Lmao 

This is kind of true but cost big $$$ to build stadiums 

The Lakeside situation is a heartbreak blight on the history of Australian football. Albert park is the cradle of Victorian soccer with games dating there back to the 1800s. The Lakeside deal is a travesty:

We lost a football controlled 99-year lease on a soccer specific venue in the heart of Melbourne.
The club was forced into a deal they couldn't refuse which provided financial security and the only realistic chance to modernise the facilities.
The Lakeside deal was amazingly convenient - offering a natural home for the Victorian Institute of Sport right next to the State Swimming Centre.
Eddie McGuire sat on the board of ATHLETIC AUSTRALIA helping vote to tear down Olympic Park and secure a training ground for Collingwood.
Victorian Football lost a piece of History in Olympic park as well as control of the spiritual heartland for the game in the state.

This is as great a tragedy as ruins of St George Stadium. The new FFA MUST ensure these facilities are not lost in the future as the legacy of the modern era of Australian football has been devastating to football infrastructure. We're in a position now where clubs LOSE MONEY at HOME GAMES paying for stadiums that prioritise OTHER SPORTS.

In an ideal world the St George Stadium precinct and the Albert Park Precincts would be cradles of the game and training bases for our national teams. They still can be, but for now the running track and burned ruins remain a blight to the administration of the game.

Next FFA - SECURE FOOTBALL CONTROLLED FACILITIES.

And for the record, Lakeside is a surprisingly good venue to watch football - it could just have been soooo much better.

Kardinia is only 6m wider between the first row of seats.

When you compare Bankwest against Lakeside the viewing distance for the first row is 6m while Lakeside is 24m on one side and 28m on the other as I read the image on Google Earth Pro.  The whole bottom tier at Bankwest and the first 9 rows in the 2nd tier are closer to the pitch than the closest first row at Lakeside.  That means that there are about 12,000 seats along the sides at Bankwest that are closer than the first seat at Lakeside.  It's a 3rd rate stadium at best as is every narrow format oval.

Temporary seating for the goal ends would be a good solution. The Glasgow Warriors Rugby team play out of Scotstoun Stadium, which is an athletics stadium and has a similar design to Lakeside Oval. When Rugby Union started getting played there, they rammed temporary seating on three sides up against the pitch to make it workable. Lakeside could in theory at least have this on the goal ends. 

Most of the NSW NPL clubs are in serious need of some renovation of their respective grounds. 

APIAs stand alongside Marion Street has been officially condemned by council and now has no roof. Somehow the Sydney FC v Rockdale friendly allowed spectators but with no roof it's even more exposed to the elements than it was before, and it was hardly comfortable beforehand. Apparently APIA don't have the money to build a new strand/renovate because they spent the majority of their grant to upgrade their pitch (and build a fucking scoreboard) on importing the soil required for the artificial pitch all the way from fucking Italy. Great use of funds there. 
 
Marconi's had a main stand along the far side of the field that was knocked down a couple years ago for similar reasons. Club Marconi don't seem exactly keen to fund any form of renovation of the field. Sydney United 'seating area' is diabolical. Most the seats are broken and/or missing and have been for a fair few years. Half the field is also non seated. 

Haven't been to Bonnyrigg but doesn't seem much better than the aforementioned fields. Been about 5 years since I've been to Sutherland and don't remember a lot about it but it's small and unsophisticated. Only holds about 5k at a pinch. If the got in the A-League you would assume they would move to Shark Park - home of Cronulla Sharks in the NRL. 

A-League or A2 Milk League, I think clubs would have to be held to a minimum standard of professionality, and most NPL NSW clubs would fail this for the most part from what I can see. I think the AFC website is down at the moment because I keep getting error code messages, but I found this post from the forum from 10 years ago which states the requirement for the Champions League. Whilst I think it's out of the reach for most NPL NSW clubs, I think AFC Cup reqirements would be a good start: 

- Two covered benches.
..........................................
- Two air-conditioned dressing rooms. With at least four showers and toilets, seating for 30 people. One massage table. One whiteboard + Pens. One Fridge.
- Referees airconditioned drssing room. 
- Room for AFC officials with internet, laptop, printer and photocopier.
- 110m2 Media Room.
- Press Conference Room.
- Camera Positions at halfway, two at each penalty area and additional camera positions.
- Commetry Positions.
- Studio with a view of the pitch.
- Doping Control Room.
.........................................
- All seats must be fixed to the floor.
- No temporary stands.
- 8% allocated for away fans.
- PA system

Going off that I think most clubs would struggle to use their home ground. Bear in mind this is Asian Champions League standard. Obviously the rules are more lax for league competitions (Sydney FC allowed to used to grass areas at Kograh & Leichhardt for A-League matches but not Champions League). Most grounds would have to spend a fair bit of $$$ investing in their stadia to bring it up to a respectable scratch IMO. 

