I agree with much of your synopsis Enzo.. I really do. The "response" from the scientific community AND governments around the world was appallingly incoherent. Terrifyingly criminal even I agree 100%.

I circle around to the original argument though, what else is "average Joe" supposed to do? As a family man with young kids, elderly parents and a minimal grasp of the scientific intricacies of this global phenomenon who do "I" trust? The 98 doctors and a democratically elected government I believe is mandated to operate in my best interests or the 2 people on the internet whose closest allies seem to be religious nutjobs and anti-communists? I dont have a Masters in Science - shit struggled enough for my bachelors and my uni was only highest ranked in pot smoking and fun :) - but know enough about statistics to understand that 98% of people agreeing with something is a fairly strong indicator that it should be correct..... Now the reasons why that 98% agreed could indeed have been corrupted by outside influence... ofcourse they could, but historically the world doenst do very well in a crisis... Spanish Flue a hundred years ago was another doozy, I bet there where people back then arguing about dictator Dan forcing them to wear masks and have a curfew.... but we got through that alright?

I mean how long do you want to go on for? Could be here all day.

Hebrews 11:6 
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Ephesians 6:16
In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one.

Romans 3:22 
The righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:

Muz, if you post your sentiments in a new thread, I'll answer what I can in that new thread. This present thread is about Covid issues, and it would get mixed up with divergent topics. Suffice it to say, faith is in something. And that something has evidence. In all those three books/epistles, Hebrews, Ephesians, Romans, if you read the entire books, the substance is contained in the overall books. It can be misleading to formulate ideas just on random Bible verses without looking at, not just the context of the chapter, but the entire context of the whole book. And how all the books of the New Testament align to say the same thing. And how the New Testament relates to the fulfilment of the Old Testament.

Hindsight is 20 / 20 though isn't it?

Hindsight my arse. 

Thank you my brother in Christ :)

Nah mate, not hindsight.... I was scared shitless about how this would evolve when the first reports started coming out of cases in Italy and France.....  Told the wife tos tock up on essentials and meds for kids etc becuase our hospital system is going to shit itself....

It wasn't highsight. It was a fork in the road that revealed how people make life-changing decisions.

Very early on around early 2021, a friend sent me one of the earliest videos showing the testimony of many dozens of GPs warning of dangers of the new mRNA technology that was so vastly different from all past conventional vaccines. The video had little technical information, just GP's warning.

Before that, I had automatically assumed I would naturally take the Covid vaccine when it finally came out in late 2021 early 2022. My response was to pause a decision and wait for my information. My trait is to go by evidence - and at that stage, there was hardly any information.

But what I noticed, even at that early stage, there was a stark divergence in how most of my friends made their decisions. So many firmly proclaimed to me that they would just follow their GP's advice. To me, that is not logical. If you happen to go to a GP who says one thing -- and another GP down the road says another thing -- there is no logic that you just go with the GP that you happen to go to.

Also, so many others were persuaded by GPs who were their personal friends and family. Once again, there is no logic to it, that a GP who is your friend is more trustworthy than a GP who is not -- assuming both of them are giving their sincere professional opinion.

What I discovered - and it confirmed an observation I had made years earlier -- is that most people are primarily driven to follow those people that they trust. This means, once most people decide to follow those that they trust - there is virtually no way you can persuade them otherwise based on facts and data. That is because, the vast majority of people make decisions based on who they trust - not by grappling and looking at facts and data for themselves.

On this page, Monoethnic Social Club said, "what else is "average Joe" supposed to do?"

To me, me being an average John Smith as well, our task is not to make scientific decisions because most of us are not technically qualified. I myself do not have a degree in the biological sciences - I'm more in the heavy industry scientific side of things.

But what it boils down to is the ability to choose between a number of experts who are in massive disagreement. Many experts are able to distill the key ideas, such as in TED Talks - so we, the average people, cannot say the vital information was not made accessible to us. There were so many experts posting urgent videos in simple form that even the simplest people could grasp what they were saying. So it wasn't that the information was not there in simple form. The problem was, most people do not make decisions based on facts. Rather, they make decisions based on who the trust the most. And their display of trust was shown by a refusal to see any information that did not come from Mainstream sources - and a mocking of people that did.

