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AJF
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Such a drama queen. drama queen. is when there 50,000 watching women big bash at MCG, and 3000 watching SMFC play Yeah right, the 4,500 that watched City v Mariners last season is much more impressive. that still 50% higher, and it does't help with the idea, that A-League can not fail just like NBL and NSL before them Hate to break it to you but HAL isnt doing that great, particularly when you consider how much extra money they have had to spend compared to the NSL. Lowest attendance records below for HAL are pretty embarrassing for majority of clubs
| Club | Lowest Attendance | | North Queensland Fury | 1,003 | | Gold Coast United | 1,141 | | New Zealand Knights | 1,632 | | Adelaide United | 2,363 | | Melbourne City | 2,754 | | Wellington Phoenix | 3,060 | | Newcastle Jets | 3,114 | | Brisbane Roar | 3,522 | | Sydney FC | 4,012 | | Perth Glory | 4,433 | | Central Coast Mariners | 4,508 | | Melbourne Victory | 5,268 | | Western Sydney Wanderers | 6,755 |
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HortoMagiko
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+x@ Langan I'm not sure what you say is entirely true. They were founded via a merger. Formation Edit South Melbourne was formed in 1959 with the amalgamation of three struggling Melbourne soccer clubs – South Melbourne United, the oldest of the three clubs with a history dating back to the early 1900s – the Greek-backed Yarra Park Aias (Ajax), and Hellenic.[3][4] Theo Marmaras, initiator of the merger proposal and president of Hellenic, became the first president of the new club.[3] In recognition of the large Greek Australian support base of Hellenic and Yarra Park, which were also the best-supported of the three clubs, the new club was named South Melbourne Hellas, the name by which it was to be known for the majority of its 50 years. The first emblem reflected the colour scheme of the Flag of Greece. The first uniform consisted of jersey of white with a red 'V' around the collar, the was[clarification needed] also that of South Melbourne United, as well as blue shorts and blue and white hooped socks. Later on they would adopt predominantly blue and white strips, with various designs throughout the seasons, with the most common being a predominantly royal blue strip. They still hold the original clubs name. I'm guessing they would consider playing in their South Melbourne traditional kit/colours (Sydney Swans etc) if it meant playing in the league. Clubs can change colours. My club changed from black and yellow stripes to green and white for example. I'm not sure playing in blue is more important than playing at all. Although I think they should be able to play in whatever color they wish. They even wore it in the FFA cup  "Would they change their colors?" Lol. The irony. Smfc sporting the colors of hvratska :)
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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Enzo Bearzot
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So much energy wasted discussing what is essentially a pipe dream. P and R will not happen in the A-league. Ever.
Any clubs aspiring full-professional status need to work out how to buy a licence and fund the club on-goingly.
The A-League will peak as 14 team competition.
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Arthur
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. Its like the taxi driver vs uber thing. Now their licences arent worth anything. I would put it more as looking at investment in specific industries, for example the building industry. Investment in the building industry (homes and Infrastructure) can be regulated according to accreditation and standards but new entrants to the industry are not restricted to enter the market as long as they have appropriate accreditations and meet building standards. Based on the market conditions (demand and supply) investors can make their profits while meeting the demand for housing and infrastructure. If you restrict entry to the market on 10 building firms then they would be able to control the market set prices etc. (much like the oil/petrol industry when fuel prices go up and down in a coordinated manner) they wont NEED to be competitive. And that's another business term that has a meaning relevant to football and that's "competitive". Very accurate mataphor that highlights the market manipualtion... scotts also right about licenses not being worth the paper they're written on.. We dont know what kinds of deals the FFA has made. I could imagine they promised CFG that there would be no 3rd in the Greater Melbourne area for x amount of years. Ive always thought this tbh. FIFA asked FFA for a please explain and to handle the issueinternally. Gallop was incensed that a representative of the clubs would goover his head and communicate directly with FIFA and AFC. On 11 March, Gallopemailed Zaitman clarifying that the licence extension for A-League clubs didnot lock out any promotion and relegation system. Gallop also revealed a clausewithin the A-League participation agreement which:
“Expressly provide for the introduction by FFA of a promotion and relegation system for the A-League and furthermore that anA-League club’s continued participation in the A-League is subject to any such promotion and relegation system.”
