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paulc
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Don’t blame corporate. The clubs were going to do it with or without the FFA...............lol
In a resort somewhere
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xIt seems the new mantra of corporate speak is to say nothing and paddle like crazy behind the scenes and to spring an "event" type announcement to garner all the hype. Its a pity that people don't just do their job and keep the "stakeholders" (for want of a better word) in the loop. Isn't that what we were told was the way to do things? I guess I'm showing my age here! Meanwhile, Second division basketball in Australia are announcing naming rights partners!!!!! https://basketballvictoria.com.au/coles-express-signs-on-as-nbl1-naming-rights-partner/
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RoyalDave
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+x+xIt seems the new mantra of corporate speak is to say nothing and paddle like crazy behind the scenes and to spring an "event" type announcement to garner all the hype. Its a pity that people don't just do their job and keep the "stakeholders" (for want of a better word) in the loop. Isn't that what we were told was the way to do things? I guess I'm showing my age here! Meanwhile, Second division basketball in Australia are announcing naming rights partners!!!!! https://basketballvictoria.com.au/coles-express-signs-on-as-nbl1-naming-rights-partner/ hmmm... about as national as our NPL...
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bettega
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+x+x+xIt seems the new mantra of corporate speak is to say nothing and paddle like crazy behind the scenes and to spring an "event" type announcement to garner all the hype. Its a pity that people don't just do their job and keep the "stakeholders" (for want of a better word) in the loop. Isn't that what we were told was the way to do things? I guess I'm showing my age here! Meanwhile, Second division basketball in Australia are announcing naming rights partners!!!!! https://basketballvictoria.com.au/coles-express-signs-on-as-nbl1-naming-rights-partner/ hmmm... about as national as our NPL... Yeh, true, not too dissimilar. Looks like they no longer run the SE Aust BL. I've occasionally thought in the past that the SEABL would have been a good model for at least kick starting a 2nd division, if money was an issue. Interestingly, remember Schwarzer and some of his ex socceroo team mates canvassed the possibility of running such a conference system for a football 2nd tier. I think the idea was knocked on the head very quickly.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+xIt seems the new mantra of corporate speak is to say nothing and paddle like crazy behind the scenes and to spring an "event" type announcement to garner all the hype. Its a pity that people don't just do their job and keep the "stakeholders" (for want of a better word) in the loop. Isn't that what we were told was the way to do things? I guess I'm showing my age here! Meanwhile, Second division basketball in Australia are announcing naming rights partners!!!!! https://basketballvictoria.com.au/coles-express-signs-on-as-nbl1-naming-rights-partner/ hmmm... about as national as our NPL... I know, but for a sport that is somewhat inferior even to us in this country they at least have a sponsorship deal organised by head office for their state leagues.... NPL Vic had Playstation 4 naming rights a few years ago and rumour was that each club got an actual playstation console for their clubrooms as payment, that was it. .....
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bettega
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.8K,
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+x+x+x+xIt seems the new mantra of corporate speak is to say nothing and paddle like crazy behind the scenes and to spring an "event" type announcement to garner all the hype. Its a pity that people don't just do their job and keep the "stakeholders" (for want of a better word) in the loop. Isn't that what we were told was the way to do things? I guess I'm showing my age here! Meanwhile, Second division basketball in Australia are announcing naming rights partners!!!!! https://basketballvictoria.com.au/coles-express-signs-on-as-nbl1-naming-rights-partner/ hmmm... about as national as our NPL... I know, but for a sport that is somewhat inferior even to us in this country they at least have a sponsorship deal organised by head office for their state leagues.... NPL Vic had Playstation 4 naming rights a few years ago and rumour was that each club got an actual playstation console for their clubrooms as payment, that was it. ..... Coles is a pretty big company, so it's not a bad sponsorship to have.
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theFOOTBALLlover
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.3K,
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+x+x+x+xIt seems the new mantra of corporate speak is to say nothing and paddle like crazy behind the scenes and to spring an "event" type announcement to garner all the hype. Its a pity that people don't just do their job and keep the "stakeholders" (for want of a better word) in the loop. Isn't that what we were told was the way to do things? I guess I'm showing my age here! Meanwhile, Second division basketball in Australia are announcing naming rights partners!!!!! https://basketballvictoria.com.au/coles-express-signs-on-as-nbl1-naming-rights-partner/ hmmm... about as national as our NPL... I know, but for a sport that is somewhat inferior even to us in this country they at least have a sponsorship deal organised by head office for their state leagues.... NPL Vic had Playstation 4 naming rights a few years ago and rumour was that each club got an actual playstation console for their clubrooms as payment, that was it. ..... I think all the NPL leagues were sponsored by PS4.
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patjennings
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+x+x+x+x+xIt seems the new mantra of corporate speak is to say nothing and paddle like crazy behind the scenes and to spring an "event" type announcement to garner all the hype. Its a pity that people don't just do their job and keep the "stakeholders" (for want of a better word) in the loop. Isn't that what we were told was the way to do things? I guess I'm showing my age here! Meanwhile, Second division basketball in Australia are announcing naming rights partners!!!!! https://basketballvictoria.com.au/coles-express-signs-on-as-nbl1-naming-rights-partner/ hmmm... about as national as our NPL... I know, but for a sport that is somewhat inferior even to us in this country they at least have a sponsorship deal organised by head office for their state leagues.... NPL Vic had Playstation 4 naming rights a few years ago and rumour was that each club got an actual playstation console for their clubrooms as payment, that was it. ..... Coles is a pretty big company, so it's not a bad sponsorship to have. It is Coles Express (petrol stations) - not Coles supermarkets. Still fairly large.
