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df1982
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xHave the geographical spread people actually looked at a population map of Australia? 1/3 of Australians live in Greater Sydney or Melbourne.
Half the places you dummies suggest can't even keep a team in the NPL and you think they'll last longer then a season in an NSD lol. 40% actually which means 60% of the population doesn't live in Sydney or Melbourne and those 60% have as much right as anyone else to be represented in the NSD. Looking at regional population centres the places that might be able to support a club are:- Queensland could have a club in Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast. New South Wales could have a club in Newcastle and Wollongong. ACT could have a club in Canberra. Victoria could have a club in Geelong. Tasmania could have a club in Hobart. Say 5 of them get up then there is the 5 mainland state capitals to share the remaining 7 or 9 spots in the competition. Geographical spread isn't a stupid idea at all in fact the opposite is the case if we want to grow the game across the whole country. His point is still valid. 40% concentrated in two cities is one thing, 60% spread across a whole continent is something else again. Anyway, this idea that a certain place "deserves" a team is actually part of the problem.In a full pyramid, the only team that deserves anything is whoever can earn it on the pitch. I take it then that you don't think that any clubs in Sydney or Melbourne deserve to be in the NSD because of the population concentration there. When you are starting a competition and there has been no opportunity for clubs to show football merit to win a spot then it is normal to accept bids that are in the best interests of the success of the competition. What constitutes "the best interest of the competition" needs to be transparent in the bid documents so everyone can shape their bid accordingly. Once the competition is up and running and P/R is in play then football merit along with the other requirements to obtain and hold a licence will decide who is promoted. Western United and Macarthur Rams are what you get when you try and geographically 'represent' an area. Friggin basket cases both of them. Despite Melbourne Storm being in the NRL for decades they are yet to even have a miniscule toehold in Victoria besides expat NSWelshman and Bananas going to their matches. Ditto taking the State of Origin and the Wallabies to places like Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne. Waste of time that has done nothing to grow the game and has simply denied fans the opportunity to see these matches in states where people actually play the game. My take is invite bidders and take the best 12, 14, 16 teams that meet the criteria and go from there. It's inevitable that the wealthier clubs are going to have a head start and they're going to be predominantly from major centres and so what?. Given all things being equal on paper between 2 competing bidders then maybe, MAYBE, think about geographical representation. +x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Have the geographical spread people actually looked at a population map of Australia? 1/3 of Australians live in Greater Sydney or Melbourne.
Half the places you dummies suggest can't even keep a team in the NPL and you think they'll last longer then a season in an NSD lol. 40% actually which means 60% of the population doesn't live in Sydney or Melbourne and those 60% have as much right as anyone else to be represented in the NSD. Looking at regional population centres the places that might be able to support a club are:- Queensland could have a club in Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast. New South Wales could have a club in Newcastle and Wollongong. ACT could have a club in Canberra. Victoria could have a club in Geelong. Tasmania could have a club in Hobart. Say 5 of them get up then there is the 5 mainland state capitals to share the remaining 7 or 9 spots in the competition. Geographical spread isn't a stupid idea at all in fact the opposite is the case if we want to grow the game across the whole country. His point is still valid. 40% concentrated in two cities is one thing, 60% spread across a whole continent is something else again. Anyway, this idea that a certain place "deserves" a team is actually part of the problem.In a full pyramid, the only team that deserves anything is whoever can earn it on the pitch. I take it then that you don't think that any clubs in Sydney or Melbourne deserve to be in the NSD because of the population concentration there. When you are starting a competition and there has been no opportunity for clubs to show football merit to win a spot then it is normal to accept bids that are in the best interests of the success of the competition. What constitutes "the best interest of the competition" needs to be transparent in the bid documents so everyone can shape their bid accordingly. Once the competition is up and running and P/R is in play then football merit along with the other requirements to obtain and hold a licence will decide who is promoted. Western United and Macarthur Rams are what you get when you try and geographically 'represent' an area. Friggin basket cases both of them. Despite Melbourne Storm being in the NRL for decades they are yet to even have a miniscule toehold in Victoria besides expat NSWelshman and Bananas going to their matches. Ditto taking the State of Origin and the Wallabies to places like Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne. Waste of time that has done nothing to grow the game and has simply denied fans the opportunity to see these matches in states where people actually play the game. My take is invite bidders and take the best 12, 14, 16 teams that meet the criteria and go from there. It's inevitable that the wealthier clubs are going to have a head start and they're going to be predominantly from major centres and so what?. Given all things being equal on paper between 2 competing bidders then maybe, MAYBE, think about geographical representation. No bidding Page 23 "Widest Feasible Geographic spread " & qualification through
Competitive football matches That is a nonsense. Set up the competition based on the best bids and then let P/R sort it out after and short steadying period for the competition. Agreed Gyfox, those Clubs from where ever they are and not initially in the NSD, in future will have the opportunity to build their Club, invest in their Club knowing as they develop and meet the Club Licensing Criteria they have the opportunity to advance up the pyramid. It will be up to the Club and their members ambitions. Hey Arthur what are the four models being considered? A Champions League Format. 10 team National Comp 12 team National Comp 14 team National Comp Conferenced Comp with variations If the A-League is anything to go by they will start with 8 teams and take 20 years to expand all the way to 12 teams.
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df1982
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+x+xI would think that the chance to put in place a proper pyramid would include a third division. Whether that's 16 teams in each division doing a home and away season, or starting with a smaller number in the lower division is neither here nor there. If the package was presented to a marketing organization I'm sure the dollars would be there. Yeah p and r didnt work for the nsl because of the massive drop between a professional 1st div and the massive amateur lower leagues. If you had a yhird division as a buffer between a professional second and first divisions and the npl that would probably be more sustainable A third tier split between north and south divisions sounds like a good plan after the second division is bedded down. In all likelihood they would end up mainly being NPL NSW and NPL VIC, with a smattering of teams from other states, so it would be logistically manageable, while offering a pyramid-style pathway to promotion from the state leagues to the nationwide levels (NSD and A-League).
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numklpkgulftumch
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xHave the geographical spread people actually looked at a population map of Australia? 1/3 of Australians live in Greater Sydney or Melbourne.
Half the places you dummies suggest can't even keep a team in the NPL and you think they'll last longer then a season in an NSD lol. 40% actually which means 60% of the population doesn't live in Sydney or Melbourne and those 60% have as much right as anyone else to be represented in the NSD. Looking at regional population centres the places that might be able to support a club are:- Queensland could have a club in Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast. New South Wales could have a club in Newcastle and Wollongong. ACT could have a club in Canberra. Victoria could have a club in Geelong. Tasmania could have a club in Hobart. Say 5 of them get up then there is the 5 mainland state capitals to share the remaining 7 or 9 spots in the competition. Geographical spread isn't a stupid idea at all in fact the opposite is the case if we want to grow the game across the whole country. His point is still valid. 40% concentrated in two cities is one thing, 60% spread across a whole continent is something else again. Anyway, this idea that a certain place "deserves" a team is actually part of the problem.In a full pyramid, the only team that deserves anything is whoever can earn it on the pitch. I take it then that you don't think that any clubs in Sydney or Melbourne deserve to be in the NSD because of the population concentration there. When you are starting a competition and there has been no opportunity for clubs to show football merit to win a spot then it is normal to accept bids that are in the best interests of the success of the competition. What constitutes "the best interest of the competition" needs to be transparent in the bid documents so everyone can shape their bid accordingly. Once the competition is up and running and P/R is in play then football merit along with the other requirements to obtain and hold a licence will decide who is promoted. Western United and Macarthur Rams are what you get when you try and geographically 'represent' an area. Friggin basket cases both of them. Despite Melbourne Storm being in the NRL for decades they are yet to even have a miniscule toehold in Victoria besides expat NSWelshman and Bananas going to their matches. Ditto taking the State of Origin and the Wallabies to places like Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne. Waste of time that has done nothing to grow the game and has simply denied fans the opportunity to see these matches in states where people actually play the game. My take is invite bidders and take the best 12, 14, 16 teams that meet the criteria and go from there. It's inevitable that the wealthier clubs are going to have a head start and they're going to be predominantly from major centres and so what?. Given all things being equal on paper between 2 competing bidders then maybe, MAYBE, think about geographical representation. +x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Have the geographical spread people actually looked at a population map of Australia? 1/3 of Australians live in Greater Sydney or Melbourne.