It would not have been fun, in this era, to be those people -- the 3% to 5% who took a different path.

Even on this forum, you see human nature at work - that when evidence and facts are presented, the majority trend is to mock the source, and feel they're doing the right thing to not even look at the data. Why? Because those people's core driving force is to go with those that they trust, rather than looking at facts and information that is presented to them.

In a sense, I don't blame people - because we're all busy people - and have limited time to pour over videos and websites. But in a case of something that can affects your life's health and those of your family, I felt it was needed to put in that time.

Got as far as reading 'dangers of mRNA' and left it at that.

Nobel prize for physiology and medicine just handed out to the developers of that technology for covid so yeah nah. I'm afraid your anecdotes don't trump that.

You're wasting your time with these ridiculous long winded responses. 

You've got nothing.

Well maybe you need to stop sniping from the sidelines, get into politics and show them how it should be done.

You clearly have the answers to absolutely everything. There's no grey with you just black or white. No subject you are not across, no doubt about anything you say, no problems or worries regards the nuances of extremely complicated medical, political or social issues.

If only the president of the US, Israel, Hamas, the Victorian, NSW, Queensland government, the head of the WHO, the UN and God knows who else had a direct line to Enzo then all the trials and tribulations of the world would be sorted in an afternoon.

Do you ever get tired of being 100% correct all the time?

Just the knowledge that you have the solution to everything must be an enormous weight on your shoulders. It must be absolutely exhausting.

I meant with regards to how the whole thing was handled.

In retrospect a quick phone call to Enzo and we all would have known what to do and how the government would handle it in accordance with EBP*.


*Enzo's Best Practise.

haha.

You're too kind.  There were and are million of others who saw what I saw, asked what I asked and know what I know.  I'm not special.

On the contrary, you accuse me of lacking nuance at the same time as you ad hominem attack because in your eyes everyone else is a flat earther, 5G, 15 minute city-conspiracy theorist- sky news-watching insurrectionist-with a primary school education married to his cousin living in his mom's basement, not getting any pussy, racist, mysogynist.

Thirty years ago at my course welcome by the Prof, he said:  "We'll' teach you a lot.  Don't believe any of it.  Question the published papers.  Question the authors.  Question your lecturers.  Question your instructors.  Always retain doubt".

That doesn't happen anymore.  I mentor under-grads every year. They question nothing.

No need for that:


On November 1, 2005, I announced the National Strategy for Pandemic Influenza, a comprehensive approach to addressing the threat of pandemic influenza. Our Strategy outlines how we are preparing for, and how we will detect and respond to, a potential pandemic.......


GEORGE W. BUSH
THE WHITE HOUSE
May 2006

https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/homeland/pandemic-influenza-implementation.html

And the local version updated from 2009:

https://www.health.gov.au/resources/publications/australian-health-management-plan-for-pandemic-influenza-ahmppi?language=en

Amazing. Amazing. Do you realise, Muz, that you did exactly what I said the simple-folk do ... What you did is, the instant you read something that is against the Mainstream experts, you shut your ears, and refused to go on.

That is what I said the simple-folk do.

When I say "simple-folk" - I do not mean un-educated or un-intelligent. I have friends who are highly educated, and smart enough to be successful in top professions, loaded with money. But they think like you, like the Masses.

It is an attitude that they leave their brain at the doorstep, just trust the experts that the Mainstream tells them to trust - and will refuse to even look at anything else. That's the simple-folk way of living. Most people do that.

If you are persuaded by Nobel Prize winners, why weren't you persuaded by Luc Montagnier, French virologist and joint recipient of the Nobel Prize of Physiology or Medicine 2008?

