a foundation to build on. It's something every club would aspire to every time, and it's very important to try and continue to build momentum. "That match was a great indication of grassroots football and its history, and we have forgotten about its history. No doubt Kosta's appearance had something to do with [the huge crowd] but it took an NPL club to bring a marquee player and make the message that we did," said Katsakis, arguing that there is clearly scope for a second division. Not everyone would say that clubs such as Heidelberg (and South Melbourne, Melbourne Knights, Sydney United, Sydney Olympic and Marconi) are small clubs anyway, as they have often been painted in these days of A-League franchise teams. Certainly not Katsouranis, who led the Greek side in the 2014 World Cup at Brazil. His take was quite interesting, as he suggested that the facilities and support at Heidelberg were better than at many clubs in Greece. He announced his retirement after the match, and it's fitting perhaps he should have the last word. "I am very happy. I play in front of many Greek fans and I help a big club to grow up." http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/is-heidelbergs-big-crowd-a-oneoff-or-evidence-to-support-aleague-2-20150930-gjxvjh.htmlThese matches happened and the sky didn't fall down. Australia doesn't have the luxury of a spread out population over 50 cities. We need to follow the models that work, the AFL and NRL. Flood the big cities with multiple teams. Imo it could be a mix between new and old. It works on tv also. The only limit is the invisible barriers the FFA creates
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HortoMagiko
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+xKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKK -PB Effnik clubs from Kekistan have held football back in Australia.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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paulbagzFC
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KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKK -PB
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AJF
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paulc is the Pauline Hanson of the soccer world, when it comes to effnicks, he doesn't like it!!!
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HortoMagiko
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+x+xOh let me clarify Paulc, whilst the official attendance given by the FFV was 4,200, even though you did say 2,500, there was at least 1000-1500 let in (for free) and not counted as last ditch desperate measure by the FFV who grossly underestimate the reach and popularity of the match.They even opened up the entire stadium as the match progressed after initially only booking one stand.Now, not sure what you're getting at regarding the club's moniker of "Hellas", you must indeed be joking but let me state with absolute clarity as to leave you in no doubt that the South Melbourne moniker "Hellas", is indeed just that, a moniker for the football team South Melbourne FC.You only need to watch the highlights of the Grand Final to notice there isn't a Greek flag in sight and people of various cultural backgrounds (supporters, players, coaches, staff et all) are celebrating this historic 10th state title triumph for South Melbourne by chanting the club's spiritual moniker "Hellas". Why would South Melbourne abandon this for a chant of "come on you blues?" when this iconic moniker and trumpet chant (the trumpet player is actually Portuguese) is so wel associated with the club?I trust your joking with your "mono ethnic" comments as I'm confident such incorrect and direct racism would not be allowed on such a forum. To suggest the crowd is celebrating the South Melbourne FC grand final as a victory for "Greece" is one of most farcical things I've read for a long time. Also, not that it's a point of reference but I recently compared the boards of Melbourne Victory and South Melbourne and found the following which shows that South Melbourne FC now has greater board diversity than an A-League licenced franchise like Victory:Victory3x Italian Australians4x Anglo Australians*Including 1 female South Melbourne7x Greek Australians2x Italian Australians1x Cypriot Australian1x Anglo Australian*Including 2 femalesGood day sir and how sweet it was to see South Melbourne "Hellas" lift its 10th piece of state silverware one week ago! Hellas a moniker is the best I've heard yet lol I suppose the Greek names forming the board are a misprint, blue and white team colours a coincident, banned allowing the public watch you play Preston Macedonia is a misunderstanding etc, etc, lol What a joke.  You know what i actually agree with you about a couple of things. The colors, although i really dont think it matters, could incorporate red aswell like that ffa cup strip... from man u who used to wear green and gold to heart who now wear blue, things change. (Except brisbane who still wear the colors of holland) The hellas chant is a fair call tbf... why chant a foreign countries name... if it was outlawed i wouldnt have a problem with it personally... top flight football is more important than a chant. Again man u used to have a different name, its not about the roots, its about 2016 and beyind now....its about the club becoming a serious player. The smfc Preston rivalry, lets agree with u and say there's trouble on both sides. if theres trouble, remove the culprits, ban them. They never come back. Finished. The rest of us civilised peole enjoy the game. The board of directors thing is just racism though lol
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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SouthFan
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Correct! A moniker. You're on the right path now Paulc. In combination with the famous trumpet (played by a Portuguese Australian), the sound of "Hellas" is to SMFC what YNWA is to Liverpool. Now, last time I checked, South Melbourne's home strip features the same royal blue as EPL Champions Leicester, the Antonio Conte coached Chelsea and Ronald Koeman's men Everton FC. This is a globally common and accepted colour for a football club as depicted above with my reference to three famous EPL clubs. To suggest it's a continued and deliberate reference to Greece, is nothing short of ludicrous. Sure, no-one is denying that almost 60 years ago, the club was founded by an amalgamation which involved Greek migrants and this in turn ultimately influence the colours of the team, but 60 years from now they'll still be blue and not because the club is attempting to make a political statement of "we are Greece" but simply because these were the colours that emerged from the foundation of the club almost 60 years ago. In reference to the Greek surnames on the board, what are you suggesting? That a board composition which features 2 ethnic groups & 1 woman (Victory) compared to 4 ethnic groups & 2 women (SMFC) makes a more diverse group? Are you suggesting that if you have a Greek surname, irrespective of if you're born in Australia, potentially 3rd or 4th generation, speak English as your native tongue and are as "Australian as they come" that you shouldn't be on a football club board? Again, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as a mainstream forum like this no doubt would not put with such a clear cut undertone of racism if it were true. Now regarding you bringing up Preston in this thread. South Melbourne Women did play them this year and comprehensively beat them 11-0 at Lakeside Stadium. Did you attend by any chance to witness this footballing masterclass by the South Women? Is this perhaps what you're referring to? The highlights of this match are here: https://youtu.be/cR8zBImISD4
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aussie scott21
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+x+xOh let me clarify Paulc, whilst the official attendance given by the FFV was 4,200, even though you did say 2,500, there was at least 1000-1500 let in (for free) and not counted as last ditch desperate measure by the FFV who grossly underestimate the reach and popularity of the match.They even opened up the entire stadium as the match progressed after initially only booking one stand.Now, not sure what you're getting at regarding the club's moniker of "Hellas", you must indeed be joking but let me state with absolute clarity as to leave you in no doubt that the South Melbourne moniker "Hellas", is indeed just that, a moniker for the football team South Melbourne FC.You only need to watch the highlights of the Grand Final to notice there isn't a Greek flag in sight and people of various cultural backgrounds (supporters, players, coaches, staff et all) are celebrating this historic 10th state title triumph for South Melbourne by chanting the club's spiritual moniker "Hellas". Why would South Melbourne abandon this for a chant of "come on you blues?" when this iconic moniker and trumpet chant (the trumpet player is actually Portuguese) is so wel associated with the club?I trust your joking with your "mono ethnic" comments as I'm confident such incorrect and direct racism would not be allowed on such a forum. To suggest the crowd is celebrating the South Melbourne FC grand final as a victory for "Greece" is one of most farcical things I've read for a long time. Also, not that it's a point of reference but I recently compared the boards of Melbourne Victory and South Melbourne and found the following which shows that South Melbourne FC now has greater board diversity than an A-League licenced franchise like Victory:Victory3x Italian Australians4x Anglo Australians*Including 1 female South Melbourne7x Greek Australians2x Italian Australians1x Cypriot Australian1x Anglo Australian*Including 2 femalesGood day sir and how sweet it was to see South Melbourne "Hellas" lift its 10th piece of state silverware one week ago! Hellas a moniker is the best I've heard yet lol I suppose the Greek names forming the board are a misprint, blue and white team colours a coincident, banned allowing the public watch you play Preston Macedonia is a misunderstanding etc, etc, lol What a joke. If you dont cosider them Australian then you shouldnt consider yourself Australian.
