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mouflonrouge
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And I may also add, that God doesn’t abandon Gay people either so any injustice against them is the same as anyone else without exception as their sin is no different to anyone’s sin or weakness.
Whether you sin in that way or commit adultery, it’s the same.
You say Christianity is prejudiced. But Christianity is the least prejudiced of all.
It’s you guys who have prejudice in you.
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Burztur
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+x+xGiven the omnipotence of the supreme being coupled with the fact that up to 1 in 3 natural conceptions end in a miscarriage that would God is the world's most preeminent abortionist. Thumbs up God.. Natural abortion fine. Artificial abortion bad. No actually. That is part of life.
It’s the same thing about war. People live, and they die. Sometimes children die.
In the Ancient Church we had thousands of martyrs who were happy to lay down their lives in colloseums being eaten by lions, being burnt by fire, beheaded, and experiencing the most gruesome of tortures. Did God abandon them? Never did he abandon them.
If only I was as brave as these early Christians. These Martyrs are edified as Saints. Like Saint Sophia and her 2 daughters. She had to watch her daughters be tortured then killed. She then died from her grief.
God never abandons anyone. Whatever injustice you encounter in this world will be more than made up for in the next especially if your suffering was in His name.
That’s good. Maybe we should let people live their own lives however they see fit.
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bluebird
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]So the Victorian government is pushing to keep face mask rules in place for several months. Long after the numbers are have dropped further and long after people have returned to some sense of normality If people can't smile at each other as they walk past then you can break their very spirit and keep them emotionally isolated as they robotically go about their mundane lives. Human interaction and social contact are two different things I don't think they have a clue what they are fighting against to be honest. The only thing people in Victoria can hope for right now is that the powers arent extended because they sure as hell don't know what a functioning society is supposed to look like Seems to be fine in Asian countries. Are you telling me in Asian countries that people have to wear a face mask at all times when they are leaving the house, or at home with people not part of their household, for an extended period of time long after the threat to society, or they risk legal enforcement and a $200 fine at a time they have been financially crippled?
Asian countries were masks often because of pollution, not because of the governmentFaces define us as a species. If you stare at anything long enough you'll see a face. The reason why artificial intelligence will never come close to real life is because they can't emulate the complex facial expressions that convey emotion and make contact meaningful If you wanted to break down a group of people the first thing you'll do is take away their identity and distance them emotionally. We are a mere 4 weeks into this madness and there have already been mental health packages in the millions aimed at trying to bail people out. Pissing out the spot fires of a situation they created If this was to go on for a 6 month period then the very fabric that defines us as a species will be torn away and people will go mad If you can smile at somebody when you walk past them or thank the checkout assistant with a smile then its these little things that will bring us together as a group of people who are forced into troubled and unprecedented times. Its the Aussie spirit and its what has gotten many of us through this There has to be a point where some kind of common sense or reason comes into controlling a virus that we can very easily avoid through social distancing and hygeine. Not just swinging an axe through everything that defines us as we try to eliminate the host of this virus and any potential host Any government that does not understand the importance of mental health, well being and social fabric should not be in charge of a group of people whose lives literally depend on their actions If the Victorian government can't get us out of this mess in 4 weeks then that by their own definition is an admission of failure. If having the numbers reduce gradually over a 6 month period was unacceptable and the catalyst for the latest lockdown, then having people muzzled like dogs several months from now is the furthest thing from unacceptable So they still wear masks often, meaning all this stuff about smiles being essential are not valid. I also agree that social distancing is the most important way to safeguard. No one is doubting that. I think you're creating all these straw men by exaggerating the circumstances and then knocking them down. If you want to die on a hill arguing that wearing a face mask while outdoors, fine. That's your decision, but those are the directives in your State. Personally, if the situation was the same in NSW or if I was in Victoria, I wouldn't mind complying. Yes, it's a hassle, it's inconvenient, uncomfortable etc, no one is disputing that. But I don't think its oppressive and if you do think that it is, then I think you're pretty lucky to have that as the greatest amount of hardship placed upon you by the State. I dont think you understand the issue here. People here look at whats happening in the US, read the Karen memes, and think face masks are just a bit of