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df1982
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+xJJ in his Feb 12 ceo update has again iterated that the member federations are the most important stakeholder in the national second division discussions. https://m.facebook.com/FootballAUS/In my opinion, the member federations are the only hurdle for the acceptance of the AAFC model. All these aspiring NPL clubs are currently under member federation rule, generating income for their masters. Will the member federations agree to the AAFC model and allow their most significant clubs to breakaway to form their own independent league? Doubt it. Not to mention that this would likely set the ball rolling for an eventual independent 3rd division and loss of even more clubs down the track. The member federations will want a system for the second division that they are in control of. Thus this proposed NPL merged semifinal series. With the power that the member federations have in the Congress, I can't see any NSD model getting through that is not in their interests. Perhaps if the FA allowed the proposed league to be run by a board comprised of member federation representatives from each state (rather than the FA themselves), the AAFC model or something similar could get the go ahead. I suspect you're right, and that this is what is tying JJ's hands behind his back. But there was no evidence for that in what he said on that link. Still, even if the state feds are opposed, what can they really do if the AAFC steams ahead with their proposal, and JJ ends up shrugging his shoulders and saying it's a fait accompli? Would they really be willing to ignite a football civil war just to stop a handful of clubs from ascending to a nationwide league structure?
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MarkfromCroydon
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+xWhy is it all or nothing? Why not have a model that allows clubs to be semi-pro to play in the NSD, but in which they can also turn fully pro if they want to push for promotion to the A-League? There are plenty of lower leagues that work like this, e.g. the National League in the UK. Surely allowing clubs to organically shift to full-time professionalism when they judge they have sufficient resources for it is preferable to forcing them all to make the leap of faith right from the start. Because semi-professionalism is the problem. How do promising young players improve? By training and playing full time. They need to be paid full time wages and work as full time footballers to be able to reach their potential.
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someguyjc
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+x+xWhy is it all or nothing? Why not have a model that allows clubs to be semi-pro to play in the NSD, but in which they can also turn fully pro if they want to push for promotion to the A-League? There are plenty of lower leagues that work like this, e.g. the National League in the UK. Surely allowing clubs to organically shift to full-time professionalism when they judge they have sufficient resources for it is preferable to forcing them all to make the leap of faith right from the start. Because semi-professionalism is the problem. How do promising young players improve? By training and playing full time. They need to be paid full time wages and work as full time footballers to be able to reach their potential. Which doesn't actually cost that much. If there are 20 players in a squad on min wage, it would cost $900k per season. If the salary cap was set anywhere between $1-1.5m, it can be a fully pro league. Let's face it, if the FA are involved, there will be a cap. If those wages are covered via grant money from the league, it's a non issue. Throw in a marquee spot or two for the more ambitious clubs. It's not a question of whether it should be fully pro or not. It's a question of whether it's worth doing if it's not fully pro. How would it differ from the NPL if it's not fully pro.
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theFOOTBALLlover
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+x+xWhy is it all or nothing? Why not have a model that allows clubs to be semi-pro to play in the NSD, but in which they can also turn fully pro if they want to push for promotion to the A-League? There are plenty of lower leagues that work like this, e.g. the National League in the UK. Surely allowing clubs to organically shift to full-time professionalism when they judge they have sufficient resources for it is preferable to forcing them all to make the leap of faith right from the start. Because semi-professionalism is the problem. How do promising young players improve? By training and playing full time. They need to be paid full time wages and work as full time footballers to be able to reach their potential. You do realise that there are plenty of players in the A-league on scholarship contracts? Do you know what these are in terms of payment?
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bettega
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You only need to average the average salary to be considered fully professional.
What is the average salary these days? About $45,000 per annum?
Obviously youth players in the squad play for next to nothing.