Half the places you dummies suggest can't even keep a team in the NPL and you think they'll last longer then a season in an NSD lol. 40% actually which means 60% of the population doesn't live in Sydney or Melbourne and those 60% have as much right as anyone else to be represented in the NSD. Looking at regional population centres the places that might be able to support a club are:- Queensland could have a club in Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast. New South Wales could have a club in Newcastle and Wollongong. ACT could have a club in Canberra. Victoria could have a club in Geelong. Tasmania could have a club in Hobart. Say 5 of them get up then there is the 5 mainland state capitals to share the remaining 7 or 9 spots in the competition. Geographical spread isn't a stupid idea at all in fact the opposite is the case if we want to grow the game across the whole country. His point is still valid. 40% concentrated in two cities is one thing, 60% spread across a whole continent is something else again. Anyway, this idea that a certain place "deserves" a team is actually part of the problem.In a full pyramid, the only team that deserves anything is whoever can earn it on the pitch. I take it then that you don't think that any clubs in Sydney or Melbourne deserve to be in the NSD because of the population concentration there. When you are starting a competition and there has been no opportunity for clubs to show football merit to win a spot then it is normal to accept bids that are in the best interests of the success of the competition. What constitutes "the best interest of the competition" needs to be transparent in the bid documents so everyone can shape their bid accordingly. Once the competition is up and running and P/R is in play then football merit along with the other requirements to obtain and hold a licence will decide who is promoted. Western United and Macarthur Rams are what you get when you try and geographically 'represent' an area. Friggin basket cases both of them. Despite Melbourne Storm being in the NRL for decades they are yet to even have a miniscule toehold in Victoria besides expat NSWelshman and Bananas going to their matches. Ditto taking the State of Origin and the Wallabies to places like Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne. Waste of time that has done nothing to grow the game and has simply denied fans the opportunity to see these matches in states where people actually play the game. My take is invite bidders and take the best 12, 14, 16 teams that meet the criteria and go from there. It's inevitable that the wealthier clubs are going to have a head start and they're going to be predominantly from major centres and so what?. Given all things being equal on paper between 2 competing bidders then maybe, MAYBE, think about geographical representation. No bidding Page 23 "Widest Feasible Geographic spread " & qualification through
Competitive football matches That is a nonsense. Set up the competition based on the best bids and then let P/R sort it out after and short steadying period for the competition. Agreed Gyfox, those Clubs from where ever they are and not initially in the NSD, in future will have the opportunity to build their Club, invest in their Club knowing as they develop and meet the Club Licensing Criteria they have the opportunity to advance up the pyramid. It will be up to the Club and their members ambitions. Hey Arthur what are the four models being considered? A Champions League Format. 10 team National Comp 12 team National Comp 14 team National Comp Conferenced Comp with variations Hopefully the first option dies except maybe as a bridge to the 2nd div Any details on the conference comp? If 24 teams are playing that sounds a bad idea AAFC have a comparison model in their paper. Dunno if that's the exact model the FFA are considering though
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numklpkgulftumch
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xHave the geographical spread people actually looked at a population map of Australia? 1/3 of Australians live in Greater Sydney or Melbourne.
Half the places you dummies suggest can't even keep a team in the NPL and you think they'll last longer then a season in an NSD lol. 40% actually which means 60% of the population doesn't live in Sydney or Melbourne and those 60% have as much right as anyone else to be represented in the NSD. Looking at regional population centres the places that might be able to support a club are:- Queensland could have a club in Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast. New South Wales could have a club in Newcastle and Wollongong. ACT could have a club in Canberra. Victoria could have a club in Geelong. Tasmania could have a club in Hobart. Say 5 of them get up then there is the 5 mainland state capitals to share the remaining 7 or 9 spots in the competition. Geographical spread isn't a stupid idea at all in fact the opposite is the case if we want to grow the game across the whole country. His point is still valid. 40% concentrated in two cities is one thing, 60% spread across a whole continent is something else again. Anyway, this idea that a certain place "deserves" a team is actually part of the problem.In a full pyramid, the only team that deserves anything is whoever can earn it on the pitch. I take it then that you don't think that any clubs in Sydney or Melbourne deserve to be in the NSD because of the population concentration there. When you are starting a competition and there has been no opportunity for clubs to show football merit to win a spot then it is normal to accept bids that are in the best interests of the success of the competition. What constitutes "the best interest of the competition" needs to be transparent in the bid documents so everyone can shape their bid accordingly. Once the competition is up and running and P/R is in play then football merit along with the other requirements to obtain and hold a licence will decide who is promoted. Western United and Macarthur Rams are what you get when you try and geographically 'represent' an area. Friggin basket cases both of them. Despite Melbourne Storm being in the NRL for decades they are yet to even have a miniscule toehold in Victoria besides expat NSWelshman and Bananas going to their matches. Ditto taking the State of Origin and the Wallabies to places like Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne. Waste of time that has done nothing to grow the game and has simply denied fans the opportunity to see these matches in states where people actually play the game. My take is invite bidders and take the best 12, 14, 16 teams that meet the criteria and go from there. It's inevitable that the wealthier clubs are going to have a head start and they're going to be predominantly from major centres and so what?. Given all things being equal on paper between 2 competing bidders then maybe, MAYBE, think about geographical representation. +x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Have the geographical spread people actually looked at a population map of Australia? 1/3 of Australians live in Greater Sydney or Melbourne.
