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MarkfromCroydon
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The elephant in the room. Coaching.
We've got a great curriculum and great coaching overall but there's one clear problem for me. Great strikers, most of the time, are born essentially selfish. They NEED to score and will shoot when they can, even when there's another option. The junior coaching constantly weeds that out of them and tells them to play the pass to the player in the better position. Yes, that's good football, but it is not so good for making a great striker.
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Muz
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Lack of opportunities.
Member since 2008.
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walnuts
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+x+x+xI guess in the nsl days there was that many teams players like Dukes got their chances This sums it up for me - throw enough shit at the wall and eventually some of it will stick. Simply increasing the number of teams will go a long way to increasing the percentage of Aussie strikers available. Combine that with a second division, which may not have the resources to recruit visa players like the first division teams can, then that percentage should increase dramatically. This is not a problem unique to Australia - very few leagues have a culture of putting time and effort into moulding domestic strikers, especially in the cut throat world of professional football. It's normally easier to import a ready made player. That said, there are 3 Aussies in the top 5 of all time A-League goals (Thompson, Brosque and Bridge), so history shows that once a club finds a regular goal scorer, they tend to stick with them and help them flourish. It's not just that though. Every time an Aussie striker shows promise in the A-League, they head off overseas, and end up sitting on the bench for the next few years. Agree wholeheartedly, but one always gets shouted down by the players and the PFA and Eurosnobs for 'holding back a players dream' by suggesting that they continue to bang in goals in the A-League for a few seasons first - classic example would be Kwame Yeboah. Played about 3 games, was in line to be a long term successor to Berisha and then fucked off to German third division obscurity.
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Redcarded
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A plane crash is rarely caused by a single factor.
-Right now we have a player development issue as volkira pointed out. Also look at the difference between us and japan who are our biggest local rival in terms of youth development. Charging parents $1500 a season for 8 and 9 year olds by some npl academies....price hurts but it isnt the only factor
-Not enough pro teams. Imports are often sttikers so locals find it hard to compete. 2nd div please please
-Many strikers head os to make it big and sit on the bench. That happens to all positions but we lack depth here because of the above.
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clockwork orange
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Thought Yeboah and Borello had the makings of decent strikers. Both mobile with an eye for goal.
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apillay12
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+xThought Yeboah and Borello had the makings of decent strikers. Both mobile with an eye for goal. Next world cup cycle I reckon it will be a front 3 of Maclaren, Yeboah and Borrello, throw in Taggart to that mix as well and I reckon youve got a good front 3
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Kamaryn
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+x+xBecause any promising youngster who plays centre forward is shunted off to the wings when they begin to play for their clubs in the HAL. This.
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Barca4Life
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Like with anything player development related its a complex issue that its difficult to solve, but like any player you want to develop its about producing players with quality, players that make the right decisions and make the ability to execute under pressure.
And its not only at senior level which we lack front third class but the youth teams havent shown signs we are getting better.
The more i think it the more i feel the NC doesnt focus enough individual development, too much emphasis on the style of play with teams, this doesn't help our causes either.
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lolitsbigmic
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I think a lot of countries in the world ask the same question. This is why strikers are payed so much more than any of player role.
Poland doing well is partly due to lewandowski.
I always been saying like what other pointed out in the tread already, we always put the young striker out on the wing. This is why it was so great to have Jmac at the roar being our striker.
It points to having more teams and eventually two tiers.
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Barca4Life
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+xIf Fornaroli becomes an Aussie, can he play for Socceroos and if so, would we want him to? How our standards really have fallen off to the point we are happy to pick a an foreign player who turns 33?