The only gounds that IMO are suitable to go right off the bat are of course Wollongong Wolves' WIN Stadium. A full 100% professional, international standard stadium. Too big for them at the moment at NPL level, but perfect for an A-League team. I mean I don't really think that needs to be discussed. 

Blacktown City's Lily Homes Stadium wouldn't need too much upgrading. Sydney Olympic playing out of Belmore Oval wouldn't bee too much of an issue. They don't own their ground (owned by the Canterbury Council who give favour to the Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs NRL team) and thus would find it difficult to be able to upgrade the stadium short of sellouts week in week out, or crowds sizeable enough to give The Bulldogs and Canterbury council something to think of. Although the Dogs have their HQ and training facility at the ground so I doubt that's going to eventuate. 

Manly United would probably be be fine to use Cromer Park, but that's only got a <10k capacity, which would be fine. Maybe move bigger games to Brookvale Oval but that's got facilities even worse than Leichhardt Oval, let alone a substandard playing surface. In a pinch you could move games to North Sydney Oval which we know the Mariners have done once or twice but bring on the complaints of the non drop-in cricket pitch. 

Hakoah's ground is again Tiny and whilst probably find for most A-League 2 games, you'd think they'd need to find a better stadium for bigger games. I doubt they'd hold games at their field if they ever drew A-League opposition. Would probably move games to Kograh. 

Rockdale City should be find for A2  from what I saw in the FFA Cup last year. Maybe they'd have to install some more fixed seating (if we're going off AFC regulations). 

I have little to no idea about any other stadia in other NPL clubs. I did get to visit South Melbourne earlier this year for a Sydney FC Youth League game, and that would be perfect for A-League or A2 Milk League. 

Was there the day after 'Straya Day in a sorry hungover state. I was actually mightily impressed by the sightlines from even relatively low in the grandstand. Could see it working in the A-League and Second Division. Despite it being a W-League game, I thought the catering on offer was a bit substandard. Obviously, only the one "canteen" open (that's literally what it was) and the offer was incredibly poor. $6 cans of Carlton were acceptable, but given it's South Melbourne FC I was disappointed at the choice of a Mrs Macks lukewarm pie or outrageously awful chicken nuggets and chips for $10. And you only got like 4 nuggets. 

If Brisbane were to get a second A-League team, or a professional second division team I.E. Brisbane Strikers - could their stadium work. IIRC they were looking at renovating it for a potential A-League gig and it looked quite nifty. 

Does Queensland still have that rule where any stadium (or event) over 9,999 and they have to pay a tax to the government in regards to public transport or something like that? Could a 15k boutique stadium work there? How much work would Ballymore need to bring up to standard? 

I’m happy to defend it because I watch games there every fortnight, the athletics track doesn’t detract from the view you get, its Basically a smaller version of the old Olympic Park. The stands are elevated enough to make the view great, and the seating capacity exceeds any other venue likely to be used in Victoria.

a lot of nostalgia for the configuration of the ground before the athletics track but the reality is the place was run down, the wooden seats around the ground were atrocious and many actually broken. All we have really lost is behind the goals..an area that’s unlikely to ever be needed unless we were playing top flight football.

photos doesn’t really do it justice, many who bag it change their tune when they see a match there and realise it’s pretty decent.

good thread that creates an interesting discussion. I've been pretty vocal on what I believe constitutes HAL compliant stadia. Because if you plan on being in the second division, then you must have an ambition of making the top division down the track.

My personal view is that it must have a minimum of 10,000 seats (or at least terraces that make the capacity over 10,000). There must very little grass or hills, because this fails AFC compliancy if they earn the right to host ACL games. Then you have to factor in aesthetics. We can't have teams in the top tier playing in something that looks like a tinpot backwater suburban stadium. Perception is very important and we will be a laughing stock if the preeminent football league in the country plays games out of something akin to a bomb shelter.


I can't speak for stadiums in other states, but in my opinion, stadiums in Melbourne such as Lakeside stadium, Knights Stadium and Kingston Heath fail this criteria. controversial and strict I admit, but thats my view. I want us to be far more ambitious. We need more Tarneit Stadiums around Australia. We need Dandenong Stadium to be built. We need more AAMI Parks, Bankwest Stadiums and NIB Stadiums. We need to fuck off all Oval stadiums. We need to fuck off the 40,000-50,000 capacity stadiums that look empty during HAL games. 

