Especially in China

Calm down.  I agree.  I said all things being equal you'd be better being stronger physically than the other bloke.

This might be true in Croydon, but for the most part this isn't true. Some* Aussie Rules fans, sure. Just like some football fans are negative towards Aussie Rules. Just like some people who like bananas are negative towards pineapples.

If Aussie Rules was so culturally ingrained and practically a religion (which it is), where everyone knows someone or has a kid playing it, which made so many negative towards other sports (which they're not), then why is Melbourne Victory the only team to ever post an average season attendance of over 20k (which it has done 10 times, btw) and why does the MCG sell out for games involving English and South American football teams? 

What you say has some merit. AFL does has over 160 years of history in Victoria and it has become embedded in the social fabric of the people who live there, but how can football be so despised if there are over 1,000,000 participants as the statistics above suggest?

Don't believe everything Les Murray tells you and don't assume Eddie Maguire speaks for an entire population. 

9 times, not 10. 

Sydney people freaking out again

Ha ha.  I notice that you more or less repeat what I said straight under my post.

Isn't there a Tasmanian in a thread somewhere that needs some more smoke blown up his arse?

10 times. Check your stats.

27,000+ in 06/07, the next best being SFC's paltry 18,000 in 12/13 season.

Victory having good attendances does not change the fact that MANY (not all, and not just some) Aussie rules fans are negative toward football. I challenge you to go to a workplace in Melbourne and ask some opinions of football. You know that MANY people who follow AFL will cane football at every chance they get. It's one of the reasons why there's so often an anti-football story in the Herald Sun or Age, they are stories catering to a LARGE part of the Melbourne audience and they get a lot of reads and a lot of negative comments. Yes I understand that some people like both sports and some are passionate about both, but you can't tell me with a straight face that there aren't many AFL (I would say a majority of them) fans that try to put football every chance they get.

Missed a word

No, there are many anti-football stories in the Herald Sun and The Age because most of the sports writers and media outlets are affiliated with the AFL and, subsequently, are paid by them to protect their interests. 

Why do mining companies in Australia not pay tax and get away with gross environmental violations? Is it because most Australians love mining or because political parties receive large donations from mining companies and therefore seek to protect their business interests?

We've just seen that football has the highest participation rate in the country and the most AFL-dominated state has the highest level of domestic league attendance! Something isn't adding up. 

Blaming anti-football rhetoric in the media for all the ills of the game is the easy option. And foolish. The game will never develop here until people stop thinking with the mindset that the game is being held back by external forces. FFS.

No, check your own stats first before claiming them as facts or learn to count, either way you are wrong. 

Victorys average attendance excluding finals.

05/06 - 14,167
06/07 - 27,728
07/08 - 26,064
08/09 - 24,516
09/10 - 20,750
10/11 - 15,058
11/12 - 19,208
12/13 - 21,885
13/14 - 21,808
14/15 - 25,388
15/16 - 23,113
16/17 - 22,008

9

x Infinity.

That being said, it pays to keep in mind how deeper/worse these attitudes prevail in Adelaide and Perth, which are less multicultural/connected to the wider world than Melb is. Case in point, this utter flog on Twitter "FrankWCE1992" who resorted to racist sh1t in the face of this very topic.

The real irony in all this is, to me, how utterly SLAVISH to the AFL's whims these fools are, regardless of how beneficial for their code in the long-run something is. Dare I say you'll never again see a Melb AFL club's supporters take to the streets en masse with collection-tins to save their club from extinction if faced with it, as was a common occurence 25+ years ago.

I think your definition of physical superiority is a bit off, unless you refer basically to strength and size. Yes, we're better than most of Asia in those respects.

Are those the same things as athleticism? No (although strength is a component, size isn't, per se). More relevant in football are things such as speed and agility. In those departments (particularly in very attack-minded roles), Australia often trails behind various Asian nations. They have footballers who are quicker and nimbler. These things constitute athleticism or 'physical superiority'.

As luck would have it, those Australian footballers who are the best natural athletes don't tend to demonstrate such high levels of technical skill or football IQ.

It has, culturally, been the case for most of Victoria, SA and WA for ages now. Unfortunately, that amounts to a fair proportion of Australia for which Aussie Rules dominates the sporting landscape. The interesting thing being that in NSW and, basically, for Queensland, it's the opposite.

Australia can be a land of great contrasts.