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AJF
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+x+x+x+x+xIt seems the new mantra of corporate speak is to say nothing and paddle like crazy behind the scenes and to spring an "event" type announcement to garner all the hype. Its a pity that people don't just do their job and keep the "stakeholders" (for want of a better word) in the loop. Isn't that what we were told was the way to do things? I guess I'm showing my age here! Meanwhile, Second division basketball in Australia are announcing naming rights partners!!!!! https://basketballvictoria.com.au/coles-express-signs-on-as-nbl1-naming-rights-partner/ hmmm... about as national as our NPL... I know, but for a sport that is somewhat inferior even to us in this country they at least have a sponsorship deal organised by head office for their state leagues.... NPL Vic had Playstation 4 naming rights a few years ago and rumour was that each club got an actual playstation console for their clubrooms as payment, that was it. ..... I think all the NPL leagues were sponsored by PS4. Correct, FFA got $500K for the national deal (fantastic deal for Sony), none of which made it back to the states or the clubs.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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https://www.reddit.com/r/Aleague/comments/pbux91/the_fa_will_make_a_final_decision_on_the_national/MMM Adelaide (of all places) with the scoop? Obviously their sources are Frank Brunoskevic and his mate Janakan but this makes my blood boil.. Extended NPL playoffs(which weve had since 2014) IS NOT a second division...........
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GDeathe
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Told you so! but the again we all knew this was the case when we got wind when NSW planned to got rid of state finals
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x Told you so! but the again we all knew this was the case when we got wind when NSW planned to got rid of state finals Lucky JJ and Townsend are "football people" ...... farcken clowns. Hope the whole thing comes crashing down around them and their "uniqueness" ..... and they all condemned the Euro Super League the hypocrites....
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GDeathe
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+x+x Told you so! but the again we all knew this was the case when we got wind when NSW planned to got rid of state finals Lucky JJ and Townsend are "football people" ...... farcken clowns. Hope the whole thing comes crashing down around them and their "uniqueness" ..... and they all condemned the Euro Super League the hypocrites.... Agree but then again what options is there when your entire football structure is designed to be Pan-Continental rather than National
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x Told you so! but the again we all knew this was the case when we got wind when NSW planned to got rid of state finals Lucky JJ and Townsend are "football people" ...... farcken clowns. Hope the whole thing comes crashing down around them and their "uniqueness" ..... and they all condemned the Euro Super League the hypocrites.... Agree but then again what options is there when your entire football structure is designed to be Pan-Continental rather than National Gotta sell them franchise licenses at ALL costs. Monorail ...... monorail ..... monoraaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiil
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theFOOTBALLlover
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Does anyone running football in Australia know what they are doing?
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someguyjc
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It all depends on how they present their plan. If they say they are doing this odd NPL champions league thing in 2022 with a promise/plan to launch a full fledged 2nd div in 2023, then it'll be fine. However if it's more of a, "we'll do this and see how it goes and then make a decision at a undetermined point in the future", then this will be a complete waste of time. Football fans are sick and tired of everything being half-arsed in this country. In most cases, doing nothing is actually better than half-arsing something.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Ummmm ...... not sure what to make of this but .......... https://greekherald.com.au/sports/football-australia-and-aafc-reach-historical-agreement-for-the-foundation-of-second-division/?fbclid=IwAR3KkYOunEGu7Dm2SFZ2jsTTrBOcEmme6b20Y-7cBNYAbRC8CTUyw_U6PNoIf true.... I think I just got very very excited...... will hold my breath ... AGAIN .... and see what happens but word around the grounds now is that its on.........
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Monoethnic Social Club
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https://kick360.com.au/key-progress-made-in-creation-of-national-second-division/Kick 360 still pushing the extended NPL playoffs angle but AAFC are very very buoyant ...... Maybe JJ isnt a clown after all...... :)
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df1982
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It seems like the different parties at that meeting came back with very different perceptions of what was said in it. Still, here's hoping they go with an actual second division rather than the Champions League style thing the FA is proposing, or at the very least that an expanded NPL finals series in 2022 is just a prelude to a proper league in 2023.
For what it's worth, here is how I think A-League expansion and the NSD should pan out:
2022: NPL "Champions League"
2022-23: A-League expands to 14 teams (26 rounds)
2023: NSD starts with 12 teams (22 rounds)
2024: NSD expands to 13 teams (24/26 rounds)
2024-25: A-League expands to 16 teams (30 rounds)
2025: NSD expands to 14 teams (26 rounds), promotion-relegation with NPL begins
2026: A-League switches to winter (with June-July break for the World Cup), NSD expands to 15 teams (28/30 rounds)
2027: NSD expands to 16 teams (30 rounds), promotion-relegation with A-League begins
Then we have a fully integrated footballing pyramid! If the FA just announced this as the strategy for the next 5-6 years it would make a lot of people in the game very happy. NPL clubs have a pathway to promotion to the A-League, new A-League franchises for spots 13-16 know when they need to be ready, and A-League clubs have half a decade to plan so that they can avoid relegation. With 16 teams in the top tier, the chances of one of the big teams dropping down or a major city going unrepresented in the A-League are pretty minimal.
For my money, A-League expansion slots should go the following:
13-14: Canberra (new entity backed by state federation)
13-14: Gold Coast (either GCU or a new entity)
15-16: Hobart (new entity backed by state federation)
15-16 Auckland (either Auckland City or a new entity
NSD spots would be:
1-12:
Sydney Olympic
Sydney United
APIA Leichhardt
Manly United
Wollongong Wolves
South Melbourne
Heidelberg United
Melbourne Knights
Peninsula Power
Sunshine Coast Wanderers
Adelaide City
ECU Joondalup
13: Geelong (new entity)
14: Ipswich (Western Pride or a new entity)
15: Avondale or a directly promoted team
16: Marconi or a directly promoted team
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SUTHERLANDBEAR
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4 years ago this thread started, and still nae second division.