Half the places you dummies suggest can't even keep a team in the NPL and you think they'll last longer then a season in an NSD lol. 40% actually which means 60% of the population doesn't live in Sydney or Melbourne and those 60% have as much right as anyone else to be represented in the NSD. Looking at regional population centres the places that might be able to support a club are:- Queensland could have a club in Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast. New South Wales could have a club in Newcastle and Wollongong. ACT could have a club in Canberra. Victoria could have a club in Geelong. Tasmania could have a club in Hobart. Say 5 of them get up then there is the 5 mainland state capitals to share the remaining 7 or 9 spots in the competition. Geographical spread isn't a stupid idea at all in fact the opposite is the case if we want to grow the game across the whole country. His point is still valid. 40% concentrated in two cities is one thing, 60% spread across a whole continent is something else again. Anyway, this idea that a certain place "deserves" a team is actually part of the problem.In a full pyramid, the only team that deserves anything is whoever can earn it on the pitch. I take it then that you don't think that any clubs in Sydney or Melbourne deserve to be in the NSD because of the population concentration there. When you are starting a competition and there has been no opportunity for clubs to show football merit to win a spot then it is normal to accept bids that are in the best interests of the success of the competition. What constitutes "the best interest of the competition" needs to be transparent in the bid documents so everyone can shape their bid accordingly. Once the competition is up and running and P/R is in play then football merit along with the other requirements to obtain and hold a licence will decide who is promoted. Western United and Macarthur Rams are what you get when you try and geographically 'represent' an area. Friggin basket cases both of them. Despite Melbourne Storm being in the NRL for decades they are yet to even have a miniscule toehold in Victoria besides expat NSWelshman and Bananas going to their matches. Ditto taking the State of Origin and the Wallabies to places like Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne. Waste of time that has done nothing to grow the game and has simply denied fans the opportunity to see these matches in states where people actually play the game. My take is invite bidders and take the best 12, 14, 16 teams that meet the criteria and go from there. It's inevitable that the wealthier clubs are going to have a head start and they're going to be predominantly from major centres and so what?. Given all things being equal on paper between 2 competing bidders then maybe, MAYBE, think about geographical representation. No bidding Page 23 "Widest Feasible Geographic spread " & qualification through
Competitive football matches That is a nonsense. Set up the competition based on the best bids and then let P/R sort it out after and short steadying period for the competition. Agreed Gyfox, those Clubs from where ever they are and not initially in the NSD, in future will have the opportunity to build their Club, invest in their Club knowing as they develop and meet the Club Licensing Criteria they have the opportunity to advance up the pyramid. It will be up to the Club and their members ambitions. Hey Arthur what are the four models being considered? A Champions League Format. 10 team National Comp 12 team National Comp 14 team National Comp Conferenced Comp with variations If the A-League is anything to go by they will start with 8 teams and take 20 years to expand all the way to 12 teams. Fortunately with a P&R model The NSD would be able to expand and contract quickly, easily, and fairly as circumstances change
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RoyalDave
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+x+x+xI wouldn't be surprised if the NSD were to start without a team in Perth. Despite everything that the AAFC say it wouldn't shock me either - if a compromise needs to be made to start this thing up then culling NT and WA from the process will be first cab off the rank. Does every single State & Territory have to be represented from the get-go? I(and logic) think not, so long as they do get given berths further down the line; 'tis a non-issue. I think its important they do so that players allover the country have reasonable opportunity to participate. Otherwise participation down the track can only be earnt via winning the NPL championship thing which is a big ask and could preclude a state/territory missing out for many years. Whilst I'm sure everyone feels the NSD will be dominated by NSW and VIC teams in years to come, for all territories to have a foot in the door at the start will increase interest in the NSD nation-wide - otherwise you do risk this becoming NSL v2. WA was excluded from the original NSL, and growing up I didn't even realise Australia had a nation-wide football comp until SBS finally came to Perth and I caught an NSL match while channel surfing one day. All stake holders need to be involved from the start for this to work.
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Muz
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+x+x+x+xNot difficult really, should be done fairly by having these culturally rich clubs first, then add afew until there is pro/rel: Sydney Utd South Melbourne Adelaide City Sydney Olympic Melbourne Knights Canberra team Marconi Stallions Preston Lions Tasmanian team Apia Leichhardt Heidelberg Utd Brisbane team (Lions, Strikers or Peninsula Power) I didn't forget WA. Glory the only decent candidate, already in the A League. If you are including culturally rich clubs then Balgownie FC which has been in existence since 1883 would have to get the nod over late comers like Sydney United, Olympic, Marconi and Apia. ;) Nope, don't know Balgownie, they are not even in a position to compete in a NSD. Right, this is a lesson for the FA/APL as well, get away from Sterile football and start to think Virile football. How many of you do not admit to being familiar with Harry Michaels and Aerobics Oz Style? Infact, Number 96? My point was that football in NSW did not start with the football coup de tat in 1956/7 and its history and culture goes back to the early 1880s. Football was strong, was spread right across the community and had a long history with notable teams like Balgownie in Wollongong, Minmi in Newcastle and Granville in Sydney just to name a few, and was growing well. Elite football was a natural extension of grassroots football before it was railroaded into a migrant club controlled entity where for many years non migrants were not welcome either as players or spectators at quite a number of clubs. The coup de tat had both good and bad outcomes. Good in that the standard of football was continually raised and bad in that it set in place the divide between the mass of football players and their clubs, and elite football across the state, but especially in Sydney, that still exists today even though management of the elite competitions has changed. Can you please expand on this because, generally speaking, your NSL fanbois will tell you anyone and everyone were welcome.
Member since 2008.
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Davide82
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+x+x+x+x+xNot difficult really, should be done fairly by having these culturally rich clubs first, then add afew until there is pro/rel: Sydney Utd South Melbourne Adelaide City Sydney Olympic Melbourne Knights Canberra team Marconi Stallions Preston Lions Tasmanian team Apia Leichhardt Heidelberg Utd Brisbane team (Lions, Strikers or Peninsula Power) I didn't forget WA. Glory the only decent candidate, already in the A League. If you are including culturally rich clubs then Balgownie FC which has been in existence since 1883 would have to get the nod over late comers like Sydney United, Olympic, Marconi and Apia. ;) Nope, don't know Balgownie, they are not even in a position to compete in a NSD. Right, this is a lesson for the FA/APL as well, get away from Sterile football and start to think Virile football. How many of you do not admit to being familiar with Harry Michaels and Aerobics Oz Style? Infact, Number 96? My point was that football in NSW did not start with the football coup de tat in 1956/7 and its history and culture goes back to the early 1880s. Football was strong, was spread right across the community and had a long history with notable teams like Balgownie in Wollongong, Minmi in Newcastle and Granville in Sydney just to name a few, and was growing well. Elite football was a natural extension of grassroots football before it was railroaded into a migrant club controlled entity where for many years non migrants were not welcome either as players or spectators at quite a number of clubs. The coup de tat had both good and bad outcomes. Good in that the standard of football was continually raised and bad in that it set in place the divide between the mass of football players and their clubs, and elite football across the state, but especially in Sydney, that still exists today even though management of the elite competitions has changed. Can you please expand on this because, generally speaking, your NSL fanbois will tell you anyone and everyone were welcome. Without wanting to speak to the voracity of Gyfox's comments, he is talking about an era a fair while before many on this forum would have first hand experience of.
