Genius

So the Victorian government is pushing to keep face mask rules in place for several months. Long after the numbers are have dropped further and long after people have returned to some sense of normality

If people can't smile at each other as they walk past then you can break their very spirit and keep them emotionally isolated as they robotically go about their mundane lives. Human interaction and social contact are two different things

I don't think they have a clue what they are fighting against to be honest. The only thing people in Victoria can hope for right now is that the powers arent extended because they sure as hell don't know what a functioning society is supposed to look like

Seems to be fine in Asian countries.

Are you telling me in Asian countries that people have to wear a face mask at all times when they are leaving the house, or at home with people not part of their household, for an extended period of time long after the threat to society, or they risk legal enforcement and a $200 fine at a time they have been financially crippled?

Asian countries were masks often because of pollution, not because of the government

Faces define us as a species. If you stare at anything long enough you'll see a face. The reason why artificial intelligence will never come close to real life is because they can't emulate the complex facial expressions that convey emotion and make contact meaningful

If you wanted to break down a group of people the first thing you'll do is take away their identity and distance them emotionally. We are a mere 4 weeks into this madness and there have already been mental health packages in the millions aimed at trying to bail people out. Pissing out the spot fires of a situation they created

If this was to go on for a 6 month period then the very fabric that defines us as a species will be torn away and people will go mad

If you can smile at somebody when you walk past them or thank the checkout assistant with a smile then its these little things that will bring us together as a group of people who are forced into troubled and unprecedented times. Its the Aussie spirit and its what has gotten many of us through this

There has to be a point where some kind of common sense or reason comes into controlling a virus that we can very easily avoid through social distancing and hygeine. Not just swinging an axe through everything that defines us as we try to eliminate the host of this virus and any potential host

Any government that does not understand the importance of mental health, well being and social fabric should not be in charge of a group of people whose lives literally depend on their actions

If the Victorian government can't get us out of this mess in 4 weeks then that by their own definition is an admission of failure. If having the numbers reduce gradually over a 6 month period was unacceptable and the catalyst for the latest lockdown, then having people muzzled like dogs several months from now is the furthest thing from unacceptable

Just to throw a bit of common sense is this debate here is word from Queensland

Dr Young said that masks should be worn in confined areas.                   "Over the last few days, I have been saying to people that this is the time to get out those flat surgical masks that you can now buy anywhere.                 "Those masks, or, if you have made masks, with three layers of thickness, they are effective as well.                 "It is really time to start using them. If you can't socially distance when you go to the shopping centre, use a mask. Try to always socially distance. That is far, far more effective. But if you can't do it, use a mask.                     "If you are in a taxi or a rideshare or on public transport, that is a time to wear a mask, because you can imagine we have all got our windows closed, it is a bit cold at the moment for Queensland, so we are sitting in a confined space, in a taxi or a rideshare or our own car, and if there is anyone who is not part of the household, who is in that car, really, think about using a mask to protect yourself and protect others.                   "Because you can't socially distance in a car. And public transport, if you can't socially distance there."

Do you see the difference????

Thanks! 

That's exactly right!

Break the human spirit, detach the people from one another, and weaken their resolve. Then you can do anything to them. 

Hit it on the head again. 

So they still wear masks often, meaning all this stuff about smiles being essential are not valid.

I also agree that social distancing is the most important way to safeguard. No one is doubting that.

Are you serious? Do you really think putting a mask on for 20 minutes in a polluted area and then taking it off when you reach the office or household is the same as permanent emotional withdrawal?

Also I hope I'm stating the obvious here but Victoria is a state, not a country

Every law by force in this country is consistent across the country. Internationals trying to get in, hotel quarantine, mandatory isolation regulations and social distancing practices for businesses

Imagine if NSW announced tomorrow they were accepting international flights and removing hotel quarantine? Other states would permanently shut their borders because they would be too dangerous of a place to visit. The reason why we won't see a trans tasman bubble anytime soon

Yet here we have a situation where Victorians can freely walk into other states, mingle with people, and walk out again with no fear of repercussions and no threat of an outbreak coming to us from the north and east - despite the fact that these radically dangerous places do not mandate their citizens to be muzzled in every public place

The reason as to why is simple. Because not wearing face masks make no difference in the scheme of things. If it did then it would have been a nationwide law like hotel quarantine - something that we see in most countries that have mandatory mask laws when necessary

People often defend big mistakes because they have invested a lot of time making them

You can brush away the crippling psychological effects and turn a blind eye to the million dollar mental health rescue packages all you want. But the one thing you can't do is explain why 3 months from now I have to wear a face mask by law but you dont have to

And what about voluntary euthanasia? Do you wish to suppress the freedom of individuals to make that decision for themselves as well?

No. People in Asian countries wear facemarks voluntarily as they are not as selfish as we are. 

 
I think you're creating all these straw men by exaggerating the circumstances and then knocking them down. 

If you want to die on a hill arguing that wearing a face mask while outdoors, fine. That's your decision, but those are the directives in your State. Personally, if the situation was the same in NSW or if I was in Victoria, I wouldn't mind complying. Yes, it's a hassle, it's inconvenient, uncomfortable etc, no one is disputing that. But I don't think its oppressive and if you do think that it is, then I think you're pretty lucky to have that as the greatest amount of hardship placed upon you by the State.

It's a slippery slope.

So no, I do not believe in Euthanasia by lethal injections. I support palliative care and if the patient refuses it or any life supporting interventions, then that's their call. 