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RoyalDave
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+xIt seems like the different parties at that meeting came back with very different perceptions of what was said in it. Still, here's hoping they go with an actual second division rather than the Champions League style thing the FA is proposing, or at the very least that an expanded NPL finals series in 2022 is just a prelude to a proper league in 2023. For what it's worth, here is how I think A-League expansion and the NSD should pan out: 2022: NPL "Champions League" 2022-23: A-League expands to 14 teams (26 rounds) 2023: NSD starts with 12 teams (22 rounds) 2024: NSD expands to 13 teams (24/26 rounds) 2024-25: A-League expands to 16 teams (30 rounds) 2025: NSD expands to 14 teams (26 rounds), promotion-relegation with NPL begins 2026: A-League switches to winter (with June-July break for the World Cup), NSD expands to 15 teams (28/30 rounds) 2027: NSD expands to 16 teams (30 rounds), promotion-relegation with A-League begins Then we have a fully integrated footballing pyramid! If the FA just announced this as the strategy for the next 5-6 years it would make a lot of people in the game very happy. NPL clubs have a pathway to promotion to the A-League, new A-League franchises for spots 13-16 know when they need to be ready, and A-League clubs have half a decade to plan so that they can avoid relegation. With 16 teams in the top tier, the chances of one of the big teams dropping down or a major city going unrepresented in the A-League are pretty minimal. For my money, A-League expansion slots should go the following: 13-14: Canberra (new entity backed by state federation) 13-14: Gold Coast (either GCU or a new entity) 15-16: Hobart (new entity backed by state federation) 15-16 Auckland (either Auckland City or a new entity NSD spots would be: 1-12: Sydney Olympic Sydney United APIA Leichhardt Manly United Wollongong Wolves South Melbourne Heidelberg United Melbourne Knights Peninsula Power Sunshine Coast Wanderers Adelaide City ECU Joondalup 13: Geelong (new entity) 14: Ipswich (Western Pride or a new entity) 15: Avondale or a directly promoted team 16: Marconi or a directly promoted team If the NSD is to run concurrently with the A League it would seem more logical to me to have the same number of teams in each. Also I believe the next 4 spots in the A League should be teams promoted from the NSD in coming years - so let any existing clubs or new franchise entities do the hard yards in the NSD and get promoted. This would mean existing A League clubs would avoid relegation for a few years until we get to 16 spots - perhaps increase the A League by one team a year once we get up and running. This is all fairytale stuff though because I don't think many existing NPL clubs have the financial capacity to hemorrhage millions every year like existing A League clubs do.
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bettega
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+x+xIt seems like the different parties at that meeting came back with very different perceptions of what was said in it. Still, here's hoping they go with an actual second division rather than the Champions League style thing the FA is proposing, or at the very least that an expanded NPL finals series in 2022 is just a prelude to a proper league in 2023. For what it's worth, here is how I think A-League expansion and the NSD should pan out: 2022: NPL "Champions League" 2022-23: A-League expands to 14 teams (26 rounds) 2023: NSD starts with 12 teams (22 rounds) 2024: NSD expands to 13 teams (24/26 rounds) 2024-25: A-League expands to 16 teams (30 rounds) 2025: NSD expands to 14 teams (26 rounds), promotion-relegation with NPL begins 2026: A-League switches to winter (with June-July break for the World Cup), NSD expands to 15 teams (28/30 rounds) 2027: NSD expands to 16 teams (30 rounds), promotion-relegation with A-League begins Then we have a fully integrated footballing pyramid! If the FA just announced this as the strategy for the next 5-6 years it would make a lot of people in the game very happy. NPL clubs have a pathway to promotion to the A-League, new A-League franchises for spots 13-16 know when they need to be ready, and A-League clubs have half a decade to plan so that they can avoid relegation. With 16 teams in the top tier, the chances of one of the big teams dropping down or a major city going unrepresented in the A-League are pretty minimal. For my money, A-League expansion slots should go the following: 13-14: Canberra (new entity backed by state federation) 13-14: Gold Coast (either GCU or a new entity) 15-16: Hobart (new entity backed by state federation) 15-16 Auckland (either Auckland City or a new entity NSD spots would be: 1-12: Sydney Olympic Sydney United APIA Leichhardt Manly United Wollongong Wolves South Melbourne Heidelberg United Melbourne Knights Peninsula Power Sunshine Coast Wanderers Adelaide City ECU Joondalup 13: Geelong (new entity) 14: Ipswich (Western Pride or a new entity) 15: Avondale or a directly promoted team 16: Marconi or a directly promoted team If the NSD is to run concurrently with the A League it would seem more logical to me to have the same number of teams in each. Also I believe the next 4 spots in the A League should be teams promoted from the NSD in coming years - so let any existing clubs or new franchise entities do the hard yards in the NSD and get promoted. T People need to understand that there is absolutely zero chance of any team getting promoted. I cannot be any clearer - zero chance. Everything is set up to sell licenses. That's the business model, sell licenses to the highest bidder, as long as there is at least one person out there wanting to part with $20 million, they will continue selling (or re-selling) licenses. To add to that, there is no NSD. The language used to date suggests very strongly that whatever is created, the only connection it will have with the A-League is that some or most A-League clubs will run their reserves team in it. The third point is that 2.5% of the APL has already been sold off, and a further 10 to 15% is going to be sold off in the near future. What are the chances that the newest investors are going to forego selling licenses at $20 million a pop (or higher), there is no chance in hell that they will. No club is getting promoted, not in our life time.
