This is my take on that extraordinary last day.
Hurts most when you lose the unloseable. As that is what all we Aussies reckoned at the start of the day...that we had the match and the little urn in the bag.  Problem was England knew that the pitch had lost life and pace and if they could stay in they had ample time to get the runs. They also figured we had not scored sufficient runs in our second innings... and they were correct.. we had not. We miscalculated what target was needed to take the game away from England. Day three batting conditions were the best of the match ..so we should have added at least another 100 to our tally. That would have been a bridge too far even for Stokes. 

There is no doubt Stokes effort was exceptional. But he was in a white ball scenario for that last hour.. and that is his best format. He decided to copycat his effort in the final of the ODI WC.. and it paid off. I was most impressed the way he shepherded Leach. Also his placement and power when most of our field were stationed on the boundaries. Above all I was almost shocked by the maturity he displayed for his first 50 runs. 

Our bowlers are not to blame for the loss and possibly the retention of the Ashes. It was the worst batting lineup in the modern era to ever tour England imho.. that are.

DC I tried to honor my pledge to you to accept Lyon as the GOAT.. Sorry I can not. His performances prohibit me.

To be brutally honest Lyon's effort in that test was not up to his standards and frankly test standards. His bowling while early on was economical it was not penetrative. Yes he lured Root into a wild shot. Root should have known better. His only other was off a wild slog by a #9/10. He did bowl  what may have been the winning wicket but by this time Paine was desperate for a wicket so had used all reviews. Lyon needed to have bowled that ball an hour earlier when he was being carted round and out of the ground with disdain. Whether his poor performance up to the moment he fluffed that run out was playing on his mind.. or not he had a poor test. To me he is no longer indispensable to this series. So if Manchester is a seamers wicket bring in Siddle for him.

Someone posted that the last day scenario was tailor made for Starc with his white ball experience . Yes makes sense as the final hour specially was akin to a white ball game. certainly had white ball fielding positions. This got me thinking. What if in a perfect world we were permitted temporary substitutes. Bring Starc in for the last hour and let him work away at Stokes with his white ball arsenal. Then when the serious bowling resumes send him back to the bench.

g'day jaszy. I always add another for his keeping and captaincy.

4 seamers only is a lot of work for the likes of Patty, Patto, Starc, and Haze. Haze and Sids are probably upto 22 overs in the day. Im not sure Patto is. But then you will also have potential over rate problems and be forced to bowl Labu, as your quicks have some long run ups and take a while to get through the overs. That said, I am huge fan of dropping spinners on seamer tracks. Why are they in the team? Patty will just have to get back to his mark a bit quicker.

I find Warne's aggressive response of the twitter sledging of Lyon interesting. I know he gave it to Marlon Samuels in the past, but tbf, they had bad blood from playing in the BBL together, and it was served back cold on him in the t20 wc final in 2016, but has Warne seriously never sledged further current players from twitter in retirement...?





 

No - stuff the substitutes. Its not NFL or NBA. 

You bring in Starc, and England then brings out Ollie Pope to bat 10 instead of Broad?

That's not cricket. 

Quality post, Baggers. 

Their is a push among my fellow keyboard warriors for Mitch Marsh to come in for one of our dud batsmen. Makes sense as the fourth paceman if they hold onto Lyon. Bowling is Marsh's stronger suit but he may just come good with the willow too. If picked he has to bat at #7 away from the pressure. 

I wrote "in a perfect world" Paddles. Tongue firmly planted in cheek mate. 

Some thoughts on Paine's captaincy and position in the team.

I've always subscribed to the view that the  best keeper  takes the position, regardless of batting. Dropped catches can cost 100 runs. Wicketkeeper is the key catching position. Even though others have shown Bairstow's better contribution  with the bat, Sangakarra analysed how Paine is the better keeper with freeze frames.

in News Corp, who don't let posters access it free of charge , because of a pay wall, Ben Horne elucidates   Paine's captaincy.

* Horne argued those calling for his sacking have short memories. He argues that Australia were in a position to have challenged for the Ashes in England for the first time  since 2001, is due significantly to his leadership in steadying the ship.