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df1982
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+x+xWhy is it all or nothing? Why not have a model that allows clubs to be semi-pro to play in the NSD, but in which they can also turn fully pro if they want to push for promotion to the A-League? There are plenty of lower leagues that work like this, e.g. the National League in the UK. Surely allowing clubs to organically shift to full-time professionalism when they judge they have sufficient resources for it is preferable to forcing them all to make the leap of faith right from the start. Because semi-professionalism is the problem. How do promising young players improve? By training and playing full time. They need to be paid full time wages and work as full time footballers to be able to reach their potential. Even so, isn't it more realistic to set up a structure that would allow clubs to gradually transition to full-time professionalism when they are ready, rather than impose this is a requirement from the beginning for all 12-16 NSD clubs, many of which will be unable to afford it and go bankrupt if they try it. A fully pro NSD could just about be possible if the A-League was capped at 12 teams. Then you could have a second division focused on regional clubs like Canberra, Wollongong, Hobart, Gold Coast, NQ, Auckland, Ipswich, Penrith, with a sprinkling of the top NPL clubs (South Melbourne, Sydney Utd, etc.). But the A-League looks like it will be expanding to 16 teams regardless of the NSD, and the next four teams are likely to come from regional areas. Which means an NSD is really looking at teams 17-28/32 in the pyramid, and it will primarily be existing NPL sides. Having a division where the top teams can go fully pro while the bottom ones remains semi-pro seems the best option in this scenario.
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kaufusi
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Why do the state feds still exist? They only exist to feed off their communities and make themselves rich. Abolish them and let's let this game move forwards.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+xWhat’s clear is that the NSD has to be a measurably better league than just having top NPL clubs playing amateur football. The standard has to be such that it becomes a stepping stone to the A-League. Unless you have at least a good portion of the clubs being professional, that objective won’t be realised. Would you like Australian football to eventually have full pro/rel between Aleague, National second divison, NPL of each state and State leagues of each state: Yes No Eventually, absolutely. Finally something we can agree with... right so next step. What criteria would you suggest that clubs (as a minimum) need to meet to participate in: NSD NPL STATE LEAGUE Bear in mind that the Aleague clubs ONLY need to stump up a license fee and just recently they are being pushed to have a boys junior set-up - thats it as far as I know or if anyone else can let us know otherwise Football administtative and financial suggestions only please, Im not intetested in your views on citizenship and appartheid thanks They’re not being “pushed”, until recently AL clubs were banned from having junior Academies. State level politics mainly. Fair point, sorry for the clumsy use of language. It is one of the only conditions of their license though?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWhat’s clear is that the NSD has to be a measurably better league than just having top NPL clubs playing amateur football. The standard has to be such that it becomes a stepping stone to the A-League. Unless you have at least a good portion of the clubs being professional, that objective won’t be realised. Well thats what the NSD should be precisely and isn't that what we all can agree with ?! barring that MFCroydome. NSD is about stepping up another level from the current NPL for sure otherwsie what the bloody point. Some would would say that an amateur NSD is a good enough stepping stone. My point is that it’s not. some have actually said, X amount of Clubs should be in postion to turn Pro and another portion though viable to be in the NSD will take a little more time. As I said I agree it should be Pro, but can all 16 odd semi Pro Clubs who put their hand up be in ready for this from the get go ? Thats the big question, will depend what the final criteria set will be I guess. Are baby steps acceptable ? depends what the final budgets are ? Me, if you've put your hat in the ring, you have committed to going Pro but massive job for some I expect, grounds updated, staffing, sponserships etcetc but thats what your committing to for me. The only criteria is full professionalism. Advertise it as that, and see how many clubs commit. Then you know how big the division will be. If you get 16 clubs great. If you get 12 or 10 that's fine, just work out a fixture. Heck, even if you only get 8 clubs, they can play each other 4 times. The point is, even if you only get 8 clubs, all the really good promising young footballers will leave their current NPL club to join a club in the second division where they can be paid to play and train full time and be a professional player. That is what will cause a quantum leap in the standard of the players and the teams in the second division. So far there are 32 clubs commiting to it, is this not enough? So 32 committing to full professionalism? Thats not my understanding. I keep banging on about full professionalism because that is the only necessity. I’m one of the many people who understand this, along with people like Culina, Arnold, Didiluca etc. I reckon many NPL people also know this but are putting the interests of their clubs before the interests of the game. We don’t need 32, as I said above, even 8 clubs is enough, as long as they are fully professional. If you mean are all 32 committing to paying minimum Australian wage, I believe so. Im not in the inner circle but they way I read the AAFC report doesn't scream to me that anyone is talking about not paying players. As to whether or not they will have access to 5 days a week of training, there is a valid debate on whether or not the Aleague training regime is that much different to the top NPL clubs as is let alone if the NSD goes ahead. Again I dont know but it seems to be the ones crying out the most about money in the game aren't the players but those who stand to make money off them in some way.