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df1982
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+xIt seems like the different parties at that meeting came back with very different perceptions of what was said in it. Still, here's hoping they go with an actual second division rather than the Champions League style thing the FA is proposing, or at the very least that an expanded NPL finals series in 2022 is just a prelude to a proper league in 2023. For what it's worth, here is how I think A-League expansion and the NSD should pan out: 2022: NPL "Champions League" 2022-23: A-League expands to 14 teams (26 rounds) 2023: NSD starts with 12 teams (22 rounds) 2024: NSD expands to 13 teams (24/26 rounds) 2024-25: A-League expands to 16 teams (30 rounds) 2025: NSD expands to 14 teams (26 rounds), promotion-relegation with NPL begins 2026: A-League switches to winter (with June-July break for the World Cup), NSD expands to 15 teams (28/30 rounds) 2027: NSD expands to 16 teams (30 rounds), promotion-relegation with A-League begins Then we have a fully integrated footballing pyramid! If the FA just announced this as the strategy for the next 5-6 years it would make a lot of people in the game very happy. NPL clubs have a pathway to promotion to the A-League, new A-League franchises for spots 13-16 know when they need to be ready, and A-League clubs have half a decade to plan so that they can avoid relegation. With 16 teams in the top tier, the chances of one of the big teams dropping down or a major city going unrepresented in the A-League are pretty minimal. For my money, A-League expansion slots should go the following: 13-14: Canberra (new entity backed by state federation) 13-14: Gold Coast (either GCU or a new entity) 15-16: Hobart (new entity backed by state federation) 15-16 Auckland (either Auckland City or a new entity NSD spots would be: 1-12: Sydney Olympic Sydney United APIA Leichhardt Manly United Wollongong Wolves South Melbourne Heidelberg United Melbourne Knights Peninsula Power Sunshine Coast Wanderers Adelaide City ECU Joondalup 13: Geelong (new entity) 14: Ipswich (Western Pride or a new entity) 15: Avondale or a directly promoted team 16: Marconi or a directly promoted team If the NSD is to run concurrently with the A League it would seem more logical to me to have the same number of teams in each. Also I believe the next 4 spots in the A League should be teams promoted from the NSD in coming years - so let any existing clubs or new franchise entities do the hard yards in the NSD and get promoted. T People need to understand that there is absolutely zero chance of any team getting promoted. I cannot be any clearer - zero chance. Everything is set up to sell licenses. That's the business model, sell licenses to the highest bidder, as long as there is at least one person out there wanting to part with $20 million, they will continue selling (or re-selling) licenses. To add to that, there is no NSD. The language used to date suggests very strongly that whatever is created, the only connection it will have with the A-League is that some or most A-League clubs will run their reserves team in it. The third point is that 2.5% of the APL has already been sold off, and a further 10 to 15% is going to be sold off in the near future. What are the chances that the newest investors are going to forego selling licenses at $20 million a pop (or higher), there is no chance in hell that they will. No club is getting promoted, not in our life time. They can't sell licenses infinitely, though. It's not American sports, where leagues have 30+ teams in them. The A-League has to max out at some point, and every indication is that 16 teams is the most appropriate ceiling for A-League expansion, after that the league would start to get too diluted. That's when promotion-relegation can be viable: it would ensure variation in the teams participating in the A-League, preventing it from getting stale without the artificial sugar hit of new expansion sides, as well as giving the smaller teams lower down the ladder something to play for. Even A-League club owners are susceptible to this argument, and most accept pro-rel as part of the league's future. There is zero evidence that the NSD will be made up of A-League reserve teams, that was just a thought bubble from Graham Arnold. Most of them can't compete with the top NPL clubs anyway. They will assume a natural place on the pyramid, much as reserve teams do in Germany, Spain, etc.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+xIt seems like the different parties at that meeting came back with very different perceptions of what was said in it. Still, here's hoping they go with an actual second division rather than the Champions League style thing the FA is proposing, or at the very least that an expanded NPL finals series in 2022 is just a prelude to a proper league in 2023. For what it's worth, here is how I think A-League expansion and the NSD should pan out: 2022: NPL "Champions League" 2022-23: A-League expands to 14 teams (26 rounds) 2023: NSD starts with 12 teams (22 rounds) 2024: NSD expands to 13 teams (24/26 rounds) 2024-25: A-League expands to 16 teams (30 rounds) 2025: NSD expands to 14 teams (26 rounds), promotion-relegation with NPL begins 2026: A-League switches to winter (with June-July break for the World Cup), NSD expands to 15 teams (28/30 rounds) 2027: NSD expands to 16 teams (30 rounds), promotion-relegation with A-League begins Then we have a fully integrated footballing pyramid! If the FA just announced this as the strategy for the next 5-6 years it would make a lot of people in the game very happy. NPL clubs have a pathway to promotion to the A-League, new A-League franchises for spots 13-16 know when they need to be ready, and A-League clubs have half a decade to plan so that they can avoid relegation. With 16 teams in the top tier, the chances of one of the big teams dropping down or a major city going unrepresented in the A-League are pretty minimal. For my money, A-League expansion slots should go the following: 13-14: Canberra (new entity backed by state federation) 13-14: Gold Coast (either GCU or a new entity) 15-16: Hobart (new entity backed by state federation) 15-16 Auckland (either Auckland City or a new entity NSD spots would be: 1-12: Sydney Olympic Sydney United APIA Leichhardt Manly United Wollongong Wolves South Melbourne Heidelberg United Melbourne Knights Peninsula Power Sunshine Coast Wanderers Adelaide City ECU Joondalup 13: Geelong (new entity) 14: Ipswich (Western Pride or a new entity) 15: Avondale or a directly promoted team 16: Marconi or a directly promoted team If the NSD is to run concurrently with the A League it would seem more logical to me to have the same number of teams in each. Also I believe the next 4 spots in the A League should be teams promoted from the NSD in coming years - so let any existing clubs or new franchise entities do the hard yards in the NSD and get promoted. T People need to understand that there is absolutely zero chance of any team getting promoted. I cannot be any clearer - zero chance. Everything is set up to sell licenses. That's the business model, sell licenses to the highest bidder, as long as there is at least one person out there wanting to part with $20 million, they will continue selling (or