* Horne contends Paine is a superb statesman. Moeroever, he has united a broken dressing room.

*Horne advances that Paine could benefit in having access to Ian Chappell or Michael Clarke's tactical nous, but Chappell himself posts no Aussie captain in history would have handled the predicament  as well as Paine has just done in the wake of a crushing  defeat in the 3rd Test.

* Horne  suggests those calling for Smith's ascension to the captaincy, forget he  struggled as leader on the field, and, was never a great tactician as a captain. When Pakistan amassed 450  at he Gabba in 2016, he argus Smith was worse as a captain than Paine was against Stokes.

* As we stand, Horne posits Paine is on the verge  of one the greatest performances by an Aussie captain.

* Yes he got  DRS challenges wrong, but he has got a lot else right that has been overlooked.

I didn't see the last 100 runs scored by England, but I think it would be folly to drop Lyon.

I thought he bowled a lot of balls that were close to taking wickets, but he bowled without luck.

It would still  be nice to have a 4th seamer/all rounder to ease the workload on three pace bowlers who need to bowl less overs - Cummins, Hazlewood, Patto and Starc. 

How did Labu bowl?

I am really surprised how some posters seem to denigrate Hazlewood after bowling superbly in most of the 3rd Test.

Those lauding his  qualities, Baggers et el, were right.

I can't believe anyone can argue otherwise.

Some merit in Mitch Marsh's selection, but Neser may be a better bowler..

Wade has scored a century and a 30 in six innings and little else.

Shame so few batters have decent averages in this series. 

I'm not a fan of dropping specialist spinners for a 4th seamer.

They change the rhythm of  the game. Particularly if you can get Lyon at one end and Labu at the other. 

Batters have to face a lot of balls , probably five times as many in a given period of time. They have little time to switch  off in between balls.

lyon bowled ok actually. A bunch of the sixes were mishits and should have been catches. He also generated two dropped catches of stokes (Warner in the slips and Harris at 3rd man)

These modern bats and short grounds mean you can beat a batter and still go for 6 which is a bit unfair

Batting averages and bowling averages are dropping. I just did a study for 97 - 2006 vs 2013 to now. I can cut and paste it for you if you want. Baggers has no doubt seen it.

Its very fair. Pitches are turning and seaming more (in WI, Eng, Sa, and Asia - Ind, Pak, SL where there is ball tracking data), its harder than ever (since before 1960) to make runs...

Is Smith expected to be back to do a Ponting at Old Trafford?
Anyway that Leeds Test served up the perfect denouement to my holiday in England :-)

Something has to be done about our (top) batting order though...

Im a huge fan of it. Took NZ years and years to finally pull the plug on them last season. And it was the right move. Went to a 5 prong seam attack with 4 quciks and Lord Colin as the allrounder. Destroyed the Bangas with a seam blitz after Ajaz had been struggling to make effect vs SL.

WI went 4 seamers also vs England and won in WI. Holder got suspended after winning the 3 match series in 2 tests for over rates. LOL.

Then SA did it vs Pakistan. Bare in mind, Maharaj is a gun, their best spinner in decades and decades. So it was a big call for them. Also Faf got suspended for over rates for the third test after winning the series in 2 tests. LOL. 

But Faf and Pak both conceded, its why SA beat Pak in SA. SA just didnt give away free spinner runs. 

I had made a thread arguing with someone, whether spinners were needed in England, SA, Aus and NZ... the season before.  Updated after Rashid went an entire test match in England without bowling a single ball. Then last home for us season - it started happening! And it kept winning series :)

India did it to Aus at Perth, but lost.... Their issue wasnt the strategy, but 2 things, they couldnt chase 286 to win, AND they played Yadav who took only 2 wickets for 139 runs.... He has never played a test since... Unless there is an injury crisis, or some serious holidays - I think his intl career is done...Sharma, Shami, Bumrah are the main 3 - with BK the 4th...