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Barca4Life
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+xHaving grown up in Australia playing Rugby League and Cricket and having the sports seasons split the year . I now see a huge difference with my son growing up playing football in Germany. The only time he doesn’t play for his local club is during school holiday periods. Otherwise every other week is football only.Outdoors on grass,Artificial surfaces and in Winter indoors on artificial surfaces or gymnasium wooden floor courts. They have never played with size 3 or 4 balls.He has played with size 5 since he was 4. So for him the ball has gotten so much easier to kick and trick with as he has gotten older. When at school they mix it up with the older boys and watch how the big boys play. So football practice is pretty much everyday of the year. The other thing is registration fees.He paid 20 euros 4 years ago and that’s it. No other costs since.If he needs a full new tracksuit it’s subsidised by the club and 5 euros was what we paid for a new team zip up tracksuit top.Bags,Beanies and team kits are all free. So imagine how many undiscovered strikers could be in Australian suburbs due to their parents not being able to afford registration fees and kits. Germany has an amazing scouting setup. Over 300 talent promotion areas.Each area basically oversees 60 clubs and organise talent sighting days.The best kids are picked with each group promoting at training max 20 kids. That’s 6000 talented kids a year getting extra training by A licensed trainers. They start off in the youngster group8-10 yrs old for a couple years,then move into a 12 year old group till 14 then move into a group 15-16. The aim is to get all those boys in the final 15-16 group into the top league academies. My son is 8 and is already been selected by an Academy for a training group.His Hoping he’ll be selected in the U10 18/19 season. So in regards to finding strikers Australia needs to change how It scouts boys and nurtures them. Then the training and facilities have to be present too. A mate of mine is a trainer in Cairns and their club is 50 yrs old.They are only now getting a club house built. He couldn’t believe that my sons under 7 team at the time had 4 trainers and the training equipment he dreamed off. So a lot to do in Australia to find our future stars. I also find it baffling why we still persist with 6 month seasons to play football, unlike around the world where they do alot longer than ours. But the proof is in the pudding, great post!
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City Sam
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The same reason we don't really produce many top quality players, lack of avenues and not strong enough competition here at younger ages. Which is why a lot do go overseas.
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O Pondios
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+x+xBecause any promising youngster who plays centre forward is shunted off to the wings when they begin to play for their clubs in the HAL. This. IMO middle class boys don't make for good strikers, how many boys from poor backgrounds, drop out of football at U11-12 when club registration fees skyrocket? A great striker needs the hunger and determination of a Berisha plus great skills of course, its all there to see that werve had 2 or 3 great strikers in 40 years.
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BA81
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+x+x+x+xI guess in the nsl days there was that many teams players like Dukes got their chances This sums it up for me - throw enough shit at the wall and eventually some of it will stick. Simply increasing the number of teams will go a long way to increasing the percentage of Aussie strikers available. Combine that with a second division, which may not have the resources to recruit visa players like the first division teams can, then that percentage should increase dramatically. This is not a problem unique to Australia - very few leagues have a culture of putting time and effort into moulding domestic strikers, especially in the cut throat world of professional football. It's normally easier to import a ready made player. That said, there are 3 Aussies in the top 5 of all time A-League goals (Thompson, Brosque and Bridge), so history shows that once a club finds a regular goal scorer, they tend to stick with them and help them flourish. It's not just that though. Every time an Aussie striker shows promise in the A-League, they head off overseas, and end up sitting on the bench for the next few years. Agree wholeheartedly, but one always gets shouted down by the players and the PFA and Eurosnobs for 'holding back a players dream' by suggesting that they continue to bang in goals in the A-League for a few seasons first - classic example would be Kwame Yeboah. Played about 3 games, was in line to be a long term successor to Berisha and then fucked off to German third division obscurity. It's worth noting that a few of our players seem to content themselves w/playing in the German or Dutch 2nd/3rd tier - the aim should be to play in a country's top-flight where the on/off-field stakes are perennially high. It surely wouldn't be bad for Oz football if these guys were playing top-flight football in Hungary, Slovakia, Slovenia etc. rather than being rotation-squaddies/benchwarmers at the Ingolstadts and Willem IIs of the world...
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ErogenousZone
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Remember kids it's not how many goals you score or winning it's just participating that matters!!!!
The same weak as piss attitude prevalent throughout society.
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aussie scott21
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Arnold revealed he was poised to give 20-year-old striker Charles Lokolingoy a go at some stage of Saturday's game. "He'll be unleashed tomorrow night and he's one I'm sure that a lot of fans will be excited about and we've got players that are really pushing for positions now," Arnold said.
Players that may have thought before that their position was safe also know that there's pressure now coming from within the group."
Arnie tips ruthless Sky Blues in A-League
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johnszasz
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Juric is currently on 32 caps for 8 goals while Viduka got 11 goals in 43 caps. Viduka did great work off the ball. Juric us exciting and getting better.