http://leopoldmethod.com.au/the-restlessness-of-the-aspirationals/Its on the record that the A-League Licences are subject to promotion and relegation. For the FFA to backtrack would not be a good look. Thats why they could have 2 divisions within the "A-League". The 9 clubs that got the 20 year extension (or whatever it was) would still be playing in the A-League.... albeit divison 2 if relegated. The wording is " promotion and relegation system for the A-League" , not pro rel for Australian domestic football. Good to know the FFA were future-proofing when they announced the extension. And while expansion and P&R always seems to be pushed back, at least the FFA have acknowledged the prospect by including this clause. It makes sense though. If they were ever against a wall and were forced to introduce P&R, but the 10 clubs were guaranteed a spot in the 1st division, they'd be F'd. The FFA Executives don't know how to deal with the issues of promotion and relegation. The sports that they come from it doesn't register. Their cultural reference points are AFL, NRL not our football. they know it will not work in Australia...it not about cultural reference points., most countries don't have so much sporting competitions as in Australia Japan had baseball and sumo wrestling before they started football ...all these countries have very weak 2nd team sport... The PFA's APL Document is now recognised as the way we should have gone but ARU chief O'Neill went a different way. Then AFL Executive Ben Buckley introduced new teams that went bust and headed up the World Cup Bid. Now we have NRL Chief Gallop making football decisions.
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Arthur
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+xSo much energy wasted discussing what is essentially a pipe dream. P and R will not happen in the A-league. Ever. Any clubs aspiring full-professional status need to work out how to buy a licence and fund the club on-goingly. The A-League will peak as 14 team competition. No energy wasted, far from it, healthy debate is always essential for the spread of ideas and knowledge
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And Everyone Blamed Clive
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 6.3K,
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+xSo much energy wasted discussing what is essentially a pipe dream. P and R will not happen in the A-league. Ever. Any clubs aspiring full-professional status need to work out how to buy a licence and fund the club on-goingly. The A-League will peak as 14 team competition. No limit to the number of teams in an actual complete pyramid
Winner of Official 442 Comment of the day Award - 10th April 2017
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aufc_ole
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+x+xSo much energy wasted discussing what is essentially a pipe dream. P and R will not happen in the A-league. Ever. Any clubs aspiring full-professional status need to work out how to buy a licence and fund the club on-goingly. The A-League will peak as 14 team competition. No limit to the number of teams in an actual complete pyramid Nah stuff developing better players and improving the football pyramid
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+xSo much energy wasted discussing what is essentially a pipe dream. P and R will not happen in the A-league. Ever. Any clubs aspiring full-professional status need to work out how to buy a licence and fund the club on-goingly. The A-League will peak as 14 team competition. No limit to the number of teams in an actual complete pyramid Nah stuff developing better players and improving the football pyramid The limit is MONEY.
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aussie scott21
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+x+x+x+xBack in 2012 FFA asked Canberra to come up with 6 million to be in contention for an A-League license. If pro-rel was to happen not sure how much they'd ask to be in the A2 with the potential for HAL, but in 2016 dollars I'd imagine more than 1 and less than 6? sorry Horta, not biting Thanks Arthur and scott for keeping it civil Canberra raised a significant amount of funds at the time, money that has been returned. But its money that could have been invested in the game that is now lost. Every time a consortium or Club misses out on an A-League its money lost to the game. By having a national second division the FFA would be providing an investment vehicle these groups can put their money into. Investment in players, Administration, Coaches and infrastructure. Growing the sport in a different way than other sports in Australia. By connecting the 2nd Division to the NPL you provide another investment opportunity at that level. Of course criteria at each level is a key benchmark, opportunity to invest in the game a key driver. If a current A-League franchise was relegated in 5 years to the second division then a couple of years later to NPL what does that say about the Franchise? I just dont see how a full pyramid could work. Queensland for example doesnt have pro rel from NPL. Every year a team from Newcastle and Tasmania get a shot at 2nd division? Promotion and relegation from lower leagues to NPL has to come into force. In the future NPL Clubs that got a shot at the National Second Division would need to demonstrate ability to meet criteria/benchmarks. The nay sayers to promotion-relegation debate never include the adherence to criteria because it doesn't suit their argument. If Tasmania knew they have a window of opportunity to get a Team into the National 2nd Division and its something the stakeholders in Tassie wanted to achieve; what do you think they would be doing to realise their goal? I think it wouldnt be worth the risk. I would much rather see a closed 2 division league of 20 teams established and go from there. You would be able to add teams to either division to expand. The goal would be to eventually move to 3 tier closed system in however many years. Perhaps ending up with eg. 12, 12, 18. How many clubs have professional ambitions? its hard to say without the carrot. But the tv and FFA dont want a league/league system full of Melbourne and Sydney teams only.