They can - but they don't average out like that. Ever. Even if you drop Tendulkar, say he averaged 1 life per innings before out, and he averaged 54 - that's 27 per drop. A bowling dominant team, will have the keeper take about 2 dismissals an innings. If you start talking the 1 percenters - if the run difference is huge - it makes sense to have Gilchrist over Healey... and you all saw that vs Pakistan in 1999. Gilly won the unwinnable with the bat. Its doesnt matter if he was never going to be as good as Healey with the gloves. He still took more dismissals per innings than Healey, as the seam stocks he kept too were much stronger than Reiffel, Whitney, Mcdermmot, Hughes, Lawson and whatever else Healey kept to...

I wouldn't give up Watling's ability to turn a disaster around (2  record partnerships batting at 7) for Blundell's glove work. Watling may only average 40 as a keeper, but he only makes big runs when needed. He never downhill ski's like Blundell did.  India use Pant, who is the worst keeper in intl cricket - but a batting average of near 45. Pant is so bad, that it starts to become an issue. Watling at least is not bad. He missed one stumping opportunity in the past series, was still mots... for his runs.... Pant is terrible - I think he will get dropped at some point in India keeping to spinners. But he is the extreme example of choosing the best batsman over the best keeper...

For Australia, Carey looks like a good keeper... He certainly looks a gun bat... He is making huge runs for Sussex right now continuing his WC form...

Thanks DC.

Haze has won you over DC. The second test too.  He only needed  seaming decks to bring out his potency. He has so often had to toil on Aussie roads and flat Asian decks.

Ok. I'd have liked Tim to give him longer. A fourth seamer is what is needed in the later portion of the game when the pitch seems to settle down and batting is easier. Hazlewood for instance bowled 31 overs last innings at Leeds. Six more than anyone else. and it was 31C that day. Reckon he may have been spent when Stokes took the tonk to him.

Australia XI to face Derbyshire: Usman Khawaja (c), Cameron Bancroft, Alex Carey (wk), Marcus Harris, Marnus Labuschagne, Mitch Marsh, Michael Neser, Peter Siddle, Steve Smith, Mitch Starc, Matthew Wade.

Khawaja skipper..interesting. Doubt if they are planning to drop him at Manchester. So he scores big against a rookie (likely) Derbshire side.. what does that prove? The decks will be made for batting to give us a false sense of security.

Batting averages and bowling averages are dropping. I just did a study for 97 - 2006 vs 2013 to now. I can cut and paste it for you if you want. Baggers has no doubt seen it.

No I have not seen it Paddles.

I've always subscribed to the view that the  best keeper  takes the position, regardless of batting. Dropped catches can cost 100 runs. Wicketkeeper is the key catching position. Even though others have shown Bairstow's better contribution  with the bat, Sangakarra analysed how Paine is the better keeper with freeze frames.

So have I DC.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27486154/usman-khawaja-australia-captain-why-not

Oh no - the Aussie media campaign to drop Paine has begun...

The issue I always raised is then who is captain? The answer according to cricinfo is - Qld and former Aus A captain, Ussie Khawaja...

Paine's problem is not just that he is the worst of test captains and wicket keepers at reviews, its his total and utter lack of runs of late...

Carey raises a problem being the ICC World Cup team wicket keeper - and fair enough. He outshone my favourite in Jos Buttler. Carey is in career form...

Now I expect DC to go ballistic about this and staunchly defend Paine. But there is a problem. He is not scoring runs. He is not reviewing well. As good as a champion he is of a bloke, he isn't ticking all the boxes.

Bollocks - Gilchrist or Healy - who you taking? Don't bs me :P

Gilchrist was the exception.  Besides, his keeping record is better than many think.

I don't think top quality batting is an integral  part of a keeper's skills set as I've said before. 

Many former captains and players have come out in defence of Paine, but it is usually a journo (often devoid of any professional cricket background) who have  opined  negatively, usually because they don't  have the knowledge to analyse  technical parts of game so they need something to write about.

I know about this because I'm professionally qualified in  another sport and was in the media. Many journos have little technical or tactical  knowledge of the sport they write about as they  have neither  coached or played at professional or semi -pro level.

Usman probably isn't a leader of men, and is doing less to justify his place in terms of performance  than Paine. The current captain is keeping better than Usman is batting ATM.