I'd love to see Juric move to Freiburg or Bremen. We know how great Viduka was at club level.
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Zizuo1
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+xArnold revealed he was poised to give 20-year-old striker Charles Lokolingoy a go at some stage of Saturday's game. "He'll be unleashed tomorrow night and he's one I'm sure that a lot of fans will be excited about and we've got players that are really pushing for positions now," Arnold said.
Players that may have thought before that their position was safe also know that there's pressure now coming from within the group."
Arnie tips ruthless Sky Blues in A-League Sore Charles playing for Sydney Youth vs Wanderers a few years ago, and was very impressed kid had it all.
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Volkira
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+xThe same reason we don't really produce many top quality players, lack of avenues and not strong enough competition here at younger ages. Which is why a lot do go overseas. I'm living in Hessen now and local youth teams have a great set up. Basically in the lowest age group G2 their club team plays games.If they get thrashed alot the next year they get grouped with other teams that get thrashed alot. On the other side the teams thrashing other teams then get put togeather in the following year. So the following year teams are slowly filtered.The weaker teams can compete at their level and the Stronger teams get stronger opposition. Then the next following year again the strongest teams get put togeather ,the middle strength teams get put togeather and the weaker teams get put togeather with always a chance of being promoted to a higher tier. So in theory any club could make it to the Bundesliga 1 as each team could climb the upper tiers. Here's a Pyramid for my State of Hessen. Bundesliga 1 Bundesliga 2 3.Liga Regionalliga (Sudwest for Hessen teams) Hessenliga Verbansliga Gruppenliga Kriesoberliga Kriesliga A (Kries means circle so basically local area competion) Kriesliga B Kriesliga C Kriesliga D Below that are the under 10's(E1,E2,F1,F2,G1,G2) which have their own Pyramid system as indicated above. So there are many filters in the German system to find the best kids and future players. All those leagues have a Promotion and relegation system.
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localstar
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Top strikers need to be selfish, arrogant and with a touch of the mongrel or ratbag. Young players these days are taught to be too nice, and unselfish team players. Never going to score a lot of goals that way.
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AEK Spartan
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Avram... to our rescue.
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Benjamin
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+xJuric is just as good as Kennedy and probably better than Agostinho. Need to remember also that Leckie can play forward, infact until probably 3 seasons ago he was a 9. We still have Timmy also who is still scoring as many as he always has. The visa strikers are def roadblocks for developing 9's though Chicken and egg... Are the imports blocking the path for 9s, or are we importing them because we don't have the 9s? In general youth team football in Australia is at too low a level to develop top class players - and strikers are usually the best of the top class players. First issue - we rule out those who can't afford it - when you rule out a sizeable chunk of the hungriest kids in the city you reduce your options considerably. Second issue - the talent pool is spread too thin. Here in Melbourne it's 32 NPL clubs in 2 conferences. If kids aren't playing against the best players every week they won't develop as fast. Third issue - the preferred FFA coaching system appears to focus on getting rid of the ball rather than being able to control it. Fourth issue - the preferred FFA coaching system appears to focus on coaching from a manual rather than from experience of actually playing (the most verbal and literate coaches often can't point to any kind of playing record). Much is made of the star coaches around the world who didn't play professionally - but the fact is that all of them played extensively as youngsters, moving to coaching when they realised they couldn't make it on the pitch.
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Mr B
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+x+x+xBecause any promising youngster who plays centre forward is shunted off to the wings when they begin to play for their clubs in the HAL. This. If I can remember correctly, I could be wrong but I am pretty sure Borrello was a striker, so was Yeboah but both played on the wings at senior level for Brisbane.
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Bunch of Hacks
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+x+xThought Yeboah and Borello had the makings of decent strikers. Both mobile with an eye for goal. Next world cup cycle I reckon it will be a front 3 of Maclaren, Yeboah and Borrello, throw in Taggart to that mix as well and I reckon youve got a good front 3 You dont think Juric will be involved? He's only 25 after all. Leckie is still only 26 also. Possibly throw in Gol Gol also
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paulc
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+x+xAny ideas? 8-10 years since Dukes and Tim were at their peak. McDonald and Kennedy really the only ones close to consistent performance at a high level. Aime Jacquet, French World Cup winning coach and then French national TD, claimed neither were world class. He advanced that if Australia had had a world class striker in Germany 2006, we would have gone further. The strikers who have scored at a goal every 2 games played have been Cahill, Kennedy and Join Aloisi. Macca scored 0 goals in 25 Socceroo games. Dukes scored 11 out of 43 matches. Viduka has never scored a goal against top opposition for the NT. All against smaller nations. Viduka did not score a single goal during our golden era in the 2006 WC finals in Germany. In fact he did't even provide a single assist then, just lots of off-sides. The French coach was bang on.