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Bundoora B
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. yes...but how do you think it work in Europe? the A-League is very successful league in how fast and how little money owners lose Isn't amazing how people see things? Like the three blind men describing an elephant. http://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/football/2015/10/07/league-clubs-face-financial-strife/The decision to establish a new national competition in 2005 with each of the clubs under private ownership is the main reason why the A-League is the most financially unstable elite football tournament in the country.The near-collapse of Brisbane and Newcastle Jets in the past 12 months seems to have more to do with big financial problems of each club’s owners, rather than the stand-alone business performance of the franchises. The near-collapse of Brisbane and Newcastle Jets in the past 12 months seems to have more to do with big financial problems of each club’s owners, rather than the stand-alone business performance of the franchises. Report from 2013 Report from 2015 by John Stensholt The 10 A-League clubs are set to lose at least a combined $10 million for the 2014-15 season, which ended on the weekend ahead of the start of a three-week finals campaign.Three clubs, Melbourne Victory, Western Sydney Wanderers and Adelaide United are set to record profits, offsetting losses by the remaining seven clubs. Read more: http://www.afr.com/business/sport/aleague-losses-falling-though-tv-ratings-are-as-well-20150424-1ms93m#ixzz4KMjHVBdGhttp://www.afr.com/business/sport/aleague-losses-falling-though-tv-ratings-are-as-well-20150424-1ms93m#ixzz4KMjHVBdG The fact is Football is not exactly a profitable sport, in fact only the USA Sporting model make profits except for MLS. The problem we have is our game is Global not local. In the Australian Sporting Landscape AFL, NRL and ARU Club losses are the norm rather than the exception. so what do you want Arthur, you want to go back to community clubs like in NSL days? A_league clubs only losing $20 million a year, is fucking very good in the world of Football,,,but FFA is also keeping some of the money the A_league, to fund the development the game So your measure of success is how little money the franchises lose? But they were promised profits after four years? What we don't want is stagnation and we currently have that. A more open competition would be a great start and create more investment and more excitement in the game. It clear what should happen and that is a 2nd Division be established and interested parties be invited to tender for participation. A 5 year moratorium on promotion/relegation to the A-League allowing the clubs/franchises in the 2nd Division to establish the necessary infrastructure to close the gap between the 1st and 2nd Division. That after a period of time to allow clubs or franchises from the State/NPL competitions to seek promotion to the 2nd Division based on key criteria. Its really not that hard. This is an excellent proposal imo. I'd suggest a 10 team 2nd division. After 5 years the two top sides based on a range of criteria, (ie: infrastructure, potential fansbase, financial solvency etc) gain promotion to the A-League. We'll then have a 12 team 1st division. Meanwhile, NPL clubs who may be intersted can apply for the 2nd division to bring it back up to 10 teams. Repeat process until we have two 14, or 16 team divisions. why don't they just submit the plan to the A-League, and join now? You see when you make comments like this you make the case FOR promotion/relegation stronger. You have such a bee in your bonnet about the NSL and use it as your negative reference point that you cannot use logic to see that some "Football Culture specific" changes and additions would move the game forward in a positive way. The promotion/relegation movement is now positioned as a positive, progressive and enlightened ideology that is taking a life of it's own creating a pressure on the FFA Board and Executive that will make it inevitable. The Anti promotion/relegation brigade is sending out negative and conservative messages bringing up irrelevant issues in a changed landscape from 11 years, 20 years and 40 years ago. Offering exclusion and more of the same that even the franchisee owners are not happy with. We all accept that the FFA is the controlling body of the game here. Its up to the FFA in many ways to put expansion out to tender, but they haven't and they won't in the short term. The FFA has made it clear they have interest in creating a franchise in the Sutherland Shire to capitalise on the "Derby Concept". Todays article about the A-League franchises Chairmen refusing to sit at the FFA dinner for the FIFA officials should be ringing alarm bells to you, but you Conveniently appear to ignore these alarm bells. And hence I say to you keep up your stance and commentary as it is as it only makes the viewpoint I have more positive relative and progressive by the day. Thank you. Its just my opinion but We really need to start a new pro/rel thread for all those that are FOR it. Just so ideas are allowed to flourish amd evolve between those who are looking to explore all the possibilities, rather than diverting our energy into warding off trolls. Getting threads derailed by these infantile nsl strawman arguments are a waste of time. We can keep the old thread for people who love to debate the actual validity of pro/rel in the first place, while this new thread is based on acceptance that pro/rel is the way forward and discussions are based on succesful implemetation etc. Would require a mod onboard to weed out trolls, for it to work. do it. start the thread. the pro p/r thread.
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paulc
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+xOh let me clarify Paulc, whilst the official attendance given by the FFV was 4,200, even though you did say 2,500, there was at least 1000-1500 let in (for free) and not counted as last ditch desperate measure by the FFV who grossly underestimate the reach and popularity of the match.They even opened up the entire stadium as the match progressed after initially only booking one stand.Now, not sure what you're getting at regarding the club's moniker of "Hellas", you must indeed be joking but let me state with absolute clarity as to leave you in no doubt that the South Melbourne moniker "Hellas", is indeed just that, a moniker for the football team South Melbourne FC.You only need to watch the highlights of the Grand Final to notice there isn't a Greek flag in sight and people of various cultural backgrounds (supporters, players, coaches, staff et all) are celebrating this historic 10th state title triumph for South Melbourne by chanting the club's spiritual moniker "Hellas". Why would South Melbourne abandon this for a chant of "come on you blues?" when this iconic moniker and trumpet chant (the trumpet player is actually Portuguese) is so wel associated with the club?I trust your joking with your "mono ethnic" comments as I'm confident such incorrect and direct racism would not be allowed on such a forum. To suggest the crowd is celebrating the South Melbourne FC grand final as a victory for "Greece" is one of most farcical things I've read for a long time. Also, not that it's a point of reference but I recently compared the boards of Melbourne Victory and South Melbourne and found the following which shows that South Melbourne FC now has greater board diversity than an A-League licenced franchise like Victory:Victory3x Italian Australians4x Anglo Australians*Including 1 female South Melbourne7x Greek Australians2x Italian Australians1x Cypriot Australian1x Anglo Australian*Including 2 femalesGood day sir and how sweet it was to see South Melbourne "Hellas" lift its 10th piece of state silverware one week ago! Hellas a moniker is the best I've heard yet lol I suppose the Greek names forming the board are a misprint, blue and white team colours a coincident, banned allowing the public watch you play Preston Macedonia is a misunderstanding etc, etc, lol What a joke.
In a resort somewhere
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SouthFan
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Oh let me clarify Paulc, whilst the official attendance given by the FFV was 4,200, even though you did say 2,500, there was at least 1000-1500 let in (for free) and not counted as last ditch desperate measure by the FFV who grossly underestimate the reach and popularity of the match.
They even opened up the entire stadium as the match progressed after initially only booking one stand.
Now, not sure what you're getting at regarding the club's moniker of "Hellas", you must indeed be joking but let me state with absolute clarity as to leave you in no doubt that the South Melbourne moniker "Hellas", is indeed just that, a moniker for the football team South Melbourne FC.