re-selling) licenses. To add to that, there is no NSD. The language used to date suggests very strongly that whatever is created, the only connection it will have with the A-League is that some or most A-League clubs will run their reserves team in it. The third point is that 2.5% of the APL has already been sold off, and a further 10 to 15% is going to be sold off in the near future. What are the chances that the newest investors are going to forego selling licenses at $20 million a pop (or higher), there is no chance in hell that they will. No club is getting promoted, not in our life time. I am perfectly OK with this... its being called an NSD is a misnomer, I can't see the Franchise clubs wanting to play in a system where the fact they bought their right to participate in the league is threatened, and from their financial,point of view, rightly so They will NEVER accept relegation, not without a fight anyway.. I hope this NSD or NST or "Championship" or whatever they call it is the pinnacle of football leagues nationaly in Australia that EVERY club outside the Aleague can aspire to, even happy to have the Aleague NPL sides in it if the APL can't afford a proper Yleague. The Aleague can stand alone, like it wants too,, in a sanitised quarantine bubble, with all the wizz bang marketing and special effects websites for the 15-25 year olds (is this the right market demographic?) And they can perhaps sell a few more licenses to fruit shop owners or Chinese online gambling companies until they reach maximum saturation... maybe 20 "clubs" Meanwhile a National division like the AAFC propose with pro rel all the way down to state leagues across all of Australia would be something we have never had but so desperately needed.... Would make me and thousands of other fans, players, coaches, administrators, volunteers etc etc very very happy.. Do it JJ, just sign off on it and let's finally become a proper football country.
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bettega
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.8K,
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+x+x+x+xIt seems like the different parties at that meeting came back with very different perceptions of what was said in it. Still, here's hoping they go with an actual second division rather than the Champions League style thing the FA is proposing, or at the very least that an expanded NPL finals series in 2022 is just a prelude to a proper league in 2023. For what it's worth, here is how I think A-League expansion and the NSD should pan out: 2022: NPL "Champions League" 2022-23: A-League expands to 14 teams (26 rounds) 2023: NSD starts with 12 teams (22 rounds) 2024: NSD expands to 13 teams (24/26 rounds) 2024-25: A-League expands to 16 teams (30 rounds) 2025: NSD expands to 14 teams (26 rounds), promotion-relegation with NPL begins 2026: A-League switches to winter (with June-July break for the World Cup), NSD expands to 15 teams (28/30 rounds) 2027: NSD expands to 16 teams (30 rounds), promotion-relegation with A-League begins Then we have a fully integrated footballing pyramid! If the FA just announced this as the strategy for the next 5-6 years it would make a lot of people in the game very happy. NPL clubs have a pathway to promotion to the A-League, new A-League franchises for spots 13-16 know when they need to be ready, and A-League clubs have half a decade to plan so that they can avoid relegation. With 16 teams in the top tier, the chances of one of the big teams dropping down or a major city going unrepresented in the A-League are pretty minimal. For my money, A-League expansion slots should go the following: 13-14: Canberra (new entity backed by state federation) 13-14: Gold Coast (either GCU or a new entity) 15-16: Hobart (new entity backed by state federation) 15-16 Auckland (either Auckland City or a new entity NSD spots would be: 1-12: Sydney Olympic Sydney United APIA Leichhardt Manly United Wollongong Wolves South Melbourne Heidelberg United Melbourne Knights Peninsula Power Sunshine Coast Wanderers Adelaide City ECU Joondalup 13: Geelong (new entity) 14: Ipswich (Western Pride or a new entity) 15: Avondale or a directly promoted team 16: Marconi or a directly promoted team If the NSD is to run concurrently with the A League it would seem more logical to me to have the same number of teams in each. Also I believe the next 4 spots in the A League should be teams promoted from the NSD in coming years - so let any existing clubs or new franchise entities do the hard yards in the NSD and get promoted. T People need to understand that there is absolutely zero chance of any team getting promoted. I cannot be any clearer - zero chance. Everything is set up to sell licenses. That's the business model, sell licenses to the highest bidder, as long as there is at least one person out there wanting to part with $20 million, they will continue selling (or re-selling) licenses. To add to that, there is no NSD. The language used to date suggests very strongly that whatever is created, the only connection it will have with the A-League is that some or most A-League clubs will run their reserves team in it. The third point is that 2.5% of the APL has already been sold off, and a further 10 to 15% is going to be sold off in the near future. What are the chances that the newest investors are going to forego selling licenses at $20 million a pop (or higher), there is no chance in hell that they will. No club is getting promoted, not in our life time. They can't sell licenses infinitely, though. It's not American sports, where leagues have 30+ teams in them. The A-League has to max out at some point, and every indication is that 16 teams is the most appropriate ceiling for A-League expansion, after that the league would start to get too diluted. That's when promotion-relegation can be viable: it would ensure variation in the teams participating in the A-League, preventing it from getting stale without the artificial sugar hit of new expansion sides, as well as giving the smaller teams lower down the ladder something to play for. Even A-League club owners are susceptible to this argument, and most accept pro-rel as part of the league's future. The previous post, and others before him, have dreamt of the next four teams entering the A-League being teams promoted from the mythical NSD. I'm simply saying: there is absolutely zero chance of that happening (unless they have $20 million to spend on a license). The whole league has been built as a franchise system. Wealthy people buy licenses to compete in it, and the licenses can only retain value if the league is a closed shop. On top of that, new investors are buying chunks of the APL itself, they aren't going to forego their share of future license sales. The only limit to selling new licenses is when there's no one left willing to buy one for $20 million. That might happen quickly, it might take a while. When the last one buys his $20 million license, you can bet that there will be some understanding that there is no risk of relegation, and that period will have to be at least 5 years, might even be 10 years. Also, don't forget, licenses can be re-sold, has happened a few time already in the history of the A-League. With the ability to sell, and re-sell licenses, why would investors want to let any team in for free?