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+xI don’t take too much notice when Jason says something but he’s got the professionalism part right and the reasons for it make sense. Agree but only a pie in the sky optimist would believe the money is there for a second division. So the 32 clubs who have already put their money into developing a report that states there IS money available to create a second division are wrong? If they say they can fund it without any money from FFA what is the harm in letting them prove it one way or another?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+xWhat’s clear is that the NSD has to be a measurably better league than just having top NPL clubs playing amateur football. The standard has to be such that it becomes a stepping stone to the A-League. Unless you have at least a good portion of the clubs being professional, that objective won’t be realised. Would you like Australian football to eventually have full pro/rel between Aleague, National second divison, NPL of each state and State leagues of each state: Yes No Eventually, absolutely. Finally something we can agree with... right so next step. What criteria would you suggest that clubs (as a minimum) need to meet to participate in: NSD NPL STATE LEAGUE Bear in mind that the Aleague clubs ONLY need to stump up a license fee and just recently they are being pushed to have a boys junior set-up - thats it as far as I know or if anyone else can let us know otherwise Football administtative and financial suggestions only please, Im not intetested in your views on citizenship and appartheid thanks You’re a goose Con. I might be Paul but your a bigot. To your own kind no less. Answer the question below rather than constantly attacking me, its not hard. Finally something we can agree with... right so next step. What criteria would you suggest that clubs (as a minimum) need to meet to participate in: NSD NPL STATE LEAGUE Bear in mind that the Aleague clubs ONLY need to stump up a license fee and just recently they are being pushed to have a boys junior set-up - thats it as far as I know or if anyone else can let us know otherwise Football administtative and financial suggestions only please, Im not intetested in your views on citizenship and appartheid thanks
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Muz
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+x+xWhy is it all or nothing? Why not have a model that allows clubs to be semi-pro to play in the NSD, but in which they can also turn fully pro if they want to push for promotion to the A-League? There are plenty of lower leagues that work like this, e.g. the National League in the UK. Surely allowing clubs to organically shift to full-time professionalism when they judge they have sufficient resources for it is preferable to forcing them all to make the leap of faith right from the start. Because semi-professionalism is the problem. How do promising young players improve? By training and playing full time. They need to be paid full time wages and work as full time footballers to be able to reach their potential. what about semi professionals the world over? They play for beer money and if they're good enough they get signed. Why would this work any differently in Australia. Would a fully pro NSD be better? Yes. Is it 100% necessary. No. Let's farking get on with it.
Member since 2008.
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paulc
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+x+x+x+x+x+xWhat’s clear is that the NSD has to be a measurably better league than just having top NPL clubs playing amateur football. The standard has to be such that it becomes a stepping stone to the A-League. Unless you have at least a good portion of the clubs being professional, that objective won’t be realised. Would you like Australian football to eventually have full pro/rel between Aleague, National second divison, NPL of each state and State leagues of each state: Yes No Eventually, absolutely. Finally something we can agree with... right so next step. What criteria would you suggest that clubs (as a minimum) need to meet to participate in: NSD NPL STATE LEAGUE Bear in mind that the Aleague clubs ONLY need to stump up a license fee and just recently they are being pushed to have a boys junior set-up - thats it as far as I know or if anyone else can let us know otherwise Football administtative and financial suggestions only please, Im not intetested in your views on citizenship and appartheid thanks You’re a goose Con. I might be Paul but your a bigot. To your own kind no less. Answer the question below rather than constantly attacking me, its not hard. Finally something we can agree with... right so next step. What criteria would you suggest that clubs (as a minimum) need to meet to participate in: NSD NPL STATE LEAGUE Bear in mind that the Aleague clubs ONLY need to stump up a license fee and just recently they are being pushed to have a boys junior set-up - thats it as far as I know or if anyone else can let us know otherwise Football administtative and financial suggestions only please, Im not intetested in your views on citizenship and appartheid thanks And you’re the king of bigots. I’m not interested interested in your disingenuous requests.