And regarding the foolishness of the way the Mainstream handled lockdowns and vaccines, why weren't you persuaded by Dr. Michael Levitt, biophysicist and professor of structural biology, Stanford University, 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry, who signed "the Great Barrington Declaration" along with 939,000+ doctors and scientists who protested the way the Mainstream handled the pandemic. [ gbdeclaration.org ]

Why? Because the Mainstream conditioned you to reject anything that the Mainstream does not tell you.

Never head of the GBD so we went and had a read.  Not saying I agree, but I'm not surprised how the scientific establishment used Big Tech to make personal attacks on the character of the highly-respected signatories.

The personal attack that stands out is against John_Ioannidis.  The guy holds or has held numerous high ranking academic posts across a 30 year career.  Crucially, he is a world authority on evidenced-based medicine and epidemiology and has exposed that most scientific, psychological, social and economic publications cannot be reproduced because they are infected by various biases.

His paper "Why Most Published Research Findings Are False" was the most-accessed article in the history of Public Library of Science (PLOS) as of 2020, with more than three million views.

When they went after Ioannides, he was accused of not declaring a conflict of interest by accepting $5000 funding from an airline.  Later this was found to be irrelevant.

Compare that with Peter Daszak.  He heads a $150 million business that had a multi-million dollar direct relationship with the Wuhan Virus Institute in Wuhan, was then appointed to a leadership role by the WHO team that went to Wuhan to investigate the origin of COVID, and when the heat was on him and the WIV, wrote a paper published in The Lancet that defended the Wuhan Institute of Virology before any investigation had taken place.  No conflict there.  Nothing to see folks..

For me, a big regret was how the Establishing took down Australian Professor Robert Clancy at The University of Newcastle's School of Biomedical Sciences and Pharmacy (Immunology and Microbiology).

When Professor Clancy spoke to the Royal Society, they listed his credentials.

https://www.royalsoc.org.au/blog/science-week-2020-the-covid-curve-in-context

And yet, because Professor Clancy supported the use of Ivermectin, the System turned on him. For instance, his own university declared that Professor Clancy is "not an expert".

https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/story/7111340/newcastle-uni-says-professor-backing-kelly-virus-claims-not-an-expert/

The average Aussie Muz does not understand what is an FDA "Emergency Use Authorisation". It's when a new medicine has not had time to go through the usual safety checks - but the situation is so dire to be seen as an emergency - that the FDA gives an EUA approval to use the inadequately-tested drug, simply because "there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives." Here is the FDA website that stipulates that an EUA Emergency Use cannot be granted if there are alternatives.

https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/emergency-use-authorization


Hence, by definition of an EUA, Muz needs to grasp the fact that, if the System had even admitted that there was an alternative to the vaccines, then the System would not have been allowed to vaccinate anyone with the EUA experimental Covid vaccines. i.e. zero profit for Big Pharma.

So the System had to shut down anyone, like Professor Robert Clancy other other credentialed doctors, who claimed that there were alternative treatments.

The System even made doctors in the U.S. - who prescribed Ivermectin - to undergo psychiatric evaluation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10411699/Doctor-treated-COVID-patients-Ivermectin-license-suspended.html#comments

And so, even when scientific data showed that Ivermectin (costing around $3) had better efficacy than Molnupiravir (costing US$1,000 per dose) - somehow people cheered when doctors were stripped of their medical licences, and forced to undergo psychiatric evaluation, merely for prescribing a drug that many trials showed had good success against Covid.

https://c19ivm.org/meta.html

Even these new bivalent boosters in October 2023, they are being issued under "Emergency Use Authorisation" (EUA).

https://www.theepochtimes.com/health/fda-has-gone-rogue-by-approving-covid-19-boosters-without-clinical-trials-dr-robert-malone-5490314?

https://palexander.substack.com/p/pfizers-fraudulent-covid-mrna-technology

Think this through: if a drug is not safe in 2021, it should not be safe in 2023. But the TGA shut down Ivermectin, not for scientific purposes, but so that people would not be discouraged from getting vaccinated. If the TGA had admitted that Ivermectin was a viable alternative, then it had no basis for using the Covid vaccines that were under FDA Emergency Use Authorisation.

My GP prescribed Ivermectin to me in early September 2021.