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df1982
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 860,
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+x+x+x+x+xIt seems like the different parties at that meeting came back with very different perceptions of what was said in it. Still, here's hoping they go with an actual second division rather than the Champions League style thing the FA is proposing, or at the very least that an expanded NPL finals series in 2022 is just a prelude to a proper league in 2023. For what it's worth, here is how I think A-League expansion and the NSD should pan out: 2022: NPL "Champions League" 2022-23: A-League expands to 14 teams (26 rounds) 2023: NSD starts with 12 teams (22 rounds) 2024: NSD expands to 13 teams (24/26 rounds) 2024-25: A-League expands to 16 teams (30 rounds) 2025: NSD expands to 14 teams (26 rounds), promotion-relegation with NPL begins 2026: A-League switches to winter (with June-July break for the World Cup), NSD expands to 15 teams (28/30 rounds) 2027: NSD expands to 16 teams (30 rounds), promotion-relegation with A-League begins Then we have a fully integrated footballing pyramid! If the FA just announced this as the strategy for the next 5-6 years it would make a lot of people in the game very happy. NPL clubs have a pathway to promotion to the A-League, new A-League franchises for spots 13-16 know when they need to be ready, and A-League clubs have half a decade to plan so that they can avoid relegation. With 16 teams in the top tier, the chances of one of the big teams dropping down or a major city going unrepresented in the A-League are pretty minimal. For my money, A-League expansion slots should go the following: 13-14: Canberra (new entity backed by state federation) 13-14: Gold Coast (either GCU or a new entity) 15-16: Hobart (new entity backed by state federation) 15-16 Auckland (either Auckland City or a new entity NSD spots would be: 1-12: Sydney Olympic Sydney United APIA Leichhardt Manly United Wollongong Wolves South Melbourne Heidelberg United Melbourne Knights Peninsula Power Sunshine Coast Wanderers Adelaide City ECU Joondalup 13: Geelong (new entity) 14: Ipswich (Western Pride or a new entity) 15: Avondale or a directly promoted team 16: Marconi or a directly promoted team If the NSD is to run concurrently with the A League it would seem more logical to me to have the same number of teams in each. Also I believe the next 4 spots in the A League should be teams promoted from the NSD in coming years - so let any existing clubs or new franchise entities do the hard yards in the NSD and get promoted. T People need to understand that there is absolutely zero chance of any team getting promoted. I cannot be any clearer - zero chance. Everything is set up to sell licenses. That's the business model, sell licenses to the highest bidder, as long as there is at least one person out there wanting to part with $20 million, they will continue selling (or re-selling) licenses. To add to that, there is no NSD. The language used to date suggests very strongly that whatever is created, the only connection it will have with the A-League is that some or most A-League clubs will run their reserves team in it. The third point is that 2.5% of the APL has already been sold off, and a further 10 to 15% is going to be sold off in the near future. What are the chances that the newest investors are going to forego selling licenses at $20 million a pop (or higher), there is no chance in hell that they will. No club is getting promoted, not in our life time. They can't sell licenses infinitely, though. It's not American sports, where leagues have 30+ teams in them. The A-League has to max out at some point, and every indication is that 16 teams is the most appropriate ceiling for A-League expansion, after that the league would start to get too diluted. That's when promotion-relegation can be viable: it would ensure variation in the teams participating in the A-League, preventing it from getting stale without the artificial sugar hit of new expansion sides, as well as giving the smaller teams lower down the ladder something to play for. Even A-League club owners are susceptible to this argument, and most accept pro-rel as part of the league's future. The previous post, and others before him, have dreamt of the next four teams entering the A-League being teams promoted from the mythical NSD. I'm simply saying: there is absolutely zero chance of that happening (unless they have $20 million to spend on a license). The whole league has been built as a franchise system. Wealthy people buy licenses to compete in it, and the licenses can only retain value if the league is a closed shop. On top of that, new investors are buying chunks of the APL itself, they aren't going to forego their share of future license sales. The only limit to selling new licenses is when there's no one left willing to buy one for $20 million. That might happen quickly, it might take a while. When the last one buys his $20 million license, you can bet that there will be some understanding that there is no risk of relegation, and that period will have to be at least 5 years, might even be 10 years. Also, don't forget, licenses can be re-sold, has happened a few time already in the history of the A-League. With the ability to sell, and re-sell licenses, why would investors want to let any team in for free? Licenses being re-sold is actually clubs being bought and sold (unless the owner just walks away from the club, as happened with the Jets). This happens all the time with clubs in pyramid-style leagues, so there's no reason it can't happen in an A-League with relegation. The prospect of relegation would just be factored into the price. On the one hand, it's more of a risky investment, but on the other hand relegation could actually incite more interest in the league with the prospect of a relegation battle every season and new teams coming up to provide variety from year to year. As long as there is a viable nationwide second division to be relegated to (which is what is being proposed), then for the smaller clubs that could even be preferable to a situation where they just hover at the bottom of the table every year and have nothing to play for in the second half of the season. That scenario becomes even more likely as the A-League grows to 16 teams and a higher percentage of teams have a remote prospect of winning the championship. So I think the most likely scenario is that the A-League will sell licenses for spots 13-16 (I agree that direct promotion from the NSD is unlikely during this time), and then adopt promotion-relegation. In any case, under the terms of the unbundling agreement the decision about adopting pro-rel is in the hands of FA, not the APL, and they will presumably be supported by FIFA. It has been confirmed multiple times (including by FIFA) that the license terms do not preclude teams from being relegated.