In a resort somewhere
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWhat’s clear is that the NSD has to be a measurably better league than just having top NPL clubs playing amateur football. The standard has to be such that it becomes a stepping stone to the A-League. Unless you have at least a good portion of the clubs being professional, that objective won’t be realised. Would you like Australian football to eventually have full pro/rel between Aleague, National second divison, NPL of each state and State leagues of each state: Yes No Eventually, absolutely. Finally something we can agree with... right so next step. What criteria would you suggest that clubs (as a minimum) need to meet to participate in: NSD NPL STATE LEAGUE Bear in mind that the Aleague clubs ONLY need to stump up a license fee and just recently they are being pushed to have a boys junior set-up - thats it as far as I know or if anyone else can let us know otherwise Football administtative and financial suggestions only please, Im not intetested in your views on citizenship and appartheid thanks You’re a goose Con. I might be Paul but your a bigot. To your own kind no less. Answer the question below rather than constantly attacking me, its not hard. Finally something we can agree with... right so next step. What criteria would you suggest that clubs (as a minimum) need to meet to participate in: NSD NPL STATE LEAGUE Bear in mind that the Aleague clubs ONLY need to stump up a license fee and just recently they are being pushed to have a boys junior set-up - thats it as far as I know or if anyone else can let us know otherwise Football administtative and financial suggestions only please, Im not intetested in your views on citizenship and appartheid thanks And you’re the king of bigots. I’m not interested interested in your disingenuous requests. Absolutely NOT Paulie, I see every single ethnicity, race, religious group in this great country as having something of value to contribute and all of them SHOULD be equal and be treated with the respect they so crave. Unfortunately some in society see things otherwise.
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paulc
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWhat’s clear is that the NSD has to be a measurably better league than just having top NPL clubs playing amateur football. The standard has to be such that it becomes a stepping stone to the A-League. Unless you have at least a good portion of the clubs being professional, that objective won’t be realised. Would you like Australian football to eventually have full pro/rel between Aleague, National second divison, NPL of each state and State leagues of each state: Yes No Eventually, absolutely. Finally something we can agree with... right so next step. What criteria would you suggest that clubs (as a minimum) need to meet to participate in: NSD NPL STATE LEAGUE Bear in mind that the Aleague clubs ONLY need to stump up a license fee and just recently they are being pushed to have a boys junior set-up - thats it as far as I know or if anyone else can let us know otherwise Football administtative and financial suggestions only please, Im not intetested in your views on citizenship and appartheid thanks You’re a goose Con. I might be Paul but your a bigot. To your own kind no less. Answer the question below rather than constantly attacking me, its not hard. Finally something we can agree with... right so next step. What criteria would you suggest that clubs (as a minimum) need to meet to participate in: NSD NPL STATE LEAGUE Bear in mind that the Aleague clubs ONLY need to stump up a license fee and just recently they are being pushed to have a boys junior set-up - thats it as far as I know or if anyone else can let us know otherwise Football administtative and financial suggestions only please, Im not intetested in your views on citizenship and appartheid thanks And you’re the king of bigots. I’m not interested interested in your disingenuous requests. Absolutely NOT Paulie, I see every single ethnicity, race, religious group in this great country as having something of value to contribute and all of them SHOULD be equal and be treated with the respect they so crave. Unfortunately some in society see things otherwise. FAKE comments from you but that’s fine.