inconvenience for a whinging minority I have worked in mental health services before and still have roots there. Life in Victoria is not the glorious wonderful land of chocolate that you think it is There are people who have been through things you couldnt even see in movies let alone imagine what its like. And you had to be them for a single day you'd be packing your bags and heading north faster than you came here No one is saying life in Victoria is glorious etc. The whole situation sucks and we've all been dealt with a shit sandwich. I think we can all agree that the faster we get out of this the better. If people are having trouble with the lockdowns, then get as much help and support as you can find. But if wearing a mask can speed this whole thing up, then go for it. If it does nothing, then at least it shows everyone that they're not alone and everyone is doing what they can to try and overcome the shit sandwich. If you think a 6 month framework where mandatory face masks play a role is speed then we have different opinions on the definition of speed. The whole catalyst for this lockdown is because when staring down the barrel of numbers coming down slowly over a 6 month period, the Victorian government said that 6 months was too long. A speedy resolution means these restrictions that are wearing us down are over the nanosecond it is viable. Not rolled out as some part of 6 month plan If face masks were so important in the control of Covid then simple question: Why doesnt the Victorian government hold the AFL grand final in Victoria with 100,000 at the MCG on the condition that everybody wears a mask? What we saw last night was 6,000 people spread across a stadium in the midst of a global pandemic watching a sporting event so they can celebrate their team and enjoy these little moments in life. Now the reason why such a radical event which wont happen in some places in the world was able to unfold was because the NSW government backs its claims that social distancing, group numbers and good hygiene are undeniably and indisputably effective measures for stopping the spread of Covid. Not just the football match but also schools, restaurants, retail shops etc... So if Victoria are so sure face masks are effective then why can't Victorians, who are obligated by law to wear masks, go to school, go to work, go to retail stores, attend sporting events etc...? If the advice by medical practitioners is if nothing else a face mask will stop you from getting covid, then why is it they wont let their own staff attend to and treat people with covid with nothing else but a mask And the answer is simple. Because face masks are non consequential in the scheme of things. Face mask or not, it is deemed by the government to be too dangerous for people to so much as walk into a retail store and buy a pair of shoes. Despite the critical importance of education and the significant impact it is having state wide, face mask or no, it is deemed too dangerous for kids to go back to school How does a government roll out a legal framework for a tool in the battle against this virus that it doesnt even back on the smallest scale of what we can and can't do in Victoria. Being forced to wear masks hasn't opened us up to a single liberty This isnt about lockdown. This isnt about wanting to come out too early. This isnt about wanting to travel around the country as if nothing is happening or fighting against reasonable and rational instructions. This is about wanting the exact same rights and freedoms as the states that we can legally walk into long before we can legally stop wearing masks Since the end of March people have been looking for that magical covid cure. Despite everything that has been said you still get people today buying miracle cures and magical pills in a naive attempt to vacinate themselves from this madness. Victorians have found that in face masks. If you have a face mask you cant get the virus. They have a peice of tangible cloth in their hand that is a magical cure for their nightmare but it only works if everybody else is wearing one and then the whole problem will disappear. The level of naivety around masks is frightening. let alone those people who are actually sick who think they can move freely in the community because they have covered their face The battle against this virus has never been about forcing our beliefs or opinions on others. If you anybody else feels comfortable wearing a mask then by all means do that. Your right to wear a mask is just as important as mine not to wear one. But for something to be mandated by law and enforced with aggression then at the very least it needs to be scientifically proven and backed with substantial data to prove that our battle against this virus will be made easier with that mechanism in place. And given nobody in the government in any field backs the use of masks as a safe "return to normal" in the same way NSW and other states have backed social distancing and hygiene, then at best it is a tool for front line staff as part of a broader package of safety regulations, and a placebo for stupid people
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+xGiven the omnipotence of the supreme being coupled with the fact that up to 1 in 3 natural conceptions end in a miscarriage that would God is the world's most preeminent abortionist. Thumbs up God.. Natural abortion fine. Artificial abortion bad. No actually. That is part of life.
It’s the same thing about war. People live, and they die. Sometimes children die.
In the Ancient Church we had thousands of martyrs who were happy to lay down their lives in colloseums being eaten by lions, being burnt by fire, beheaded, and experiencing the most gruesome of tortures. Did God abandon them? Never did he abandon them.