You only need to watch the highlights of the Grand Final to notice there isn't a Greek flag in sight and people of various cultural backgrounds (supporters, players, coaches, staff et all) are celebrating this historic 10th state title triumph for South Melbourne by chanting the club's spiritual moniker "Hellas". Why would South Melbourne abandon this for a chant of "come on you blues?" when this iconic moniker and trumpet chant (the trumpet player is actually Portuguese) is so wel associated with the club?
I trust your joking with your "mono ethnic" comments as I'm confident such incorrect and direct racism would not be allowed on such a forum. To suggest the crowd is celebrating the South Melbourne FC grand final as a victory for "Greece" is one of most farcical things I've read for a long time.
Also, not that it's a point of reference but I recently compared the boards of Melbourne Victory and South Melbourne and found the following which shows that South Melbourne FC now has greater board diversity than an A-League licenced franchise like Victory:
Victory
3x Italian Australians
4x Anglo Australians
*Including 1 female
South Melbourne
7x Greek Australians
2x Italian Australians
1x Cypriot Australian
1x Anglo Australian
*Including 2 females
Good day sir and how sweet it was to see South Melbourne "Hellas" lift its 10th piece of state silverware one week ago!
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HortoMagiko
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+x+xCloser to 6,000! Thank you for the mention though.As for the term"Hellas" it's the moniker of the club, same as a term like "reds", "toffees" etc.Sure, it's related to the heritage of this near 60 year old historic club, rich in football tradition and trophies, as you would expect any moniker to be.For well over a decade now it is chanted equally by non-Greek & Greek Australian South Melbourne supporters, players, coaching staff etc and not as reference to the country of Greece, but to the team on the pitch! A case of if I don't like it I'll just invent it hey Hellas fan? Official attendances below: NPLVIC GF: South Melbourne v Oakleigh Cannons Attendance: 4,211 NPLNSW GF: Sydney United v Blacktown City Attendance: 5,263 NPLSA GF: Adelaide City v Campbelltown City Attendance: 3,400 Lol. Now show us wellingtons crowds budalo.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. yes...but how do you think it work in Europe? the A-League is very successful league in how fast and how little money owners lose Isn't amazing how people see things? Like the three blind men describing an elephant. http://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/football/2015/10/07/league-clubs-face-financial-strife/The decision to establish a new national competition in 2005 with each of the clubs under private ownership is the main reason why the A-League is the most financially unstable elite football tournament in the country.The near-collapse of Brisbane and Newcastle Jets in the past 12 months seems to have more to do with big financial problems of each club’s owners, rather than the stand-alone business performance of the franchises. The near-collapse of Brisbane and Newcastle Jets in the past 12 months seems to have more to do with big financial problems of each club’s owners, rather than the stand-alone business performance of the franchises. Report from 2013 Report from 2015 by John Stensholt The 10 A-League clubs are set to lose at least a combined $10 million for the 2014-15 season, which ended on the weekend ahead of the start of a three-week finals campaign.Three clubs, Melbourne Victory, Western Sydney Wanderers and Adelaide United are set to record profits, offsetting losses by the remaining seven clubs. Read more: http://www.afr.com/business/sport/aleague-losses-falling-though-tv-ratings-are-as-well-20150424-1ms93m#ixzz4KMjHVBdGhttp://www.afr.com/business/sport/aleague-losses-falling-though-tv-ratings-are-as-well-20150424-1ms93m#ixzz4KMjHVBdG The fact is Football is not exactly a profitable sport, in fact only the USA Sporting model make profits except for MLS. The problem we have is our game is Global not local. In the Australian Sporting Landscape AFL, NRL and ARU Club losses are the norm rather than the exception. so what do you want Arthur, you want to go back to community clubs like in NSL days? A_league clubs only losing $20 million a year, is fucking very good in the world of Football,,,but FFA is also keeping some of the money the A_league, to fund the development the game So your measure of success is how little money the franchises lose? But they were promised profits after four years? What we don't want is stagnation and we currently have that. A more open competition would be a great start and create more investment and more excitement in the game. It clear what should happen and that is a 2nd Division be established and interested parties be invited to tender for participation. A 5 year moratorium on promotion/relegation to the A-League allowing the clubs/franchises in the 2nd Division to establish the necessary infrastructure to close the gap between the 1st and 2nd Division. That after a period of time to allow clubs or franchises from the State/NPL competitions to seek promotion to the 2nd Division based on key criteria. Its really not that hard. This is an excellent proposal imo. I'd suggest a 10 team 2nd division. After 5 years the two top sides based on a range of criteria, (ie: infrastructure, potential fansbase, financial solvency etc) gain promotion to the A-League. We'll then have a 12 team 1st division. Meanwhile, NPL clubs who may be intersted can apply for the 2nd division to bring it back up to 10 teams. Repeat process until we have two 14, or 16 team divisions. why don't they just submit the plan to the A-League, and join now? You see when you make comments like this you make the case FOR promotion/relegation stronger. You have such a bee in your bonnet about the NSL and use it as your negative reference point that you cannot use logic to see that some "Football Culture specific" changes and additions would move the game forward in a positive way. The promotion/relegation movement is now positioned as a positive, progressive and enlightened ideology that is taking a life of it's own creating a pressure on the FFA Board and Executive that will make it inevitable. The Anti promotion/relegation brigade is sending out negative and conservative messages bringing up irrelevant issues in a changed landscape from 11 years, 20 years and 40 years ago. Offering exclusion and more of the same that even the franchisee owners are not happy with. We all accept that the FFA is the controlling body of the game here. Its up to the FFA in many ways to put expansion out to tender, but they haven't and they won't in the short term. The FFA has made it clear they have interest in creating a franchise in the Sutherland Shire to capitalise on the "Derby Concept". Todays article about the A-League franchises Chairmen refusing to sit at the FFA dinner for the FIFA officials should be ringing alarm bells to you, but you Conveniently appear to ignore these alarm bells. And hence I say to you keep up your stance and commentary as it is as it only makes the viewpoint I have more positive relative and progressive by the day. Thank you. Its just my opinion but We really need to start a new pro/rel thread for all those that are FOR it. Just so ideas are allowed to flourish amd evolve between those who are looking to explore all the possibilities, rather than diverting our energy into warding off trolls. Getting threads derailed by these infantile nsl strawman arguments are a waste of time. We can keep the old thread for people who love to debate the actual validity of pro/rel in the first place, while this new thread is based on acceptance that pro/rel is the way forward and discussions are based on succesful implemetation etc. Would require a mod onboard to weed out trolls, for it to work. LOL we have threads and posts on pro/rel and ex NSL clubs joining ad nauseum already. As soon as a thread is generated (and there are far and few between) as a counter argument you don't like it. Maybe the leftist mods will give your wish such is this place. No budalo. Its not a safe space. Its a think tank. Not a budalo tank.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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paulc
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Group: Forum Members
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+xCloser to 6,000! Thank you for the mention though.As for the term"Hellas" it's the moniker of the club, same as a term like "reds", "toffees" etc.Sure, it's related to the heritage of this near 60 year old historic club, rich in football tradition and trophies, as you would expect any moniker to be.For well over a decade now it is chanted equally by non-Greek & Greek Australian South Melbourne supporters, players, coaching staff etc and not as reference to the country of Greece, but to the team on the pitch! A case of if I don't like it I'll just invent it hey Hellas Fan? Official attendances below: NPLVIC GF: South Melbourne v Oakleigh Cannons Attendance: 4,211 NPLNSW GF: Sydney United v Blacktown City Attendance: 5,263 NPLSA GF: Adelaide City v Campbelltown City Attendance: 3,400 Please don't me laugh about what Hellas means to the Greeks or even the chants of what Croatia means to the Cros lol. All purely mono ethnically aligned as is the rest of the club's structure. Shows how they've improved (not).
