The fast approaching A-League season seems to be overcome with a lack of hype. Apathy if you will, is this a sign of a general malaise affecting the league....or are we merely waiting for clean air post Footy season?

Matilda's are doing well
FFA cup getting good numbers
mainstream discussion about A-League......?

Or are we merely for ever more preaching to the converted?

I think the clubs and powers that be realise that there's little they can do this season to hype up the A league at the moment - the competition is in a rut as it was last year when Cahill and Yoshi and a rumoured $10m spend on marketing (really??) didn't get it out of the rut.

We know the FFAs attention is focussed on its own survival and we know the ffa can't do two things at once, so this is what we get.

For once I don't mind it - If there's general agreement that things are broken and need fixing I'd rather they figured things out before rushing off with more Yoshi-type campaigns

It's interesting that membership is slightly ahead of the same time last year, let's hope crowds life as well.

Certainly here in Victoria we need that clean air. AFL is a noxious smog that infects every facet of Victorian life. I think the main problem has been the lack of that big name signing. The pros and cons have having one have been talked about endlessly but it does generate a massive amount of publicity. The A League has had practically zero off season publicity for anything good or bad. 

We'll see how things are when there's some clean air and hopefully someone makes a big name signing. 

I would like to see an advertising campaign focusing on something like 'the A-league where stars are made' and celebrate our youth and home grown successes rather than rely on short term costly sugar hits...but we're probably not there yet.

This noxious smog also permeates Tasmania - which has no AFL team!

I really hate to take another whack of the dead horse, but the league needs more teams. It's as simple as that. Getting big-name players doesn't have any impact on long-term growth. 

The league is stale and dying. 

I do agree the hype generated by two new teams coming in next season would outdo the hype of just about any affordable recruit

They have 12 months to prepare and don't know who they are , doubt there will be 12 next season even 

I wonder who the roadblock to expansion really is?

To me Fox is the blocker, FFA just get the blame.

Pretty obvious it's FFA for forcing a model that doesn't work

13,000 average attendance and holding strong despite little publicity or exposure.................is not a model that is broken given the continuing interest.

Perhaps a model that has reached its limitation but not broken.

If the purpose of the A League was to deliver average attendances then you might be right

I'd say a 6 year TV deal locked in at 80% of what was offered 8 years ago, Socceroos finishing 3rd, clubs turning against the governing body, FIFA stepping in, only ~180 national professional playing spots, no expansion or expansion options etc... are signs of a broken model

An ambiguous average figure that is only comparable against a defunct semi professional league, and indicative of no progress on that front for 5 years, is not the only benchmark

Once fans stop attending derby games, big encounters, and core support stop attending top tier football games, then we are well and truly fucked. If the FFA are waiting for that to happen before acting then they have less of an idea than I thought

There is no alarm
The league is going fine
There are a few sad people on this forum who can't get over the fact their dying little former NSL team aren't involed
Suck it up the A-League is here to stay and your team is not welcome
✅⚽️🇦🇺😀👏👍🏻

This seems to be the bottom line.

Replying to your own multi, how desperate are you 

The seasons starting soon???

You wouldn't know it in Melbourne

You think it's any better in other states?

Dont worry. Lowy will be in the country to make executive decisions...oh wait. 

This lol.

Only reason I know is from Facebook posts.

-PB

But when you say "increased" it is still relative to a defunct semi professional league

There is a difference between improvement and potential

Is the A League an improvement on what we originally had? Yes
Is it achieving its potential? Hell no

In fact relative to its own accomplishments it is taking some nice backwards strides, let alone trying to answer questions regarding growth and potential

The attendances have not shifted from what the A League was achieving when it kicked off 12 years ago
The "media exposure" has resulted in not one bid for FTA rights resulting in a $5m FTA loss and no HD coverage. The TV deal was the smallest increase in the league's history and less than what was offered 8 years ago. Not a good thing
The "greater investment" is being held back by the FFA. City want to spend more. They aren't allowed
Football has always had good participation rates. Cant credit the FFA for something FIFA did. What we do know is more than 70% of registered participants are not following the A League. Not a good look for the current model
The A League has a salary cap which means footballers get 1/3 of what's on offer in the AFL / NRL making them the least paid professional players of any football code in this country. A lot of players are leaving prematurely to chase bigger coin in failed careers as a result. There are also only 180 professional playing spots. The AFL W has more
The sufficient funds for the national team has been regarded as mismanagement of funds. The FFA are under a lot of criticism and stand to lose their position over the mismanagement of money and dictatorship control

Because everything you type is a comparison to a defunct semi professional league it means you have very very very very low expectations of where the league should be. 5 years from now we'll still have a $50m a year TV deal where as costs would have doubled if not tripled

In 2005 a bit of paint was used to launch the A League. Its football but not as we know it
In 2017 a bit of paint has been used to position our code into a corner. Its football exactly as it once was

WTF?