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bigpoppa
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. Its like the taxi driver vs uber thing. Now their licences arent worth anything. I would put it more as looking at investment in specific industries, for example the building industry. Investment in the building industry (homes and Infrastructure) can be regulated according to accreditation and standards but new entrants to the industry are not restricted to enter the market as long as they have appropriate accreditations and meet building standards. Based on the market conditions (demand and supply) investors can make their profits while meeting the demand for housing and infrastructure. If you restrict entry to the market on 10 building firms then they would be able to control the market set prices etc. (much like the oil/petrol industry when fuel prices go up and down in a coordinated manner) they wont NEED to be competitive. And that's another business term that has a meaning relevant to football and that's "competitive". Very accurate mataphor that highlights the market manipualtion... scotts also right about licenses not being worth the paper they're written on.. We dont know what kinds of deals the FFA has made. I could imagine they promised CFG that there would be no 3rd in the Greater Melbourne area for x amount of years. Ive always thought this tbh. FIFA asked FFA for a please explain and to handle the issueinternally. Gallop was incensed that a representative of the clubs would goover his head and communicate directly with FIFA and AFC. On 11 March, Gallopemailed Zaitman clarifying that the licence extension for A-League clubs didnot lock out any promotion and relegation system. Gallop also revealed a clausewithin the A-League participation agreement which:
“Expressly provide for the introduction by FFA of a promotion and relegation system for the A-League and furthermore that anA-League club’s continued participation in the A-League is subject to any such promotion and relegation system.”
http://leopoldmethod.com.au/the-restlessness-of-the-aspirationals/Its on the record that the A-League Licences are subject to promotion and relegation. For the FFA to backtrack would not be a good look. Thats why they could have 2 divisions within the "A-League". The 9 clubs that got the 20 year extension (or whatever it was) would still be playing in the A-League.... albeit divison 2 if relegated. The wording is " promotion and relegation system for the A-League" , not pro rel for Australian domestic football. Good to know the FFA were future-proofing when they announced the extension. And while expansion and P&R always seems to be pushed back, at least the FFA have acknowledged the prospect by including this clause. It makes sense though. If they were ever against a wall and were forced to introduce P&R, but the 10 clubs were guaranteed a spot in the 1st division, they'd be F'd. Pretty sure its how its done in South Korea and Japan. K-League and J-League are basically one big closed league split into divisions with Pro/Rel amongst themselves. You need a K/J-League licence to leave the amatuers and join the K/J-Leagues. So technically K-League is 23 clubs - K-League Classic(12clubs)/K-League Challenge(11) and J-League is 53 clubs with J1(18)/J2(22)/J3(13). The Japan Football League is a semi-pro league below the J-Leagues that has some professional clubs in it that hold J-League associate licences which I assume is whilst the get themselves to a point where they meet J-League licence criteria. K-League was a 16team closed league(ring any bells?) until 2013 when FIFA/AFC stepped in now it is what I've stated above. I don't think FIFA/AFC would expect a developing football nation to open up all the tiers to straight pro/rel. Standards do have to be met or how else is the game going to improve? The issue is FFA sitting on their hands and not giving anyone anything on how to improve and the standards they have to be at for inclusion. Some NPL clubs would be silly to think they would earn an A-League licence tomorrow with the facilities etc they have but give them something to work towards and lets see how they go.
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paulbagzFC
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Based on what lol? -PB climate change is a load of shit, it base on a guess....but if they are right, and climate change is really happening, then the World is fucked if we don't change what do you take the risk on the A-League can end up like the NBL And you *could* one day end up looking like an intelligent poster, but you don't see people around here posting to the contrary? -PB
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Arthur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.1K,
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+x+x+x+xSo much energy wasted discussing what is essentially a pipe dream. P and R will not happen in the A-league. Ever. Any clubs aspiring full-professional status need to work out how to buy a licence and fund the club on-goingly. The A-League will peak as 14 team competition. No limit to the number of teams in an actual complete pyramid Nah stuff developing better players and improving the football pyramid The limit is MONEY. CORRECT. By opening up the league pyramid there will be more investment.