Then, on 10 September 2021 TGA made it illegal for doctors to prescribe Ivermectin for Covid.

https://www.tga.gov.au/news/media-releases/new-restrictions-prescribing-ivermectin-covid-19

In their written reasons, the main reason was so that people would not be deterred from getting vaccinated.

Now, from 3 May 2023 it's back to what it was before, where GP's can prescribe Ivermectin if they see fit.

https://www.tga.gov.au/news/media-releases/removal-prescribing-restrictions-ivermectin

This war of mud-slinging carries on where grass roots people like tsf reject viewing any of the information I send, because tsf slams Dr John Campbell for being an idiot.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/09/mayo-clinic-scrubs-page-admitting-hydroxychloroquine-can-be/

I mean you have to laugh. Scrolling down through the waffle above I see a link to a website epochtimes.com. Out of morbid curiosity, and against my better judgment, I looked up to see if Epoch Times was a crank site or not.

Like a fool I clicked on this article talking about the dangers of aluminium in a vaccine. 
https://www.theepochtimes.com/health/undeniable-toxic-ingredients-in-hpv-vaccines-5345343?ea_src=frontpage&ea_med=premium-report-2

Titled in big scary letters.   Undeniable Toxic Ingredients in HPV Vaccines

Fine, whatever, let's have a read.

Rhubarb, rhubarb, rhubarb, blather, blather blather and I get to this bit. 

However, when aluminum is injected into our muscles in the formulation of a vaccine, it is nearly 100 percent absorbed. It then travels and crosses the blood-brain barrier and accumulates in our brain and other organs.Aluminum is a well-known cell killer. It creates harmful molecules called reactive oxygen species, misleads the immune system to become overreactive to our body components, damages the energy supply chain, and is toxic to our DNA.Aluminum is especially harmful to our brain and nerves, as it plays multiple roles in the clumping of harmful substances (β-amyloid, tau protein) in the brain, leads to the death of brain-protective cells called astrocytes, and disrupts the "protective wall" around the brain resulting in more vulnerability to harmful substances.
 
Hovering over the hyperlink I see it links to sciencedirect.com. A reputable science site. Now the Epoch Times is linking these claims that aluminium 'ACCUMULATES IN OUR BRAIN' to the vaccines and the toxicity thereof.

So I click on it thinking, well maybe there's something in this, let's have a look. What do I see?

This;

Aluminum and vaccines: Current state of knowledge

Highlights

Most of the aluminum contained in the body (95%) has food for origin.
The amount of aluminum contained in a vaccine is insufficient to increase the aluminum level in the organism.
Direct toxicity and then indirect toxicity have been suggested as a potential explanation of human macrophagic myofasciitis.
This article demonstrates that to date no link can be established between the presence of aluminum in vaccines and human macrophagic myofasciitis.


Directly contradicting their claims. I can only assume the writers are hoping that the DYOR mob don't actually DYOR and read the articles they're referencing. The devil is in the details after all.

This was just one article I skim read. You could probably spend all day clicking the other links, and there's dozens, that are misrepresented or false.

I really feel sorry for anyone that works in these fields and has to try and combat this sort of thing. Imagine fronting a senate committee with members on it like Pauline Hanson, Malcolm Roberts or some other conspiracy nutjob trying to explain to them that aluminium in vaccines that is present is in amounts so miniscule it barely moves the dial in the body, if at all.

It must be a nightmare. 

Well done George Bush. Credit where credit is due.

And when Obama left office they warned that one of the biggest threats the world could face was a novel coronavirus.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/obama-team-left-pandemic-playbook-for-trump-administration-officials-confirm
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-pandemic-preparedness-2014/
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/04/10/barack-obama-2014-pandemic-comments-sot-ctn-vpx.cnn

And what did Trump do? 

Gutted the CDC.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/10/how-the-trump-admin-devastated-the-cdc-and-continues-to-cripple-it/
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02800-9

It's not surprising that George Bush didn't see Trump as fit to be president.  https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-04-20/george-w-bush-condemns-the-trump-era-republican-party

Here's another scientific peer-reviewed journal article that the majority will just kick down the road and ignore.