2005/06 season: Average crowd over 90 matches:11,627. Total for the season: 1,046,468.
2016/17 season: Average crowd over 140 matches: 12,683. Total for the season: 1,777,652.
http://www.aleaguestats.com/ALeagueStats_1CrowdStats.html

I'm not sure how you can say that the attendances have not shifted. Comparing 2016/17 to 2005/06, there are more matches, a higher average number of attendees per match, and nearly twice as many people in total attending matches.

Cool. Thanks for arguing against the literal definition of what I said instead of the intended meaning

If you were right then you'd be able to slam my argument without having to resort to underhanded tactics

Another one of those paulc "facts"

Meanwhile on Earth

Number of aleague seasons that averaged attendances of over 13k

2 - 07/08 and 13/14

Actual number of A-League seasons that averaged attendances of over 13k;
2006/07 (14,036)
2007/08 (15,348)
2013/14 (13,488)
2014/15 (13,038)

Yeah. Fox are at fault. All 58 million dollars per annum, they are at fault. The FFA are mismanaging Fox's money Joff, you dill....

Why Fox?

@Waz

Yeah, I think they're on the right track....maybe give it more oomph and get it onto the mainstream media

Er, it's in major newspapers across Facebook etc. 

It features players like Mooy with exactly what you said. What type of 'oomph' do they need to add to a simple message? 

I'm looking forward to seeing more football in a friendly Timezone. I do enjoy watching football no matter the level.

I'm not looking forward to the monotonous nature of the A-League.

Agree.

The problem is that expansion could adversely effect the financial health of football.

The fact that so many Aussies are infatuated with AFL (that no other country plays) or league (which only a few play), seems to be irrevocable. They soak up too much money and media interest.

FOX are running "I was made in the Hyundai A league" as part of their build up. So along those lines joffa?

ha ha - totally.

When you know your going to die you rape the kitty. Politics at play here.

@433

Dying? ffs - there's about 1.7 million reasons it's not dying. I do agree its stale and I do agree two more teams are needed (they should have been in this season) but dying is well over the top.

Yep dying is a ludicrous word to use. Stagnating is more apt

@ joffa m

I've heard it's the other way around - Fox have become frustrated at the lack of expansion and are blaming the ffa. Not quite sure where the ten clubs sit on this - Roar publicly say they support expansion and want a brisbane Derby but you never know

Gallop. He was Murdoch's Laywer during Rugby League wars. Blame him. He is a Plant, and no assistance to our code... Unless Lowy is railroading Gallop...

There's just no point this season. Lowy thinks it's all about his survival. It's not. It's our game, fuck off.

It's more of a sign that this shit with the FFA and the clubs should've been sorted years ago. That was the entire point of the Crawford Report.

What's the point of commissioning the report if you're not going to even consider any of its recommendations?

There are a lot of new visa players that have been signed across the clubs
I for one can't wait
🇦🇺⚽️👍🏻😀✅

ffa cup results and matildas have been leading the sports news on abc24 - in eggball finals season.

that's pretty impressive.  can't say what it's like in the msm.  who really gives a fuck what happens there anyway? ,

The A League in its early years proved this "clean air" concept is a load of shit

If you advertise well and create hype then people will watch. If you hide in the corner while people go about their day to day lives then you're limited to those that actively seek you out

When the AFL / NRL seasons finish we will not be getting more media space than we normally do. We didn't last year. We didn't the year before. We didn't the year before that (etc...) ... Horse racing starts. Cricket starts. And some people just plum don't give a shit about the A League

The Matildas sold out and got good ratings in the heart of the AFL / NRL finals

@ well said bluebird.

Arguably football has the highest profile its ever had going in to a new season - let's hope the clubs/ffa use it well. Memberships are holding up, attendances should too, and I for one can't wait for the new season ..

