Australia - India, 4th Test Sydney


Australia - India, 4th Test Sydney

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Decentric
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baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:25 AM
baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:02 AM

 Langer has been getting a few players hot under the collar this week with his comment that those on the fringe of Test selection only average in the mid @30s. Check your eyesite Alfie. Kurtis Patterson (@41), Joe Burns (@40.5, Dan Hughes (@39.7), Matt Wade (@39.6), Jake Lehmann (@39.6). Then there are Tom Cooper averaging @ 45.5, Nick Larkin @49.4. this season. Even Jordan Silk @38, Alex Doolan @38 are averaging more than most of the incumbents. Surely all of these batsmen have strong claims to play in the SCG game but should definitely be in consideration for the Sri Lankan series.



I thought Wade was top of the Shield aggregate and averages this season ?
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jaszyjim - 1 Jan 2019 12:37 PM
baggygreenmania - 1 Jan 2019 11:17 AM

I keep throwing up Agar as the spinner all rounder, contracted and his test record is better than
Marsh or Maxwell. why would they bring in a non contracted player in lieu o Agar?
If Agar is not good enough, then why is he contracted & being paid $900k a year.
Wonder why CA got into financial trouble - it is farcical

My question precisely. He is being treated shabbily. Why? Has he stepped on some officials toes? Have not seen anything in the media. If he is on $900,000 then susrely he is being considered for all formats. What has he played in the past 6 months.. sweet buggar all.
Edited
6 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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Decentric - 2 Jan 2019 9:28 AM
baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:25 AM

I thought Wade was top of the Shield aggregate and averages this season ?

Those are FC averages.

Wade has 571 at @63 this season. His best season by a country mile.
Edited
6 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:32 AM
Decentric - 2 Jan 2019 9:28 AM

Those are FC averages.

So Larkin and Cooper who you suggested aren't this season only? Larkin only has a FC av of 29.7 by my calculations and Cooper an average 34 at FC level. So if you highlight them why not Wade? Knowing you Larkin and Cooper must have some ties to NSW. Wade FC average is nearly 40.
Edited
6 Years Ago by MikeR
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baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:32 AM
Decentric - 2 Jan 2019 9:28 AM

Those are FC averages.

Wade has 571 at @63 this season. His best season by a country mile.

Tremain, Jhye Richardson and Bird are next cabs off the rank to replace  undersiege quicks Starc and Hazlewood. One quick that seems to be forgotten in dispatches is beanpole Blues r/armer Trent Copeland. His record is as good as any of his peers. This year he has played the least games of the more fancied men, has the lowest average @16 and the third best strike rate. Copes has an outstanding First Class record of 320 poles at @25.6. At 32 still he is far from past it.  He would be a fine addition to our Ashes squad as he not only seams the ball but can swing it both ways. Something not too many of our leading quicks have the ability to do.
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MikeR - 2 Jan 2019 9:37 AM
baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:32 AM

So Larkin and Cooper who you suggested aren't this season only? Larkin only has a FC av of 29.7 by my calculations and Cooper an average 34 at FC level. So if you highlight them why not Wade? Knowing you Larkin and Cooper must have some ties to NSW. Wade FC average is nearly 40.

Unlike most current batters in the Test team, Wade already has Test centuries to his name.

He is an experienced test cricketer - who won't be overawed by the big occasion.

In terms of experience and leadership he has been Victorian captain for years and is now Tasmania 's current captain, now Bailey has stepped down.
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Decentric - 2 Jan 2019 9:48 AM
MikeR - 2 Jan 2019 9:37 AM

Unlike most current batters in the Test team, Wade already has Test centuries to his name.

He is an experienced test cricketer - who won't be overawed by the big occasion.

In terms of experience and leadership he has been Victorian captain for years and is now Tasmania 's current captain, now Bailey has stepped down.

There was no bias. Read my post? 
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baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:48 AM
baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:32 AM

Tremain, Jhye Richardson and Bird are next cabs off the rank to replace  undersiege quicks Starc and Hazlewood. One quick that seems to be forgotten in dispatches is beanpole Blues r/armer Trent Copeland. His record is as good as any of his peers. This year he has played the least games of the more fancied men, has the lowest average @16 and the third best strike rate. Copes has an outstanding First Class record of 320 poles at @25.6. At 32 still he is far from past it.  He would be a fine addition to our Ashes squad as he not only seams the ball but can swing it both ways. Something not too many of our leading quicks have the ability to do.