There is already a form of Euthenasia even before hand. No need to make it a clinical death factory process. 

ad a preemptive strike, I am dead set against Abortions as I believe that to be murder of the unborn. 

Herald Sun up to it again with a shot of people on the beach in Ocean Grove (which being outside of Melbourne is not in stage 4) using a long lens to make it look like people were closer together. Seriously irresponsible reporting.

https://twitter.com/sarahtakesfotos/status/1299870154105389056

Thats the most hypocritical thing I have read

You're just as bad as those parents who pulled their kids out of school because they come from a well off family who can home school their kids and then demanded that governments close schools state wide

If you want to wear a mask permanently then you can. There is nothing stopping you. But that doesnt mean that your decisions and what you are comfortable with suits everybody else

This virus isnt a game. The rules are regulations are the minimum amount of sacrifices we have to make to get the numbers to a stage that can be controlled by a suppression strategy. If there was no mandatory quarantine it would fail. If there was no forced isolation it would fail. If social distancing wasnt regulated it would fail

But there isnt a sane, rational, free thinking person on this planet who can argue this battle will be won or last by forcing by law everybody to cover their faces in all situations in public

Forcing your agenda onto others because it suits your comfortable well off life is selfish

There are 520,000 people in Victoria who have no legal way to see somebody's face who are being driven to crippling levels of mental illness and their lives are being held at ransom by people who honestly think a piece of home made cloth knitted together that meets no standard would save their life. People who have spent the last 12 months sitting on their mound of toilet paper eating bowl full after bowl full of rice too scared to leave their house

If there isnt significant and substantial evidence to prove that somebody wearing a mask while walking isolated down a road is a decisive turning point in bringing the numbers down then it shouldnt be stapled to the same legislation as mandatory quarantine and imposed with the same level of force. Whatever your opinion is, that is your opinion

I dont think you understand the issue here. People here look at whats happening in the US, read the Karen memes, and think face masks are just a bit of inconvenience for a whinging minority

I have worked in mental health services before and still have roots there. Life in Victoria is not the glorious wonderful land of chocolate that you think it is

There are people who have been through things you couldnt even see in movies let alone imagine what its like. And you had to be them for a single day you'd be packing your bags and heading north faster than you came here

Lol such an incredible hypocrite.

Freedom within the confines of your narrow world view. Pathetic.

I totally agree. 

face masks are not going to very much to stop the spread. the only thing that will work is some common sense such as a bit of social distance and hygienic practices like washing hands, and sanitizing. 

If you don't need to be out, then stay at home.

However,the 6 week lock down in Melbourne, which is about to be extended, has proven to be disastrous for old people, vulnerable people, lonely people, and ill people. there are cancer patients dying alone, unable to see their grand children. We have lost our humanity.

And we have caused greater damage than the virus itself. Mental health and suicide has claimed more lives than COVID. So this is what the people are rebelling against. Their loss of freedoms, Government interference. It's not the people's fault. Those to blame are the Government. People are generally happy to sacrifice a great deal if they believe they are making a difference. but if the authorities undermine themselves because they are dishonest, or are playing political expedient games, then they lose all control.

No, absolute freedom- free speech, and democracy. 

Religious freedom as well. 

You can do whatever you want, but no I don't believe in gay marriage because that is a religious sacrament.

Even worse though is abortion. That is just clearly wrong. 

So religious freedom means forcing others to not experience freedom. 

Got it.

Thanks Doctor!!

I think we need to stop talking about timetables to open up.  The timetable will be set by the virus.

People are concerned about the mental anguish being endured but let me share a story. My uncle was in a Japanese POW camp. His observation about people and how they survived was it was very much to do with their outlook. If people thought they will be home in 6 months or they will be home before Christmas they were inevitably disappointed and then depressed. They would set another target date and then that date would fly by as well. People that accepted that they were in a POW camp, likely for the duration of the war, with little they could do about it, survived better.

Rather than setting timetables we need to be setting goals. We open up when we get to a certain goal - not before. Not before because it is cheaper - because it won't be because you will only have to shut down again. Not because some shock jock says you should - because he is an idiot. Not because an opportunist PM says so - because he is just trying to score political points. 

All these people pushing to re-open and complaining about the mental anguish being suffered are just feeding that mental anguish. I'm not trying to diminish what is being experienced, I am just saying that the 'non-quiet Australians' complaining are probably causing more anguish to those suffering by raising expectations about an early lift of restrictions.    

Not trying to derail the thread, but this was rather interesting: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/satanic-temple-abortion-rights-supreme-court-1048833/

No one is saying life in Victoria is glorious etc. The whole situation sucks and we've all been dealt with a shit sandwich. I think we can all agree that the faster we get out of this the better. If people are having trouble with the lockdowns, then get as much help and support as you can find. But if wearing a mask can speed this whole thing up, then go for it. If it does nothing, then at least it shows everyone that they're not alone and everyone is doing what they can to try and overcome the shit sandwich.  

Given the omnipotence of the supreme being coupled with the fact that up to 1 in 3 natural conceptions end in a miscarriage that would God is the world's most preeminent abortionist.

Thumbs up God..

Natural abortion fine.  Artificial abortion bad.

No! Religious freedom is not forcing religions like Orthodoxy providing religious sacraments which compromise its beliefs and sacraments. 

Here is another one from the good Doc!

it looks like Trump really has all of you on the ropes. Remember when you were lambasting him for his endorsement of HCF?

Well, it turn out he was right once again! 

Indeed! Abortions are the work of the devil. Why is that? Well, it’s literally the murder of an innocent life within a woman’s womb. 

No actually. That is part of life.