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grazorblade
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+x+x+x+x+xNot difficult really, should be done fairly by having these culturally rich clubs first, then add afew until there is pro/rel: Sydney Utd South Melbourne Adelaide City Sydney Olympic Melbourne Knights Canberra team Marconi Stallions Preston Lions Tasmanian team Apia Leichhardt Heidelberg Utd Brisbane team (Lions, Strikers or Peninsula Power) I didn't forget WA. Glory the only decent candidate, already in the A League. If you are including culturally rich clubs then Balgownie FC which has been in existence since 1883 would have to get the nod over late comers like Sydney United, Olympic, Marconi and Apia. ;) Nope, don't know Balgownie, they are not even in a position to compete in a NSD. Right, this is a lesson for the FA/APL as well, get away from Sterile football and start to think Virile football. How many of you do not admit to being familiar with Harry Michaels and Aerobics Oz Style? Infact, Number 96? My point was that football in NSW did not start with the football coup de tat in 1956/7 and its history and culture goes back to the early 1880s. Football was strong, was spread right across the community and had a long history with notable teams like Balgownie in Wollongong, Minmi in Newcastle and Granville in Sydney just to name a few, and was growing well. Elite football was a natural extension of grassroots football before it was railroaded into a migrant club controlled entity where for many years non migrants were not welcome either as players or spectators at quite a number of clubs. The coup de tat had both good and bad outcomes. Good in that the standard of football was continually raised and bad in that it set in place the divide between the mass of football players and their clubs, and elite football across the state, but especially in Sydney, that still exists today even though management of the elite competitions has changed. Can you please expand on this because, generally speaking, your NSL fanbois will tell you anyone and everyone were welcome. doubt they would be unwelcome these days. I wonder how many ethnic clubs have a fan ceiling over 5k though? The A league really need to hope they can get a few broad based expansion clubs to be successful before p and r comes in if football will ever be a mainstream sport here
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+xNot difficult really, should be done fairly by having these culturally rich clubs first, then add afew until there is pro/rel: Sydney Utd South Melbourne Adelaide City Sydney Olympic Melbourne Knights Canberra team Marconi Stallions Preston Lions Tasmanian team Apia Leichhardt Heidelberg Utd Brisbane team (Lions, Strikers or Peninsula Power) I didn't forget WA. Glory the only decent candidate, already in the A League. If you are including culturally rich clubs then Balgownie FC which has been in existence since 1883 would have to get the nod over late comers like Sydney United, Olympic, Marconi and Apia. ;) Nope, don't know Balgownie, they are not even in a position to compete in a NSD. Right, this is a lesson for the FA/APL as well, get away from Sterile football and start to think Virile football. How many of you do not admit to being familiar with Harry Michaels and Aerobics Oz Style? Infact, Number 96? My point was that football in NSW did not start with the football coup de tat in 1956/7 and its history and culture goes back to the early 1880s. Football was strong, was spread right across the community and had a long history with notable teams like Balgownie in Wollongong, Minmi in Newcastle and Granville in Sydney just to name a few, and was growing well. Elite football was a natural extension of grassroots football before it was railroaded into a migrant club controlled entity where for many years non migrants were not welcome either as players or spectators at quite a number of clubs. The coup de tat had both good and bad outcomes. Good in that the standard of football was continually raised and bad in that it set in place the divide between the mass of football players and their clubs, and elite football across the state, but especially in Sydney, that still exists today even though management of the elite competitions has changed. Can you please expand on this because, generally speaking, your NSL fanbois will tell you anyone and everyone were welcome. Without wanting to speak to the voracity of Gyfox's comments, he is talking about an era a fair while before many on this forum would have first hand experience of. That's fine. I'm interested in the prehistory, say pre-1970's / 1960's which might go so way to explaining why mainstream Australia never got on board with the NSL and it's precursors following that era. If that's what happened. Was the die cast back then?
Member since 2008.
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SWandP
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Can you please expand on this because, generally speaking, your NSL fanbois will tell you anyone and everyone were welcome.
I can give but a single data point: I was trialling with a Capital City "big" Club in the late 70s (had no real hope of anything, I was crap, but the coaches were really welcoming and encouraging). After training one day I was confronted by 3 angry 2nd team players who spoke (shouted) at me, but only in the language of their forefathers. A player who I had been training with raced up and interpreted. The angry chaps were accusing me of being the agent of a foreign government, interspersed with accusations of being an agent of ASIO. Death threats (genuine) were made and they left. My friend indicated it would be best if I dropped out and never attended a game even as a spectator. I took the advice. As a spectator at other Clubs I was never once rejected or spoken to in anything other than the most welcoming terms. After game visits to the Club were always brilliant no matter the ethnicity or non-ethnicity of the Club's founders and sponsors.
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grazorblade
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+xCan you please expand on this because, generally speaking, your NSL fanbois will tell you anyone and everyone were welcome.
I can give but a single data point: I was trialling with a Capital City "big" Club in the late 70s (had no real hope of anything, I was crap, but the coaches were really welcoming and encouraging). After training one day I was confronted by 3 angry 2nd team players who spoke (shouted) at me, but only in the language of their forefathers. A player who I had been training with raced up and interpreted. The angry chaps were accusing me of being the agent of a foreign government, interspersed with accusations of being an agent of ASIO. Death threats (genuine) were made and they left. My friend indicated it would be best if I dropped out and never attended a game even as a spectator. I took the advice. As a spectator at other Clubs I was never once rejected or spoken to in anything other than the most welcoming terms. After game visits to the Club were always brilliant no matter the ethnicity or non-ethnicity of the Club's founders and sponsors. thats an incredible story! I suspect that isn't as bad today though
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xCan you please expand on this because, generally speaking, your NSL fanbois will tell you anyone and everyone were welcome.
I can give but a single data point: I was trialling with a Capital City "big" Club in the late 70s (had no real hope of anything, I was crap, but the coaches were really welcoming and encouraging). After training one day I was confronted by 3 angry 2nd team players who spoke (shouted) at me, but only in the language of their forefathers. A player who I had been training with raced up and interpreted. The angry chaps were accusing me of being the agent of a foreign government, interspersed with accusations of being an agent of ASIO. Death threats (genuine) were made and they left. My friend indicated it would be best if I dropped out and never attended a game even as a spectator. I took the advice. As a spectator at other Clubs I was never once rejected or spoken to in anything other than the most welcoming terms. After game visits to the Club were always brilliant no matter the ethnicity or non-ethnicity of the Club's founders and sponsors. Wow that's an incredible, almost unbelievable, story. Sorry this happened to you and hope you didn't let this experience influence your opinion of all migrants to Australia? Could you tell me which big city club in the late 70s had players who couldn't speak English? Most of the children of European migrants would probably have had a better handle on English than their parent's mother tongues by the late 70s, so I'm curious to know? Unless you trialled for a Vietnamese, Cambodian or Thai club?? They would have been the wave of newly arrived migrants of the time who probably couldn't threaten you in English and needed a translator?
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df1982
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+x+xCan you please expand on this because, generally speaking, your NSL fanbois will tell you anyone and everyone were welcome.
I can give but a single data point: I was trialling with a Capital City "big" Club in the late 70s (had no real hope of anything, I was crap, but the coaches were really welcoming and encouraging). After training one day I was confronted by 3 angry 2nd team players who spoke (shouted) at me, but only in the language of their forefathers. A player who I had been training with raced up and interpreted. The angry chaps were accusing me of being the agent of a foreign government, interspersed with accusations of being an agent of ASIO. Death threats (genuine) were made and they left. My friend indicated it would be best if I dropped out and never attended a game even as a spectator. I took the advice. As a spectator at other Clubs I was never once rejected or spoken to in anything other than the most welcoming terms. After game visits to the Club were always brilliant no matter the ethnicity or non-ethnicity of the Club's founders and sponsors. Wow that's an incredible, almost unbelievable, story. Sorry this happened to you and hope you didn't let this experience influence your opinion of all migrants to Australia? Could you tell me which big city club in the late 70s had players who couldn't speak English? Most of the children of European migrants would probably have had a better handle on English than their parent's mother tongues by the late 70s, so I'm curious to know? Unless you trialled for a Vietnamese, Cambodian or Thai club?? They would have been the wave of newly arrived migrants of the time who probably couldn't threaten you in English and needed a translator? The way that story reads it could only have been one of the former Yugoslavian clubs, since they were caught up in all kinds of Cold War politics (Croatian clubs being founded by nationalists with right-wing associations, while Footscray JUST was effectively subsidised by the Yugoslav government due to its sponsorship by the national airline), and they had waves of migration to Australia right through to the 1990s. And in any case the poster didn't say they couldn't speak English, just that they didn't speak to him in it.