Title of peer-reviewed article: "Cardiac side effects of RNA-based SARS-CoV-2 vaccines: Hidden cardiotoxic effects of mRNA-1273 and BNT162b2 on ventricular myocyte function and structure"

This "recent publication by Schreckenberg et al who demonstrated direct cardiotoxicity of both Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines on heart muscle cells within 48 hours."
https://petermcculloughmd.substack.com/p/halt-all-future-mrna-vaccine-development
https://bpspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bph.16262

As a visual example of how the majority will just shut their ears, and not bother ... a few days ago, British MP Andrew Bridgen presented data on the appalling excess deaths that is in the government data of developed countries that keep such data - U.S., Europe, Australia, Canada etc.

These video links contain the broadcast of MP Andrew Bridgen presenting to Parliament, and virtually no other MPs bothered showing up. This is reflective of the way that society is responding.

https://youtu.be/97qRUqYLNu0?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWP6mGiDveI

(And for those like Muz who slam any video by Dr John Campbell ... please, it's not him speaking. It is a full Parliamentary speech in the English House of Commons. Watch that part).

In 2021, the doctors sounded warnings that the MRNA new technology vaccines were showing off-the-charts damage data. Now, in 2023, this correlates with excess-deaths in government statistics. The excess deaths did not commence when Covid started; the excess deaths started in sync with the vaccine rollouts -- but no one listens.

Consider this: if the Parliamentarians now, in 2023, conclude "Ooops, we made a mistake, the things we forced you to get jabbed, otherwise you lose your jobs, they're causing heart problems with excess deaths over historical norms" .... you think any politician will want to investigate that? Would a politician investigate something that could lead to them having liability? Surely that correlates with the House of Commons chamber being virtually empty with no one wanting to see the data.

But isn't that the same for all of the 95% of society? Who would want to investigate the data, when it would lead to the conclusion about our precious next generation of children and the repercussions.

Five year old boys do not just drop dead from heart attacks ... this does not happen all the time.

Yonatan, Israeli 5 year old who featured in an Israeli national campaign to promote Covid vaccines for children, has tragically died after suffering a sudden heart attack.

https://miriambelknap.substack.com/p/in-israel-8-year-old-yonatan-moshe

https://twitter.com/AvishagBalev/status/1708369022843076951

https://lionessofjudah.substack.com/p/meanwhile-in-israel-8-year-old-vaccine

And not just the Israeli poster-child for vaccines died --- also in Argentina. The Argentinian kid, who was in advertisements for vaccines, he died.

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/death-four-year-old-boy-argentina-due-lung-infection-contrary-to-posts-implying-vaccination-was-cause/

BUT notice how the above so-called fact-checkers say the Argentinian vaccine poster-boy died of pneumonia, not the Covid vaccine. But if you go to Pfizer's confidential document -- link below --- (exposed by Freedom of Information court case), and search for the word "pneumonia" - it appears 38 times. Types of pneumonia are indeed connected to the Covid vaccine, according to Pfizer's own document, link below.

https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf

Now you realise the connection when you hear of U.S. famous Olympic gymnast, Mary Lou Retton, 55 years old, fighting for her life with a rare form of pneumonia.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/19/sport/mary-lou-retton-pneumonia-scary-setback/index.html

Then you link it with the excess deaths in all highly-vaccinated countries - but no excess deaths in low-vaccinated countries.
https://rumble.com/v3kyvq1-more-deaths-in-the-vaccinated.html

Here's an Instagram page of Aussies that suffered vaccine injury:
https://www.instagram.com/jab_injuries_australia/?img_index=1

DIED SUDDENLY: Sudden Cardiac Arrest Deaths Spiked Dramatically in 2021 – U.S. Hospital Data

https://lionessofjudah.substack.com/p/died-suddenly-sudden-cardiac-arrest?


ALARMING New Data: Just 0.1% of Sudden Deaths Are Unvaxxed

https://lionessofjudah.substack.com/p/alarming-new-data-just-01-of-sudden?