One thing you can be sure of is that Foxsports is not a road block to expansion.
They have HAL rights for six years.They have even offered more money for expansion.
Foxsports want ratings and subscriptions over anything else.It's hard if not impossible to make out any case that expansion would reduce ratings and subscriptions.
FFA is the clear roadblock.No money for expansion,no plan to make more and of course a giant axe hanging over their heads.They clearly are more interested in their own necks rather than what is best for football here.

The Fox tv deal has reached it's audience limit and the AL is in danger of following the rugby Union down the slippery slope of limited exposure.

Add to that the growing noise from the old NPL teams and other splitters, along with the lack of expansion teams and it is really hard to keep finding a reason to pay $750 for the family memberships and/or $50-60 a month to watch the A-League, when I can watch all of Europe except for the EPL for about $15 a month.


The membership price at CCM has gone up roughly double in the last 4 years. Wages haven't.

The other thing I'll add is it doesn't bode well for a competition kicking off in less than 2 weeks that wont advertise because there is an AFL game being played 6 days from now

Not ideal and room for improvement. There's no argument there.

The fact is that the HAL has made significant strides since the dim dark ages prior to 2005 and even today with advent of channel 10 showing key live HAL matches is a small but positive progress steps in the right direction.

Reiterating, changes to improve the structure to graduate to the next tier of development is absolutely required but the sky has hardly fallen because you didn't get your own subjective way.

But how can one improve the structure when one has not established the structure?

Me: Your bike has no wheels
You: At least I have a bike

So Bluebird which exNSL do you support

The TV deal is for A-League only so you are comparing apples with oranges

The salary cap is to provide an equal paying field

The attendances are at a solid level, it's a competive market - we have four football codes plus other sporting codes to compete with

You mention 70 % of registered players don't follow the A--League. The figure under the NSL would have been over 90%. Look at the wonderful grand final attendances held around the country since 2004

The game is followed by main stream Australians. Prior to 2004 this would have been unthinkable

Its not just about SELF INTEREST

Why do I have to support an ex NSL team to see that things are up the shit?

The TV deal is small and for a whopping 6 years. The "A League only" line doesn't work because the combined deal isn't even double

The A League has a larger gap from top to bottom than leagues without a salary cap. It has been proven. The only thing a salary cap does is equalise titles over a longer period of time - not create balance in an individual season. The A League also has exemptions which has seen 3 teams fall off the pace. And why is balance so important? I didn't read a single line in the Crawford report that said teams in a top tier from top to bottom need to be able to win a title. This is AFL / NRL mentality and doesn't work in a global competitive market

The attendances are ambiguous. Pull a figure out of your ass and rationalise it. The fact is attendances haven't moved in 5 years, and in the balance of things aren't much different to when the A League started. This 10k figure people hang their hats on today was the benchmark for an unknown and unproven league consisting largely of state league players. No way Sydney should be averaging 16k

Again, NSL comparisons. "Hey guys, we currently have 90% ignoring the national league. Give me $50m and I can make it 78%". That's potential right there

And what is self interest? A governing body that owns and operates all clubs and divides all revenue up as it sees fit, and doesn't even have a constitutional body that meets the basic needs of the empire it is part of? Giving teams a permanent spot in the top flight is the definition of self interest. Fans like me are asking for a fair system that rewards competitiveness and investment

"It's better than the NSL so everything is fine." Standard

You can't read or write beyond one sentence is obvious.

Can't spend money on advertising when you're spending it on lawyers.

Nice retort. My point still stands.

You cant formulate a decent argument. 

Good topic Joffa.

I thought it would eventually end up being about Advertising. Although for me, something always goes wrong in the A-League. I'd like to think that we could solve this sometime soon. Wether it be expansion, or just sorting out things like underwhelming performances, atmospehre at games, atmosphere.

I think channel TEN is it ? having the live games could change the dynamic a bit. SBS is quite monotone and boring as a channel really. 7 might help with delivery a little better

What do you think? Is it a game on SBS Friday and then TEN saturdays ? u think that could help a bit, idk

We are in flux until FFA sort themselves out, or are sorted out. It appears the later will happen. That we have not gone backwards whilst they have been fiddling around says after November we should be able to improve. How quickly will depend on who's in charge then.