In a resort somewhere
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MarkfromCroydon
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWhat’s clear is that the NSD has to be a measurably better league than just having top NPL clubs playing amateur football. The standard has to be such that it becomes a stepping stone to the A-League. Unless you have at least a good portion of the clubs being professional, that objective won’t be realised. Well thats what the NSD should be precisely and isn't that what we all can agree with ?! barring that MFCroydome. NSD is about stepping up another level from the current NPL for sure otherwsie what the bloody point. Some would would say that an amateur NSD is a good enough stepping stone. My point is that it’s not. some have actually said, X amount of Clubs should be in postion to turn Pro and another portion though viable to be in the NSD will take a little more time. As I said I agree it should be Pro, but can all 16 odd semi Pro Clubs who put their hand up be in ready for this from the get go ? Thats the big question, will depend what the final criteria set will be I guess. Are baby steps acceptable ? depends what the final budgets are ? Me, if you've put your hat in the ring, you have committed to going Pro but massive job for some I expect, grounds updated, staffing, sponserships etcetc but thats what your committing to for me. The only criteria is full professionalism. Advertise it as that, and see how many clubs commit. Then you know how big the division will be. If you get 16 clubs great. If you get 12 or 10 that's fine, just work out a fixture. Heck, even if you only get 8 clubs, they can play each other 4 times. The point is, even if you only get 8 clubs, all the really good promising young footballers will leave their current NPL club to join a club in the second division where they can be paid to play and train full time and be a professional player. That is what will cause a quantum leap in the standard of the players and the teams in the second division. So far there are 32 clubs commiting to it, is this not enough? So 32 committing to full professionalism? Thats not my understanding. I keep banging on about full professionalism because that is the only necessity. I’m one of the many people who understand this, along with people like Culina, Arnold, Didiluca etc. I reckon many NPL people also know this but are putting the interests of their clubs before the interests of the game. We don’t need 32, as I said above, even 8 clubs is enough, as long as they are fully professional. If you mean are all 32 committing to paying minimum Australian wage, I believe so. Im not in the inner circle but they way I read the AAFC report doesn't scream to me that anyone is talking about not paying players. As to whether or not they will have access to 5 days a week of training, there is a valid debate on whether or not the Aleague training regime is that much different to the top NPL clubs as is let alone if the NSD goes ahead. Again I dont know but it seems to be the ones crying out the most about money in the game aren't the players but those who stand to make money off them in some way. If it is the case that all clubs will be paying all players at least the Australian Minimum Wage, then I'm all for it. Bring it on! I am however still concerned that the amount of training is looking at being 'reduced' or 'lesser' than the A League clubs. This is the whole point. Full time professionalism is the one thing needed for players to develop and improve.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWhat’s clear is that the NSD has to be a measurably better league than just having top NPL clubs playing amateur football. The standard has to be such that it becomes a stepping stone to the A-League. Unless you have at least a good portion of the clubs being professional, that objective won’t be realised. Well thats what the NSD should be precisely and isn't that what we all can agree with ?! barring that MFCroydome. NSD is about stepping up another level from the current NPL for sure otherwsie what the bloody point. Some would would say that an amateur NSD is a good enough stepping stone. My point is that it’s not. some have actually said, X amount of Clubs should be in postion to turn Pro and another portion though viable to be in the NSD will take a little more time. As I said I agree it should be Pro, but can all 16 odd semi Pro Clubs who put their hand up be in ready for this from the get go ? Thats the big question, will depend what the final criteria set will be I guess. Are baby steps acceptable ? depends what the final budgets are ? Me, if you've put your hat in the ring, you have committed to going Pro but massive job for some I expect, grounds updated, staffing, sponserships etcetc but thats what your committing to for me. The only criteria is full professionalism. Advertise it as that, and see how many clubs commit. Then you know how big the division will be. If you get 16 clubs great. If you get 12 or 10 that's fine, just work out a fixture. Heck, even if you only get 8 clubs, they can play each other 4 times. The point is, even if you only get 8 clubs, all the really good promising young footballers will leave their current NPL club to join a club in the second division where they can be paid to play and train full time and be a professional player. That is what will cause a quantum leap in the standard of the players and the teams in the second division. So far there are 32 clubs commiting to it, is this not enough? So 32 committing to full professionalism? Thats not my understanding. I keep banging on about full professionalism because that is the only necessity. I’m one of the many people who understand this, along with people like Culina, Arnold, Didiluca etc. I reckon many NPL people also know this but are putting the interests of their clubs before the interests of the game. We don’t need 32, as I said above, even 8 clubs is enough, as long as they are fully professional. If you mean are all 32 committing to paying minimum Australian wage, I believe so. Im not in the inner circle but they way I read the AAFC report doesn't scream to me that anyone is talking about not paying players. As to whether or not they will have access to 5 days a week of training, there is a valid debate on whether or not the Aleague training regime is that much different to the top NPL clubs as is let alone if the NSD goes ahead. Again I dont know but it seems to be the ones crying out the most about money in the game aren't the players but those who stand to make money off them in some way. If it is the case that all clubs will be paying all players at least the Australian Minimum Wage, then I'm all for it. Bring it on! I am however still concerned that the amount of training is looking at being 'reduced' or 'lesser' than the A League clubs. This is the whole point. Full time professionalism is the one thing needed for players to develop and improve. On this I cannot fault your logic at all mate. I honestly agree with you 100%. It is a bit of a chicken and the egg situation at present because in order for clubs to move into this environment they need to be able to have the finances to fund it. This will ONLY come if they are able to access revenue sources (which they believe they can through participating in a national second division) and also, as much as many don't want to admit it, they need to have a reason to do so. Extending the NPL finals to some sort of Champions League will not bring about the desired investment from existing clubs.
