Joint VIC NSW league to start. 4 teams from each using a conference system for only 4 interstate trips plus finals [ h&a for 14 games and your own conference again h&a for a further 6 games]

Once this is done for proof of concept open it up to any east coast team and then slowly expand it from there. keep it conference as long as costs determine it needs to be. There is no harm in stating it small and conferenced with plans to end up with a normal home and away league of whatever size .

It's all about walking before you can run.

Speculation-

I dont think Cockerills groupings would be fair or a good representation. 

If we use the 2014 FFA Cup as a starting point. 

4 Qld
2 NNSW
7 NSW
1 ACT
4 Vic
1 Tas
1 SA
2 WA

That would be 14:8

Im pretty sure NNSW have said they couldnt do it financially or only as a united team and Im pretty sure Magic and Eagles feud. Eagles probably arent that ambitious as Jets exist. 

That means 12:8
I would include ACT with the Southern conference to make 11:9. That is probably the best groupings imo you could have. Even then I assume that only 1 WA teams would want to enter. It would be hard to imagine the FA wanting to have a team if a club team steps up. For SA it would be hard to imagine more than 2 clubs would want to join with the AC and WA having made the most noise so far. 4 Adelaide teams (including AU) seems overload. 

Personally I dont think a Qld Sydney league would be so spectacular. 

I would hate to see a situation where places like Launceston, Ballarat and even Hobart get a look in because they split the teams in a way where they needed to make up numbers and other places in Qld and teams in Sydney who are more suitable miss out because of it. 

Also as others have mentioned it would probably be top heavy with Melbourne teams in the South. This could also be unfair for Sydney teams whom are of the same or higher level but miss out because of places. 

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As for conferences... I would buy into the concept more if you played each team from your own conference twice and the other conference once. That could be possible with 2x 10 teams.

Then at the very end of the season have the two top teams play each other. The team that had to play away during the season in the cross conference game gets the home game in a "second" final leg. No away goals. If it was 1-1 fisrt game then 2-2 go to extra time etc then pens. 

Exactly. To cut down 92 club division down to any size would appear a success. It's not as if they are completely ruling it out as a possibility to  have two extra tiers simply by having the top half of the two tiers combine to make the second tier.

There would be a lot of clubs who would be disappointed if it were to be a united second division and that could lead to some angst. Lets see where we go from here.

Just a note before we crap on one another but the AAFC are waiting for the results of FIFAs ruling on the FFA before proceeding.

If we go conferences again forget it.  May as well stay at State based NPL and do nothing.  If what we have now is not a National comp, then for the same reasons, neither is a conference.  It's bound to fail - has to fail.

Forget the conference bullshit.  Start with those who want to be in no matter where they come from.  Add the others as they stand up to be counted.  You only need 8 to start and then grow it to 18 through taking the best from each seasons applicants until you have enough then go pro/rel.
You could even have a comp between new applicants to play off for the promotion place at the end of each season.  That way you don't even need to dovetail into the existing structure thus avoiding the complexities about to fall on your neck if you have to mollify every State's concerns about overall integration.

Some Clubs are going to roll over and fall out.  As long as the basic structure is sound then that won't matter.  Anybody coming in should have their eyes open.  The League body will have the responsibility of due diligence on every application.  Bit of a job but not overly onerous if you don't start with over the top standards for a second level League.

Assuming the two conference system could out with the best teams from each conference facing each other in a final series to determine the champion? It's not perfect but you have to start somewhere, everything done would feel like trail and error.

@ Scott21

Agree fully - for Div 2 to succeed it needs Vic/NSWs together

Separating Sydney and Melbournr except for finals would imo be stupid. These will be high interest games/clubs.

I think the two conference thing will kill it - think guys, think. You cant please all the people all the time!!

I'd rather it was a ten team (east coast) league now with guaranteed expansion for WA and SA later on. I know national should mean national but 12 sides from Vic/SA/WA for one conference? Sounds more like NPL Vic in disguise.

As for 2 conferences yuck.

I know it is a cost saver, but having 24 teams play each other once over 23 rounds is better that 24 teams playing 22 games against 11 opponents imo.