Agree totally on Copeland and Tremain and Jhye. All really good quality right arm bowlers that definitely should be given a chance. I personally would like to see that eventuate. Right arm bowler along with Cummins, with Starc's left arm bowling, as you say Baggers these sort of variations make up a good attack.
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baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:25 AM
baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:02 AM

 Langer has been getting a few players hot under the collar this week with his comment that those on the fringe of Test selection only average in the mid @30s. Check your eyesite Alfie. Kurtis Patterson (@41), Joe Burns (@40.5, Dan Hughes (@39.7), Matt Wade (@39.6), Jake Lehmann (@39.6). Then there are Tom Cooper averaging @ 45.5, Nick Larkin @49.4. this season. Even Jordan Silk @38, Alex Doolan @38 are averaging more than most of the incumbents. Surely all of these batsmen have strong claims to play in the SCG game but should definitely be in consideration for the Sri Lankan series.



I re-read your post Baggers, still no mention of Wade and those I have highlighted are this season only, question stands why not mention Wade, if you mention those highlighted. Wade still averages nearly 40 at FC level and the leading run scorer this year. Better still Patterson this hasn't scored as many runs as S Marsh has from 6 matches compared to Marsh's 3. Doesn't suggest to me as though he would be a worthy replacement for Marsh, you're looking to improve the batting
Edited
6 Years Ago by MikeR
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MikeR - 2 Jan 2019 9:37 AM
baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:32 AM

So Larkin and Cooper who you suggested aren't this season only? Larkin only has a FC av of 29.7 by my calculations and Cooper an average 34 at FC level. So if you highlight them why not Wade? Knowing you Larkin and Cooper must have some ties to NSW. Wade FC average is nearly 40.

Where is the bias? My post hilites all players with a current @40 or minutely under FC record. Wade is among that group. I added the other two as they also come into the running with strong shield performances this year... despite not having @40 averages. Did you not type the same yesterday. btw Cooper has played almost all of his FC career with Sth Oz. There is only one biased poster on this forum and he knows who he is.
Edited
6 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:57 AM
MikeR - 2 Jan 2019 9:37 AM

Where is the bias? My post hilites all players with a current @40 or minutely under FC record. Wade is among that group. I added the other two as they also come into the running with strong shield performances this year... despite not having @40 averages. Did you not type the same yesterday. btw Cooper has played almost all of his FC career with Sth Oz. There is only one biased poster on this forum and he knows who he is.

Sorry didn't actually see Wade in your post, Just like Decentric didn't and questioned. Apologies Baggers.
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baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:57 AM
MikeR - 2 Jan 2019 9:37 AM

Where is the bias? My post hilites all players with a current @40 or minutely under FC record. Wade is among that group. I added the other two as they also come into the running with strong shield performances this year... despite not having @40 averages. Did you not type the same yesterday. btw Cooper has played almost all of his FC career with Sth Oz. There is only one biased poster on this forum and he knows who he is.

This refresh your memory.
If selectors are serious about the batting then you have Khawaja
Add Wade, Harris, Cooper, Larkin and Burns the top 5 run scorers this year, and sort out the batting
Harris
Larkin
Khawaja
Cooper
Burns
Wade
That's the best chance of scoring runs in Australia at present . 


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I believe in career average only

how many players have we seen in great short term 1st class form only to lose all that form when they step up to test level and then not recover it when they go back to first class

If you go career 1st class average you get a dozen games where they scratch around uselessly but at the end of it they usually get pretty close to their first class record

even S Marsh who is slightly below his first class record still has an average of 35ish which is almost respectable by this generations standard
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baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 10:03 AM
baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:57 AM

This refresh your memory.
If selectors are serious about the batting then you have Khawaja
Add Wade, Harris, Cooper, Larkin and Burns the top 5 run scorers this year, and sort out the batting
Harris
Larkin
Khawaja
Cooper
Burns
Wade
That's the best chance of scoring runs in Australia at present . 