In a resort somewhere
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. yes...but how do you think it work in Europe? the A-League is very successful league in how fast and how little money owners lose Isn't amazing how people see things? Like the three blind men describing an elephant. http://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/football/2015/10/07/league-clubs-face-financial-strife/The decision to establish a new national competition in 2005 with each of the clubs under private ownership is the main reason why the A-League is the most financially unstable elite football tournament in the country.The near-collapse of Brisbane and Newcastle Jets in the past 12 months seems to have more to do with big financial problems of each club’s owners, rather than the stand-alone business performance of the franchises. The near-collapse of Brisbane and Newcastle Jets in the past 12 months seems to have more to do with big financial problems of each club’s owners, rather than the stand-alone business performance of the franchises. Report from 2013 Report from 2015 by John Stensholt The 10 A-League clubs are set to lose at least a combined $10 million for the 2014-15 season, which ended on the weekend ahead of the start of a three-week finals campaign.Three clubs, Melbourne Victory, Western Sydney Wanderers and Adelaide United are set to record profits, offsetting losses by the remaining seven clubs. Read more: http://www.afr.com/business/sport/aleague-losses-falling-though-tv-ratings-are-as-well-20150424-1ms93m#ixzz4KMjHVBdGhttp://www.afr.com/business/sport/aleague-losses-falling-though-tv-ratings-are-as-well-20150424-1ms93m#ixzz4KMjHVBdG The fact is Football is not exactly a profitable sport, in fact only the USA Sporting model make profits except for MLS. The problem we have is our game is Global not local. In the Australian Sporting Landscape AFL, NRL and ARU Club losses are the norm rather than the exception. so what do you want Arthur, you want to go back to community clubs like in NSL days? A_league clubs only losing $20 million a year, is fucking very good in the world of Football,,,but FFA is also keeping some of the money the A_league, to fund the development the game So your measure of success is how little money the franchises lose? But they were promised profits after four years? What we don't want is stagnation and we currently have that. A more open competition would be a great start and create more investment and more excitement in the game. It clear what should happen and that is a 2nd Division be established and interested parties be invited to tender for participation. A 5 year moratorium on promotion/relegation to the A-League allowing the clubs/franchises in the 2nd Division to establish the necessary infrastructure to close the gap between the 1st and 2nd Division. That after a period of time to allow clubs or franchises from the State/NPL competitions to seek promotion to the 2nd Division based on key criteria. Its really not that hard. This is an excellent proposal imo. I'd suggest a 10 team 2nd division. After 5 years the two top sides based on a range of criteria, (ie: infrastructure, potential fansbase, financial solvency etc) gain promotion to the A-League. We'll then have a 12 team 1st division. Meanwhile, NPL clubs who may be intersted can apply for the 2nd division to bring it back up to 10 teams. Repeat process until we have two 14, or 16 team divisions. why don't they just submit the plan to the A-League, and join now? You see when you make comments like this you make the case FOR promotion/relegation stronger. You have such a bee in your bonnet about the NSL and use it as your negative reference point that you cannot use logic to see that some "Football Culture specific" changes and additions would move the game forward in a positive way. The promotion/relegation movement is now positioned as a positive, progressive and enlightened ideology that is taking a life of it's own creating a pressure on the FFA Board and Executive that will make it inevitable. The Anti promotion/relegation brigade is sending out negative and conservative messages bringing up irrelevant issues in a changed landscape from 11 years, 20 years and 40 years ago. Offering exclusion and more of the same that even the franchisee owners are not happy with. We all accept that the FFA is the controlling body of the game here. Its up to the FFA in many ways to put expansion out to tender, but they haven't and they won't in the short term. The FFA has made it clear they have interest in creating a franchise in the Sutherland Shire to capitalise on the "Derby Concept". Todays article about the A-League franchises Chairmen refusing to sit at the FFA dinner for the FIFA officials should be ringing alarm bells to you, but you Conveniently appear to ignore these alarm bells. And hence I say to you keep up your stance and commentary as it is as it only makes the viewpoint I have more positive relative and progressive by the day. Thank you. Its just my opinion but We really need to start a new pro/rel thread for all those that are FOR it. Just so ideas are allowed to flourish amd evolve between those who are looking to explore all the possibilities, rather than diverting our energy into warding off trolls. Getting threads derailed by these infantile nsl strawman arguments are a waste of time. We can keep the old thread for people who love to debate the actual validity of pro/rel in the first place, while this new thread is based on acceptance that pro/rel is the way forward and discussions are based on succesful implemetation etc. Would require a mod onboard to weed out trolls, for it to work. LOL we have threads and posts on pro/rel and ex NSL clubs joining ad nauseum already. As soon as a thread is generated (and there are far and few between) as a counter argument you don't like it. Maybe the leftist mods will give your wish such is this place. Da comrade
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paulc
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. yes...but how do you think it work in Europe? the A-League is very successful league in how fast and how little money owners lose Isn't amazing how people see things? Like the three blind men describing an elephant. http://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/football/2015/10/07/league-clubs-face-financial-strife/The decision to establish a new national competition in 2005 with each of the clubs under private ownership is the main reason why the A-League is the most financially unstable elite football tournament in the country.The near-collapse of Brisbane and Newcastle Jets in the past 12 months seems to have more to do with big financial problems of each club’s owners, rather than the stand-alone business performance of the franchises. The near-collapse of Brisbane and Newcastle Jets in the past 12 months seems to have more to do with big financial problems of each club’s owners, rather than the stand-alone business performance of the franchises. Report from 2013 Report from 2015 by John Stensholt The 10 A-League clubs are set to lose at least a combined $10 million for the 2014-15 season, which ended on the weekend ahead of the start of a three-week finals campaign.Three clubs, Melbourne Victory, Western Sydney Wanderers and Adelaide United are set to record profits, offsetting losses by the remaining seven clubs. Read more: http://www.afr.com/business/sport/aleague-losses-falling-though-tv-ratings-are-as-well-20150424-1ms93m#ixzz4KMjHVBdGhttp://www.afr.com/business/sport/aleague-losses-falling-though-tv-ratings-are-as-well-20150424-1ms93m#ixzz4KMjHVBdG The fact is Football is not exactly a profitable sport, in fact only the USA Sporting model make profits except for MLS. The problem we have is our game is Global not local. In the Australian Sporting Landscape AFL, NRL and ARU Club losses are the norm rather than the exception. so what do you want Arthur, you want to go back to community clubs like in NSL days? A_league clubs only losing $20 million a year, is fucking very good in the world of Football,,,but FFA is also keeping some of the money the A_league, to fund the development the game So your measure of success is how little money the franchises lose? But they were promised profits after four years? What we don't want is stagnation and we currently have that. A more open competition would be a great start and create more investment and more excitement in the game. It clear what should happen and that is a 2nd Division be established and interested parties be invited to tender for participation. A 5 year moratorium on promotion/relegation to the A-League allowing the clubs/franchises in the 2nd Division to establish the necessary infrastructure to close the gap between the 1st and 2nd Division. That after a period of time to allow clubs or franchises from the State/NPL competitions to seek promotion to the 2nd Division based on key criteria. Its really not that hard. This is an excellent proposal imo. I'd suggest a 10 team 2nd division. After 5 years the two top sides based on a range of criteria, (ie: infrastructure, potential fansbase, financial solvency etc) gain promotion to the A-League. We'll then have a 12 team 1st division. Meanwhile, NPL clubs who may be intersted can apply for the 2nd division to bring it back up to 10 teams. Repeat process until we have two 14, or 16 team divisions. why don't they just submit the plan to the A-League, and join now? You see when you make comments like this you make the case FOR promotion/relegation stronger. You have such a bee in your bonnet about the NSL and use it as your negative reference point that you cannot use logic to see that some "Football Culture specific" changes and additions would move the game forward in a positive way. The promotion/relegation movement is now positioned as a positive, progressive and enlightened ideology that is taking a life of it's own creating a pressure on the FFA Board and Executive that will make it inevitable. The Anti promotion/relegation brigade is sending out negative and conservative messages bringing up irrelevant issues in a changed landscape from 11 years, 20 years and 40 years ago. Offering exclusion and more of the same that even the franchisee owners are not happy with. We all accept that the FFA is the controlling body of the game here. Its up to the FFA in many ways to put expansion out to tender, but they haven't and they won't in the short term. The FFA has made it clear they have interest in creating a franchise in the Sutherland Shire to capitalise on the "Derby Concept". Todays article about the A-League franchises Chairmen refusing to sit at the FFA dinner for the FIFA officials should be ringing alarm bells to you, but you Conveniently appear to ignore these alarm bells. And hence I say to you keep up your stance and commentary as it is as it only makes the viewpoint I have more positive relative and progressive by the day. Thank you. Its just my opinion but We really need to start a new pro/rel thread for all those that are FOR it. Just so ideas are allowed to flourish amd evolve between those who are looking to explore all the possibilities, rather than diverting our energy into warding off trolls. Getting threads derailed by these infantile nsl strawman arguments are a waste of time. We can keep the old thread for people who love to debate the actual validity of pro/rel in the first place, while this new thread is based on acceptance that pro/rel is the way forward and discussions are based on succesful implemetation etc. Would require a mod onboard to weed out trolls, for it to work. LOL we have threads and posts on pro/rel and ex NSL clubs joining ad nauseum already. As soon as a thread is generated (and there are far and few between) as a counter argument you don't like it. Maybe the leftist mods will give your wish such is this place.