In a resort somewhere
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Seb 1968
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+xAny ideas? 8-10 years since Dukes and Tim were at their peak. McDonald and Kennedy really the only ones close to consistent performance at a high level. Good thread, and poor finishing has been dogging the Socceroos for as as long as I can remember, and I think it would be fair to say, that Australia's poor finishing has cost it World Cup berths eg. Australia v Iran , second leg 1997 at the MCG where we have 12 shots at Iran's goal, only get two, they have four shots get two in, and go through to France on the away goals rule. Australia V Scotland 1985, second leg at Olympic Park, Melbourne, although the Socceroos lost 2-0 in Glasgow, in the second leg we were all over Scotland like a rash, and could have got at least 2 goals to take the game to extra time. however Scotland's keeper at the time. Jim Leighton, had the game of his life. And although Australia has (thankfully), qualified for its fourth successive FIFA World Cup, had Australia had better finishing, the Soccerroos would have finished second, thus avoiding the torturous play off route they were able to successfully negotiate. My view is that Australia produces great goalkeepers, decent defenders, and some talented midfielders, so we know how to create chances to score, we just don't produce world class strikers, and that's a problem, Australia has to resolve.
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alvn1
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+x+x+xAny ideas? 8-10 years since Dukes and Tim were at their peak. McDonald and Kennedy really the only ones close to consistent performance at a high level. Aime Jacquet, French World Cup winning coach and then French national TD, claimed neither were world class. He advanced that if Australia had had a world class striker in Germany 2006, we would have gone further. The strikers who have scored at a goal every 2 games played have been Cahill, Kennedy and Join Aloisi. Macca scored 0 goals in 25 Socceroo games. Dukes scored 11 out of 43 matches. Viduka has never scored a goal against top opposition for the NT. All against smaller nations. Viduka did not score a single goal during our golden era in the 2006 WC finals in Germany. In fact he did't even provide a single assist then, just lots of off-sides. The French coach was bang on. wished aloisi woud have started against brazil and italy, remember thinking he would have been much more likely to score than viduka
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eldorado
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Viduka was sorely misused as a big back-to-goal sole target man most of the time in the NT set up
His time in the Premier League showed that he was head and shouldsers above anything else we've produced up front
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sethman75
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+xHaving grown up in Australia playing Rugby League and Cricket and having the sports seasons split the year .I now see a huge difference with my son growing up playing football in Germany.The only time he doesn’t play for his local club is during school holiday periods.Otherwise every other week is football only. During Summer outdoors on grass,Artificial surfaces and in Winter indoors on artificial surfaces or gymnasium wooden floor courts.They have never played with size 3 or 4 balls.He has played with size 5 since he was 4. So for him the ball has gotten so much easier to kick and trick with as he has gotten older. When at school they mix it up with the older boys and watch how the big boys play.So football practice is pretty much everyday of the year. The other thing is registration fees.He paid 20 euros 4 years ago and that’s it.No other costs since.If he needs a full new tracksuit it’s subsidised by the club and 5 euros was what we paid for a new team zip up tracksuit top.Bags,Beanies and team kits are all free.So imagine how many undiscovered strikers could be in Australian suburbs due to their parents not being able to afford registration fees and kits. Germany has an amazing scouting setup.Over 300 talent promotion areas.Each area basically oversees 60 clubs and organise talent sighting days.The best kids are picked with each group promoting max 20 kids.That’s 6000 talented kids a year getting extra training by A licensed trainers.They start off in the youngster group8-10 yrs old for a couple years,then move into a 12 year old group till 14 then move into a group 14-16.The aim is to get all those boys in the final 14-16 group into the top league academies. My son is 8 and last year was selected into the Rhgeingau-Taunus-Kries Talent promotion group of only 16 boys and 4 months into it has already been selected by an Academy for a training group.His Hoping he’ll be selected in the U10 18/19 season.So in regards to finding strikers Australia needs to change how It scouts boys and nurtures them.Then the training and facilities have to be present too. A mate of mine is a trainer in Cairns