Already apologised Baggers, Decentric and I obviously didn't see Wade in your post, and we both questioned. Sorry again Baggers
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MikeR - 2 Jan 2019 9:55 AM
baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:25 AM

I re-read your post Baggers, still no mention of Wade and those I have highlighted are this season only, question stands why not mention Wade, if you mention those highlighted. Wade still averages nearly 40 at FC level and the leading run scorer this year. Better still Patterson this hasn't scored as many runs as S Marsh has from 6 matches compared to Marsh's 3. Doesn't suggest to me as though he would be a worthy replacement for Marsh, you're looking to improve the batting

SOS Marsh keeps getting picked for two reasons. he is  CA pet and he has experience. He has also had a decent shield season. The other constant in his career is he is unreliable. Patterson has to come into consideration as he has a @40 average and blokes who average @5 less have already been chosen and failed. Just get him in there and let him show what he can do. Forget that his conversion rate is moderate. He scores plenty of 50s. Where he scores his runs is not all that relevant. As long as he is scoring them. Patterson has a solid technique, can bat time and is better than average against spin. Give him a shot. If he does not take it.. I along with you will be calling for his head.. In short, Kurtis Patterson deserves his chance.
Edited
6 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 10:11 AM
MikeR - 2 Jan 2019 9:55 AM

SOS Marsh keeps getting picked for two reasons. he is  CA pet and he has experience. He has also had a decent shield season. The other constant in his career is he is unreliable. Patterson has to come into consideration as he has a @40 average and blokes who average @5 less have already been chosen and failed. Just get him in there and let him show what he can do. Forget that his conversion rate is moderate. He scores plenty of 50s. Where he scores his runs is not all that relevant. As long as he is scoring them. Patterson has a solid technique, can bat time and is better than average against spin. Give him a shot. If he does not take it.. I along with you will be calling for his head.. In short, Kurtis Patterson deserves his chance.

Settle Mike I posted that graphic before your (below). Was not being a big head. 
Sorry didn't actually see Wade in your post, Just like Decentric didn't and questioned. Apologies Baggers. 

Edited
6 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 10:11 AM
MikeR - 2 Jan 2019 9:55 AM

SOS Marsh keeps getting picked for two reasons. he is  CA pet and he has experience. He has also had a decent shield season. The other constant in his career is he is unreliable. Patterson has to come into consideration as he has a @40 average and blokes who average @5 less have already been chosen and failed. Just get him in there and let him show what he can do. Forget where he scores his runs in domestic cricket. He has a solid technique, can bat time and is better than average against spin. Give him a shot. If he does not take it.. I along with you will be calling for his head.. In short, Kurtis Patterson deserves his chance.

I'm all for giving a chance to someone that has proven themselves over a period of time, such as Patterson, but that is across the board especially when losing it is the perfect opportunity as no expectations we're losing anyway.

May I suggest we look at the last time we were No 1 ranked was this test match
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8418/scorecard/914239/new-zealand-vs-australia-2nd-test-australia-tour-of-new-zealand-2015-16

Look who were the players who performed that we got the No 1 ranking
Burns, Smith, Voges, Bird and Pattinson.

And look who didn't. 
Warner, Khawaja, M Marsh, Neville and Hazlewood, Lyons performance was OK not great but Ok

The ones that did perform, were the first dropped, or out injured in Pattinson's case. Smith the exception

The ones that didn't perform are the ones you could say rode the coat tails of the others to get that No 1 ranking and now make up the nucleus of the team. Might be something in that.
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yep patterson, white, maxwell, burns should all be there

also we should beg lynn to come back
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baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 10:16 AM
baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 10:11 AM

Settle Mike I posted that graphic before yours (below). Was not being a big head. 
Sorry didn't actually see Wade in your post, Just like Decentric didn't and questioned. Apologies Baggers. 

