Nathan Burns needs to come back the HAL. His last performance was good for the Socceroos.

Being overlooked in Japan is not probably an indication of international football skill set. They are barely ahead  of us in qualifiers with supposedly the best domestic league in Asia.

Japan must be reappraising their curriculum ATM.

One thing that annoys me no end about Simon Hill, is that every opposition  player or coach he discusses has to have a club context of English football.  

All the players or coaches from other teams he knows about have to have played in England. The same with any Aussie player who plays club football in England. He needs to observe more Continental and South American football to see why England continuously fails in the international  arena.

Having said this, congratulations to England for winning the Under 20 World Cup, which they've  never done before. I'm not sure if it is Steve Holland or John Peacock coaching them, but this is a monumental achievement. In the past players wouldn't leave their EPL clubs to play for England U 20s.

Other than this, Hill is a good commentator.

Agree on all points!!!

I agree in regards to Milligan & Sains, however the 6 months training in Italy has not hurt Sains, but yes he has to play more games.
Liking Juric more & more, Asian players don't like playing him.
Behich, like to see get extended run, not quite sure as yet, but deserves a go. That ball that flash by him in front of goal, he was on his heels, Jason Davidson would've tap that in.

I think it has hurt Sains, against Saudi Arabia he was very poor and looked like someone who hasn't played for 6 months. Lucky in the end it didn't cost us but we can't be having these performances which can be easily resolved by actual game time in a world cup year.

This Confed's tournemant is going to be huge for players such as Milligan,Sainsbury and Kruse and if they can each put in a positive performance they'll have decent level clubs in Europe interested whether it's Championship,Bulli2 or Eredivise.
We need these guys at a much better level than they currently are leading into the WC(if we make it)
We'll see if these guy's are willing to sacrifice Asian money for quality football if not then i don't want to hear anymore crap about matching it with the best.

Milligan may be too old.

 I think he is 31 turning 32.

Agree with Decentric on Burns. Has better game awareness then Mclaren and works harder. Like Spiranovic , he needs to move somewhere where he will play regularly very quickly. It will be interesting to see how Burgess and Borello go.  If there was some hope that Curtis Good could be injury free and get meaningful game time  that would also be a boost

I've noticed it takes 3 years of playing regularly in europe before a player really improves for the roos

Behich just finished his 3rd season

With many of Maclaren's Roar goals, Borello provided the assist or was somehow involved in the build up play.

He has a very good understanding with Maclaren. It could be tough for Maclaren to play without him for a while.

Interesting.

Except that, exempting his game at right back, he has been one of the best players on the park in every game he's played for Australia in the last 2 or 3 years. He literally dominates every game he plays (except as right back), and then people just forget after the fact. 

Agreed. If kruse and spia were match fit and match sharp I'd add their names also.

I could've written this word for word! 

I've been banging on about his consistency in international football for years! Many have overlooked his performances, because he has only played in the Gulf, China, J League 2 or HAL. 

Missed the Greek games. I was in Europe. Apparently from fatigue, Milligan had a bad game against Greece in the last match.

Of the top European leagues, I could see possible interest in Milligan from Serie A (promoted club?) if he does well in Confed Cup. I think he's up to that level and would suit him. Smaller leagues like Turkey could also be interested. He'll have to be careful, though. Being on a free increases the chances of a club taking him and plonking him on the bench.

FFA deep in negotiations for Socceroos’ World Cup qualifying decider to be played in Melbourne

June 22, 2017 10:05am
by DAVID DAVUTOVIC

MELBOURNE looks set to host the Socceroos’ most important match in at least four years, the September 5 World Cup qualifier where their Russia 2018 fate will be decided.

AAMI Park is on the verge of being announced as the venue for the Socceroos v Thailand clash, which will be played just five days after Australia faces arch rival Japan away in the penultimate qualifier.

News Corp Australia understands that Football Federation Australia is deep in negotiations with the Victorian government, who are believed to have increased their financial offer to lure the Socceroos in the last 10 days.

The AAMI Park move would break Sydney’s stranglehold on key Socceroos qualifiers and be the first time Melbourne has hosted a live decider since the 2001 qualifier against Uruguay.

Speaking from Russia where the Socceroos face Cameroon in their next Confederations Cup clash on Friday morning (EST), FFA chief executive David Gallop refused to give detail on AAMI Park specifically but admitted that a decision was close.

“We are continuing negotiations for this World Cup qualifier against Thailand, which will be one of the biggest in recent Socceroos history,’’ Gallop said.

“There has been a lot of interest. Commercial considerations are important as are football ones, such as the need for a high quality pitch and travel arrangements.

“We need to give the team the best possible opportunity to win and advance to a fourth consecutive World Cup.’’

The world-class AAMI Park is believed to be one of the strong preferences of coach Ange Postecoglou and his coaching staff due to a pristine pitch, logistics plus the atmosphere that the rectangular stadium would create.

While the deal is yet to be signed off, the Socceroos staff has already started planning travel and logistics from Tokyo to Melbourne.