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Up the ante
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Sounds like a pyramid scheme ;)
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HortoMagiko
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+xSounds like a pyramid scheme ;) Nah, pyramids are known to stand the test of time... think Egypt.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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sydneyfc1987
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Such a drama queen. drama queen. is when there 50,000 watching women big bash at MCG, and 3000 watching SMFC play Yeah right, the 4,500 that watched City v Mariners last season is much more impressive. that still 50% higher, and it does't help with the idea, that A-League can not fail just like NBL and NSL before them Hate to break it to you but HAL isnt doing that great, particularly when you consider how much extra money they have had to spend compared to the NSL. Lowest attendance records below for HAL are pretty embarrassing for majority of clubs
| Club | Lowest Attendance | | North Queensland Fury | 1,003 | | Gold Coast United | 1,141 | | New Zealand Knights | 1,632 | | Adelaide United | 2,363 | | Melbourne City | 2,754 | | Wellington Phoenix | 3,060 | | Newcastle Jets | 3,114 | | Brisbane Roar | 3,522 | | Sydney FC | 4,012 | | Perth Glory | 4,433 | | Central Coast Mariners | 4,508 | | Melbourne Victory | 5,268 | | Western Sydney Wanderers | 6,755 | I might as well take the highest attendance for clubs in the 11 year history of the league and say its going gangbusters.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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AJF
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.7K,
Visits: 2
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Such a drama queen. drama queen. is when there 50,000 watching women big bash at MCG, and 3000 watching SMFC play Yeah right, the 4,500 that watched City v Mariners last season is much more impressive. that still 50% higher, and it does't help with the idea, that A-League can not fail just like NBL and NSL before them Hate to break it to you but HAL isnt doing that great, particularly when you consider how much extra money they have had to spend compared to the NSL. Lowest attendance records below for HAL are pretty embarrassing for majority of clubs
| Club | Lowest Attendance | | North Queensland Fury | 1,003 | | Gold Coast United | 1,141 | | New Zealand Knights | 1,632 | | Adelaide United | 2,363 | | Melbourne City | 2,754 | | Wellington Phoenix | 3,060 | | Newcastle Jets | 3,114 | | Brisbane Roar | 3,522 | | Sydney FC | 4,012 | | Perth Glory | 4,433 | | Central Coast Mariners | 4,508 | | Melbourne Victory | 5,268 | | Western Sydney Wanderers | 6,755 | I might as well take the highest attendance for clubs in the 11 year history of the league and say its going gangbusters. You could say that, but you'd be wrong. No matter how much spin the FFA fanboys want put on it, the harsh reality is the HAL has basically stood still for the last 11 years and with clubs like Brisbane begging for money to pay players its hard to say its healthy financially either. Unfortunately you cant blame the effniks this time round
| Season | HAL Regular Season Average (Excludes Finals) | | 2005–06 | 10,956 | | 2006–07 | 12,911 | | 2007–08 | 14,610 | | 2008–09 | 12,180 | | 2009–10 | 9,793 | | 2010–11 | 8,429 | | 2011–12 | 10,497 | | 2012–13 | 12,347 | | 2013–14 | 13,041 | | 2014–15 | 12,511 | | 2015–16 | 12,326 |
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Gazzza
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.1K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Such a drama queen. drama queen. is when there 50,000 watching women big bash at MCG, and 3000 watching SMFC play Yeah right, the 4,500 that watched City v Mariners last season is much more impressive. that still 50% higher, and it does't help with the idea, that A-League can not fail just like NBL and NSL before them Hate to break it to you but HAL isnt doing that great, particularly when you consider how much extra money they have had to spend compared to the NSL. Lowest attendance records below for HAL are pretty embarrassing for majority of clubs
| Club | Lowest Attendance | | North Queensland Fury | 1,003 | | Gold Coast United | 1,141 | | New Zealand Knights | 1,632 | | Adelaide United | 2,363 | | Melbourne City | 2,754 | | Wellington Phoenix | 3,060 | | Newcastle Jets | 3,114 | | Brisbane Roar | 3,522 | | Sydney FC | 4,012 | | Perth Glory | 4,433 | | Central Coast Mariners | 4,508 | | Melbourne Victory | 5,268 | | Western Sydney Wanderers | 6,755 | Some of those were not at their home stadiums. | Club | Lowest Attendance | | North Queensland Fury | 1,003 - | | Gold Coast United | 1,141 - | | New Zealand Knights | 1,632 | | Adelaide United | 2,363 - Carrington Park, Bathurst, NSW | | Melbourne City | 2,754 | | Wellington Phoenix | 3,060 | | Newcastle Jets | 3,114 - Port Macquarie Regional Stadium | | Brisbane Roar | 3,522 - Skilled Park, Robina, QLD | | Sydney FC | 4,012 | | Perth Glory | 4,433 | | Central Coast Mariners | 4,508 | | Melbourne Victory | 5,268 - Aurora Stadium, Launceston, TAS | | Western Sydney Wanderers | 6,755 |