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Muz
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I trialled for a team in the Kingsford area of Sydney in 1987 or thereabouts. Being a naive country bloke who just arrived in the big smoke I just opened the whitepages (that's a telephone book youngsters) to see what was my local club not knowing that clubs in Sydney were aligned with certain ethnicities. I went to about 4 training sessions where everyone, including the coach spoke Spanish. (Yes the players could speak english but they spoke Spanish in normal conversations). Without being a standout above the other lads I was not out of place there. After about 2 weeks someone came over and in broken English told me I was cut. A couple of players came over to shake my hand and were almost embarrassed by what happened. Now that's only the one data point and only my experience but I'm guessing if I was the next Maradona I would have made the team but being a squaddie and the 'wrong' ethnicity I was out. I have no doubt players migrate towards teams aligned with their ethnicities. More's the pity. Was a weird experience for an 18, 19 year old. In the end I ended up playing with a mate from work in Gymea (Sutherland shire, Skip central) of all places. Hell of a commute from the eastern suburbs but I just wanted to play football. I realise Mono and others will say these teams and clubs happened because 'wogs' were made to not feel welcome in other Aussie teams. There's probably a bit of that too. It could also be a bit chicken and egg.
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grazorblade
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+xI trialled for a team in the Kingsford area of Sydney in 1987 or thereabouts. Being a naive country bloke who just arrived in the big smoke I just opened the whitepages (that's a telephone book youngsters) to see what was my local club not knowing that clubs in Sydney were aligned with certain ethnicities. I went to about 4 training sessions where everyone, including the coach spoke Spanish. Without being a standout above the other lads I was not out of place there. After about 2 weeks someone came over and in broken English told me I was cut. A couple of players came over to shake my hand and were almost embarrassed by what happened. Now that's only the one data point and only my experience but I'm guessing if I was the next Maradona I would have made the team but being a squaddie and the 'wrong' ethnicity I was out. I have no doubt players migrate towards teams aligned with their ethnicities. More's the pity. Was a weird experience for an 18, 19 year old. In the end I ended up playing with a mate from work in Gymea (Sutherland shire, Skip central) of all places. Hell of a commute from the eastern suburbs but I just wanted to play football. I realise Mono and others will say these teams and clubs happened because 'wogs' were made to not feel welcome in other Aussie teams. There's probably a bit of that too. It could also be a bit chicken and egg. do you think that would be an issue today with south melbourne, melbourne croatia etc?
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Davide82
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+x+xI trialled for a team in the Kingsford area of Sydney in 1987 or thereabouts. Being a naive country bloke who just arrived in the big smoke I just opened the whitepages (that's a telephone book youngsters) to see what was my local club not knowing that clubs in Sydney were aligned with certain ethnicities. I went to about 4 training sessions where everyone, including the coach spoke Spanish. Without being a standout above the other lads I was not out of place there. After about 2 weeks someone came over and in broken English told me I was cut. A couple of players came over to shake my hand and were almost embarrassed by what happened. Now that's only the one data point and only my experience but I'm guessing if I was the next Maradona I would have made the team but being a squaddie and the 'wrong' ethnicity I was out. I have no doubt players migrate towards teams aligned with their ethnicities. More's the pity. Was a weird experience for an 18, 19 year old. In the end I ended up playing with a mate from work in Gymea (Sutherland shire, Skip central) of all places. Hell of a commute from the eastern suburbs but I just wanted to play football. I realise Mono and others will say these teams and clubs happened because 'wogs' were made to not feel welcome in other Aussie teams. There's probably a bit of that too. It could also be a bit chicken and egg. do you think that would be an issue today with south melbourne, melbourne croatia etc? I really doubt it. Even if a few people around the club were ultra nationalistic I still find it hard to believe. Not at the NPL level etc Maybe maybe maybe at some of the small suburban teams
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Muz
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+x+xI trialled for a team in the Kingsford area of Sydney in 1987 or thereabouts. Being a naive country bloke who just arrived in the big smoke I just opened the whitepages (that's a telephone book youngsters) to see what was my local club not knowing that clubs in Sydney were aligned with certain ethnicities. I went to about 4 training sessions where everyone, including the coach spoke Spanish. Without being a standout above the other lads I was not out of place there. After about 2 weeks someone came over and in broken English told me I was cut. A couple of players came over to shake my hand and were almost embarrassed by what happened. Now that's only the one data point and only my experience but I'm guessing if I was the next Maradona I would have made the team but being a squaddie and the 'wrong' ethnicity I was out. I have no doubt players migrate towards teams aligned with their ethnicities. More's the pity. Was a weird experience for an 18, 19 year old. In the end I ended up playing with a mate from work in Gymea (Sutherland shire, Skip central) of all places. Hell of a commute from the eastern suburbs but I just wanted to play football. I realise Mono and others will say these teams and clubs happened because 'wogs' were made to not feel welcome in other Aussie teams. There's probably a bit of that too. It could also be a bit chicken and egg. do you think that would be an issue today with south melbourne, melbourne croatia etc? No idea. I live back in the country again where there's no ethnically based teams. (And I mean that. Literally none.) Like I said I reckon some players would migrate towards their heritage as a matter of course but others would know better than me. That was only my experience. When I lived in Darwin there were 3 Greek teams, 1 Italian team, 1 East Timorese/Portugese, 1 other I can't remember and one Aussie team. (Ethnically aligned clubs yet again.) I tried to get into the Aussie team because I wasn't one of the others but they had a full squad and weren't taking new players. (That's not to say Mono that one of the Greek sides wouldn't have taken me but just that I wasn't going to try and trial there.) So I turned up at the East Timorese side and they were 'sign him straight away'. Great blokes. So I've had both experiences. Having said all of that the year after I played for a new Greek side that entered the comp. They're mental but I made first grade and played in the grand final that year.
Member since 2008.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+xI trialled for a team in the Kingsford area of Sydney in 1987 or thereabouts. Being a naive country bloke who just arrived in the big smoke I just opened the whitepages (that's a telephone book youngsters) to see what was my local club not knowing that clubs in Sydney were aligned with certain ethnicities. I went to about 4 training sessions where everyone, including the coach spoke Spanish. Without being a standout above the other lads I was not out of place there. After about 2 weeks someone came over and in broken English told me I was cut. A couple of players came over to shake my hand and were almost embarrassed by what happened. Now that's only the one data point and only my experience but I'm guessing if I was the next Maradona I would have made the team but being a squaddie and the 'wrong' ethnicity I was out. I have no doubt players migrate towards teams aligned with their ethnicities. More's the pity. Was a weird experience for an 18, 19 year old. In the end I ended up playing with a mate from work in Gymea (Sutherland shire, Skip central) of all places. Hell of a commute from the eastern suburbs but I just wanted to play football. I realise Mono and others will say these teams and clubs happened because 'wogs' were made to not feel welcome in other Aussie teams. There's probably a bit of that too. It could also be a bit chicken and egg. do you think that would be an issue today with south melbourne, melbourne croatia etc? No idea. I live back in the country again where there's no ethnically based teams. (And I mean that. Literally none.) Like I said I reckon some players would migrate towards their heritage as a matter of course but others would know better than me. That was only my experience. When I lived in Darwin there were 3 Greek teams, 1 Italian team, 1 East Timorese/Portugese, 1 other I can't remember and one Aussie team. (Ethnically aligned clubs yet again.) I tried to get into the Aussie team because I wasn't one of the others but they had a full squad and weren't taking new players. (That's not to say Mono that one of the Greek sides wouldn't have taken me but just that I wasn't going to try and trial there.) So I turned up at the East Timorese side and they were 'sign him straight away'. Great blokes. So I've had both experiences. Having said all of that the year after I played for a new Greek side that entered the comp. They're mental but I made first grade and played in the grand final that year. Mate, I dont know. Like you, I played for "ethnically" backed teams in the 80s and 90s and yes, they were Greek surprise surprise huh? :) The thing is though, while I did have my share of Greek-Australian coaches and teammates, it was never that much of a majority... And I really dont recall ever speaking Greek on a soccer pitch or at training???? Well I guess swearing at the ref or opposition under my breath all the time but not to other players, even the Greek ones.... My favourite players of all time, Hellas legends through and through, Dougie Brown, Charlie Egan, Paul Trimboli, Stevie Blair could maybe say "Yiasou" and "souvlaki" but that was the whole extent of their "Greekness" and I can guarantee you they were worshiped down at Middle Park more than most of the ":effniks" ........