WA (nib Stadium) and Queensland (Suncorp Stadium) have also expressed interest in hosting the Thailand decider.

“There’s no better place for the biggest games than Melbourne — we have the best quality pitches, greatest stadiums and most passionate fans,’’ Minister for Tourism and Major Events John Eren said.

The Socceroos are currently third on goal difference from Saudi Arabia (16 points) and a point behind Japan. Saudi is away to fourth-place United Arab Emirates in its next clash, with only the top two teams from each Asian group advancing automatically to the 2018 World Cup.

Sydney has hosted the decisive games in 2005 and 2013 while the MCG hosted Australia-Japan in the final qualifier for 2009 when Pim Verbeek’s side had already secured qualification.

Fox Sports

everyone struggles in FB for the NT because the defence is so poorly organised.  midfielders dont track and get all out of position. CB's are flat or too wide or playing as auxillary fullbacks.  its a fucking swiss cheese shambles.  franjic, milligan and williams have all had stand out games as RB at times despite this.  

anyway it's a moot point now because we play wingbacks and leckie is the best we are going to get.

being an australian in italy increases those chances as well.  he should look to the holy trinity - a respectable league where he is guaranteed games in the lead up to the world cup.

One point I'd like to make is that regardless of where every player on the pitch for the Socceroos plays club football, all players on the pitch in the second half against Germany did a fair job against the  current world champions. They  have a plethora of players playing at the top clubs in the world.

Sometimes some of us  view an Aussie player playing quite well, but then feel a need to denigrate thin because he plays football in a supposedly mediocre league.

This extends to some of the TV pundits. The criticise current  players for not playing at ostensibly big clubs, but the the same players, individually and collectively,   never played as well for Australia as the current Socceroos did against Germany in a significant Socceroo fixture.

While I simply look in awe at how good Germany were, and Brazil the week before, our players stood up on Tuesday night in the second half.

Other than Luongo having a poor first half, and Cahill being uninvolved in his cameo, the rest of the team did well on a very big stage.

It is always good to see some Socceroos who've improved recently.

Notably:

Mooy - exuded class. He has improved over this last season. I was impressed  with him when he moved back to DM in the second half. At times he struggled defensively in this position  for WSW.

Behich - has become a better ball winner and delivers some crunching tackles he didn't a few years ago. He has always been good on the ball.

Rogic - we've always known he has potential, but showed his class against Germany.

Juric - hopefully it isn't  temporary good form, but he is developing predatory instincts  to add to his battering  ram qualities. 

Degenek - looks more comfortable  as a wide CB than RB. He has two recent good games in a row.

Wright - had a decent second half last night. I've never seen him as composed on the ball under pressure. Hopefully, it wasn't a fluke and he maintains this standard  of play.

The main issue I see is that we try to play a one dimensional game. It is always a slow build up and combination play through the midfield but we never seem to make the quick counter attack or mix it up with 1 or 2 long balls per half. We are too predictable.

Imo, we can take a somewhat positive approach from these two matches and try to learn some lessons.

I think, for example, that while Juric may be unpolished and wasteful in front of goal, he can be very decent when he's not the sole target up front.

The trouble is, does that suggest we should have two strikers? And, if so, who? Or should it be a bit more complex than that?

I'm not against 442 but, in this case, I reckon we go with Juric being accompanied by a false striker or fantasista-sort who floats between the lines a bit. This fantasista can draw flak away from Juric. But it requires that the fantasista, by definition, is a very dynamic and rounded attacking footballer. Imo, neither Tim Cahill nor Tom Rogic quite fit the bit. Cahill won't create much and is simply a more experienced, more clinical finisher than Tomi. Rogic is more dynamic, as he can be a playmaker and has a good goal-scoring instinct, but he lacks speed and can be marked out of the match by clever opponents.

Rogic as a fantasista + a complete striker = great

Rogic as a fantasista + Juric as a striker = somewhat containable owing, mainly, to a lack of mobility off the ball.

This calls for a sort of footballer as fantasista who is technically very good, excellent in 1 vs 1, creative, bright off-the-ball, fast and agile and with goal-scoring instinct. Very few Australians footballers consistently those traits. Probably none who have been capped recently. I think they need to look at the youth sides, A-League sides and abroad to find that. Possibly Ajdin Hrustic, but I've not watched enough of his matches. I reckon Daniel Arzani might be able to be such a fantasista, near whom, Tomi Juric would suddenly be far more threatening.

The other thing to take note of is that the skills of Tom Rogic and Aaron Mooy, their similarities, differences and lack of stamina. As they're the two best Australian footballers, it's tempting to try to put them in the same XI. It can be done and there are worse options than doing this. But, imo, I reckon this destabilises central midfield as neither of them is quick enough off-the-ball or has the defensive strengths required for them both to be in central midfield simultaneously. So, it creates a defensive weakness, and makes our attack more containable.

With those two, less is more, I reckon. Think about what causes them to excel for Celtic and Huddersfield, respectively. In part, it's the characteristics of their teammates. Again, this strengthens the argument for an Arzani type. And it makes us think of playing Rogic and Mooy in shorter bursts, separately; e.g. a half each.