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bitza
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. Its like the taxi driver vs uber thing. Now their licences arent worth anything. I would put it more as looking at investment in specific industries, for example the building industry. Investment in the building industry (homes and Infrastructure) can be regulated according to accreditation and standards but new entrants to the industry are not restricted to enter the market as long as they have appropriate accreditations and meet building standards. Based on the market conditions (demand and supply) investors can make their profits while meeting the demand for housing and infrastructure. If you restrict entry to the market on 10 building firms then they would be able to control the market set prices etc. (much like the oil/petrol industry when fuel prices go up and down in a coordinated manner) they wont NEED to be competitive. And that's another business term that has a meaning relevant to football and that's "competitive". Very accurate mataphor that highlights the market manipualtion... scotts also right about licenses not being worth the paper they're written on.. We dont know what kinds of deals the FFA has made. I could imagine they promised CFG that there would be no 3rd in the Greater Melbourne area for x amount of years. Ive always thought this tbh. FIFA asked FFA for a please explain and to handle the issueinternally. Gallop was incensed that a representative of the clubs would goover his head and communicate directly with FIFA and AFC. On 11 March, Gallopemailed Zaitman clarifying that the licence extension for A-League clubs didnot lock out any promotion and relegation system. Gallop also revealed a clausewithin the A-League participation agreement which:
“Expressly provide for the introduction by FFA of a promotion and relegation system for the A-League and furthermore that anA-League club’s continued participation in the A-League is subject to any such promotion and relegation system.”
http://leopoldmethod.com.au/the-restlessness-of-the-aspirationals/Its on the record that the A-League Licences are subject to promotion and relegation. For the FFA to backtrack would not be a good look. Thats why they could have 2 divisions within the "A-League". The 9 clubs that got the 20 year extension (or whatever it was) would still be playing in the A-League.... albeit divison 2 if relegated. The wording is " promotion and relegation system for the A-League" , not pro rel for Australian domestic football. Good to know the FFA were future-proofing when they announced the extension. And while expansion and P&R always seems to be pushed back, at least the FFA have acknowledged the prospect by including this clause. It makes sense though. If they were ever against a wall and were forced to introduce P&R, but the 10 clubs were guaranteed a spot in the 1st division, they'd be F'd. Pretty sure its how its done in South Korea and Japan. K-League and J-League are basically one big closed league split into divisions with Pro/Rel amongst themselves. You need a K/J-League licence to leave the amatuers and join the K/J-Leagues. So technically K-League is 23 clubs - K-League Classic(12clubs)/K-League Challenge(11) and J-League is 53 clubs with J1(18)/J2(22)/J3(13). The Japan Football League is a semi-pro league below the J-Leagues that has some professional clubs in it that hold J-League associate licences which I assume is whilst the get themselves to a point where they meet J-League licence criteria. K-League was a 16team closed league(ring any bells?) until 2013 when FIFA/AFC stepped in now it is what I've stated above. I don't think FIFA/AFC would expect a developing football nation to open up all the tiers to straight pro/rel. Standards do have to be met or how else is the game going to improve? The issue is FFA sitting on their hands and not giving anyone anything on how to improve and the standards they have to be at for inclusion. Some NPL clubs would be silly to think they would earn an A-League licence tomorrow with the facilities etc they have but give them something to work towards and lets see how they go. Pretty sure the dutch league had two closed leagues. With no connection between the 2nd league and the divisions below (amature) up until 2009
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adrtho2
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. yes...but how do you think it work in Europe? the A-League is very successful league in how fast and how little money owners lose
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 30K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. yes...but how do you think it work in Europe? the A-League is very successful league in how fast and how little money owners lose Pretty sure a league owners lose a lot of money.