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grazorblade
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Random question: i know nsl crowd averages were around 4-5k. Were any of south melbourne, melbourne croatia, sydney croatia etc getting much more than that on average back then?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xRandom question: i know nsl crowd averages were around 4-5k. Were any of south melbourne, melbourne croatia, sydney croatia etc getting much more than that on average back then? Does it matter? That was 18 years ago my dude. Big derbies back in the NSL days used to get large (for the time and for the grounds the matches were played at) crowds but not even close to what peak Aleague did.... Its amazing what mainstream media acceptance and a professional broadcast deal can do..... More worrying is the NSL took a decade to reach the same amount of decline the Aleague dropped too over 3-4 years. NSL tried suger rush marquees, too, it tried expansion and contraction to stem the bleeding also... One thing it didnt do properly is have an open pyramid from the grassroots to the top, open and fair for all. With incentive and appropriate funding allocation to develop from the grassroots up. ..... It stared dying once its initial group of fans started walking away .... sound familiar?
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grazorblade
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+x+xRandom question: i know nsl crowd averages were around 4-5k. Were any of south melbourne, melbourne croatia, sydney croatia etc getting much more than that on average back then? Does it matter? That was 18 years ago my dude. Big derbies back in the NSL days used to get large (for the time and for the grounds the matches were played at) crowds but not even close to what peak Aleague did.... Its amazing what mainstream media acceptance and a professional broadcast deal can do..... More worrying is the NSL took a decade to reach the same amount of decline the Aleague dropped too over 3-4 years. NSL tried suger rush marquees, too, it tried expansion and contraction to stem the bleeding also... One thing it didnt do properly is have an open pyramid from the grassroots to the top, open and fair for all. With incentive and appropriate funding allocation to develop from the grassroots up. ..... It stared dying once its initial group of fans started walking away .... sound familiar? I mean I'm curious how the top clubs were doing at their peak for season crowd averages
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+xRandom question: i know nsl crowd averages were around 4-5k. Were any of south melbourne, melbourne croatia, sydney croatia etc getting much more than that on average back then? Does it matter? That was 18 years ago my dude. Big derbies back in the NSL days used to get large (for the time and for the grounds the matches were played at) crowds but not even close to what peak Aleague did.... Its amazing what mainstream media acceptance and a professional broadcast deal can do..... More worrying is the NSL took a decade to reach the same amount of decline the Aleague dropped too over 3-4 years. NSL tried suger rush marquees, too, it tried expansion and contraction to stem the bleeding also... One thing it didnt do properly is have an open pyramid from the grassroots to the top, open and fair for all. With incentive and appropriate funding allocation to develop from the grassroots up. ..... It stared dying once its initial group of fans started walking away .... sound familiar? I mean I'm curious how the top clubs were doing at their peak for season crowd averages Mate, their "peak" was 25 years ago, a time before the internet, and streaming, were the population of Australia was 6 or 7 million less than it is now. A time when the league was broadcast on fta television ( at 1am in the morning) and any mention of the word "soccer" was often followed closely by the words "go back to your own country" Where most grounds didn't have seats and the average Joe blow fan couldn't afford a flight to Brisbane or Perth because Ansett and Qantas certainly didn't do the Jetstar early bird $50 specials. Tha fact that derbies and finals got crowds better than 1/2 of Aleague games today should tell you what you need to know. f you want to do some spreadsheets , or analyse the data as some indication of who did what and when...,its pointless, as a reflection of today's reality in my opinion as once well supported clubs have been decimated by Lowys vengeance all these years but knock yourself out ozfootball,is your friend. http://www.ozfootball.net/ark/NSL/NSL.shtml
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grazorblade
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+x+x+x+xRandom question: i know nsl crowd averages were around 4-5k. Were any of south melbourne, melbourne croatia, sydney croatia etc getting much more than that on average back then? Does it matter? That was 18 years ago my dude. Big derbies back in the NSL days used to get large (for the time and for the grounds the matches were played at) crowds but not even close to what peak Aleague did.... Its amazing what mainstream media acceptance and a professional broadcast deal can do..... More worrying is the NSL took a decade to reach the same amount of decline the Aleague dropped too over 3-4 years. NSL tried suger rush marquees, too, it tried expansion and contraction to stem the bleeding also... One thing it didnt do properly is have an open pyramid from the grassroots to the top, open and fair for all. With incentive and appropriate funding allocation to develop from the grassroots up. ..... It stared dying once its initial group of fans started walking away .... sound familiar? I mean I'm curious how the top clubs were doing at their peak for season crowd averages Mate, their "peak" was 25 years ago, a time before the internet, and streaming, were the population of Australia was 6 or 7 million less than it is now. A time when the league was broadcast on fta television ( at 1am in the morning) and any mention of the word "soccer" was often followed closely by the words "go back to your own country" Where most grounds didn't have seats and the average Joe blow fan couldn't afford a flight to Brisbane or Perth because Ansett and Qantas certainly didn't do the Jetstar early bird $50 specials. Tha fact that derbies and finals got crowds better than 1/2 of Aleague games today should tell you what you need to know. f you want to do some spreadsheets , or analyse the data as some indication of who did what and when...,its pointless, as a reflection of today's reality in my opinion as once well supported clubs have been decimated by Lowys vengeance all these years but knock yourself out ozfootball,is your friend. http://www.ozfootball.net/ark/NSL/NSL.shtml I think u are imagining i am going to imply something cheers for the link
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+xRandom question: i know nsl crowd averages were around 4-5k. Were any of south melbourne, melbourne croatia, sydney croatia etc getting much more than that on average back then? Does it matter? That was 18 years ago my dude. Big derbies back in the NSL days used to get large (for the time and for the grounds the matches were played at) crowds but not even close to what peak Aleague did.... Its amazing what mainstream media acceptance and a professional broadcast deal can do..... More worrying is the NSL took a decade to reach the same amount of decline the Aleague dropped too over 3-4 years. NSL tried suger rush marquees, too, it tried expansion and contraction to stem the bleeding also... One thing it didnt do properly is have an open pyramid from the grassroots to the top, open and fair for all. With incentive and appropriate funding allocation to develop from the grassroots up. ..... It stared dying once its initial group of fans started walking away .... sound familiar? I mean I'm curious how the top clubs were doing at their peak for season crowd averages Mate, their "peak" was 25 years ago, a time before the internet, and streaming, were the population of Australia was 6 or 7 million less than it is now. A time when the league was broadcast on fta television ( at 1am in the morning) and any mention of the word "soccer" was often followed closely by the words "go back to your own country" Where most grounds didn't have seats and the average Joe blow fan couldn't afford a flight to Brisbane or Perth because Ansett and Qantas certainly didn't do the Jetstar early bird $50 specials. Tha fact that derbies and finals got crowds better than 1/2 of Aleague games today should tell you what you need to know. f you want to do some spreadsheets , or analyse the data as some indication of who did what and when...,its pointless, as a reflection of today's reality in my opinion as once well supported clubs have been decimated by Lowys vengeance all these years but knock yourself out ozfootball,is your friend. http://www.ozfootball.net/ark/NSL/NSL.shtml I think u are imagining i am going to imply something cheers for the link No, I think you have good intentions, I just dont think the past is that relevant anymore to what a NSD can be.... If you look at the link, a club like Sunshine George Cross (now Caroline Springs GC) may have averaged 3 or 4 k 30 years ago, but that was a generation ago and now a huge crowd would be in the hundreds.... Buy playing aspirational, national,football, they may once again become a mighty club but it will be a new fan base and a new generation. They would have a chance to appeal to a new, non Maltese demographic in Caroline Springs which is a lower socio economic area. Plenty of families looking for cheap entertainemnt and representation on a national stage. Other clubs like South and Knights have not only got dormant, disengaged fans, but these once passionate fans have now got families of their own that don't align with the franchises and don't also go to local soccer who might jump back on board if the chance arises to compete on the national stage again?...
