If the mediocre internationals are better than our mediocre locals ...then play them .

I remember playing with many foreign players when I was an Aussie kid starting out in seniors.
I learned so much from them that Aussie players could not teach me...but the thing I noticed most was their passion...there was no such thing as a training game...they were as hard (and often as dirty) at training as in competition games .
This was a steep learning curve for me .
That "hardness" or "edge" is what Pim Verbeek meant when he famously said that training in a European club was better than playing for an A-League club .
Don't get me wrong ..I think we have come a long way since he said that ...but I get what he meant.
Foreign players bring something to our game that young Aussies don't get to experience in Academies and in Juniors.

NEC minnit , sign a overseas left back !

If it meant my team played good football instead of expecting local players of limited ability: I'm all for it. If there were more foreigners allowed, we'd finally see Australian players having to fight for their spots rather than just being guaranteed a gig because of their passport. There needs to be a balance of course, but we shouldn't be so downright negative about it all. Nobody would be complaining if teams went and signed players of proper quality, rather than signing older guys from the 'bargain bin' that a host of agents based in Australia provide teams with.

For those that are saying we should bring in an U23 rule. That type of rule was brought into the league in Singapore for 2018, with their reasoning being that it would help provide players for their national team in future years. What happened over the course of the season was that the standard of play league-wide went down, because teams didn't have as many experienced players in their squads [they had a limit of a 25-man squad] to guide them through games and training sessions. The rule was scrapped after a single season, because the FAS realized that it's a stupid idea. If a player is good enough, he will be there: irrespective of his age. Stop just handing first-team football for the sake of it, it needs to be earned. It happens enough in the NPL for goodness sake, we don't need to see it happening in the only professional league that we have.

For me as a player, I learned a hell of a lot more when I was 18 from the guys that were 28+ than I ever did from the other teenagers in the squad. It's up to coaches to find the right balance of youth and experience, not a silly league stipulation that just hands a younger player first-team football on a platter.

Dont disagree with the hardness aspect, I know a few guys who had been overseas and thats the first thing they comment on, that everything is at 100%.

Also interesting is that Honda commented on the same thing last season, ie how easy the "professional" training is here

Exactly, the foreigners need to be a lot better than the local players to really increase the standard of the league and at the moment with five visa players per squad the fourth and fifth foreigners players are not that much better or about the same quality as our better younger players.

 If they are not increasing the quality of the league by signing their fourth and fifth visa player, how are they going to improve the quality by adding a sixth visa player?
Unless the owners are prepared to fork out decent money to attract better quality foreigners there is no point raising the Visa numbers because just raising the Visa numbers will not increase the quality of football.

The decision to raise visa numbers is not about increasing the Football quality, its a business decision to increase the player pool which will decrease the amount most Australian players will be paid by the clubs, because they will have to accept less pay or a cheap foreigner will be signed in their place. 

I really would not worry too much about whether owners bring in too many ordinary foreign players .
The simple truth is foreign players generally cost more than young Aussie players.
The owners will now reap any financial rewards from their clubs .
You can rest assure that they will demand that any foreign players a coach wants will deliver plenty of bang for their buck .
I think the owners will have a completely different mindset from the past now that they can get a real return on their money if they run their clubs properly .
They will realise that if they spend some decent coin on a real "star" foreigner they may be able to recoup their costs through marketing etc.
Much will be different but it will happen slowly ...they won't go out and immediately spend like drunken sailors ...they will gradually try different things to see what works ..the same as they do in business.
We may see some interesting spending in the January transfer window .

Exactly. Extending the bench is the best way to bring in younger players. At the moment the managers are reticent to put youngsters on the bench. Allowing a 6 or 7 man bench would allow the manager more opportunities to blood young players. If they prove good enough they will quickly push out the journeymen.

 I hope you're right and they get good standard foreigners, they don't have to spend mega bucks going after big stars, they just have to recruit better and increase their spending appropriately. 

They need to get this right.

I don't think the quality of the league has very much to do metrics of the league.  If standard is important to the viewer they probably watch a Euro league.  

I think 5 is about right especially given that the ACL is 3,+1 if we go to 7 we are basically as a league saying we don't care at all about the ACL.  

The way to solve the merry go round of Aussie players is to fix the development pathways not decrease the spots available.  But you still need quality foreigners to mentor young players so I would be reluctant to go to 3+1. Maybe 4+1 though.  Honestly there is so many variables. 

Also with the foreigners outside the cap I don't think there would be any real change in quality of foreigners.  Signing big names does not make money.  It creates interest but doesn't return on the invis

I mean when I say that about them I mention that they have an fantastic player production where they can churn out players without the need of increasing the foreign places in teams.

Unlike the player production here which is so bad we need to increase the amount of foreign spots because the owners feel the local player pool is not up to the level in increasing the quality of the league.

Basically we have a small talent pool and the overall depth in teams isn’t that great.

Nobody wants to see an average joe blow when the alternatives with overseas football is too good.

Bring in quality otherwise it’s a waste of a spot.

We have to keep in mind to even its bring in more overseas players we should not assume more people will watch the league because at the end of the day a lot people still see the aleague as low quality so that itself won’t make a huge difference at the end of the day.

If people want to see quality they will still watch the overseas based leagues in Europe and South America.

You have to bring in big names with high quality if you to compete with the entertainment dollar which will be very hard to do (if that’s what the aleague owners hoping it to be). 
The MLS tried really hard but are still having a difficultly getting more respect.

Which is I prefer a more organic growth in improving the local production of players as a long term goal and overall finding our niche in the global market but it seems the owners have different ideas in quickly attracting that corporate dollar.