Such things as expansion and promotion will certainly be the first 2 cabs off the rank. Relegation should come a couple of years down the track.

😎

“The average cost to an Australian broadcaster of purchasing one hour of US drama is roughly between $200-$300,000, while the average contribution to local Australian drama is $1 million plus. It’s a huge cost differential,” she said.

https://mumbrella.com.au/panel-249709

Fox is currently paying less than 400k per game, not including FFA cup, Asian Cup including finals...which is massive unders. It works out to be well under 200k per hour.

A-league is cheap tv no matter how you dice it.

And it just happens to fit snugly between the AFL and NRL seasons....

Anyone who doesn't think Fox is happy with current situation is delusional ...after all what evidence is there that Fox are agitating for more content?

Yep

The fact that they have agreed to pay for more content. You know, a contract.

Yes they have a contract, that hardly means they are aggressively pursuing or encouraging expansion...which they could do easily!

It is a bit like the current advertising campaign'made in the A-league' sure they have it, but really they're only going through the motions....preaching to the converted if you will.

must admit it's boring. players need something to play for...
all these over hill players will make or break a season. either injuries or just not giving a shit.

We all agree on the earlier kick off to the season, and the ridiculous 'clear air' argument, but I think its Fox who would oppose this.
Remember it was them who helped finance the league so they could fill their 'summer sport' programming in NRL and AFL off seasons.

The clubs asked for the  season to be shifted to the October start to get attendances back on track.  The first season saw a 24% increase in average attendance and this was followed by an 18% increase.  Similarly average STV rating jumped from 45k to 66k a 47% increase and jumped another 23% the following season to the highest average rating we have had i.e. 81k.  Since then both attendance and ratings have eased to a point still well above the average achieved during the 6 years of early start to the season.  Is the rise in both metrics the result of the season change or are there other factors involved?

Good post with the stats.

Don't know the answer to the last sentence.

For loss making cash and only if they chose the 2

I'll see what the new ad campaign (if there is one) and overall level of promotion is like first, and then I'll make my judgement.
Yes, the FFA are leaving it late, but what's new, it happens every year! Is that acceptable? Of course not, but it's very predictable by now, and shouldn't really come as a surprise to anybody.

It looks like the club membership numbers will be ok, which most likely and usually means attendances will too. A few more double headers with W-League games can only be a good thing, particularly how well the women's game is going at the moment, and it's our first season on Ten/OneHD, so let's see how we go. Potentially that could be a massive gamechanger, hopefully we have some cracking Saturday night games this season, and it rates well.

The sameness of the league is a concern of course, but hopefully we hear more about that this coming season, with a blueprint for expansion and some dates to keep the fans interested. That should happen, but maybe only after the FFA has sorted out their own backyard with the clubs and FIFA. Also an independent A-league is not an 'if' but a 'when' proposition, and we could have word on that before the end of this next season. Either way, this will happen.

But overall, I'm very much looking forward to the season, as it's been a very long offseason, too long. Looking forward to checking out the new players coming into the league this year, specially the foreigners as many seem promising, there may even be another Broich or Berisha in amongst them, we'll see. But looking forward to seeing them perform, as well as the new coaches, to see what they bring to the table.

In other news, the new Parramatta Stadium began construction today, and that's gonna be a fantastic stadium for our code. Also, Adam Peacock said that there's new Football programming on FoxSports this season, let's see what that looks like.

I know there's plenty of things to complain about, and it's not all roses, but on the other hand, it's not all doom and gloom either, the real football's back again, and I can't wait!

Forget the bloody "October kickoff Clear air" bullshit. Moving the damn season back to Mid August kickoff would actually give us WAY MORE clear air. For most of August, half the teams from the AFL/NRL are playing in dead rubbers, then even less play games throughout the whole of September. Imagine a 3pm Melb or Sydney Derby kicking off yesterday arvo, instead we are sitting around twiddling out thumbs for a ridiculously long off season.

Would open up way more opportunities for stadium availability, would allow or international breaks as well as a standalone FFA cup Grand Final weekend, it would reduce the fixture congestion and spread competitive games over a much longer period of the year. 

so the season would begin on chopped up cow paddocks ....brilliant !

Actually the fields are in FAR better condition at that time of year than any other (Aug-October), no concerts, Super Rugby is long gone, NRL and AFL winding down in amount of games and cricket hasn't yet started.