A new second-tier will unleash the potential. The FFA still doesn't seem sure, and remains in a self-induced state of paralysis. So others are moving ahead with a plan. Don't think enthusiasm has ebbed away because the issue has disappeared from the news cycle. The push for a second division is about to hit the headlines again.

Three months after being formed, the Association of Australian Football Clubs (AAFC) is poised to unveil it's founding board of directors. Those directors will come from every major state to ensure they're truly representative of AAFC's 120-odd member clubs. From those 120 clubs, around 30 have expressed interest in becoming part of a new nationwide league.

The size of the second division is still to be determined, but the likely model is for a two-conference system involving between 20-24 clubs. Queensland, NSW, Northern NSW and the ACT will form one conference, with Victoria, South Australia, Tasmania and Western Australia combining to form the other. Providing opportunity for regional cities such as Cairns, Townsville, Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast, Ballarat, Geelong and Wollongong is also likely to be part of the charter.

http://amp.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/tom-rogics-heroics-for-celtic-prove-need-to-widen-development-pathways-20170528-gwesa6.html

This is why I think it is better to have a closed 2 tier system. At least initially. Clubs with ambition to get to the top. All 120 were never going to have that ambition and I wouldn't like clubs to take places in a systems infancy.

AAFC and their 100 clubs still think they can budget for it so let it be.

Why?  Just because you don't want it to be included doesn't mean they should leave it out.  They have said what they have modelled and what it would cost.

But that research shouldn't have included a women's team, youth team or salary cap costs (maybe rough wage estimates)

The PFA model has 1st team player payments totalling $1.5m which is about twice what many NPL clubs pay now to part timers so its not so too over the top and you certainly wouldn't be getting any marquees within that figure.

Yes it could literally be the difference between having 10 or 20 teams.

The high bar teams will pass the low bar. But not all low bar teams will pass the high bar.

What he means is not paying ridiculous marquee fees at the expense of the competition. Why buy a ridiculous marquee for a second tier. Keep it cheap and it will be more effective.

Whether they can pay rent or not should be up to the clubs imo.

If there are breaches in payments (players, stadium) remove the team for example and bar them for a set time period 5-10 years.

I'd say it's both stadium standards but maybe more importantly, stadium ownership.

Yeah players are a no brainier.

Stadium standards is what should be debated.

The salary cap needs to go, and then there is no 'bar' that needs to be set, other than the minimum professional criteria. 

Then it's up to each club to decide where on the scale it wants to operate.

?

Low bar means players can be paid national award wage. Not some made up amount PFA thinks, that includes women's teams.

A club will cost what it costs to be professional. We shouldn't make up high numbers and exclude potential professional teams.

Why on earth would we set the bar as low as possible?  Surely we need to be working towards having the clubs professional as soon as possible and that takes serious cash.

We need to set the bar as low as possible not as high as possible...

The PFA has researched and costed a fully professional 2nd division.  That can be worked up to over a period of time in my view.  They did a similar report for the replacement of the NSL 15 years ago.  The NSL Task Force Report done after the initial PFA work put a 5 year time line to get to a full cost NSL replacement.  I think that sort of timeline is a goal but it may take longer for a fully professional 2nd div.

The PFA have basically done research on another league not a 2nd div. If the end goal is PR that cap will have to be scrapped at some point too

A-League second division for 2018-19 'a realistic goal'

Michael Huguenin

Updated at 3:11 a.m. ET

Northern Fury chairman Rabieh Krayem has welcomed Professional Footballers Australia's (PFA) research on a national second division and has claimed the Association of Australian Football Clubs (AAFC) will add to the discussion in the next couple of months.

MORE: Almost 100 clubs meet in AAFC's first official meeting

While Krayem and PFA CEO John Didulica differ slightly on the details of what a second-tier competition under the A-League might look like, both are completely convinced that there has never been a better time to make it happen.

In fact, Krayem reckons a professional second-tier competition is feasible within 18 months and confirmed it is something Fury would be interested in.

"I think if all parties worked together, there's no reason why a second tier couldn't happen in the 2018-19 season. I think that's a realistic goal," he told Goal.

"There is a groundswell amongst the football community to pursue this further.

