Aus v NZ 2nd Test


Aus v NZ 2nd Test

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flyslip
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Keyboard Warrior - 29 Dec 2019 1:59 PM
baggygreenmania - 29 Dec 2019 12:58 PM

If they are number 2 in the world  NZ have been poor by their own high  standards. 

Why? 

I agree with Vaughn's comments. The rankings don't always mean a lot and being rated no.2 by the ICC doesn't necessarily mean you are the second best team in the world. This series isn't really unexpected or an upset the way a genuine no5 v no.2 would normally be seen as, even by kiwi fans (at least the ones who understand cricket). More of a disappointment at the lack of competitiveness than anything.

The fact is they had the chance to put any doubts to rest and have failed miserably. Even if they fought a tough series might have been enough, but they simply aren't anywhere near good enough. Gotta say I'm enjoying it too.

They aren't a bad team, but apart from India who are clearly no1, it's difficult to place the next four teams at the moment. The Saffers are regrouping after retirements of some atg's, the Poms are over their quest to win the WC now, and the Aussies are putting their own troubles behind them.

When the dust settles I think the kiwis will find themselves outside of the top four. India won't be an easy series for them. The only way they might beat us is if we get complacent for the next one now the series is done. For all of the talk, they don't seem much better or worse than kiwi sides we have played over the last decade or so. It's the same old, same old. 
Edited
10 Months Ago by flyslip
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Combined team so far.

Warner
Blundell
Labuschagne
Smith
Wade
Head
Paine
Pattinson
Cummins
Starc
Lyon

Hope Paine keeps them "up" for the next match, with the series decided. Now that they're down where they belong, let's put them down even further. No time to slacken off.


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flyslip - 30 Dec 2019 11:21 AM
Combined team so far.

Warner
Blundell
Labuschagne
Smith
Wade
Head
Paine
Pattinson
Cummins
Starc
Lyon

Hope Paine keeps them "up" for the next match, with the series decided. Now that they're down where they belong, let's put them down even further. No time to slacken off.


I'd consider de grandhomme in a combined 11
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grazorblade - 30 Dec 2019 11:30 AM
flyslip - 30 Dec 2019 11:21 AM

I'd consider de grandhomme in a combined 11

In mine for sure! 
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flyslip - 30 Dec 2019 11:21 AM
Combined team so far.

Warner
Blundell
Labuschagne
Smith
Wade
Head
Paine
Pattinson
Cummins
Starc
Lyon

Hope Paine keeps them "up" for the next match, with the series decided. Now that they're down where they belong, let's put them down even further. No time to slacken off.


Watling must be considered. 

I’m not sure my former student Wade warrants selection? 
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flyslip - 30 Dec 2019 2:15 AM
Keyboard Warrior - 29 Dec 2019 1:59 PM

I agree with Vaughn's comments. The rankings don't always mean a lot and being rated no.2 by the ICC doesn't necessarily mean you are the second best team in the world. This series isn't really unexpected or an upset the way a genuine no5 v no.2 would normally be seen as, even by kiwi fans (at least the ones who understand cricket). More of a disappointment at the lack of competitiveness than anything.

The fact is they had the chance to put any doubts to rest and have failed miserably. Even if they fought a tough series might have been enough, but they simply aren't anywhere near good enough. Gotta say I'm enjoying it too.

They aren't a bad team, but apart from India who are clearly no1, it's difficult to place the next four teams at the moment. The Saffers are regrouping after retirements of some atg's, the Poms are over their quest to win the WC now, and the Aussies are putting their own troubles behind them.

When the dust settles I think the kiwis will find themselves outside of the top four. India won't be an easy series for them. The only way they might beat us is if we get complacent for the next one now the series is done. For all of the talk, they don't seem much better or worse than kiwi sides we have played over the last decade or so. It's the same old, same old. 

Haven’t the Kiwis outperformed is in Asia? 
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Decentric - 30 Dec 2019 11:37 AM
flyslip - 30 Dec 2019 2:15 AM

Haven’t the Kiwis outperformed is in Asia? 

I don't remember us playing them there lol.

I'll believe it when they can start getting matches off India in India.
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grazorblade - 30 Dec 2019 11:30 AM
flyslip - 30 Dec 2019 11:21 AM

I'd consider de grandhomme in a combined 11

 Not saying he definitely shouldn't be in there, purely a matter of preference, but who would he replace?

He isn't taking up a bowlers spot with his dibbly dobblers, surely he isn't replacing a batsmen? That innings he played yesterday was befitting a genuine no.11. Looked like he gave up and didn't want to be there.

Stats aren't everything and many other factors can be overlooked when relying on them too much. He is a very good cricketer, not doubting that. Not sure he deserves a place though, not on performance.