Guus could swap people around use his subs very effectively. I reckon Ange should do this, too.

With three at the back, it's a real worry given personnel. I'm not sold on Bailey Wright's composure and I'm starting to agree with those who think the system requires footballers who pass well. That makes the notion of deploying Mile Jedinak there problematic. And I'm sceptical about Milos Degenek. You have to hope that Thomas Deng, Ruon Tongyik and so on really step up.

I also think there's something to be said for the option of at least a couple of central defenders who play at the same club side (if that's successful) because of the example set by Italy's Juventus dynamics. I think CitySam alluded to this.

I do not, necessarily, suggest Ange opt for this side now. But given how many problems the NT has now, he must think outside the box and go with unconventional ideas. Following on from my previous post, I think he should seriously think about moulding this type of a side for the World Cup in Russia (assuming we qualify).


---------------------------------------------------------------------Juric-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------Arzani (fantasista)----------------------------------------Mooy (regista) or Rogic (trequartista)---------------


----------------------------------------------Jedinak----------------------------------------------Irvine--------------------------------------------------------------

Gersbach--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Leckie


--------------------------Milligan-----------------------------------Deng----------------------------------------------------Williams-------------------------------


-----------------------------------------------------------------------Langerak-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Then, obviously you have a bit of depth with Tim Cahill as a striker (of sorts), Nathan Burns as fantasista (of sorts), Brad Smith for left wing-back, Ruon Tongyik for central defence and so on.

Isn't a fantasista just another name for trequerista?
I think your falling into football manager mode a bit too much, roles are determined by the way a player play's, more than a tactical approach.
The problem is finding personal to match a system, or matching a system to the personal, rather than designating roles to players as they have natural inclinations to play the way they do.
You should listen to what Arthur Papas says on the daily football show, I can't believe he isn't managing a HAL club, he gives a good insight into managing a team and implementation of tactics.
For example we lacked a presence in the middle of the park, both Mooy and Milligan sat deep while we had the ball, this is partly due to how they naturally play and our deep backline, if we're to play a possession game our backs need to push up more to compress the space and allow better passing movement and effective pressing.
I think this is the biggest difference between the Asia cup and recent performances, in the Asia cup we sat deep without the ball, but as soon as it crossed the halfway line we pressed with intent, when we had the ball our backline was on the halfway line.
Nowadays without the ball we press all over the park, it can totally disrupt our shape and unless it is effective exposes us. If we are going to press like Klopp, our backs need to press forward the whole game to make it effective, ATM our backs sit way to deep and I assume it's so we don't get caught out on the counter, but a chaotic press like we have becomes less effective.
In ball possession both Mooy and Milligan need to play some 1-2 and one needs to be advanced, as soon as the ball goes forward our backs need to push up and compress the space, helping our possession game and press.
Imo.

I thought fantasista was just a fancy name for the number 10.

As I understand it, no. There is a difference between a fantasista and a trequartista. It's a slight difference but it's the difference that would exist with Arzani as the former and Rogic as the latter. And, while, a fantasista may be regarded as a type of number ten, a number ten is not, necessarily a fantasista. Just as a regista is not the same thing as a box-to-box midfielder.

A trequartista, as I understand it, tends to be more of a playmaker who can score and plays in an advanced role. A fantasista tends to be harder to define owing to their free movement across the final third (even as a striker, now and then) and the fact that they tend to be the 'complete' attacking footballer who will be very fast on the ball. A fantasista is very difficult to mark. Footballers such as Cristiano Ronaldo and Leo Messi are often playing in that kind of role. Rogic is more of a playmaker who needn't, necessarily, be all that quick but can act as a goal scorer. These are subtle difference but differences, nonetheless.

The point about these terms is they draw attention to subtle distinctions within central midfield roles. In an ideal world, it's not necessary, as you play total football and everybody can do just about anything. But, with limited resources, you need to draw these kind of distinctions between roles and responsibilities. This, I think, is why the Italians are so clever and successful in their football.

Ah forgot about Trent Sainsbury. Obviously, put him in central defence.

Sorry I updated my post for more flavour.
As far as I see it a fantasista is just your best player, but most players who have been named that are the most effective or technical players, most are treq's.

Why do you think the Italians made different terms with trequartista and fantasista? Why not have the one term? There's a reason. And it's because there are subtle differences.

As I say, they're not dissimilar. There might just be a bloke who has all the skills of a fantasista but operates as a trequartista.

But the best footballer is not, automatically, a fantasista. Some sides do not always play a fantasista. The NT, I would argue, have not done so for ages. And such a footballer would improve team balance substantially. The thing is that a fantasista is the complete attacking footballer and operates very freely and is, therefore, harder to mark. A trequartista, while mobile and a relatively complete footballer has more of a set role (same with a regista).

Regista is a number 10 that doesn't roam much, he's like a forward fulcrum like the deep lying playmaker, but in the number 10 role.