"I think most importantly, everyone agrees that we should have one. It's now about coming up with a model that's financially sustainable and delivers more opportunities for young players in Australia to go to the next level."

Since the AAFC - a representative body for clubs in the state-based National Premier Leagues (NPL) - was officially established in March, it has been working towards releasing official positions on how a national second division and promotion-relegation could work in Australia.

"I would be very surprised if we don't have a position sorted by the end of May or June," Krayem said.

Hume City v Brisbane Strikers FFA Cup 29072015

Hume City v Brisbane Strikers, FFA Cup

With Football Federation Australia putting A-League expansion on the backburner as it looks to restructure its governance model and attract more capital to Australia's premier competition, Didulica believes work on a second division should begin "sooner rather than later".

COMMENT: Is FFA missing an expansion opportunity?

"We need more employment, more secure employment, we need pathways for young players, for retiring players, we need pathways for coaches - so these are the things that are motivating us," he told Goal.

"You wrap that around our need to be internationally competitive in terms of global competition, it makes very sound policy sense to build our professional football footprint."

Earlier this month, PFA revealed what it believes a national second division would cost clubs in a report in the Herald Sun.

Possible 'B-League' candidates

According to Didulica, the figures of $5.5milllion per club - including player wages of approximately $1.5m - plus $10-12m for central running costs of the division would ensure a new competition between the A-League and the NPL would be a "genuine step forward".

While Krayem baulks at the idea a second division club would need an annual turnover of over $5m, Didulica is unapologetic about setting high standards for a competition that would potentially provide future A-League representatives.

Daniel McBreen Bentleigh Greens v Edgeworth FC NPL Finals 17092016

Bentleigh Greens v Edgeworth Eagles, National Premier Leagues Finals

"We need to actually set the bar at the level that we can constructively build Australian football," the PFA boss said.

FFA Cup could force promotion-relegation

"Part of that is a player pathway piece, which is the players need to be in a professional environment and that comes with a price-tag.

"The second part is that clubs - if they are realistic about joining the A-League, if they're realistic about having a high quality product for their fans - that needs to be at a certain level as well… there's no point in having a second tier where clubs are turning over $1.5m or $2m."

Where Didulica and Krayem do agree is that the best way to ensure a professional national second tier is a success is by having as many key stakeholders involved as possible.

Murray, Foster front Southern Expansion A-League bid

They also agree that although promotion-relegation is the ultimate goal it wouldn't be immediately introduced upon the formation of a second division to the A-League.

With at least 10 clubs and entities having already publically declared their interest in joining an expanded A-League, and numerous other NPL outfits keen to return to a professional environment, there is clearly an appetite for the concept.

http://www.sportingnews.com/au/football/news/a-league-second-division-for-2018-19-a-realistic-goal/1wey6n5nej8hi1qeepbxmixose


Again, it is ridiculous to demand women's and youth teams if you agree that pro rel is the goal....

Benefits would be endless and will increase the revenue of the game. FFA must tap into the streaming market.

I will put this article here as it is some what relevant. I don't agree with What DD implies that teams should be basically Australians only in a div 2.

What Les Murray writes below imo is madness. To mandate clubs to play youth, which he implies, is irresponsible. It would only bring down the level of the league/s.

If they are good enough they should play. Expansion and 2nd div would help this naturally without a stupid mandate.

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Why A-League teams should have a youth quota

We spoke about Panos Armenakas, young Australian starlet at Udinese, mutually admired by both of us. I lamented that at 18 the young man of immense technical talents should surely be promoted out of the Primavera and into the senior team at Udine.

I added for extra ammunition that Pelé won the World Cup at 17.

"Yes, but those days are gone," said Vince.

And indeed they are. Compared to past eras coaches, especially at the higher level professional clubs of Europe, just don’t give the kids a chance any more.

Occasionally they break through as teenagers but more often than not they then disappear, usually somewhere on loan.

Like Adnan Januzaj who burst through at Manchester United at age 18 with his quick turn of speed and wonderful technique. By age 19 he was a Belgian international. Remember him?

Now, at 22, he is in his second loan spell, first at Borussia Dortmund and then at Sunderland.