Why can't we bring in extra foreigners ...and... improve local talent ...they are not mutually exclusive.
Aussies will have to be better and harder to succeed...that is a good thing . At present there are too many below par Aussies playing in the A-League . The better the overall standard the better any Aussies playing in it will have to be .

I still see average foreign players even it’s improved a lot, but overall we need a better balance as one is trying to cover for the other.

The football public here is educated enough to still see average players no matter the background or age.

It would be a great day when the player production improves to the point where they capable of playing the highest level overseas whilst bringing in foreign talent they will continue to drive the standard year on year and we then know the aleague is in a good place.

And thats a flaw that is made worse by the salary cap. If we only have 100 good players then on average each team only has 9 to 10 good players. Compared to Japan and South Korea where they have over 20

I'm not sure of another football league where any one of 11 or 12 teams can win the title. In most leagues its 4 or 5 (with change over a longer period of time). What we are attempting to do is stupid, particularly given the lack of depth, and also that we are looking at 14 or 16 top tier teams

Excluding foreigners from the salary cap but keeping the salary cap for the Australian players as you suggested does not resolve the issue that we have a small talent pool and no depth. This can only be resolved by removing the cap so the quality of our top teams improve, and the gap closes over time

Removing the salary cap will de-regulate player values resulting in already ordinary players expecting to and inevitably being paid even more. Imagine how quickly the PFA will jump all over a change like that... they already do too good a job protecting the players and creating a cushy environment.

Also, if you start paying ordinary players more, foreign agents are going to get whiff of that and before you know it, it becomes even more expensive to lure quality foreigners over here. 

Garbage

The average A League players get paid one third of AFL / NRL players, and this is in a regulated market

A League players play more games, the ACL, are part of the Olyroos / Socceroos, play in the same venues, train the same - yet they get paid a fucking third

We have already seen W League players jump to the AFLW so think of how many athletes are aspiring to be part of our system where they have to go overseas to make a decent wage, or walk into the starting line up of any AFL team because they can pick up and kick a ball like that American did

We are no where near a situation where our players are being overpaid. In fact what we see time and time again is Asian countries offering peanuts plus salt above the peanuts we are offering and taking our players before they even mature

And to top it off you actually think that the price tag foreign players put on themselves is driven by the pissy wages we pay our players

We are part of a global market place and that drives the value of our players and the ones we attempt to lure. With rules in place that the bulk of our players must be Australian, there is some potential that clubs may try to overpay a small % in a fight for a signature but we are no where near that stage, and it wont happen to the extent people here fear

I'd be more likely to agree with your point if the PFA didn't exist and weren't so overly influential/protective of players rights. They are always the elephant in the room and can't be underestimated. It's largely because of the PFA that the A-League is so complacent and comfortable for players. Do you not think that they are going to push hard for a significant pay rise if the cap was scrapped? What are the players as a collective offering in return for a pay rise?

Only a minor percentage of players are involved in ACL, NT etc. each season and when you consider how much recycling goes on, there are certain players already being paid too much as it is. The quality of the league has definitely improved and continues to each season but not at a trajectory that justifies completely chopping the salary cap in one go. Progressively yes, but not immediately. 

Some of the transfer fees clubs have received from OS clubs for A-League players over the course of the competition has bordered on taking the piss at times when compared to what clubs in other 'development' type leagues receive, so I don't entirely agree that we are part of the global market place. 

I'm not saying we shouldn't get rid of the salary cap, I just think it needs to be thought through before such a big decision is made because there are some issues that will arise.

To the first point: A salary cap and minimum wage are two different things

To the second point: Dont assume that having a salary cap is the default action. Implementing a salary cap requires as much thought and planning as removing one. And I dont think our game has given more thought than "thats how it works in other codes", and now we have to deal with the issues that have arisen as a result

When it comes to the issue of the potential of overpaying players there has to be a reason to do so in the first place. No prize money. No relegation. No local transfer fees. The ACL doesn't bring in nearly enough money. The only real current reason to overpay for a player is if the club is certain they can sell the player overseas for substantially more than they have invested. Those situations are few and far between and also has plenty of risk associated with the investment. Then there is the issue of budgets. A club will always have a budget for a squad. Clubs are not profitable to begin with, they aren't going to want to dig that hole much deeper unless there is a genuine incentive. Also, if the cap is removed, it will almost definitely be replaced by some form of FFP rules which will also limit the amount clubs can spend.

Take the visa spots out of the salary cap but introduce a salary floor for each visa spot. A club can bring in as many visa players as they want but they have to be paid at least $750 000 in wages (just plucking a number out of the air based on the €750 000 floor for foreign players in the Dutch league). Also, subject visa spot players to some form of club financial fair play oversight.
Make the clubs really think about about the quality of the import player. Allows financially better off clubs to use funds for players.

On that basis we wouldn’t have signed either Broich or Berisha. 

Just watched the first half of the FFA cup match between MC and WSW. The player Najjarene missed three, that's THREE fairly simple shots because he is one footed and he remained on the park. Why wasn't he removed? That sort of ineptitude shouldn't be rewarded by being part of a professional football team. And he's supposed to be one of the young stars! SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You want to play these players more?

True. And Patrick Swansvijk for us. However we may have got many more high quality visa stars of their ilk under a system that encourages clubs to be more selective with their visa dollars. 
Every path has negatives. It is easy to snipe at any idea at all.

You do realise MLS franchises are going for $200mill +  ?..
and that is a comp that can attract the likes of Rooney , Ibrahimovic not far off their prime

Historically the best players the league have been internationals....most good local players head overseas after a good season or two in the league 

Also other domestic leagues in our region are carried by foreign players CSL, UAE etc all have big name international players who are head and shoulders better then you average player at that level. 

I would scrap the limits on foreign players and salary cap make the league good enough to compete on a globe stage