Depends how you're looking at things. If you're wondering if/how Australia can become a world-class football nation, then, yes, this is among the biggest issues. For most of the park, except really central midfield and central defence, it's rare to find a world-class footballer who isn't a terrific athlete (particularly in terms of speed and agility). Obviously, that's no good without technical ability and football IQ, but that doesn't somehow result in athleticism being not-particularly important.

Elite sport tends to be about the law of averages. It's a matter of producing as many footballers as possible who have the characteristics which are commonly found in world-class footballers; technique, football IQ, co-ordination, balance, focus, resilience and tenacity (and speed and agility for non central midfield/central defence roles). From there, a very small proportion will rise to the top. But the smaller the general pool becomes, the less chance of producing those type of footballers.


Phenomena are rarely explained by single causes. Usually, it's because of various reasons. You're absolutely right that Australia's trailing behind those nations in terms of technical and tactical things is the biggest problem. But do you seriously think athleticism plays no part? When Arjen Robben tore Australia apart in Brazil, do you think athleticism didn't play a part? Do you think dribbling at speed and with close control doesn't require athleticism? It sure does. Speed, agility and co-ordination are crucial to dribbling and 1 vs 1s. They are athletic traits.

The reality is that for central midfield and central defence, athleticism is less important. I think this is because there's far less space. So it's more in the vein of 'pure' football. As such, some of the best in the world haven't been all that athletic; Andrea Pirlo, Paul Scholes, Andres Iniesta, Xavi Hernandez, Luka Modric, etc.

But for strikers, wingers, fantasisti, wing-backs/fullbacks and goalkeepers, it's rare for there to be a world-class footballer who isn't fast and agile.

How many of these fellas aren't (or weren't) fast and agile? Cristiano Ronaldo, Leo Messi, Gareth Bale, Antoine Griezmann, Arjen Robben, Luis Suarez, Neymar, Philippe Coutinho, Thierry Henry and so on.

Hazard, Neymar, Messi are all super athletes. Very quick and agile. Yes, they wouldn't be anywhere near their level without their technique and the way they read play. But that doesn't somehow render their athletic ability not particularly important. We can add Cristiano Ronaldo, Thierry Henry, Arjen Robben, Luis Suarez, Willian, Jordi Alba, Dani Alves, Gianluigi Buffon, Manuel Neuer, Fabian Barthez and countless others to that list. Great athletes who play up front, out wide, as fantasisti or as goalkeepers.

For a footballer to be world-class in those areas and not be a terrific athlete is very much the exception.

In contrast, in central midfield and central defence, athleticism is less prized as football IQ becomes even more important owing to such limited space. That's why you find guys who mightn't be the best athletes among the best in the world in those positions; Luka Modric, Andrea Pirlo, Andres Iniesta, Xavi Hernandez, Paul Scholes.

But it's too simplistic to say only one thing matters for success in football. It's more nuanced than that.

We were talking about strength and size in this instance and it is currently the reason we will have a chance at qualifying for the world cup because we have bullied every Asian team on set pieces to save our skins.

I know The haters like to to call Football,Soccer,but it must hurt them when focus is on the biggest sports event in the world,namely the FOOTBALL WORLD CUP and not the Soccer World Cup.
The other day I was watching ABC sports and the sports reporter kept talking about Football and every time the newsman spoke he called it Soccer.It was quite funny.Neither man would back down.

With the utmost respect, this post suggests a misunderstanding of the concepts of skill, technique and athleticism.

Relative to sports such as football, cricket and tennis, Aussie Rules does not set so much store by technique (or tactical awareness). But does that mean that the best AFL footballers aren't skillful? No. If anything, it compensates for this by putting additional focus on things such as skill and athleticism. That's why it's not unheard of for someone who has never played Aussie Rules to take it up as an adult and be able to play (with success) in the AFL. It relies on natural skills rather than the kind of technical ability and tactical awareness which are almost always only gained through hours and hours of practice from a fairly young age.

In a nutshell, skill in AFL is based almost entirely on athletic ability. In football, it varies. In some parts of the park, skill is based almost entirely on technical ability and tactical awareness. In other parts of the park, it's based on a combination of technical ability, tactical awareness and athletic ability (particularly speed and agility).

The thing is that heaps of the best footballers have it all.