For the record Mike I dont regard Larkin as Test class. His measly FC record is indicative of what I consider is a poor mental game. .There is another top order bat that is similar. Guess him? I digress. Larkin makes the Blue Shield team on the back of incredible FL matches. If not mistaken he has three double tons in that format. Also if not mistaken he has gotten into the Blues side after each of them. This stretches over at least the past two years. Pleased he is having a terrific 2018/19 season. He has to continue this to change my mind about his mental frailties. Ok answer my question.. who does this remind you of?
Edited
6 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:25 AM
baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:02 AM

 Langer has been getting a few players hot under the collar this week with his comment that those on the fringe of Test selection only average in the mid @30s. Check your eyesite Alfie. Kurtis Patterson (@41), Joe Burns (@40.5, Dan Hughes (@39.7), Matt Wade (@39.6), Jake Lehmann (@39.6). Then there are Tom Cooper averaging @ 45.5, Nick Larkin @49.4. this season. Even Jordan Silk @38, Alex Doolan @38 are averaging more than most of the incumbents. Surely all of these batsmen have strong claims to play in the SCG game but should definitely be in consideration for the Sri Lankan series.



In my very first post. I rated cricket from CA down.
Most were minus & I had Langer as a ? - I have now changed this to a minus
Currently I cannot see any positive actions he is having on improving the team.
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Decentric - 2 Jan 2019 9:48 AM
MikeR - 2 Jan 2019 9:37 AM

Unlike most current batters in the Test team, Wade already has Test centuries to his name.

He is an experienced test cricketer - who won't be overawed by the big occasion.

In terms of experience and leadership he has been Victorian captain for years and is now Tasmania 's current captain, now Bailey has stepped down.

Wade looks a new man since being relieved of the pressure of the BG keeper/batsman. This points to a mental barrier. Will he revert to his poor returns with the bat if he is recalled? 
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jaszyjim - 2 Jan 2019 10:43 AM
baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:25 AM

In my very first post. I rated cricket from CA down.
Most were minus & I had Langer as a ? - I have now changed this to a minus
Currently I cannot see any positive actions he is having on improving the team.

Yes looking increasingly like CA's lapdog. 
Edited
6 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 10:32 AM
baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 10:16 AM

For the record Mike I dont regard Larkin as Test class. His measly FC record is indicative of what I consider is a poor mental game. There is another top order bat. Guess him? I digress. Larkin makes the Blue Shield team on the back of incredible FL matches. If not mistaken he has three double tons in that format. Also if not mistaken he has gotten into the Blues side after each of them. This stretches over at least the past two years. Ok answer my question.. who does this remind you of?

Not sure who you are referring to, Jonathan Wells maybe. For Qld the only centuries this year in FL is McSweeney, Heazlett and Corey Hunter. So I would imagine you may be referring to Heazlett which if you are no arguments from me, but Heazlett is only 23 and has played 29 FC matches, whereas Larkin at 28 only 23 FC matches, probably indicates NSW don't think much of Larkin so why would Australia.
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MikeR - 2 Jan 2019 9:52 AM
baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:48 AM

Agree totally on Copeland and Tremain and Jhye. All really good quality right arm bowlers that definitely should be given a chance. I personally would like to see that eventuate. Right arm bowler along with Cummins, with Starc's left arm bowling, as you say Baggers these sort of variations make up a good attack.

Mike you know full well Starc does not feature in my long term best attack. Problem is lefties with pace and swing are hard to find. Closest to Starc's kinda game is Jason Behrendorff. I have always rated him. Not quite as quick as Starc but miles more consistent. I am fast becoming a fan of Nick Winter. Is dynamite with the swinging Dukes in hand. Cut his teeth in English conditions I understand. But like many of our bowlers struggling to take wickets with the Kooka. But he is still a novice. If he picks up a packet from remaining four Shield games CA has to seriously consider him for the Ashes.
Edited
6 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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MikeR - 2 Jan 2019 10:49 AM
baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 10:32 AM

Not sure who you are referring to, Jonathan Wells maybe. For Qld the only centuries this year in FL is McSweeney, Heazlett and Corey Hunter. So I would imagine you may be referring to Heazlett which if you are no arguments from me, but Heazlett is only 23 and has played 29 FC matches, whereas Larkin at 28 only 23 FC matches, probably indicates NSW don't think much of Larkin so why would Australia.