Watling must be considered. 
I’m not sure my former student Wade warrants selection? 


Paine has well and truly outplayed Watling. He has had a good series, very good behind the stumps. Especially to spin, Paine's keeping is very tidy.

Wade hasn't been great, but he is a gritty character and a good team man. He gets the nod as there really isn't anyone deserving from the kiwi camp anyway. You should have taught him to duck though! lol.

Most runs
PlayerMatInnsNORunsHSAveBFSR1005004s6s
M Labuschagne (AUS)24027514368.7550354.67120272
TM Head (AUS)24020311450.7540350.37110250
SPD Smith (AUS)2401518537.7544533.93010161
DA Warner (AUS)2401414335.2526653.00000130
TA Blundell (NZ)12013612168.0022959.38100170
TD Paine (AUS)2301187939.3324548.16011110
LRPL Taylor (NZ)2401088027.0020851.92010120
JA Burns (AUS)240975324.2526636.4601191
MS Wade (AUS)241973832.3321046.1900090
BJ Watling (NZ)240774019.2521535.8100090
C de Grandhomme (NZ)240763319.0013158.0100071
TWM Latham (NZ)240765019.0023532.3401160
HM Nicholls (NZ)240613315.2512548.8000141
KS Williamson (NZ)240573414.2510156.43001100
MA Starc (AUS)230543018.006583.0700071
PJ Cummins (AUS)230332011.0012227.0400140
MJ Santner (NZ)24032278.0010530.4700150
N Wagner (NZ)2423218*16.003396.9600132
TG Southee (NZ)24024106.005345.2800030
JL Pattinson (AUS)1111414*-11127.2700020
NM Lyon (AUS)231984.502339.1300020
TA Boult (NZ)110888.001361.5300001
JA Raval (NZ)120211.00287.1400000
LH Ferguson (NZ)12211*-911.1100000
JR Hazlewood (AUS)11100*-0-00000


Edited
10 Months Ago by flyslip
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https://www.news18.com/cricketnext/news/icc-world-test-championship-points-table-india-remain-top-australia-claim-vital-points-2439415.html
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Cheers, Baggers. 

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Decentric - 30 Dec 2019 11:36 AM
flyslip - 30 Dec 2019 11:21 AM

Watling must be considered. 

I’m not sure my former student Wade warrants selection? 

Tim remains at keeper Watling batman only in Wade's spot.
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baggygreenmania - 31 Dec 2019 11:50 AM
Decentric - 30 Dec 2019 11:36 AM

Tim remains at keeper Watling batsman only in Wade's spot. We then have a back up keeper if Paine is injured.



Edited
10 Months Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 31 Dec 2019 11:50 AM
Decentric - 30 Dec 2019 11:36 AM

Tim remains at keeper Watling batman only in Wade's spot.

When I watched Watling he did little wrong when keeping. 
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flyslip - 30 Dec 2019 12:13 PM
grazorblade - 30 Dec 2019 11:30 AM

 Not saying he definitely shouldn't be in there, purely a matter of preference, but who would he replace?

He isn't taking up a bowlers spot with his dibbly dobblers, surely he isn't replacing a batsmen? That innings he played yesterday was befitting a genuine no.11. Looked like he gave up and didn't want to be there.

Stats aren't everything and many other factors can be overlooked when relying on them too much. He is a very good cricketer, not doubting that. Not sure he deserves a place though, not on performance.


Watling must be considered. 
I’m not sure my former student Wade warrants selection? 


Paine has well and truly outplayed Watling. He has had a good series, very good behind the stumps. Especially to spin, Paine's keeping is very tidy.

Wade hasn't been great, but he is a gritty character and a good team man. He gets the nod as there really isn't anyone deserving from the kiwi camp anyway. You should have taught him to duck though! lol.

Most runs
PlayerMatInnsNORunsHSAveBFSR1005004s6s
M Labuschagne (AUS)24027514368.7550354.67120272
TM Head (AUS)24020311450.7540350.37110250
SPD Smith (AUS)2401518537.7544533.93010161
DA Warner (AUS)2401414335.2526653.00000130
TA Blundell (NZ)12013612168.0022959.38100170
TD Paine (AUS)2301187939.3324548.16011110
LRPL Taylor (NZ)2401088027.0020851.92010120
JA Burns (AUS)240975324.2526636.4601191
MS Wade (AUS)241973832.3321046.1900090
BJ Watling (NZ)240774019.2521535.8100090
C de Grandhomme (NZ)240763319.0013158.0100071
TWM Latham (NZ)240765019.0023532.3401160
HM Nicholls (NZ)240613315.2512548.8000141
KS Williamson (NZ)240573414.2510156.43001100
MA Starc (AUS)230543018.006583.0700071
PJ Cummins (AUS)230332011.0012227.0400140
MJ Santner (NZ)24032278.0010530.4700150
N Wagner (NZ)2423218*16.003396.9600132
TG Southee (NZ)24024106.005345.2800030
JL Pattinson (AUS)1111414*-11127.2700020
NM Lyon (AUS)231984.502339.1300020
TA Boult (NZ)110888.001361.5300001
JA Raval (NZ)120211.00287.1400000
LH Ferguson (NZ)12211*-911.1100000
JR Hazlewood (AUS)11100*-0-00000