And the AFL does get a disproportionately large amount of the best athletes in Australia (or gets near them). Imagine if AFL footballers such as Cyril Rioli, Leroy Jetta, Patrick Dangerfield, Sam Mitchell and Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti had grown up in households where football was the most popular sport. Imagine if they had been brought up playing football from a young age and coached very well. These are some absolutely world-class athletes and (as AFL footballers go) have very good game awareness, it seems. I wager there's every chance Australia would have Brazilian, German and even Italian defences very worried. Imagine if Tom Rogic and Aaron Mooy could construct passages of play with those kind of footballers.

Look at basketball. Patty Mills and Ben Simmonds are both in the NBA. Patty is a superbly gifted athlete and a world-class point guard while Ben Simmonds has the potential to be a once-in-a-generation talent. Both played elite junior Aussie Rules and Patty very nearly went to the AIS on a scholarship for it. Australian basketball has benefited immeasurably from those kind of guys (plus Matthew Dellavedova, Andrew Bogut and so on). Imagine if Australian football could draw upon some of these guys who are so athletic and have great match awareness.

Quite. And I don't think we should discount the practicality of football based on strength and size (providing it's not relied upon too much, Guus struck the right balance given his options, imo).

I'm simply pointing out that people seem to misunderstand which components make up athleticism. And it's also reflected in the men's national team compared to Asian sides. As you, yourself, said on the previous page, Australia is behind the world's best teams when it comes to agility and acceleration (or words to that effect, sorry for not getting the exact quote). I think that holds true for the most part. But I'd say Australia also trails behind some Asian nations at senior level in that respect.

The concept is that the Socceroos does have some great athletes Leckie, Smith, Irvine & before them the likes of Cahill & Emerton, all superb athletes, the problem we have is that we don't produce enough touch players. So having all these wonderful AFL athletes in Football would matter little if they cannot master the 1st touch & technique of the Brazilians & very few Australians have been able to master it.

On the subject of athleticism, to illustrate the point that athleticism is not confined to strength and size. Indeed, while strength is a component, size is rather incidental. The other components are things such as anaerobic capacity, speed, agility, balance, aerobic fitness, flexibility and balance (it seems to me).

As such, gymnasts are probably to be considered the most well-rounded athletes. And on that basis, if you were to try to undertake the virtually impossible (and pointless) task of suggesting who the most athletic person on the planet is at the moment, I think there's a strong case to be made for...

Simone Biles, the American gymnast who won four gold medals at the Rio Olympics.

Has Pippy seen this? 

Yep, agreed. But if they did master first touch and technique, then having all these wonderful AFL athletes in football would make Australia a world-class football nation, in all likelihood.

The point is it's about the law of averages. There needs to be a big enough pool of that from which to draw upon. Only a small proportion of that pool will end up being world-class. But there needs to be the volume in the first place, at least statistically (and almost invariably in reality).

Australia, thus far, has struggled to draw upon that volume. Countries such as Germany and Brazil can draw upon that volume.

Patrick smith  is a bitter old coote. His voice annoys me so much i want  to punch him in the throat.  He is an arrogant  twat waffle  . He used to follow essendon but after  the drugs scandal he jumped ship to fremantle but jumped ship again because  they were woeful  last season.

These articles always pop up when football goes and does a naughty like getting 150k attending 3 games in a week. They're scared AF and it's just bloody great

It's both funny and sad how true this is.
Arsenal will be here in mid-July, so we can expect some more articles then if they get good turnouts.
And in the week surrounding the start of the A-League season, there will definitely be more. Seems fairly commonplace in prior seasons.
Once we know the fixture dates for the Sydney and Melbourne derbies, we can add those weeks to the calendar of conveniently timed articles that take shots at football.
And if world cup qualification is all well and good ahead of the Thailand game in September, I guarantee we'll see at least one article pop-up within three days either side of that game.
And then the big one next June: the world cup. June to July 2018 (if we're at the world cup) will be like a snake whistle to a few journalists :P

yep last two posts sums it up pretty well,
when something good happens in football you can bet the
anti football media/articles will follow

If qualification isn't sewn up before the Thailand game we will get the neutral article before hand, then if we lose it will be the 'told you so' article explaining how the beta males will never win anything unless they be more Australian

I can imagine FFA forced both the Socceroos and the organizers (to pick one team) to play this game. That's fair enough "you wanna play Arg v Bra you play us too."

FFA would have had the option of Aami. Which imo would have been better because it would have been full and perhaps mean players feel more accountable when the fans are closer. They of course went for the cash.

Otherside of the coin they would have been slagged off for not having enough tickets available. It would have however meant the game was sold out holds the barbarians at the gates back a little while.