Not Heazlett. He is still on L plates. This bloke has been a Test fixture on and off for what must be a decade. The criteria is someone who scores big in lead in games or those below the top level such a FL.. but fails miserably more often that not when given a Baggy Green... or in Larkin's case a baggy Blue. 
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baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 11:09 AM
MikeR - 2 Jan 2019 10:49 AM

Not Heazlett. He is still on L plates. This bloke has been a Test fixture on and off for what must be a decade. The criteria is someone who scores big in lead in games or those below the top level such a FL.. but fails miserably more often that not when given a Baggy Green... or in Larkin's case a baggy Blue. 

S Marsh, 2nd guess M Marsh
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MikeR - 2 Jan 2019 11:25 AM
baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 11:09 AM

S Marsh, 2nd guess M Marsh

 SOS Marsh you got him.
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MikeR - 2 Jan 2019 10:22 AM
baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 10:11 AM

I'm all for giving a chance to someone that has proven themselves over a period of time, such as Patterson, but that is across the board especially when losing it is the perfect opportunity as no expectations we're losing anyway.

May I suggest we look at the last time we were No 1 ranked was this test match
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8418/scorecard/914239/new-zealand-vs-australia-2nd-test-australia-tour-of-new-zealand-2015-16

Look who were the players who performed that we got the No 1 ranking
Burns, Smith, Voges, Bird and Pattinson.

And look who didn't. 
Warner, Khawaja, M Marsh, Neville and Hazlewood, Lyons performance was OK not great but Ok

The ones that did perform, were the first dropped, or out injured in Pattinson's case. Smith the exception

The ones that didn't perform are the ones you could say rode the coat tails of the others to get that No 1 ranking and now make up the nucleus of the team. Might be something in that.

You see the name and a lite glows and you think kill Hazlewood... Unbelievable Mike. You went to the trouble of trawling thru for his worse game. I look at the big picture. .the entire series.  In your own words Mike "wickets are the most important thing"  As you can see Lyon also had a better than ok tour. 
Most wickets
PlayerMatInnsOversMdnsRunsWktsBBIBBMAveEconSR510
NM Lyon (AUS)2464.013226104/917/12322.603.5338.400
JR Hazlewood (AUS)2495.02530794/426/11734.113.2363.300
JM Bird (AUS)2460.51422885/597/12528.503.7445.610
N Wagner (NZ)1250.11016676/1067/16623.713.3043.010
JL Pattinson (AUS)1241.01015864/776/15826.333.8541.000
TA Boult (NZ)2381.01226952/1013/16853.803.3297.200




Edited
6 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:48 AM
baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 9:32 AM

Tremain, Jhye Richardson and Bird are next cabs off the rank to replace  undersiege quicks Starc and Hazlewood. One quick that seems to be forgotten in dispatches is beanpole Blues r/armer Trent Copeland. His record is as good as any of his peers. This year he has played the least games of the more fancied men, has the lowest average @16 and the third best strike rate. Copes has an outstanding First Class record of 320 poles at @25.6. At 32 still he is far from past it.  He would be a fine addition to our Ashes squad as he not only seams the ball but can swing it both ways. Something not too many of our leading quicks have the ability to do.

I think the view would be Copeland bowls too slow, which is probably nonsense but I cannot see him being selected even if their was a massive number of injuries. He was not successful when he was given the chance as well.
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baggygreenmania - 2 Jan 2019 11:42 AM
MikeR - 2 Jan 2019 10:22 AM

You see the name and a lite glows and you think kill Hazlewood... Unbelievable Mike. You went to the trouble of trawling thru for his worse game. I look at the big picture. .the entire series.  In your own words Mike "wickets are the most important thing"  As you can see Lyon also had a better than ok tour. 
Most wickets
PlayerMatInnsOversMdnsRunsWktsBBIBBMAveEconSR510
NM Lyon (AUS)2464.013226104/917/12322.603.5338.400
JR Hazlewood (AUS)2495.02530794/426/11734.113.2363.300
JM Bird (AUS)2460.51422885/597/12528.503.7445.610
N Wagner (NZ)1250.11016676/1067/16623.713.3043.010
JL Pattinson (AUS)1241.01015864/776/15826.333.8541.000
TA Boult (NZ)2381.01226952/1013/16853.803.3297.200




He did have a poor second test. Really inflated his average and strike rate. But started the series in great form. 
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8418/scorecard/914237/new-zealand-vs-australia-1st-test-australia-tour-of-new-zealand-2015-16

Edited
6 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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