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adrtho2
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. yes...but how do you think it work in Europe? the A-League is very successful league in how fast and how little money owners lose Pretty sure a league owners lose a lot of money. yes this is English Championship League loses https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15S9v9-B-MrxThdtVZYN-U3Rf2FeWhSzc29NP_6udSec/edit#gid=1the 24 team lost £310m on £430m turnover
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adrtho2
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. yes...but how do you think it work in Europe? the A-League is very successful league in how fast and how little money owners lose Pretty sure a league owners lose a lot of money. yes this is English Championship League loses https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15S9v9-B-MrxThdtVZYN-U3Rf2FeWhSzc29NP_6udSec/edit#gid=1the 24 team lost £310m on £430m turnover debt £972m interest on debt £32m
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adrtho2
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Such a drama queen. drama queen. is when there 50,000 watching women big bash at MCG, and 3000 watching SMFC play Yeah right, the 4,500 that watched City v Mariners last season is much more impressive. that still 50% higher, and it does't help with the idea, that A-League can not fail just like NBL and NSL before them Hate to break it to you but HAL isnt doing that great, particularly when you consider how much extra money they have had to spend compared to the NSL. Lowest attendance records below for HAL are pretty embarrassing for majority of clubs
| Club | Lowest Attendance | | North Queensland Fury | 1,003 | | Gold Coast United | 1,141 | | New Zealand Knights | 1,632 | | Adelaide United | 2,363 | | Melbourne City | 2,754 | | Wellington Phoenix | 3,060 | | Newcastle Jets | 3,114 | | Brisbane Roar | 3,522 | | Sydney FC | 4,012 | | Perth Glory | 4,433 | | Central Coast Mariners | 4,508 | | Melbourne Victory | 5,268 | | Western Sydney Wanderers | 6,755 | and you want to bring in clubs where that can go to 500?
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. yes...but how do you think it work in Europe? the A-League is very successful league in how fast and how little money owners lose Pretty sure a league owners lose a lot of money. yes this is English Championship League loses https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15S9v9-B-MrxThdtVZYN-U3Rf2FeWhSzc29NP_6udSec/edit#gid=1the 24 team lost £310m on £430m turnover debt £972m interest on debt £32m So weve established everyone loses money. Ok lets just have a closed league then. The current model is unsustainable, and our admin is not transparent, practice nepotism, run our top tier like its a game show ....but its the devil everone knows right? Because its better than the nsl.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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adrtho2
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. yes...but how do you think it work in Europe? the A-League is very successful league in how fast and how little money owners lose Pretty sure a league owners lose a lot of money. yes this is English Championship League loses https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15S9v9-B-MrxThdtVZYN-U3Rf2FeWhSzc29NP_6udSec/edit#gid=1the 24 team lost £310m on £430m turnover debt £972m interest on debt £32m So weve established everyone loses money. Ok lets just have a closed league then. The current model is unsustainable, and our admin is not transparent, practice nepotism, run our top tier like its a game show ....but its the devil everone knows right? Because its better than the nsl. the A-League, is very successfully, for how shit it can be in Australia......l lets not for get, There are clubs in dutch 2nd league that pay €1000 a month , and players are full time....Netherlands with 17 million population, and no other pro sports league in the country, can not find 36 pro teams
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. yes...but how do you think it work in Europe? the A-League is very successful league in how fast and how little money owners lose Pretty sure a league owners lose a lot of money. yes this is English Championship League loses https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15S9v9-B-MrxThdtVZYN-U3Rf2FeWhSzc29NP_6udSec/edit#gid=1the 24 team lost £310m on £430m turnover debt £972m interest on debt £32m So weve established everyone loses money. Ok lets just have a closed league then. The current model is unsustainable, and our admin is not transparent, practice nepotism, run our top tier like its a game show ....but its the devil everone knows right? Because its better than the nsl. the A-League, is very successfully, for how shit it can be in Australia......l lets not for get, There are clubs in dutch 2nd league that pay €1000 a month , and players are full time....Netherlands with 17 million population, and no other pro sports league in the country, can not find 36 pro teams The eredivisie definitely something to aspire to. 18 teams. And 20 in the 2nd div. id be happy with 12 and 8 tbh.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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sydneyfc1987
