So that means that there are 700k people in Australia that have Optus purely for European football... imagine the streaming numbers we'd get for the A-league if we managed to get them both on the same service. 

It would. I suspect the owners have done this to force Fox Sports/Kayo’s hand in ongoing discussions - publicly Fox have been all doom n gloom on HAL viewing and this, well this kinda shoots that fox 

I'd reckon total viewing has not gone down much if any but Fox's revenue has gone down which is why they are painting a gloomy picture.

I think we’re at a point where total viewing has gone up significantly (100-150,000 on Kayo/Telstra plus 32k on Fox Sports is 3x last seasons average and double years we once considered good). 

The trouble is Fox Sports don’t gain commercially from Telstra and 100,000 of on Kayo is probably worth  only 30,000 on Fox Sports revenue wise

When a company is losing as much as Fox Sports are they just have to cut costs 

This is focus group research, done on behalf of the A league.  Focus group research generally means small sample size, and raises the question, how did they select the people in the focus group.  So, research done on a small group of people, on behalf of A league owners, who are looking for good news stories.  This is the research that said 500 000 people 'engaged' with the W league one weekend.  The same W league that just had a game with under 800 people turn up.  Treat with a pinch of salt.

I’m sorry but no, every time there is a piece of what looks like good news for the A League people are popping up dropping “buzz words” trying to look credible and discredit it without any genuine evidence or insight - if you have evidence that discredits these numbers then put it up .... because everything you posted there could apply to the OzTAM methodology also, you’d just need to post it on that thread instead. 

And to extrapolate on a point you made - the NRL gets modest attendance but massive viewing, you don’t see a correlation there between modest W-League attendance and (not quite massive but decent) viewing numbers? It’s fairly simple - with the exception of AFL in Melbourne people prefer to watch sport on tv rather than attend. 

You want another example - look at the Gabba: massive viewing figures for the test cricket but a crowd attendance of 12-13k. Attendance does not correlate to viewing! 

So unless you are saying NRL and Cricket viewing figures are flawed as well, then your argument does not stand up to scrutiny. People prefer to watch sport on tv so there is no correlation between attendance and viewing and that unpicks one thread of your argument. 

And this is now the second data point that suggests huge viewing on streaming services after numerous independent surveys pointed to widespread uptake of streaming. It’s convenient for people to dismiss the evidence because it doesn’t suit their narrative but we have enough evidence now (including the Roy Morgan research that says nearly two million people watch football regularly, plus numerous independent surveys and now this)  that comments like your “pinch of salt” statement can safely be ignored as utterly baseless. 

Then lets look at who commissioned this research and why. 

The A-League owners commissioned this because Kayo and Telstra won’t tell them what the streaming numbers actually are. In any commercial negotiations knowing these numbers is vital because it forms the basis of how the rights are valued. The commercial negotiations for a new tv rights deal will start late next year. 

Kayo/Telstra know exactly how many are streaming at any one time. And I mean EXACTLY how many people - it’s not a guess, or an estimate, or a mythical calculation it’s a straight out measurement (in real time) that tells them.  

So there is no point in the owners commissioning research that says 100k are streaming if Kayo knows it’s only 10k. That would be commercial suicide. 

The research cannot be as accurate as the actual numbers and there must be a margin for error BUT it does need to be in the same ballpark as the actual figure .... so if they’re saying 100-150k then the actual number is likely to be 80-120k if they’ve over estimated, or 120-170k if they’re on the low side.

But they are all in the same ball park. The thought that they’d concoct research for “good news” is laughable.

Firstly because it makes no difference to football today it’s not like sttendances will improve or more people will watch, and secondly, it would weaken their commercial negotiating position with Kayo and Telstra if these numbers were way off.

For this research to work, Kayo and Telstra need to know that football knows the scale of viewing ... and the owners will know that. Fuck this up and they’ll fuck up the contract negotiations that start next year. 

There will be another group of people that will be interested in these numbers and the methodology behind them - that’s the Ad Agencies that place stuff on broadcasts. They’ll scrutinise who did the research and how they did it so once again, the Hal owners would know this and take steps to ensure the data stands expert scrutiny - the last thing they’d need is experts in this field rubbishing their figures. 