In a resort somewhere
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SouthFan
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 99,
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Closer to 6,000! Thank you for the mention though.
As for the term"Hellas" it's the moniker of the club, same as a term like "reds", "toffees" etc.
Sure, it's related to the heritage of this near 60 year old historic club, rich in football tradition and trophies, as you would expect any moniker to be.
For well over a decade now it is chanted equally by non-Greek & Greek Australian South Melbourne supporters, players, coaching staff etc and not as reference to the country of Greece, but to the team on the pitch!
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paulc
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Group: Forum Members
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We're almost there now.
In a resort somewhere
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
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+x+xA few years ago at work I was asked to show around a new employee, a young Englishman named Michael.We got to talking and it emerged that Michael was a recent arrival in Australia, and was here to play football semi-professionally. He’d come to Australia to study, but was also playing football for a Victorian Premier League club, who were paying him a small stipend for his work as a central defender.  Weird that so many young English people end up in Australia, right?I asked him to compare the quality of the play in England to Australia, and his responses were generally predictable: - England has a higher overall standard of play.
- Australia has surprisingly good goalkeepers though.
- English leagues are quicker.
- Australians are more aggressive
His next point was the one that, I admit, caught me off guard: - There is too much ethnicity wrapped up in Australian football.
Michael was black, so you might think this was his main issue. Thankfully, I can report that he’d experience no direct racism. The problem he saw was that certain clubs retained a national identity and played in the same leagues as teams with historically conflicting national identities. For Michael, his problem was that his club was considered a ‘Serbian’ club. Occasionally they played a ‘Croatian’ club, and Michael was exposed to genuine deep-seated bile and full-blown hatred from the opposing supporters, players, and officials.“I’m clearly not Serbian but I don’t think that matters,” he said with a shrug. “They still hate me.”In case you need a quick history lesson, Serbs and Croats aren’t big fans of one another. Other clubs also have strong divisions based on their ethnicity, principally clubs “aligned” with Greece, Italy, Macedonia, Russia, Turkey, Armenia, Israel, Lebanon, and an almost endless list of other Diasporas.Michael’s experience shows an ugly underbelly for Australian football: an underbelly where you don’tshare a beer and a chat with your opponents after a match because you have a genuine hatred for them, their families, their culture.  I may hate you… but dammit I respect you, Stone Cold.To their credit, Football Federation Australia have recognised this as an issue, and have a number of policies aimed at reducing or stamping out overt displays of ethnic pride that can potentially cause tensions to rise.One recent example saw Melbourne Knights prevented from taking to the park in the FFA Cup until they changed or removed their conveniently-named sponsor, “Melbourne Croatia Soccer Club” from the front of their team kit. They had blatantly tried to bypass the rules, and got caught out.  Subtle. Understated.In the end, they had to play with no front-of-shirt sponsor at all. It caused a little bit of a stir, and many fans for teams with ethnic ties will argue that their clubs history, culture, and pride are too important to lose. The argument that a club should be allowed to retain (frequently-divisive) ethnic ties basically boils down to these points: - These clubs often have done a lot for establishing football leagues in Australia and deserve respect for this.
- Ethnic ties are a reliable source of club culture, players, and supporters.
- It is racist to ban clubs from retaining their national pride.
I actually agree with those three points, but I still don’t think they cut the mustard.Have all the ethnic ties you want, retain your culture and your history… but don’t complain when the peak body doesn’t want you in the top flight because of the inherent and unacceptable risks your ethnic ties carry.The FFA has a responsibility to protect and advance the GAME. This is more important than your club being allowed to chant hatred.I believe this is more important than ethnic ties, and I see efforts to control overt displays of ethnic pride in high-profile leagues as being in the best interests of the game in this country.Football is the world’s biggest sport and it competes in an extremely cluttered sporting landscape in Australia. Fighting for media attention, junior participation, and community respect are all vital elements of advancing the game.I’m not a naysayer for Australian football. I don’t believe the media bulldust about rampant hooliganism (which simply isn’t backed by stats) or the pro-AFL narrative that “soccer is for sheilas, wogs and poofters.”I believe that a tremendous FFA Cup Competition – with hundreds of matches played at local grounds across the nation – can be an exceptional advertisement for the game both with the media and with the community.I also believe that one car-park fight between supporters of a (let’s say, totally hypothetically) ‘Turkish’ club and an ‘Armenian’ club would completely and irrevocably undo any and all goodwill for an entire tournament.  2007 Australian Open, but no-one was talking about tennis.When Bobby Despotovski set off a firestorm of racial violence in the old NSL for flashing a Serb “salute” it was possibly the darkest day in Australian football history. It was dirty laundry being shown to the entire country. It was ugly, very public, violent, and a shocking indictment on the rationality of each clubs’ supporters.  Yep. This seems like a good reason to riot.So now we have the A-League. The FFA have done a good job of, wherever possible, discouraging ethnic ties and ensuring they do not dominate any individual A-League club.Clubs with strong ethnic ties can play in Premier Leagues across the country, compete in the FFA Cup (and already we’ve seen them defeat some A-League clubs) and argue till the proverbial cows come home that they belong in the top flight.But (SOAPBOX ALERT) the FFA has a responsibility to the game first and foremost, and I believe they’re making the right decisions on ethnic ties. Clubs can retain their history and celebrate their culture if they like – but they can’t do it in the most publicly visible league in the country.Instead, anyone can walk into an A-League merchandise store and purchase any scarf they want without first having to check their birth certificate to make sure it’s safe. I can watch Melbourne City thump the Victory scum with a mate wearing the wrong colours, and we’ll go grab a beer after the game. Fans sit in the stands without fencing between rival factions. Supporters are loud and passionate, but they don’t beat each other up because of a 1000-year-old dispute.Yes, ethnic ties brought football a long way in Australia. However, it quickly reached a point where they held the game back. As the game got bigger, the tensions and aggression between clubs were amplified and broadcast more widely to the non-football community. This is not good.The peak body, rightly, has looked to sidestep ethnic ties and I believe the game will benefit. The next generation of Aussie kids (And I say they’re ‘Aussie’ regardless of their ethnic background) should be able to go and watch the top flight and support any team they want. This is good.So for all the fans of ethnic clubs out there, my ultimate message is this: retain your pride, your culture, your history… but admit and acknowledge that it reached a point where the costs outweighed the benefits for the sport. https://mikeorthedon.com/2014/10/03/ethnic-ties-have-held-football-back-in-australia/ Great article from a neutral perspective this. Hopefully it's not lost in the diversionary posts that followed its posting. vašite majki pička
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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paulc
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+xA few years ago at work I was asked to show around a new employee, a young Englishman named Michael.We got to talking and it emerged that Michael was a recent arrival in Australia, and was here to play football semi-professionally. He’d come to Australia to study, but was also playing football for a Victorian Premier League club, who were paying him a small stipend for his work as a central defender. Weird that so many young English people end up in Australia, right?I asked him to compare the quality of the play in England to Australia, and his responses were generally predictable: - England has a higher overall standard of play.