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RoyalDave
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 344,
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+x+x+x+xIt seems like the different parties at that meeting came back with very different perceptions of what was said in it. Still, here's hoping they go with an actual second division rather than the Champions League style thing the FA is proposing, or at the very least that an expanded NPL finals series in 2022 is just a prelude to a proper league in 2023. For what it's worth, here is how I think A-League expansion and the NSD should pan out: 2022: NPL "Champions League" 2022-23: A-League expands to 14 teams (26 rounds) 2023: NSD starts with 12 teams (22 rounds) 2024: NSD expands to 13 teams (24/26 rounds) 2024-25: A-League expands to 16 teams (30 rounds) 2025: NSD expands to 14 teams (26 rounds), promotion-relegation with NPL begins 2026: A-League switches to winter (with June-July break for the World Cup), NSD expands to 15 teams (28/30 rounds) 2027: NSD expands to 16 teams (30 rounds), promotion-relegation with A-League begins Then we have a fully integrated footballing pyramid! If the FA just announced this as the strategy for the next 5-6 years it would make a lot of people in the game very happy. NPL clubs have a pathway to promotion to the A-League, new A-League franchises for spots 13-16 know when they need to be ready, and A-League clubs have half a decade to plan so that they can avoid relegation. With 16 teams in the top tier, the chances of one of the big teams dropping down or a major city going unrepresented in the A-League are pretty minimal. For my money, A-League expansion slots should go the following: 13-14: Canberra (new entity backed by state federation) 13-14: Gold Coast (either GCU or a new entity) 15-16: Hobart (new entity backed by state federation) 15-16 Auckland (either Auckland City or a new entity NSD spots would be: 1-12: Sydney Olympic Sydney United APIA Leichhardt Manly United Wollongong Wolves South Melbourne Heidelberg United Melbourne Knights Peninsula Power Sunshine Coast Wanderers Adelaide City ECU Joondalup 13: Geelong (new entity) 14: Ipswich (Western Pride or a new entity) 15: Avondale or a directly promoted team 16: Marconi or a directly promoted team If the NSD is to run concurrently with the A League it would seem more logical to me to have the same number of teams in each. Also I believe the next 4 spots in the A League should be teams promoted from the NSD in coming years - so let any existing clubs or new franchise entities do the hard yards in the NSD and get promoted. T People need to understand that there is absolutely zero chance of any team getting promoted. I cannot be any clearer - zero chance. Everything is set up to sell licenses. That's the business model, sell licenses to the highest bidder, as long as there is at least one person out there wanting to part with $20 million, they will continue selling (or re-selling) licenses. To add to that, there is no NSD. The language used to date suggests very strongly that whatever is created, the only connection it will have with the A-League is that some or most A-League clubs will run their reserves team in it. The third point is that 2.5% of the APL has already been sold off, and a further 10 to 15% is going to be sold off in the near future. What are the chances that the newest investors are going to forego selling licenses at $20 million a pop (or higher), there is no chance in hell that they will. No club is getting promoted, not in our life time. The Aleague can stand alone, like it wants too,, in a sanitised quarantine bubble, with all the wizz bang marketing and special effects websites for the 15-25 year olds (is this the right market demographic?) No, its "the families" which ridding ourselves of ethnic monikers and active support groups is continuing to draw record crowds to the A League.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+xIt seems like the different parties at that meeting came back with very different perceptions of what was said in it. Still, here's hoping they go with an actual second division rather than the Champions League style thing the FA is proposing, or at the very least that an expanded NPL finals series in 2022 is just a prelude to a proper league in 2023. For what it's worth, here is how I think A-League expansion and the NSD should pan out: 2022: NPL "Champions League" 2022-23: A-League expands to 14 teams (26 rounds) 2023: NSD starts with 12 teams (22 rounds) 2024: NSD expands to 13 teams (24/26 rounds) 2024-25: A-League expands to 16 teams (30 rounds) 2025: NSD expands to 14 teams (26 rounds), promotion-relegation with NPL begins 2026: A-League switches to winter (with June-July break for the World Cup), NSD expands to 15 teams (28/30 rounds) 2027: NSD expands to 16 teams (30 rounds), promotion-relegation with A-League begins Then we have a fully integrated footballing pyramid! If the FA just announced this as the strategy for the next 5-6 years it would make a lot of people in the game very happy. NPL clubs have a pathway to promotion to the A-League, new A-League franchises for spots 13-16 know when they need to be ready, and A-League clubs have half a decade to plan so that they can avoid relegation. With 16 teams in the top tier, the chances of one of the big teams dropping down or a major city going unrepresented in the A-League are pretty minimal. For my money, A-League expansion slots should go the following: 13-14: Canberra (new entity backed by state federation) 13-14: Gold Coast (either GCU or a new entity) 15-16: Hobart (new entity backed by state federation) 15-16 Auckland (either Auckland City or a new entity NSD spots would be: 1-12: Sydney Olympic Sydney United APIA Leichhardt Manly United Wollongong Wolves South Melbourne Heidelberg United Melbourne Knights Peninsula Power Sunshine Coast Wanderers Adelaide City ECU Joondalup 13: Geelong (new entity) 14: Ipswich (Western Pride or a new entity) 15: Avondale or a directly promoted team 16: Marconi or a directly promoted team If the NSD is to run concurrently with the A League it would seem more logical to me to have the same number of teams in each. Also I believe the next 4 spots in the A League should be teams promoted from the NSD in coming years - so let any existing clubs or new franchise entities do the hard yards in the NSD and get promoted. T People need to understand that there is absolutely zero chance of any team getting promoted. I cannot be any clearer - zero chance. Everything is set up to sell licenses. That's the business model, sell licenses to the highest bidder, as long as there is at least one person out there wanting to part with $20 million, they will continue selling (or re-selling) licenses. To add to that, there is no NSD. The language used to date suggests very strongly that whatever is created, the only connection it will have with the A-League is that some or most A-League clubs will run their reserves team in it. The third point is that 2.5% of the APL has already been sold off, and a further 10 to 15% is going to be sold off in the near future. What are the chances that the newest investors are going to forego selling licenses at $20 million a pop (or higher), there is no chance in hell that they will. No club is getting promoted, not in our life time. The Aleague can stand alone, like it wants too,, in a sanitised quarantine bubble, with all the wizz bang marketing and special effects websites for the 15-25 year olds (is this the right market demographic?) No, its "the families" which ridding ourselves of ethnic monikers and active support groups is continuing to draw record crowds to the A League. 