Heiny and any other Sydneyites, what kind of crowd numbers would you think A2 could pull ?
Sure it would vary depending who's vsing who and a derby would/could pull ok numbers but lets consider ballpark figures ?

pretty much it re Sydney grounds.
Nothing much has been done by the PL1 clubs on their grounds for yonks.
There is the exception here and there such as Lily Homes/Cromer but few and far between.
Not surprising for lets face it, they have been left out, tuff getting funds and they would have thought why bother.
Now this catch's every club intending participating A2.

There is some magic small set ups in PL3 now synthetic based could be considered ?.
Arlington, a suedo Bradman kind of ground with that classic ol cricket under cover stand, yep its small for spectators and would need more seating either side of stand but love the place.
Jensen Park now synthetic, under cover stand one side seating opposite side, imo good to go.
Christie Park synthetic, needs seating entry side but good to go.
Lynwood Park ?
Then as mentioned some known grounds depending the cost ?
Jubilee
Leichardt
VSP
Sydney Olympic Park ?

By your criteria no J league team would meet it either!

I never thought I'd get to Lakeside, but I managed a W-League game earlier in the year. I agree with this sentiment. It's fun to bag out South Melbourne until you're hoarse in the throat and the barman calls last drinks, but in reality it's a good little stadium. And almost perfect for A-League conditions (yeah, I said it...). The only thing that I think is lacking are catering facilities. Would go again to another game there. I thought the sightlines from where we were sitting were alright. 

The social club was closed if its the W league game im thinking of. Di Pietro called it a great venue when they interviewed him at half time of that game. Its no aami park but how many are? Its decent for what it is. People look at photos of it and start mentioning stuff like needing binoculars to see etc but couldnt be further off the mark. I'd happily call it out if that was the case.

It probably winds a lot down to how the league and individual clubs market themselves. I certainly don't believe that they'd be selling out even their massively reduced stadiums unless there's a well-marketed derby. Could they draw on new fans? Perhaps, but the A-League will show you how difficult that is at the best of times. I highly doubt you're going to get too many established Sydney FC or Western Sydney fans returning to their 'old roots clubs' in massive droves, not without substantial investment in their facilities and a uplift in promotion and marketing. Without serious investment in the 'old roots clubs' people aren't going to take them any more seriously than they do currently playing in the NPL competitions. Marcarther FC are going to see first-hand how difficult it is to tap into a fanbase that's split down the middle and that's for the A-League. 

Whilst I think a professional second division and potential promotion relegation further down the line will be a good thing, I feel like people are going to have to curb their expectations in terms of crowds. With A-League clubs mostly struggling to fill out their stadiums, I really doubt any old school clubs are going to be much better. 

Olympic Park in Sydney is a rubbish place to watch football at the ends.  The sides are "OK" but the seating is on the track not behind it.

Sydney Croatia will get a boost in crowds, so will Rockdale. The others are in NSW are dead. Wanderers will lose lot of supporters to Sydney Croatia in the near future, same with Sydney FC and Rockdale. 

So thats not happening as we don't have unlimited billionaires or government funding to make building multiple $250m boutique stadiums possible in every city. Relying on the later will also mean clubs having to effectively abandon the rare infrastructure that game actually owns and move to government run stadia that will restrict clubs ability to earn significant match day revenue. It would also force multiple teams to share stadiums in each city, which is more pathetically tinpot than putting up with a couple of suburban grounds.

And by your strict criteria, the majority of leagues in the world (particularly the ones in Europe and Asia that we should be emulating) a laughing stock. 

Anyone know what's happening with APIA. Could they be in financial trouble or the owners losing interest. Their lease at Lambert Park has only been extended for 6 months up to March 2020 but if there's really no money for renovations could Tony Raciti or whoever owns APIA be moving on....to retirement maybe ?. Or could they be saving their funds for something bigger and better in a division 2.

what do you mean? a quick google search tells me the lowest drawing J1 Leagie team this season is Shonan Bellmare at an average of 12,600. 

Yeah, APIA do have the funds for investment but the board and Tony don't want to spend it. Most of their board members are in the AAFC so they are saving it for second division I assume.

Probably a better guide for stadia is the EFL (Championship, League 1 and 2 in England).

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-1---membership-criteria-regulation-8/

5,000 uncover seated capacity is the minimum requirement. 

Gives other details to consider too. 

Probably a better guide and probably not too dissimilar to that of AFC regulations (which is what I'm assuming A-League clubs have to abide by). Most NSW  grounds currently would fail a lot of those guidelines without some serious investment in their stadia. 

I honestly think the most Sydney-based A2 clubs would end up playing out of Bankwest Stadium in the end. Being located in the center of Sydney, it's not too far from the home bases of most of the NPL clubs and meets all the aforementioned EFL and AFC requirements.

I've missed you bby

-PB

if it holds 10k it would probably be a good A1 stadium

Many J league teams play in large stadiums with athletics tracks around them. By your criteria none of them would make our 2nd tier.