- Australia has surprisingly good goalkeepers though.
- English leagues are quicker.
- Australians are more aggressive
His next point was the one that, I admit, caught me off guard: - There is too much ethnicity wrapped up in Australian football.
Michael was black, so you might think this was his main issue. Thankfully, I can report that he’d experience no direct racism. The problem he saw was that certain clubs retained a national identity and played in the same leagues as teams with historically conflicting national identities. For Michael, his problem was that his club was considered a ‘Serbian’ club. Occasionally they played a ‘Croatian’ club, and Michael was exposed to genuine deep-seated bile and full-blown hatred from the opposing supporters, players, and officials.“I’m clearly not Serbian but I don’t think that matters,” he said with a shrug. “They still hate me.”In case you need a quick history lesson, Serbs and Croats aren’t big fans of one another. Other clubs also have strong divisions based on their ethnicity, principally clubs “aligned” with Greece, Italy, Macedonia, Russia, Turkey, Armenia, Israel, Lebanon, and an almost endless list of other Diasporas.Michael’s experience shows an ugly underbelly for Australian football: an underbelly where you don’tshare a beer and a chat with your opponents after a match because you have a genuine hatred for them, their families, their culture. I may hate you… but dammit I respect you, Stone Cold.To their credit, Football Federation Australia have recognised this as an issue, and have a number of policies aimed at reducing or stamping out overt displays of ethnic pride that can potentially cause tensions to rise.One recent example saw Melbourne Knights prevented from taking to the park in the FFA Cup until they changed or removed their conveniently-named sponsor, “Melbourne Croatia Soccer Club” from the front of their team kit. They had blatantly tried to bypass the rules, and got caught out. Subtle. Understated.In the end, they had to play with no front-of-shirt sponsor at all. It caused a little bit of a stir, and many fans for teams with ethnic ties will argue that their clubs history, culture, and pride are too important to lose. The argument that a club should be allowed to retain (frequently-divisive) ethnic ties basically boils down to these points: - These clubs often have done a lot for establishing football leagues in Australia and deserve respect for this.
- Ethnic ties are a reliable source of club culture, players, and supporters.
- It is racist to ban clubs from retaining their national pride.
I actually agree with those three points, but I still don’t think they cut the mustard.Have all the ethnic ties you want, retain your culture and your history… but don’t complain when the peak body doesn’t want you in the top flight because of the inherent and unacceptable risks your ethnic ties carry.The FFA has a responsibility to protect and advance the GAME.This is more important than your club being allowed to chant hatred.I believe this is more important than ethnic ties, and I see efforts to control overt displays of ethnic pride in high-profile leagues as being in the best interests of the game in this country.Football is the world’s biggest sport and it competes in an extremely cluttered sporting landscape in Australia. Fighting for media attention, junior participation, and community respect are all vital elements of advancing the game.I’m not a naysayer for Australian football. I don’t believe the media bulldust about rampant hooliganism (which simply isn’t backed by stats) or the pro-AFL narrative that “soccer is for sheilas, wogs and poofters.”I believe that a tremendous FFA Cup Competition – with hundreds of matches played at local grounds across the nation – can be an exceptional advertisement for the game both with the media and with the community.I also believe that one car-park fight between supporters of a (let’s say, totally hypothetically) ‘Turkish’ club and an ‘Armenian’ club would completely and irrevocably undo any and all goodwill for an entire tournament. 2007 Australian Open, but no-one was talking about tennis.When Bobby Despotovski set off a firestorm of racial violence in the old NSL for flashing a Serb “salute” it was possibly the darkest day in Australian football history. It was dirty laundry being shown to the entire country. It was ugly, very public, violent, and a shocking indictment on the rationality of each clubs’ supporters. Yep. This seems like a good reason to riot.So now we have the A-League. The FFA have done a good job of, wherever possible, discouraging ethnic ties and ensuring they do not dominate any individual A-League club.Clubs with strong ethnic ties can play in Premier Leagues across the country, compete in the FFA Cup (and already we’ve seen them defeat some A-League clubs) and argue till the proverbial cows come home that they belong in the top flight.But (SOAPBOX ALERT) the FFA has a responsibility to the game first and foremost, and I believe they’re making the right decisions on ethnic ties. Clubs can retain their history and celebrate their culture if they like – but they can’t do it in the most publicly visible league in the country.Instead, anyone can walk into an A-League merchandise store and purchase any scarf they want without first having to check their birth certificate to make sure it’s safe. I can watch Melbourne City thump the Victory scum with a mate wearing the wrong colours, and we’ll go grab a beer after the game. Fans sit in the stands without fencing between rival factions. Supporters are loud and passionate, but they don’t beat each other up because of a 1000-year-old dispute.Yes, ethnic ties brought football a long way in Australia. However, it quickly reached a point where they held the game back. As the game got bigger, the tensions and aggression between clubs were amplified and broadcast more widely to the non-football community. This is not good.The peak body, rightly, has looked to sidestep ethnic ties and I believe the game will benefit. The next generation of Aussie kids (And I say they’re ‘Aussie’ regardless of their ethnic background) should be able to go and watch the top flight and support any team they want. This is good.So for all the fans of ethnic clubs out there, my ultimate message is this: retain your pride, your culture, your history… but admit and acknowledge that it reached a point where the costs outweighed the benefits for the sport. https://mikeorthedon.com/2014/10/03/ethnic-ties-have-held-football-back-in-australia/ Great article from a neutral perspective this. Hopefully it's not lost in the diversionary posts that followed its posting.
In a resort somewhere
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HortoMagiko
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+xWatched a glimpse of the SM Hellas vs Oakleigh Cannons NPL final I think it was and there was a great crowd of at least 2,500. However couldn't help hearing the chants of Hellas throughout. I though some here say SMH had some connection with Australia but this may have been just wishful thinking. Of course you did pauly. Youre obsessed. Did you see the greek girl/guy that broke your heart there?