50K screaming men (I reckon there was no more than 5% of females in the crowd) at Ibrox yesterday seems to be the market audience in Scotland... and most of Europe/South America/Africa/Asia too.... maybe our market research and metrics counting needs to be tweaked a little? Perhaps another survey?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+xIt seems like the different parties at that meeting came back with very different perceptions of what was said in it. Still, here's hoping they go with an actual second division rather than the Champions League style thing the FA is proposing, or at the very least that an expanded NPL finals series in 2022 is just a prelude to a proper league in 2023. For what it's worth, here is how I think A-League expansion and the NSD should pan out: 2022: NPL "Champions League" 2022-23: A-League expands to 14 teams (26 rounds) 2023: NSD starts with 12 teams (22 rounds) 2024: NSD expands to 13 teams (24/26 rounds) 2024-25: A-League expands to 16 teams (30 rounds) 2025: NSD expands to 14 teams (26 rounds), promotion-relegation with NPL begins 2026: A-League switches to winter (with June-July break for the World Cup), NSD expands to 15 teams (28/30 rounds) 2027: NSD expands to 16 teams (30 rounds), promotion-relegation with A-League begins Then we have a fully integrated footballing pyramid! If the FA just announced this as the strategy for the next 5-6 years it would make a lot of people in the game very happy. NPL clubs have a pathway to promotion to the A-League, new A-League franchises for spots 13-16 know when they need to be ready, and A-League clubs have half a decade to plan so that they can avoid relegation. With 16 teams in the top tier, the chances of one of the big teams dropping down or a major city going unrepresented in the A-League are pretty minimal. For my money, A-League expansion slots should go the following: 13-14: Canberra (new entity backed by state federation) 13-14: Gold Coast (either GCU or a new entity) 15-16: Hobart (new entity backed by state federation) 15-16 Auckland (either Auckland City or a new entity NSD spots would be: 1-12: Sydney Olympic Sydney United APIA Leichhardt Manly United Wollongong Wolves South Melbourne Heidelberg United Melbourne Knights Peninsula Power Sunshine Coast Wanderers Adelaide City ECU Joondalup 13: Geelong (new entity) 14: Ipswich (Western Pride or a new entity) 15: Avondale or a directly promoted team 16: Marconi or a directly promoted team If the NSD is to run concurrently with the A League it would seem more logical to me to have the same number of teams in each. Also I believe the next 4 spots in the A League should be teams promoted from the NSD in coming years - so let any existing clubs or new franchise entities do the hard yards in the NSD and get promoted. T People need to understand that there is absolutely zero chance of any team getting promoted. I cannot be any clearer - zero chance. Everything is set up to sell licenses. That's the business model, sell licenses to the highest bidder, as long as there is at least one person out there wanting to part with $20 million, they will continue selling (or re-selling) licenses. To add to that, there is no NSD. The language used to date suggests very strongly that whatever is created, the only connection it will have with the A-League is that some or most A-League clubs will run their reserves team in it. The third point is that 2.5% of the APL has already been sold off, and a further 10 to 15% is going to be sold off in the near future. What are the chances that the newest investors are going to forego selling licenses at $20 million a pop (or higher), there is no chance in hell that they will. No club is getting promoted, not in our life time. They can't sell licenses infinitely, though. It's not American sports, where leagues have 30+ teams in them. The A-League has to max out at some point, and every indication is that 16 teams is the most appropriate ceiling for A-League expansion, after that the league would start to get too diluted. That's when promotion-relegation can be viable: it would ensure variation in the teams participating in the A-League, preventing it from getting stale without the artificial sugar hit of new expansion sides, as well as giving the smaller teams lower down the ladder something to play for. Even A-League club owners are susceptible to this argument, and most accept pro-rel as part of the league's future. The previous post, and others before him, have dreamt of the next four teams entering the A-League being teams promoted from the mythical NSD. I'm simply saying: there is absolutely zero chance of that happening (unless they have $20 million to spend on a license). The whole league has been built as a franchise system. Wealthy people buy licenses to compete in it, and the licenses can only retain value if the league is a closed shop. On top of that, new investors are buying chunks of the APL itself, they aren't going to forego their share of future license sales. The only limit to selling new licenses is when there's no one left willing to buy one for $20 million. That might happen quickly, it might take a while. When the last one buys his $20 million license, you can bet that there will be some understanding that there is no risk of relegation, and that period will have to be at least 5 years, might even be 10 years. Also, don't forget, licenses can be re-sold, has happened a few time already in the history of the A-League. With the ability to sell, and re-sell licenses, why would investors want to let any team in for free? Not dreaming any more bud. That dream is dead now...... Just like Big Bash/Sheffield Shield and AFL/AFLX we will have Football Australia Pyramid/Aleague.
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AJF
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.7K,
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