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df1982
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+x+x+x+xRandom question: i know nsl crowd averages were around 4-5k. Were any of south melbourne, melbourne croatia, sydney croatia etc getting much more than that on average back then? Does it matter? That was 18 years ago my dude. Big derbies back in the NSL days used to get large (for the time and for the grounds the matches were played at) crowds but not even close to what peak Aleague did.... Its amazing what mainstream media acceptance and a professional broadcast deal can do..... More worrying is the NSL took a decade to reach the same amount of decline the Aleague dropped too over 3-4 years. NSL tried suger rush marquees, too, it tried expansion and contraction to stem the bleeding also... One thing it didnt do properly is have an open pyramid from the grassroots to the top, open and fair for all. With incentive and appropriate funding allocation to develop from the grassroots up. ..... It stared dying once its initial group of fans started walking away .... sound familiar? I mean I'm curious how the top clubs were doing at their peak for season crowd averages Mate, their "peak" was 25 years ago, a time before the internet, and streaming, were the population of Australia was 6 or 7 million less than it is now. A time when the league was broadcast on fta television ( at 1am in the morning) and any mention of the word "soccer" was often followed closely by the words "go back to your own country" Where most grounds didn't have seats and the average Joe blow fan couldn't afford a flight to Brisbane or Perth because Ansett and Qantas certainly didn't do the Jetstar early bird $50 specials. Tha fact that derbies and finals got crowds better than 1/2 of Aleague games today should tell you what you need to know. f you want to do some spreadsheets , or analyse the data as some indication of who did what and when...,its pointless, as a reflection of today's reality in my opinion as once well supported clubs have been decimated by Lowys vengeance all these years but knock yourself out ozfootball,is your friend. http://www.ozfootball.net/ark/NSL/NSL.shtml The one thing missing from Ozfootball is season crowd averages. They have pretty good records on individual crowds but nothing collated. The NSL averaged 3-4000 for most of its existence, arcing up a little higher to 5000+ in the late 1990s when Perth Glory and Northern Spirit were packing them in, then cratering again in the early 2000s. Sometimes derbies for the traditional clubs got relatively big attendances, sometimes not. I remember going to Olympic vs Marconi at Leichhardt Oval in 1996 and being dazzled by the size of the crowd, unprecedented in my experience. In reality, it was a smidge under 12,000, which is only slightly above the all-time A-League average crowd in the pre-Covid era.
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Gyfox
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+x+x+x+x+xRandom question: i know nsl crowd averages were around 4-5k. Were any of south melbourne, melbourne croatia, sydney croatia etc getting much more than that on average back then? Does it matter? That was 18 years ago my dude. Big derbies back in the NSL days used to get large (for the time and for the grounds the matches were played at) crowds but not even close to what peak Aleague did.... Its amazing what mainstream media acceptance and a professional broadcast deal can do..... More worrying is the NSL took a decade to reach the same amount of decline the Aleague dropped too over 3-4 years. NSL tried suger rush marquees, too, it tried expansion and contraction to stem the bleeding also... One thing it didnt do properly is have an open pyramid from the grassroots to the top, open and fair for all. With incentive and appropriate funding allocation to develop from the grassroots up. ..... It stared dying once its initial group of fans started walking away .... sound familiar? I mean I'm curious how the top clubs were doing at their peak for season crowd averages Mate, their "peak" was 25 years ago, a time before the internet, and streaming, were the population of Australia was 6 or 7 million less than it is now. A time when the league was broadcast on fta television ( at 1am in the morning) and any mention of the word "soccer" was often followed closely by the words "go back to your own country" Where most grounds didn't have seats and the average Joe blow fan couldn't afford a flight to Brisbane or Perth because Ansett and Qantas certainly didn't do the Jetstar early bird $50 specials. Tha fact that derbies and finals got crowds better than 1/2 of Aleague games today should tell you what you need to know. f you want to do some spreadsheets , or analyse the data as some indication of who did what and when...,its pointless, as a reflection of today's reality in my opinion as once well supported clubs have been decimated by Lowys vengeance all these years but knock yourself out ozfootball,is your friend. http://www.ozfootball.net/ark/NSL/NSL.shtml The one thing missing from Ozfootball is season crowd averages. They have pretty good records on individual crowds but nothing collated. The NSL averaged 3-4000 for most of its existence, arcing up a little higher to 5000+ in the late 1990s when Perth Glory and Northern Spirit were packing them in, then cratering again in the early 2000s. Sometimes derbies for the traditional clubs got relatively big attendances, sometimes not. I remember going to Olympic vs Marconi at Leichhardt Oval in 1996 and being dazzled by the size of the crowd, unprecedented in my experience. In reality, it was a smidge under 12,000, which is only slightly above the all-time A-League average crowd in the pre-Covid era. I did a rough spreadsheet totalling attendances for the last 3 seasons of the NSL. Season 2001/2 Average attendance 5166 Season 2002/3 Average attendance 3853 Season 2003/4 Average attendance 4121 Over those 3 seasons the average attendance for each club in descending order was: Adelaide United 12568 1 season only Perth Glory 10844 Newcastle 5957 South Melbourne 5935 Sydney Olympic 4110 Melbourne Knights 3743 Sydney United 3328 Northern Spirit 3042 Parramatta 3000 Wollongong 2999 Brisbane 2728 NZ Kingz 2586 Marconi 2549
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SWandP
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+x+xCan you please expand on this because, generally speaking, your NSL fanbois will tell you anyone and everyone were welcome.
I can give but a single data point: I was trialling with a Capital City "big" Club in the late 70s (had no real hope of anything, I was crap, but the coaches were really welcoming and encouraging). After training one day I was confronted by 3 angry 2nd team players who spoke (shouted) at me, but only in the language of their forefathers. A player who I had been training with raced up and interpreted. The angry chaps were accusing me of being the agent of a foreign government, interspersed with accusations of being an agent of ASIO. Death threats (genuine) were made and they left. My friend indicated it would be best if I dropped out and never attended a game even as a spectator. I took the advice. As a spectator at other Clubs I was never once rejected or spoken to in anything other than the most welcoming terms. After game visits to the Club were always brilliant no matter the ethnicity or non-ethnicity of the Club's founders and sponsors. Wow that's an incredible, almost unbelievable, story. Sorry this happened to you and hope you didn't let this experience influence your opinion of all migrants to Australia? Could you tell me which big city club in the late 70s had players who couldn't speak English? Most of the children of European migrants would probably have had a better handle on English than their parent's mother tongues by the late 70s, so I'm curious to know? Unless you trialled for a Vietnamese, Cambodian or Thai club?? They would have been the wave of newly arrived migrants of the time who probably couldn't threaten you in English and needed a translator? No. You have misunderstood. All the players spoke Oz English no accent normally. The three that confronted me chose not to on that one occasion. They spoke in the language of Club's founders ethnicity. At the time I was very confused but not initially alarmed at all. It was only when my training mate explained what was going on that I genuinely felt "bloody scared". One of the guys blood was really up and he was genuinely arced up. Looking back, maybe they tried to trap me into revealing that I could understand? Why? I dunno. Just had no warning, no clue, no idea and I never, ever even thought of returning. They were probably the first genuinely blood-up threat I had ever faced. Very confused, followed by shit scared, but still confused, was how I left the field. As for affecting views of recent migrants? LOL no. I happily went to every NSL and State League game (and club house) I could get too after. Never, ever had so much as anything but a big smile and welcome wherever I went. Yes, there were games I left early as a few dickheads started throwing shit around, but really, that was actually so rare in my personal experience that it wasn't a problem. The shit that went down at the U20 youth World Cup in Sydney OTOH should have seen Australia banned for decades.