And if you wonder why governments -- who forced you, under threat of losing your job, to take these vaccines -- are not investigating the subsequent spike in deaths that coincided, not with Covid, but coincided with the vaccine-rollouts, here's an example:

in Canada: Trudeau PUNISHES Canadian Detective for Investigating Link Between mRNA COVID “Vaccines” and Infant Deaths
https://lionessofjudah.substack.com/p/meanwhile-in-canada-trudeau-punishes?

Did you want to address this misinformation from your link js (lowercase) or just ignore it like you always do?

Muz, you think you've got me by the proverbials by that "gotcha". So I have to be patient and explain it to you.

When articles are written, they often link to broad general articles are background information. For example, please refer to the wikipedia article on the Socceroos. Notice that even the word "Australia" has a link to the general article about Australia. Notice that the name "New Zealand" has a link to the general article on the New Zealand team.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_men%27s_national_soccer_team

Hence, that link you cited is just to a general article showing the current consensus of information.

But, irrespective of the Mainstream, there is always new research showing the dangers. That is what research is about: finding out new things, beyond the current status quo.

For example, here is a link to a medical research paper entitled, "Entry and Deposit of Aluminum in the Brain".
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30315448/

Its Abstract states: "Aluminum, as a known neurotoxicant, contributes to cognitive dysfunction and may contribute to Alzheimer's disease. The important reason is that aluminum can enter and be deposited in the brain. There have been three routes by which aluminum could enter the brain from systemic circulation or the site of absorption. Aluminum fluxes into brain across the blood-brain barrier (BBB), the choroid plexuses and the nasal cavity. Some factors, such as the increasing of the blood-brain barrier permeability, citric acid and parathyroid hormone (PTH), and vitamin D, can promote aluminum to enter the brain. But the redistribution of aluminum out of the brain is slow, so aluminum can be deposited in the brain for a long time."

The assertion that aluminium is linked to Alzheimers is not loony-tunes. It is the subject of much research.

No no. You linked an article that supposedly backed up your position. The article contained a link that didn't back up the assertion.

It's that simple. The article either didn't know the link didn't back their position or knew it was false and just hyperlinked a 1000 articles assuming people wouldn't check. (Like you didn't.) Was literally the only link I clicked on and it proved to be false.

I'd have thought an ardent DYOR'er would DYOR.

The Mainstream always starts by saying something is safe - and then it takes decades for people to establish the idea that it isn't.

For example, it took decades for activist scientists to prove that smoking caused cancer. Here's a medical paper that summarises the 50 years it took to get through the idea that smoking is harmful. Muz, do you agree that your type of personality, if back in 1964 you were told that smoking is harmful, you would have tossed it as garbage. Because the world is filled with such people, that is why it took 50 years to get the truth to become widely accepted.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK294310/

For example, right now, the consensus is that the Covid-19 vaccines are "safe and effective", There is a huge incentive to maintain that, notably billions and future trillions in profits for Big Pharma.

Therefore, it we were to cite general papers about the Covid-19 vaccines, the general consensus is that they are "safe and effective",

Thus, the Epoch times article - citing a general paper on the Mainstream consensus -- will refer to articles that say Aluminium is safe.

Muz, are you able to see the difference between a news article on latest findings of the harms of Aluminium, but which has a link to the general broad topic that says Aluminium is safe?

Well, it didn't for you - you literally said every sportsperson was dropping like flies, which was obviously complete BS. So now the goal [osts have shifted to everyone is going to die in 20 years? lol

All this instead of just stepping back and going 'well, we got this wrong'. 

And save yourself js from sending any more 'evidence' from a low rent porn mag 'dailymail'. FFS - they can't even spell let alone be a source of credible info. The irony of a person from the church using that as a source. I'd look into the history of the owners and the business models they have. Not very Christian. Actually then again, it kind of sums up the Church.

As for the loonies from that weirdo Chinese sect at the Epoch times....FMD

I'm no longer pressing to convince those of you who keep resisting. We are well past that stage. It's now the season of consequences, as Churchill put it. If you're not convinced now, you never will, because your manner of thinking is fixed.