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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paulc
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Such a drama queen. drama queen. is when there 50,000 watching women big bash at MCG, and 3000 watching SMFC play Yeah right, the 4,500 that watched City v Mariners last season is much more impressive. that still 50% higher, and it does't help with the idea, that A-League can not fail just like NBL and NSL before them Hate to break it to you but HAL isnt doing that great, particularly when you consider how much extra money they have had to spend compared to the NSL. Lowest attendance records below for HAL are pretty embarrassing for majority of clubs
| Club | Lowest Attendance | | North Queensland Fury | 1,003 | | Gold Coast United | 1,141 | | New Zealand Knights | 1,632 | | Adelaide United | 2,363 | | Melbourne City | 2,754 | | Wellington Phoenix | 3,060 | | Newcastle Jets | 3,114 | | Brisbane Roar | 3,522 | | Sydney FC | 4,012 | | Perth Glory | 4,433 | | Central Coast Mariners | 4,508 | | Melbourne Victory | 5,268 | | Western Sydney Wanderers | 6,755 | Some of those were not at their home stadiums. | Club | Lowest Attendance | | North Queensland Fury | 1,003 - | | Gold Coast United | 1,141 - | | New Zealand Knights | 1,632 | | Adelaide United | 2,363 - Carrington Park, Bathurst, NSW | | Melbourne City | 2,754 | | Wellington Phoenix | 3,060 | | Newcastle Jets | 3,114 - Port Macquarie Regional Stadium | | Brisbane Roar | 3,522 - Skilled Park, Robina, QLD | | Sydney FC | 4,012 | | Perth Glory | 4,433 | | Central Coast Mariners | 4,508 | | Melbourne Victory | 5,268 - Aurora Stadium, Launceston, TAS | | Western Sydney Wanderers | 6,755 |
Fury attendance was also like two days after a cyclone hit the region (the surrounding highways around Townsville were still cut due to flooding ffs). -PB LOL some of those attendances were preseason warm up games, FFA cup I think they call it. The NSL had their lowest in their hundreds, and then in games during the season proper.
In a resort somewhere
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paulc
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Watched a glimpse of the SM Hellas vs Oakleigh Cannons NPL final I think it was and there was a great crowd of at least 2,500. However couldn't help hearing the chants of Hellas throughout. I though some here say SMH had some connection with Australia but this may have been just wishful thinking.
In a resort somewhere
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aufc_ole
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. yes...but how do you think it work in Europe? the A-League is very successful league in how fast and how little money owners lose Isn't amazing how people see things? Like the three blind men describing an elephant. http://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/football/2015/10/07/league-clubs-face-financial-strife/The decision to establish a new national competition in 2005 with each of the clubs under private ownership is the main reason why the A-League is the most financially unstable elite football tournament in the country.The near-collapse of Brisbane and Newcastle Jets in the past 12 months seems to have more to do with big financial problems of each club’s owners, rather than the stand-alone business performance of the franchises. The near-collapse of Brisbane and Newcastle Jets in the past 12 months seems to have more to do with big financial problems of each club’s owners, rather than the stand-alone business performance of the franchises. Report from 2013 Report from 2015 by John Stensholt The 10 A-League clubs are set to lose at least a combined $10 million for the 2014-15 season, which ended on the weekend ahead of the start of a three-week finals campaign.Three clubs, Melbourne Victory, Western Sydney Wanderers and Adelaide United are set to record profits, offsetting losses by the remaining seven clubs. Read more: http://www.afr.com/business/sport/aleague-losses-falling-though-tv-ratings-are-as-well-20150424-1ms93m#ixzz4KMjHVBdGhttp://www.afr.com/business/sport/aleague-losses-falling-though-tv-ratings-are-as-well-20150424-1ms93m#ixzz4KMjHVBdG The fact is Football is not exactly a profitable sport, in fact only the USA Sporting model make profits except for MLS. The problem we have is our game is Global not local. In the Australian Sporting Landscape AFL, NRL and ARU Club losses are the norm rather than the exception. so what do you want Arthur, you want to go back to community clubs like in NSL days? A_league clubs only losing $20 million a year, is fucking very good in the world of Football,,,but FFA is also keeping some of the money the A_league, to fund the development the game So your measure of success is how little money the franchises lose? But they were promised profits after four years? What we don't want is stagnation and we currently have that. A more open competition would be a great start and create more investment and more excitement in the game. It clear what should happen and that is a 2nd Division be established and interested parties be invited to tender for participation. A 5 year moratorium on promotion/relegation to the A-League allowing the clubs/franchises in the 2nd Division to establish the necessary infrastructure to close the gap between the 1st and 2nd Division. That after a period of time to allow clubs or franchises from the State/NPL competitions to seek promotion to the 2nd Division based on key criteria. Its really not that hard. no, what we don't want, is to be dead...stagnation is better then dead there is a 2nd div, it called the NPL if clubs want to play in the A-League, they should submit a plan to the A-League Once again So for you there's only 2 options. A-League and FFA or NSL and Soccer Australia.
You obviously aren't a thinking man.
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. yes...but how do you think it work in Europe? the A-League is very successful league in how fast and how little money owners lose Isn't amazing how people see things? Like the three blind men describing an elephant. http://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/football/2015/10/07/league-clubs-face-financial-strife/The decision to establish a new national competition in 2005 with each of the clubs under private ownership is the main reason why the A-League is the most financially unstable elite football tournament in the country.The near-collapse of Brisbane and Newcastle Jets in the past 12 months seems to have more to do with big financial problems of each club’s owners, rather than the stand-alone business performance of the franchises. The near-collapse of Brisbane and Newcastle Jets in the past 12 months seems to have more to do with big financial problems of each club’s owners, rather than the stand-alone business performance of the franchises. Report from 2013 Report from 2015 by John Stensholt The 10 A-League clubs are set to lose at least a combined $10 million for the 2014-15 season, which ended on the weekend ahead of the start of a three-week finals campaign.Three clubs, Melbourne Victory, Western Sydney Wanderers and Adelaide United are set to record profits, offsetting losses by the remaining seven clubs. Read more: http://www.afr.com/business/sport/aleague-losses-falling-though-tv-ratings-are-as-well-20150424-1ms93m#ixzz4KMjHVBdGhttp://www.afr.com/business/sport/aleague-losses-falling-though-tv-ratings-are-as-well-20150424-1ms93m#ixzz4KMjHVBdG The fact is Football is not exactly a profitable sport, in fact only the USA Sporting model make profits except for MLS. The problem we have is our game is Global not local. In the Australian Sporting Landscape AFL, NRL and ARU Club losses are the norm rather than the exception. so what do you want Arthur, you want to go back to community clubs like in NSL days? A_league clubs only losing $20 million a year, is fucking very good in the world of Football,,,but FFA is also keeping some of the money the A_league, to fund the development the game So your measure of success is how little money the franchises lose? But they were promised profits after four years? What we don't want is stagnation and we currently have that. A more open competition would be a great start and create more investment and more excitement in the game. It clear what should happen and that is a 2nd Division be established and interested parties be invited to tender for participation. A 5 year moratorium on promotion/relegation to the A-League allowing the clubs/franchises in the 2nd Division to establish the necessary infrastructure to close the gap between the 1st and 2nd Division. That after a period of time to allow clubs or franchises from the State/NPL competitions to seek promotion to the 2nd Division based on key criteria. Its really not that hard. This is an excellent proposal imo. I'd suggest a 10 team 2nd division. After 5 years the two top sides based on a range of criteria, (ie: infrastructure, potential fansbase, financial solvency etc) gain promotion to the A-League. We'll then have a 12 team 1st division. Meanwhile, NPL clubs who may be intersted can apply for the 2nd division to bring it back up to 10 teams. Repeat process until we have two 14, or 16 team divisions. why don't they just submit the plan to the A-League, and join now? You see when you make comments like this you make the case FOR promotion/relegation stronger. You have such a bee in your bonnet about the NSL and use it as your negative reference point that you cannot use logic to see that some "Football Culture specific" changes and additions would move the game forward in a positive way. The promotion/relegation movement is now positioned as a positive, progressive and enlightened ideology that is taking a life of it's own creating a pressure on the FFA Board and Executive that will make it inevitable. The Anti promotion/relegation brigade is sending out negative and conservative messages bringing up irrelevant issues in a changed landscape from 11 years, 20 years and 40 years ago. Offering exclusion and more of the same that even the franchisee owners are not happy with. We all accept that the FFA is the controlling body of the game here. Its up to the FFA in many ways to put expansion out to tender, but they haven't and they won't in the short term. The FFA has made it clear they have interest in creating a franchise in the Sutherland Shire to capitalise on the "Derby Concept". Todays article about the A-League franchises Chairmen refusing to sit at the FFA dinner for the FIFA officials should be ringing alarm bells to you, but you Conveniently appear to ignore these alarm bells. And hence I say to you keep up your stance and commentary as it is as it only makes the viewpoint I have more positive relative and progressive by the day. Thank you. The promotion/relegation movement is now positioned as a positive, progressive and enlightened ideology that is taking a life of it's own creating a pressure on the FFA Board and Executive that will make it inevitable.