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grazorblade
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+x+x+x+x+x+xRandom question: i know nsl crowd averages were around 4-5k. Were any of south melbourne, melbourne croatia, sydney croatia etc getting much more than that on average back then? Does it matter? That was 18 years ago my dude. Big derbies back in the NSL days used to get large (for the time and for the grounds the matches were played at) crowds but not even close to what peak Aleague did.... Its amazing what mainstream media acceptance and a professional broadcast deal can do..... More worrying is the NSL took a decade to reach the same amount of decline the Aleague dropped too over 3-4 years. NSL tried suger rush marquees, too, it tried expansion and contraction to stem the bleeding also... One thing it didnt do properly is have an open pyramid from the grassroots to the top, open and fair for all. With incentive and appropriate funding allocation to develop from the grassroots up. ..... It stared dying once its initial group of fans started walking away .... sound familiar? I mean I'm curious how the top clubs were doing at their peak for season crowd averages Mate, their "peak" was 25 years ago, a time before the internet, and streaming, were the population of Australia was 6 or 7 million less than it is now. A time when the league was broadcast on fta television ( at 1am in the morning) and any mention of the word "soccer" was often followed closely by the words "go back to your own country" Where most grounds didn't have seats and the average Joe blow fan couldn't afford a flight to Brisbane or Perth because Ansett and Qantas certainly didn't do the Jetstar early bird $50 specials. Tha fact that derbies and finals got crowds better than 1/2 of Aleague games today should tell you what you need to know. f you want to do some spreadsheets , or analyse the data as some indication of who did what and when...,its pointless, as a reflection of today's reality in my opinion as once well supported clubs have been decimated by Lowys vengeance all these years but knock yourself out ozfootball,is your friend. http://www.ozfootball.net/ark/NSL/NSL.shtml The one thing missing from Ozfootball is season crowd averages. They have pretty good records on individual crowds but nothing collated. The NSL averaged 3-4000 for most of its existence, arcing up a little higher to 5000+ in the late 1990s when Perth Glory and Northern Spirit were packing them in, then cratering again in the early 2000s. Sometimes derbies for the traditional clubs got relatively big attendances, sometimes not. I remember going to Olympic vs Marconi at Leichhardt Oval in 1996 and being dazzled by the size of the crowd, unprecedented in my experience. In reality, it was a smidge under 12,000, which is only slightly above the all-time A-League average crowd in the pre-Covid era. I did a rough spreadsheet totalling attendances for the last 3 seasons of the NSL. Season 2001/2 Average attendance 5166 Season 2002/3 Average attendance 3853 Season 2003/4 Average attendance 4121 Over those 3 seasons the average attendance for each club in descending order was: Adelaide United 12568 1 season only Perth Glory 10844 Newcastle 5957 South Melbourne 5935 Sydney Olympic 4110 Melbourne Knights 3743 Sydney United 3328 Northern Spirit 3042 Parramatta 3000 Wollongong 2999 Brisbane 2728 NZ Kingz 2586 Marconi 2549 oh nice! Marconi seemed a bigger club back in the early 90s, perhaps their performances were poor. If South Melbourne get around those numbers again you would have to think they should be promoted. Of course they have lost a lot of support due to the npl system, I'd be surprised if they couldn't get some of it back. The rest are really what I hope are crowd averages in a 2nd division. I think having crowds in the top division twice the crowds in the 2nd division are pretty normal around the world?
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grazorblade
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRandom question: i know nsl crowd averages were around 4-5k. Were any of south melbourne, melbourne croatia, sydney croatia etc getting much more than that on average back then? Does it matter? That was 18 years ago my dude. Big derbies back in the NSL days used to get large (for the time and for the grounds the matches were played at) crowds but not even close to what peak Aleague did.... Its amazing what mainstream media acceptance and a professional broadcast deal can do..... More worrying is the NSL took a decade to reach the same amount of decline the Aleague dropped too over 3-4 years. NSL tried suger rush marquees, too, it tried expansion and contraction to stem the bleeding also... One thing it didnt do properly is have an open pyramid from the grassroots to the top, open and fair for all. With incentive and appropriate funding allocation to develop from the grassroots up. ..... It stared dying once its initial group of fans started walking away .... sound familiar? I mean I'm curious how the top clubs were doing at their peak for season crowd averages Mate, their "peak" was 25 years ago, a time before the internet, and streaming, were the population of Australia was 6 or 7 million less than it is now. A time when the league was broadcast on fta television ( at 1am in the morning) and any mention of the word "soccer" was often followed closely by the words "go back to your own country" Where most grounds didn't have seats and the average Joe blow fan couldn't afford a flight to Brisbane or Perth because Ansett and Qantas certainly didn't do the Jetstar early bird $50 specials. Tha fact that derbies and finals got crowds better than 1/2 of Aleague games today should tell you what you need to know. f you want to do some spreadsheets , or analyse the data as some indication of who did what and when...,its pointless, as a reflection of today's reality in my opinion as once well supported clubs have been decimated by Lowys vengeance all these years but knock yourself out ozfootball,is your friend. http://www.ozfootball.net/ark/NSL/NSL.shtml The one thing missing from Ozfootball is season crowd averages. They have pretty good records on individual crowds but nothing collated. The NSL averaged 3-4000 for most of its existence, arcing up a little higher to 5000+ in the late 1990s when Perth Glory and Northern Spirit were packing them in, then cratering again in the early 2000s. Sometimes derbies for the traditional clubs got relatively big attendances, sometimes not. I remember going to Olympic vs Marconi at Leichhardt Oval in 1996 and being dazzled by the size of the crowd, unprecedented in my experience. In reality, it was a smidge under 12,000, which is only slightly above the all-time A-League average crowd in the pre-Covid era. I did a rough spreadsheet totalling attendances for the last 3 seasons of the NSL. Season 2001/2 Average attendance 5166 Season 2002/3 Average attendance 3853 Season 2003/4 Average attendance 4121 Over those 3 seasons the average attendance for each club in descending order was: Adelaide United 12568 1 season only Perth Glory 10844 Newcastle 5957 South Melbourne 5935 Sydney Olympic 4110 Melbourne Knights 3743 Sydney United 3328 Northern Spirit 3042 Parramatta 3000 Wollongong 2999 Brisbane 2728 NZ Kingz 2586 Marconi 2549 oh nice! Marconi seemed a bigger club back in the early 90s, perhaps their performances were poor. If South Melbourne get around those numbers again you would have to think they should be promoted. Of course they have lost a lot of support due to the npl system, I'd be surprised if they couldn't get some of it back. The rest are really what I hope are crowd averages in a 2nd division. I think having crowds in the top division twice the crowds in the 2nd division are pretty normal around the world? Grazor, 1st v 2nd NPL VIC on a pretty cold Saturday night at Lakeside this weekend.... Total stab in the dark but about 1800-2000 in attendance for what its worth... https://twitter.com/smfcmike/status/1548638674937450496?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
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