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Such a drama queen. drama queen. is when there 50,000 watching women big bash at MCG, and 3000 watching SMFC play Yeah right, the 4,500 that watched City v Mariners last season is much more impressive. that still 50% higher, and it does't help with the idea, that A-League can not fail just like NBL and NSL before them Hate to break it to you but HAL isnt doing that great, particularly when you consider how much extra money they have had to spend compared to the NSL. Lowest attendance records below for HAL are pretty embarrassing for majority of clubs
| Club | Lowest Attendance | | North Queensland Fury | 1,003 | | Gold Coast United | 1,141 | | New Zealand Knights | 1,632 | | Adelaide United | 2,363 | | Melbourne City | 2,754 | | Wellington Phoenix | 3,060 | | Newcastle Jets | 3,114 | | Brisbane Roar | 3,522 | | Sydney FC | 4,012 | | Perth Glory | 4,433 | | Central Coast Mariners | 4,508 | | Melbourne Victory | 5,268 | | Western Sydney Wanderers | 6,755 | I might as well take the highest attendance for clubs in the 11 year history of the league and say its going gangbusters. You could say that, but you'd be wrong. No matter how much spin the FFA fanboys want put on it, the harsh reality is the HAL has basically stood still for the last 11 years and with clubs like Brisbane begging for money to pay players its hard to say its healthy financially either. Unfortunately you cant blame the effniks this time round
| Season | HAL Regular Season Average (Excludes Finals) | | 2005–06 | 10,956 | | 2006–07 | 12,911 | | 2007–08 | 14,610 | | 2008–09 | 12,180 | | 2009–10 | 9,793 | | 2010–11 | 8,429 | | 2011–12 | 10,497 | | 2012–13 | 12,347 | | 2013–14 | 13,041 | | 2014–15 | 12,511 | | 2015–16 | 12,326 |
Maybe its just me that they look like solid fucking numbers. It terms of actual club growth i'd look to membership numbers first, which indicate steady growth in core club support. In terms of clubs losing money. It is certainly an issue that needs addressing. And for what its worth, i'm all for a club like SMFC (or any other ethnic based club that could potentially draw 7-8k to games) to join the league. But don't try and feed us bullshit like before where you pull the lowest numbers in the history of each A-League club as some sort of proof that the league is a basket case. It just discredits your argument and makes you look silly.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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adrtho2
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. yes...but how do you think it work in Europe? the A-League is very successful league in how fast and how little money owners lose Pretty sure a league owners lose a lot of money. yes this is English Championship League loses https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15S9v9-B-MrxThdtVZYN-U3Rf2FeWhSzc29NP_6udSec/edit#gid=1the 24 team lost £310m on £430m turnover debt £972m interest on debt £32m So weve established everyone loses money. Ok lets just have a closed league then. The current model is unsustainable, and our admin is not transparent, practice nepotism, run our top tier like its a game show ....but its the devil everone knows right? Because its better than the nsl. the A-League, is very successfully, for how shit it can be in Australia......l lets not for get, There are clubs in dutch 2nd league that pay €1000 a month , and players are full time....Netherlands with 17 million population, and no other pro sports league in the country, can not find 36 pro teams The eredivisie definitely something to aspire to. 18 teams. And 20 in the 2nd div. id be happy with 12 and 8 tbh. aspire to? so, let have clubs paying €1000 euros a month to players in wagers ...i guess they can apply for the dole at the same time
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adrtho2
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xMelbourne Knight and SMFC are never getting into the A-League.....all SMFC can do, is do what the Greeks do best , cry, bitch, moan, backstab.c onspire, destroy any good in society there jealous brains leads them to The amusing part of this commentary and some of your previous commentary regarding promotion/relegation and the former NSL Clubs or Ethnic Clubs as you prefer is that the more you post (and that goes for some others along your lines) are actually helping my cause for Promotion and Relegation and the acceptance of "Ethnic Clubs" in this diatribe. The conversation is being held more and more often not only on this forum but in social media and mainstream football media. Just to sooth the nay sayers on this topic as happens all over the world the football pyramid is based on promotion and relegation that we can all agree on. What nay sayers conveniently forget is that as you go up the levels Criteria (as the FIFA Statutes state) plays a role. To be in the A-League you need a fulltime CEO, you need a football department, a marketing department, training facilities, access to private funding to cover losses, an adequate stadium etc. etc. On this basis alone the vast majority of Club outside the A-League are not ready nor able to be promoted to the A-League overnight. Its common sense. i doubt i have that much power , to help the day the A-League is forces to have promotion and relegation, is the day the A-League will be dead, it will be rip apart by the by AFL, NRL , and women 20/20 Cricket Such a drama queen. drama queen. is when there 50,000 watching women big bash at MCG, and 3000 watching SMFC play Yeah right, the 4,500 that watched City v Mariners last season is much more impressive. that still 50% higher, and it does't help with the idea, that A-League can not fail just like NBL and NSL before them Hate to break it to you but HAL isnt doing that great, particularly when you consider how much extra money they have had to spend compared to the NSL. Lowest attendance records below for HAL are pretty embarrassing for majority of clubs