he came to visit me and their club is 50 yrs old.They are only now getting a club house built.He couldn’t believe that my sons under 7 team at the time had 4 trainers and the training equipment he dreamed off.His son trained with my boys team.He had a hard time playing with the size 5 ball and the faster speed of the ball roll on an artificial surface. So a lot to do in Australia to find our future stars.It's a positive move to see more artificial fields being built in Australia. Football Australia and local clubs should think of using unused basketball courts with indoor boots and set up an indoor Junior league after the Outdoor season is over.Get the boys playing more. Thanks for the info. It's a world away from what is going on here. I think the biggest problem for us is opportunity. There are potentially hundreds of great young strikers across the country but a total of zero get a chance in the league because of short sighted and small minded coaches. Example: Sydney FC Bobo is the number 1 striker and rightfully so. His backup is Mat Simon who will never get better or offer anything more than he has already done. Bobo's backup should be one of the best young strikers in the country and coming on for him for 10 minutes each match and phasing into the team. It's such basic principle but for some reason no coaches in this country except maybe Okon do it. Why?
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Gruen
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+x+xHaving grown up in Australia playing Rugby League and Cricket and having the sports seasons split the year .I now see a huge difference with my son growing up playing football in Germany.The only time he doesn’t play for his local club is during school holiday periods.Otherwise every other week is football only. During Summer outdoors on grass,Artificial surfaces and in Winter indoors on artificial surfaces or gymnasium wooden floor courts.They have never played with size 3 or 4 balls.He has played with size 5 since he was 4. So for him the ball has gotten so much easier to kick and trick with as he has gotten older. When at school they mix it up with the older boys and watch how the big boys play.So football practice is pretty much everyday of the year. The other thing is registration fees.He paid 20 euros 4 years ago and that’s it.No other costs since.If he needs a full new tracksuit it’s subsidised by the club and 5 euros was what we paid for a new team zip up tracksuit top.Bags,Beanies and team kits are all free.So imagine how many undiscovered strikers could be in Australian suburbs due to their parents not being able to afford registration fees and kits. Germany has an amazing scouting setup.Over 300 talent promotion areas.Each area basically oversees 60 clubs and organise talent sighting days.The best kids are picked with each group promoting max 20 kids.That’s 6000 talented kids a year getting extra training by A licensed trainers.They start off in the youngster group8-10 yrs old for a couple years,then move into a 12 year old group till 14 then move into a group 14-16.The aim is to get all those boys in the final 14-16 group into the top league academies. My son is 8 and last year was selected into the Rhgeingau-Taunus-Kries Talent promotion group of only 16 boys and 4 months into it has already been selected by an Academy for a training group.His Hoping he’ll be selected in the U10 18/19 season.So in regards to finding strikers Australia needs to change how It scouts boys and nurtures them.Then the training and facilities have to be present too. A mate of mine is a trainer in Cairns he came to visit me and their club is 50 yrs old.They are only now getting a club house built.He couldn’t believe that my sons under 7 team at the time had 4 trainers and the training equipment he dreamed off.His son trained with my boys team.He had a hard time playing with the size 5 ball and the faster speed of the ball roll on an artificial surface. So a lot to do in Australia to find our future stars.It's a positive move to see more artificial fields being built in Australia. Football Australia and local clubs should think of using unused basketball courts with indoor boots and set up an indoor Junior league after the Outdoor season is over.Get the boys playing more. Thanks for the info. It's a world away from what is going on here. I think the biggest problem for us is opportunity. There are potentially hundreds of great young strikers across the country but a total of zero get a chance in the league because of short sighted and small minded coaches. Example: Sydney FC Bobo is the number 1 striker and rightfully so. His backup is Mat Simon who will never get better or offer anything more than he has already done. Bobo's backup should be one of the best young strikers in the country and coming on for him for 10 minutes each match and phasing into the team. It's such basic principle but for some reason no coaches in this country except maybe Okon do it. Why? Adelaide has Blackwood as second striker so it is not only Okon who does it.
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