So you’re selling salt but I’m not buying.

You’re trying to cast doubt on these numbers with no evidence and no credible logic. It’s just like saying “the moon landings didn’t happen” ... you can say it, but it doesn’t make it true - and that’s basically your post: you can write it down, but it doesn’t make it true. 

Engage is a broad term.
On any given weekend, you might have 20,000 attending games, the FTA game might have a reach of 100k, and then you have a few hundred thousand engaged in social media, checking the website, etc.

Not in this context. They specifically used it in terms of viewing in Kayo and Telstra. 100,000-150,000 watched each game

Wouldn't that make it a similar number to what turned up in Brisbane for the first test?

No evidence and no credible logic? The public at large has literally no idea of the methodology applied here or the numbers involved - and what we do know doesnt stack up with established data. Unlike Oztam and Roy Morgan survey data for which the methodology and corresponding numbers are generally published we have little to no idea where these numbers are derived from, or any context to place them in. All we know is that this report was commissioned by the Aleague clubs and will reflect their agenda in this.

However, as Luke Bould said on twitter this morning though, its not perfect, and given the lack of actual data its all you have to hang your hat on - but it doesnt make the reporting any less susceptible to criticism, and its more or less the same as if it was

WSW v Melbourne City
Fox: 27,000
Streaming: 117,000

They are excellent streaming numbers.

The Fox number was dire but it goes to show how the viewing habits have changed considerably. 

I think Bluebird’s taking the piss

Do you think 500 000 people watched W league in one weekend?  If you dont, then you have a problem, wether your 'buying' the salt or not.  If you do, you have to explain how 500 000 are streaming the W league, but no one watches on FTA, or goes to games.  Because its the same research that gives us the number for W league, that gives us the numbers it does for the A league.

Its saying 500k interact with W-league, be it on social media, articles, highlights. I read w-league articles and watch the occasional game but I'm unlikely to go to a game, Im sure you are the same with AFLW.

Anytime I see a “study” that claims thousands of people “engaged” with a sport or an event, I know it’s bullshit. 

“Engaged” usually means “knew that it existed”...or “drove past an advertisement of it”. 

The people on this website that clutch at ratings straws by pointing to invisible Kayo figures or streaming are just sad. We’ve been reliably going backwards season after season after season - on literally all the metrics that matter. 

Im genuinely worried about what happens in 2 years. 

Yeah, we're the sad ones, worry on worry boy.

Ok

Everything is fantastic. Millions are watching on Kayo. Nothing can stop us. The next broadcast deal will be in the billions. 

Better?

Well, your fantastical ideas are just as deluded as your nihilistic ones. It just is what it is not growing much not shrinking much, just treading water at the moment.

Just went on Fox Sports website.
Of the top 15 articles, 11 of them are about football. 8 of them reporting on last nights A league games.

After last night yes, but after Friday nights match next to nothing. 

Football A-League Fox Sports
Adelaide v Melbourne Victory 53,000
Perth v Sydney 25,000
Wellington v Brisbane 17,000

Kayo Sports and My Football
Adelaide v Melbourne Victory 124,000
Perth v Sydney 97,000
Wellington v Brisbane 145,000

Wellington 17,000. And the owners want to introduce another Auckkand team lol.
Time to cut them off and bring in Canberra

I mean i might be wrong, but dont NZ viewers watch on Sky Sports, not Fox.

Do you enjoy being a dick?

Any numbers for ABC?

Foxtel potentially losing Super Rugby to Optus:

https://amp.theage.com.au/sport/rugby-union/foxtel-threatens-to-cut-ties-with-rugby-union-20191124-p53dlt.html

$30m/year. 

That downs the myth that Optus are worried about production. 

Would be interesting to see if Optus threw their hat into the ring for the HAL. Potentially another 100k to their 700k? That would be a decent boost to our numbers as well.

I'm not sure if RA would be viewing this as a positive, although I don't know what the current rights are worth.