| Club | Lowest Attendance | | North Queensland Fury | 1,003 | | Gold Coast United | 1,141 | | New Zealand Knights | 1,632 | | Adelaide United | 2,363 | | Melbourne City | 2,754 | | Wellington Phoenix | 3,060 | | Newcastle Jets | 3,114 | | Brisbane Roar | 3,522 | | Sydney FC | 4,012 | | Perth Glory | 4,433 | | Central Coast Mariners | 4,508 | | Melbourne Victory | 5,268 | | Western Sydney Wanderers | 6,755 | I might as well take the highest attendance for clubs in the 11 year history of the league and say its going gangbusters. You could say that, but you'd be wrong. No matter how much spin the FFA fanboys want put on it, the harsh reality is the HAL has basically stood still for the last 11 years and with clubs like Brisbane begging for money to pay players its hard to say its healthy financially either. Unfortunately you cant blame the effniks this time round
| Season | HAL Regular Season Average (Excludes Finals) | | 2005–06 | 10,956 | | 2006–07 | 12,911 | | 2007–08 | 14,610 | | 2008–09 | 12,180 | | 2009–10 | 9,793 | | 2010–11 | 8,429 | | 2011–12 | 10,497 | | 2012–13 | 12,347 | | 2013–14 | 13,041 | | 2014–15 | 12,511 | | 2015–16 | 12,326 |
those number make the A-League, the 16th most game attended Football(soccer) league in the world.....are you saying by adding P/R the A-League will get more people to the game, the A-league past Brasileiro Série A and Football League Championship maybe, just maybe, the A_League (soccer) will never get more support ...why do we believe the A-League going to get more people to the game then NRL?
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand the fuss. If your criteria for supporting a football team is that it matches your parents or grandparents nationalism then go for it, no one is stopping you. Wave the flag, chant, do whatever you like, no one is saying you shouldn't so there is no need to get defensive. Just understand that the HAL is set up like a business, it is driving to get as many bums on seats and people chatting about the game on Monday morning at work etc and is doing pretty damn well if compared to what was there before. The nsl was a basket case, it had its chance and turned huge amounts of the populace off. Trying to bring parts of it back is not something a business person would do, because it proved itself to be a losing model, even if the Hal has massive issues right now it is still massively bigger than the nsl was. There are now people going to games and talking about the game that would never in the past, and it is clear that even if there are people abandoning the Hal for their favorite old nsl team because the Hal is too plastic they are being outweighed by people getting excited about the Hal, but that doesn't matter. Just go support your team whatever league they are in, no amount of Internet banter is going to change the Ffa opinions on this On a purely business level the A-League Franchises are loss makers with the exceptions of MVFC and WSWFC. Without significant amounts of private capital and underwriting losses from businessmen the A-League wouldn't operate. Its not a sustainable business model long term. The only growth in financial terms for the franchise owner is capital growth of the Licence. The capital growth of the licence value is secured by restrictive issuance, not on good business practice based on cashflows and profitability. Business is always best served by open and accessible markets with equally applicable regulation. Protective markets hinder investment levels from new sources due to restrictive access. yes...but how do you think it work in Europe? the A-League is very successful league in how fast and how little money owners lose Pretty sure a league owners lose a lot of money. yes this is English Championship League loses https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15S9v9-B-MrxThdtVZYN-U3Rf2FeWhSzc29NP_6udSec/edit#gid=1the 24 team lost £310m on £430m turnover debt £972m interest on debt £32m So weve established everyone loses money. Ok lets just have a closed league then. The current model is unsustainable, and our admin is not transparent, practice nepotism, run our top tier like its a game show ....but its the devil everone knows right? Because its better than the nsl. the A-League, is very successfully, for how shit it can be in Australia......l lets not for get, There are clubs in dutch 2nd league that pay €1000 a month , and players are full time....Netherlands with 17 million population, and no other pro sports league in the country, can not find 36 pro teams The eredivisie definitely something to aspire to. 18 teams. And 20 in the 2nd div. id be happy with 12 and 8 tbh. aspire to? so, let have clubs paying €1000 euros a month to players in wagers ...i guess they can apply for the dole at the same time 18 pro clubs is the ultimate goal... anyway dont be so obsessed w europe,, look at asia, malaysia have 12.. and 12 div2 .. if malaysia can manage it, im sure we can. Its not the death knell youre trying to make it out to be.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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