looks like de grandhomme was less influential than I remember!
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Decentric - 30 Dec 2019 11:37 AM
flyslip - 30 Dec 2019 2:15 AM

Haven’t the Kiwis outperformed is in Asia? 

Well yes. Yes NZ has. That is how NZ over took Aus and SA. ;)

Aus gets pantsed by Pak all the time over there, and swept by SL, NZ actually hasn't any of those series since before 2012... believe it or not. I dont't remember the year of our last lost, but I do remember tying SL there in 2012, and Pak 2014, beating Pak 2018 and tying SL 2019.

For some reason, we go okay with the spin. Outside India.

You can pick and choose opponents all you like, aka cherry picking, but NZ in Asia goes better than SA and Aus lately. NZ has still never lost a test to Bangladesh for instance. SA also suffered a massive shock loss to SL at home due in no small part to the best test innings on 2019 (you can debate the Stokes one all day too - the debate has been well announded on criclet sites).

Amazed none of the combined teams have Wagner in them. Currently #2 in world rankings, he has climbed despite bowling to Warner, Labu and Smith at their home...
Edited
10 Months Ago by Paddles
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baggygreenmania - 31 Dec 2019 11:50 AM
Decentric - 30 Dec 2019 11:36 AM

Tim remains at keeper Watling batman only in Wade's spot.

Watling hasn't been very good batting so far. Not sure how you could have him as a batsmen?

You could probably have Taylor instead of Wade, but as a composite team it's more of who is best in their position.
Edited
9 Months Ago by flyslip
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As to the bowling make up based on this series, it's Aussies all the way so far. Wagner and Southee have plenty of wickets, but at greater cost as they've had no on else much and no spinner to share wickets with as yet (none to speak of anyway lol). The Aussie bowling has largely been the difference, Starc with a match winning performance in the first, Cummins with a "five fa" and Patto with 6 wickets @ 11.5 from the last match. That second innings in Melbourne was a superb bowling effort. 

Will be interesting to see what difference the spinner selection (Sommerville) makes in the next one for the kiwis, don't know much about him tbh. If he is any good, or at least good enough to hold fort at one end it should be helpful.

Most wickets
PlayerMatInnsOversMdnsRunsWktsBBIBBMAveEconSR510
N Wagner (NZ)24115.223284144/837/13320.282.4649.400
TG Southee (NZ)2499.422309125/699/16225.753.1049.810
MA Starc (AUS)2459.514186115/529/9716.903.1032.610
NM Lyon (AUS)2468.510227104/636/11122.703.2941.300
PJ Cummins (AUS)2468.41815285/285/7519.002.2151.510
JL Pattinson (AUS)1227.056963/346/6911.502.5527.000
C de Grandhomme (NZ)2474.01516642/682/8241.502.24111.000
M Labuschagne (AUS)2313.023321/91/1116.502.5339.000
JR Hazlewood (AUS)111.21011/01/00.000.008.000
JA Raval (NZ)1113.013311/331/3333.002.5378.000
TA Boult (NZ)1240.0312111/911/121121.003.02240.000
MJ Santner (NZ)2469.0625011/221/104250.003.62414.000
TA Blundell (NZ)113.00130---4.33-00
TM Head (AUS)215.01130---2.60-00
MS Wade (AUS)223.00210---7.00-00
LH Ferguson



Edited
9 Months Ago by flyslip
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Decentric - 31 Dec 2019 1:10 PM
baggygreenmania - 31 Dec 2019 11:50 AM

When I watched Watling he did little wrong when keeping. 

Hasn't done much wrong, just hasn't been as good as Paine. He did miss a stumping if I recall correctly (Smith in the first match), doesn't seem as accomplished keeping to Santner's "straight breaks" as Paine is to spin, and hasn't been as good with the bat as Paine. Paine had a very good match at Melbourne.

Still one match to go though.
Edited
9 Months Ago by flyslip
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If the kiwis are playing a specialist spinner who is used to the conditions, they would be better off trusting him to do the job, then drop Santner and CDG and bring in another batsmen. 
Edited
9 Months Ago by flyslip
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