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df1982
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+xWhy do the state feds still exist? They only exist to feed off their communities and make themselves rich. Abolish them and let's let this game move forwards. Would love this to happen. I think Australia is the only country in the world where state federations exert so much power over the national body. Sadly, the way FA is constitutionally set up makes this almost impossible.
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Waz
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+x+xWhy do the state feds still exist? They only exist to feed off their communities and make themselves rich. Abolish them and let's let this game move forwards. Would love this to happen. I think Australia is the only country in the world where state federations exert so much power over the national body. Sadly, the way FA is constitutionally set up makes this almost impossible. Before we abolish State Feds I’d like to know what the alternative is? Having football run out of Sydney hasn’t been good for football in this country so that that’s not a palatable option??
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Footyball
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Without State Federations, Unbundling Transfer Fees and a Second Division could of occured in 2010-12. Don't need them, they are bum.
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AJF
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+x+xWhy do the state feds still exist? They only exist to feed off their communities and make themselves rich. Abolish them and let's let this game move forwards. Would love this to happen. I think Australia is the only country in the world where state federations exert so much power over the national body. Sadly, the way FA is constitutionally set up makes this almost impossible. Straya is not unique 
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df1982
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+x+x+xWhy do the state feds still exist? They only exist to feed off their communities and make themselves rich. Abolish them and let's let this game move forwards. Would love this to happen. I think Australia is the only country in the world where state federations exert so much power over the national body. Sadly, the way FA is constitutionally set up makes this almost impossible. Before we abolish State Feds I’d like to know what the alternative is? Having football run out of Sydney hasn’t been good for football in this country so that that’s not a palatable option?? Have the states exist as subordinate branches of FA, rather than autonomous federations that exert most of the political power in the game. Day to day operations can be done at a state/local level, but decision-making power should be centralised otherwise you get the kind of aimlessness, in-fighting and turf warfare that we've seen in abundance throughout the history of the game.
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bettega
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Aboloshing state feds isn't about to happen without the mother of all civil wars.
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df1982
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I know, I'm referring to what should happen, not what is likely (or even remotely possible) to happen.
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Arthur
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+x+x+xWhy do the state feds still exist? They only exist to feed off their communities and make themselves rich. Abolish them and let's let this game move forwards. Would love this to happen. I think Australia is the only country in the world where state federations exert so much power over the national body. Sadly, the way FA is constitutionally set up makes this almost impossible. Before we abolish State Feds I’d like to know what the alternative is? Having football run out of Sydney hasn’t been good for football in this country so that that’s not a palatable option?? This my concern also.
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0x3mp1r3
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Did y’all just forget about this
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
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4 years ago. https://forum.insidesport.com.au/2498372/National-second-division-is-kicking-off-with-or-without-FFA?PageIndex=1Just bumping this for shits and giggles. Basically a reminder of how Football is fucked in Australia with endless amounts of talk and absolutely no action. No I take that back we have 2 new clubs that no one cares about and no one attends. Congratulations FA.
Member since 2008.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Now do the :Western United stadium is shovel ready" one please ............lol
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bettega
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Original article written by Cockerill.
Seems an eternity ago now.
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Footballking55
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It seems the new mantra of corporate speak is to say nothing and paddle like crazy behind the scenes and to spring an "event" type announcement to garner all the hype. Its a pity that people don't just do their job and keep the "stakeholders" (for want of a better word) in the loop. Isn't that what we were told was the way to do things? I guess I'm showing my age here!
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