Another is, or was, Alen Halilovic, a brilliant, deflty creative midfielder who came through at Dinamo Zagreb at age 16 and was signed with big wraps by Barcelona two years later.

Within a year he was loaned out to Sporting Gijon, then signed by Hamburg and now, at just 20, he is again on loan, back in Spain at Las Palmas.

Brighton on top with win over Luongo's QPR

Brighton & Hove Albion moved back to the top of the Championship table with a 2-1 win over Massimo Luongo's Queens Park Rangers.

This stuff makes distressing reading. There are few worse downers for a football fan than getting all excited at the sight of a thrilling youngster only to see the kid wither on the vine even before he ripens.

There are a number of reasons for this in the modern game, the first of them being an aversion to risk-taking by today’s coaches.

Today coaches are far more influential than ever before in selecting their teams and how they set them up. Forever terrorised by the prospect of getting the sack they tend to play it safe and they consider it safer to select experienced players.

When Pelé was a mere child he was already scoring wonder goals at Santos. Brazil boss Vicente Feola simply had no way to leave him out of the national team even if he wanted to. The big difference is that now Pelé would still be in the youth team. Too young.

The second main reason is economic. Vast numbers of young players are given their chance at first team football in the developing world, especially South America and Africa.

The strategy is to place them in the shopwindow, give them a bit of valuable experience and then sell them in Europe.

Not all of them make it of course but many do and become superstars. Neymar, Kaká, Ronaldinho, Robinho, Luis Suarez, Samuel Eto’o come to mind.

But my conviction is that if they were Europeans they would never have been promoted.

The point being that these players went to Europe as young men but already with a good volume of experience at first team football, months and years playing against men.

Is there a lesson here for Australian players? Is there some advice for their parents and managers?

I believe there is.

Many Aussie kids go to Europe as children joining the youth squads of reputable clubs. Some break through eventually, like Massimo Luongo, Brad Smith and Chris Ikonomidis.

But not before spending seasons parked in the youth team waiting for a rare chance at promotion. Frustrated, they go out on loan as these three have done.

Would it be better for them to wait, break into an A-League team and get some senior games under their belt before making their move?

Alex Gersbach, the young left back now at Rosenborg in Norway, is a good example of a smarter route. Before he was 18 he was already a seasoned senior player, tallying up 32 games for Sydney FC.

Gersbach hungry for rapid Socceroos return

Alex Gersbach was a notable absentee from Australia's 2018 FIFA World Cup qualifiers against Iraq and UAE, but the young gun is planning a swift return to the Socceroos fold.

Now in Norway in his first season he has made 22 appearances for the Rosenborg first team. He is a seasoned European professional waiting for his next move.

But he got lucky in that his coach at Sydney FC, Graham Arnold, believed in him.

Of course for this practice to work Australian coaches have to be a bit more generous in promoting the young ones. Our club coaches are no saints either, as Ange Postecoglou often laments.

It’s wonderful to see the odd kid break through, like Riley McGree at Adelaide or Lachlan Scott at the Wanderers. But they are far too few and rare.

The technical bosses at Football Federation Australia (FFA) have often moaned about this and tried to engineer youth promotion with quotas. But the clubs wouldn’t have it. Go figure. Promoting youngsters that you can then sell overseas makes eminent business sense to me.

In my view there definitely should be a quota system in the A-League that is more generous to the kids. Left to their own devices, the coaches simply won’t give them a chance.

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blog/2017/04/17/why-league-teams-should-have-youth-quota

For 6-7 months/year the better NPL players earn enough to not need a regular job, but due to the lack of career opportunities in Australia and the need to earn something in the other 5-6 months, they opt for full time employment.  Players could be full-time pro in the 2nd division for 6 months during the A-League season, then go on-loan to NPL clubs for the other 6 months - giving them a year-round income, and in turn allowing them to train full time, having a chance to improve both fitness and technique AND freeing them up for mid-week fixtures.

I think with NSW going to 3 tiers of 14 and aligning itself with Victoria that those 2 Feds merging their top tiers for two divisions of 14 is the closest we will get in the near future before FFA gets close to a professional A2.