that what all the communism said in 1960-70s. again, my words on 442 don't have the power to change what will happen.....what will happen has the pagers already written yes, the alarm bells ring, because the A-League can be dead very fast...A you live, B you die, Living is good , select A Thank you for continuing to make my point. i'm happy to make your point, that you sound like all communism (living in the West ) in 1960-70s, Looool So you like our commie egalitarian league or not?
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 30K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. yes...but how do you think it work in Europe? the A-League is very successful league in how fast and how little money owners lose Isn't amazing how people see things? Like the three blind men describing an elephant. http://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/football/2015/10/07/league-clubs-face-financial-strife/The decision to establish a new national competition in 2005 with each of the clubs under private ownership is the main reason why the A-League is the most financially unstable elite football tournament in the country.The near-collapse of Brisbane and Newcastle Jets in the past 12 months seems to have more to do with big financial problems of each club’s owners, rather than the stand-alone business performance of the franchises. The near-collapse of Brisbane and Newcastle Jets in the past 12 months seems to have more to do with big financial problems of each club’s owners, rather than the stand-alone business performance of the franchises. Report from 2013 Report from 2015 by John Stensholt The 10 A-League clubs are set to lose at least a combined $10 million for the 2014-15 season, which ended on the weekend ahead of the start of a three-week finals campaign.Three clubs, Melbourne Victory, Western Sydney Wanderers and Adelaide United are set to record profits, offsetting losses by the remaining seven clubs. Read more: http://www.afr.com/business/sport/aleague-losses-falling-though-tv-ratings-are-as-well-20150424-1ms93m#ixzz4KMjHVBdGhttp://www.afr.com/business/sport/aleague-losses-falling-though-tv-ratings-are-as-well-20150424-1ms93m#ixzz4KMjHVBdG The fact is Football is not exactly a profitable sport, in fact only the USA Sporting model make profits except for MLS. The problem we have is our game is Global not local. In the Australian Sporting Landscape AFL, NRL and ARU Club losses are the norm rather than the exception. so what do you want Arthur, you want to go back to community clubs like in NSL days? A_league clubs only losing $20 million a year, is fucking very good in the world of Football,,,but FFA is also keeping some of the money the A_league, to fund the development the game So your measure of success is how little money the franchises lose? But they were promised profits after four years? What we don't want is stagnation and we currently have that. A more open competition would be a great start and create more investment and more excitement in the game. It clear what should happen and that is a 2nd Division be established and interested parties be invited to tender for participation. A 5 year moratorium on promotion/relegation to the A-League allowing the clubs/franchises in the 2nd Division to establish the necessary infrastructure to close the gap between the 1st and 2nd Division. That after a period of time to allow clubs or franchises from the State/NPL competitions to seek promotion to the 2nd Division based on key criteria. Its really not that hard. This is an excellent proposal imo. I'd suggest a 10 team 2nd division. After 5 years the two top sides based on a range of criteria, (ie: infrastructure, potential fansbase, financial solvency etc) gain promotion to the A-League. We'll then have a 12 team 1st division. Meanwhile, NPL clubs who may be intersted can apply for the 2nd division to bring it back up to 10 teams. Repeat process until we have two 14, or 16 team divisions. why don't they just submit the plan to the A-League, and join now? You see when you make comments like this you make the case FOR promotion/relegation stronger. You have such a bee in your bonnet about the NSL and use it as your negative reference point that you cannot use logic to see that some "Football Culture specific" changes and additions would move the game forward in a positive way. The promotion/relegation movement is now positioned as a positive, progressive and enlightened ideology that is taking a life of it's own creating a pressure on the FFA Board and Executive that will make it inevitable. The Anti promotion/relegation brigade is sending out negative and conservative messages bringing up irrelevant issues in a changed landscape from 11 years, 20 years and 40 years ago. Offering exclusion and more of the same that even the franchisee owners are not happy with. We all accept that the FFA is the controlling body of the game here. Its up to the FFA in many ways to put expansion out to tender, but they haven't and they won't in the short term. The FFA has made it clear they have interest in creating a franchise in the Sutherland Shire to capitalise on the "Derby Concept". Todays article about the A-League franchises Chairmen refusing to sit at the FFA dinner for the FIFA officials should be ringing alarm bells to you, but you Conveniently appear to ignore these alarm bells. And hence I say to you keep up your stance and commentary as it is as it only makes the viewpoint I have more positive relative and progressive by the day. Thank you. again, my words on 442 don't have the power to change what will happen.....what will happen has the pagers already written yes, the alarm bells ring, because the A-League can be dead very fast...A you live, B you die, Living is good , select A With the current apes in charge it will die soon.
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AJF
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+xIf people think that some of the ethnic NSL clubs can't survive then they shouldn't be afraid to open up the football pyramid and give every club a chance of playing top flight football. What's there to be scared of if you truly believe these clubs won't be able to achieve anything? And if they do achieve something, is there anything wrong with our top flight clubs being the strongest 10/12/14 in Australia regardless of where they are located and who started them? the A-League is open, put up the money, and have a good plan on why the A-League will be better with this new club oh wait, you mean to let the losers in who don't have enough money to run a professional sports team Who would have guessed, another stoopid comment.
South Melbourne FC has confirmed an offer of more than $3.5 million to buy Melbourne Heart A-League club, and raised the prospect of Brazilian ex-international Emerson as coach.South Melbourne responded via its Facebook account to reports that they had approached Heart with the offer, only to be rejected.The statement read in full: "Following yesterday’s (Wednesday) media reports … and statements made by the CEO of the Melbourne Heart (Scott Munn) South Melbourne FC wishes to confirm the following:• South Melbourne FC that it made an offer to acquire 100% of the Melbourne Heart Licence.
• The offer was in excess of 3.5 million
• The offer was made after several discussions between Heart & SMFC Directors.
• South Melbourne FC has received an expression of interest from Emerson (Brazilian Legend) to coach and has already secured Major Sponsors for its A-League ambitions."
it wasn't enough money..GFC paid more nothing stop SFMC or anyone, in submitting a bid for a 3rd Melbourne team Stoopid comment. FFA is stopping it.
6 MAY 2016 - 3:49PMFFA chairman Lowy cold on A-League expansion
Football Federation Australia chairman Steven Lowy said the A-League needs to focus more on sustainability rather than spreading their wings through expansion.
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