@primtech

And allow for the expansion all except the FFA crave!

Good post GyFox, didn't realise the stats had jumped that much.

Expansion means the season will have to extend anyway - I'm wondering whether it would make send to start the first week of September and then have the sugar rush of derbies in October.

Expansion to 14 teams would mean one less round altogether, home and away. Not sure what they would do with twelve. Twelve is the problem I feel. 22 rounds way too short. 33 rounds add a whole heap of costs with potentially small gains in revenue. These are the metrics that scare them most.

They actually hadn't jumped that much. Season 6 was a train wreck of a season so the straight line between two points approach is deceptive

If you compare season 5 to season 7 you'll see that only 3 of the 9 clubs playing in both saw an increase in average and highest attendance in season 7. They were CCM, NCJ and BR who had a terrible season 5. Average ratings would have been down as there were plenty more games and a lot of them mid week

These kind of myths and stats manipulation are damaging to the game. There is a real cost in not playing now. If the offset of this cost is a fine set of the empire's new clothes then it was all for naught

I think preaching to the converted who want more involvement from clubs outside the 10 team HAL milieu has been a significant factor in current HAL disinterest.

The FFA Cup, and to a lesser extent the NPL Cup, have been good for fans to enjoy much wider participation. 

It seems that FFA admin are so entrenched in internal, or extraneous issues like governance and quashing HAL club owners' disquiet, they don't have any energy or time for bigger picture issues.

In Tasmania an almost flawless model was advanced for a HAL team, but it was rejected on spurious grounds. FFA admin keep postponing important decisions. To tell Belteky/Stamroulis that can have a team anywhere else besides Tasmania is ludicrous.

Also, they've privately stated however good a bid is from South Melb they will never be granted a HAL licence, because of deep entrenched hatred of the club from the  Lowy family. This is similar to the way Tony Labozetta operated!

When people who don't have the passion for the game and vision to grow it this is the consequence for it.

Even though TV audiences and crowds have gone up(slightly) there is a strong feeling out in the football community that the a-league and the game in general is lagging and everything else is standing still.

Who is to blame? Many factors but it has to start at head office at FFA HQ.

 There is also a dichotomy between FFA admin and the FFA Technical Department.

The latter also desperately wants the game to grow.

The former are concerned about finances and are risk averse.

It seems there could now be two distinct groups of football supporters in Australia that could ultimately see the demise of football.

The inept governance of FFA admin is a  major contributor. FFA is constantly telling us bad news. When they release supposed good news, most think it is disingenuous.

The groups are:

1. Fans who have been desperate for  a pro league in Australia. For about 8 years since 2005 there was a feel good feeling about the rise and rise of football in Oz. Since then it has become axiomatic in fans' eyes, and all other active stakeholders in football, that the game must expand beyond 10 HAL teams - and soon. This entails those former  starry eyed fans who have recently become disgruntled. The FFA Cup has given us a taste of how inclusive football can be. This could lead to less and less fans attending the HAL in its current format  so that it emulates the NSL, rendering it unsustainable.


2. There is the Eurosnob, or offshore football fan. These characters prefer to watch football on TV. They may have kids who play, they may even coach football, but all of them are, and will always be, beastly careless about football in Australia. The only time they show any interest is when a European or South American team visits Australia.
Many prefer watching league, union, AFL as a domestic football code. Most people I know off forum who claim they like football fall into this category. Many even support, play for and are involved with NPL teams. Australian football beyond their state and club has no context for them unless their NPL club plays an Australian mainland club in the FFA Cup or NPL Cup.





I even foresee a worst case scenario where the current HAL folds, and the highest level of football will be current NPL - an amateur or semi-pro game like the current NZ scenario, minus Wellington.

We will be unlikely to qualify for any World Cups again. We will live in a country where AFL and league rule supreme and most fans' participation in football will be watching European football on TV. We won't even be able to afford  to field teams in Asian senior and underage WC and Asian Cup qualification campaigns. Our best scenario will be to return to Oceania, where they won't want us. 

In the earlier days of Lowy/O'Neill and Lowy/Buckley, there was usually a newer exciting development about to occur  in football in the imminent future. The Lowy senior/ Lowy junior/ Gallop combo have been cynical harbingers of doom.