Just yesterday, a friend spoke to their dentist. The dentist said her relative died of a heart attack just after taking the vaccine. The dentist also had another relative who died just after the vaccine. The dentist tried everything to avoid taking the boosters, but felt there was no choice except to take the jab or lose their job.

People who mock the data will just say these are coincidences, that people die all the time. But the mockers laugh at the "excess deaths" data -- from the UK, AU, EU and CA governments own data -- that the excess deaths, above historical norms, are off the charts.

https://rumble.com/v3kyvq1-more-deaths-in-the-vaccinated.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97qRUqYLNu0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWP6mGiDveI
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2023-10-20/debates/69C5A514-9A04-4ED7-B56B-61A3D40E3226/TrendsInExcessDeaths
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/03/shocking-study-out-of-australia-shows-up-to-a-26-fold-increase-in-excess-mortality-in-2021-and-2022-consistent-with-american-insurance-companies-findings/

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/02/ed-dowd-joins-tucker-carlson-to-discuss-his-research-and-insurance-data-on-the-excess-mortality-rates-following-the-forced-government-vaccine-mandates-video/

I am no longer pressing to persuade the mockers. It's too late for that. The lines have been drawn.

The comments in this news.com.au article won't persuade the mockers. They've seen it already, and nothing can shift them.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/amplified-pain-syndrome-elevenyearold-boys-horror-diagnosis-after-covid-vaccine/news-story/80f668b508f96d891e5ea5159e3a0450

You must feel very gratified by this johnsmith... At least you didnt have to build an ark this time... Gods chosen ones will be the only ones left when the rest of us die off... enjoy your time on earth until the rapture :)

Gratification does not even enter in my mind.

I'll explain my motive of the various posts I've made over these last few years regarding vaccines. I have long held the view that each person brings the same manner of thinking to every area of their life.

e.g. if a person is essentially a crowd-follower in vaccine issues, they'll be a crowd-follower in politics and spiritual matters, and even their work and professional life.

e.g. you saw in this thread how Muz, the instant he saw the words "dangers of MRNA" - he instantly said he is out of there. He said he didn't bother reading any more. That is also how Muz reacted in the "6,000 years thread" - the instant he sees something against his worldview, he is out of there. I'm guessing that would be how Muz debates with his family and work colleagues on contentious issues - immediately when he sees something he regards as ridiculous, he's out of there.

I have learned so much from dialoguing with people on social media about vaccines, politics and religion. I've observed the following: People are not primarily driven to make decisions based on facts and information. Instead, the biggest determining factor is whom they trust. People will blindly follow those they trust.

e.g. people trust their G.P. and the Australian government doctors -- more than they trust the scientific data and research papers given to them on a football website, even if those research papers are from the highest medical institutes and experts in the world.

For me, the biggest question in this life will be whether we will repent of our personal evil, and search for the one true God. Unfortunately, in this question, the same pattern of thinking holds true. People are not driven by facts and arguments - but rather, they follow whom they trust. And whom they trust are usually the thought-leaders of the crowd or their culture. Hence, it is an accurate description to say most people are crowd-followers, because therein is their safety.

It is a scary thing to step out and evaluate the data, and find oneself in the mere 3% to 5% (depending which State) that didn't take the vax. But in view of the scientific data that was there from the beginning  - but now is pouring out like a firehose ... no un-vaxed people regret not taking the vax.

This ultimately, for me, is a study in human nature. All of us act according to human nature; but most people assert that they are independent thinkers. It's like teens saying they're independent thinkers, but then they all express the same viewpoints of their influencers, wear the same clothing, do the same thing on weekends etc.

My ultimate hope is that, once people can unshackle their thinking  - to be a truth seeker that is primarily driven by facts and evidence -- then they would consider the message of Jesus Christ.

So, in summary, being gratified did not even enter my mind .... but I do not blame you for being skeptical since you have no way of knowing who I am, other than what I have written on these forum.