If only I was as brave as these early Christians. These Martyrs are edified as Saints. Like Saint Sophia and her 2 daughters. She had to watch her daughters be tortured then killed. She then died from her grief.
God never abandons anyone. Whatever injustice you encounter in this world will be more than made up for in the next especially if your suffering was in His name.
That’s good. Maybe we should let people live their own lives however they see fit. One of the fundamental tenets is that people do have the freedom to do what they want as God gave everyone free will.
But that free will means you can do anything. You can murder, steal, harm others, commit Adultery, lie, be deceitful, jealous, angry, disrespectful, disobedient, commit war crimes, kill in His name, etc etc but that doesn’t make it right or pleasing to Him and everyone will be judged one day.
It’s impossible for any human to be sinless. But as long as we recognize that, his Grace is very forgiving and tolerant. His intention is to save all humanity from any inflictions,
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paulbagzFC
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I see another thread has gone to shit. GG. -PB
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]So the Victorian government is pushing to keep face mask rules in place for several months. Long after the numbers are have dropped further and long after people have returned to some sense of normality If people can't smile at each other as they walk past then you can break their very spirit and keep them emotionally isolated as they robotically go about their mundane lives. Human interaction and social contact are two different things I don't think they have a clue what they are fighting against to be honest. The only thing people in Victoria can hope for right now is that the powers arent extended because they sure as hell don't know what a functioning society is supposed to look like Seems to be fine in Asian countries. Are you telling me in Asian countries that people have to wear a face mask at all times when they are leaving the house, or at home with people not part of their household, for an extended period of time long after the threat to society, or they risk legal enforcement and a $200 fine at a time they have been financially crippled?
Asian countries were masks often because of pollution, not because of the governmentFaces define us as a species. If you stare at anything long enough you'll see a face. The reason why artificial intelligence will never come close to real life is because they can't emulate the complex facial expressions that convey emotion and make contact meaningful If you wanted to break down a group of people the first thing you'll do is take away their identity and distance them emotionally. We are a mere 4 weeks into this madness and there have already been mental health packages in the millions aimed at trying to bail people out. Pissing out the spot fires of a situation they created If this was to go on for a 6 month period then the very fabric that defines us as a species will be torn away and people will go mad If you can smile at somebody when you walk past them or thank the checkout assistant with a smile then its these little things that will bring us together as a group of people who are forced into troubled and unprecedented times. Its the Aussie spirit and its what has gotten many of us through this There has to be a point where some kind of common sense or reason comes into controlling a virus that we can very easily avoid through social distancing and hygeine. Not just swinging an axe through everything that defines us as we try to eliminate the host of this virus and any potential host Any government that does not understand the importance of mental health, well being and social fabric should not be in charge of a group of people whose lives literally depend on their actions If the Victorian government can't get us out of this mess in 4 weeks then that by their own definition is an admission of failure. If having the numbers reduce gradually over a 6 month period was unacceptable and the catalyst for the latest lockdown, then having people muzzled like dogs several months from now is the furthest thing from unacceptable So they still wear masks often, meaning all this stuff about smiles being essential are not valid. I also agree that social distancing is the most important way to safeguard. No one is doubting that. I think you're creating all these straw men by exaggerating the circumstances and then knocking them down. If you want to die on a hill arguing that wearing a face mask while outdoors, fine. That's your decision, but those are the directives in your State. Personally, if the situation was the same in NSW or if I was in Victoria, I wouldn't mind complying. Yes, it's a hassle, it's inconvenient, uncomfortable etc, no one is disputing that. But I don't think its oppressive and if you do think that it is, then I think you're pretty lucky to have that as the greatest amount of hardship placed upon you by the State. I dont think you understand the issue here. People here look at whats happening in the US, read the Karen memes, and think face masks are just a bit of inconvenience for a whinging minority I have worked in mental health services before and still have roots there. Life in Victoria is not the glorious wonderful land of chocolate that you think it is There are people who have been through things you couldnt even see in movies let alone imagine what its like. And you had to be them for a single day you'd be packing your bags and heading north faster than you came here No one is saying life in Victoria is glorious etc. The whole situation sucks and we've all been dealt with a shit sandwich. I think we can all agree that the faster we get out of this the better. If people are having trouble with the lockdowns, then get as much help and support as you can find. But if wearing a mask can speed this whole thing up, then go for it. If it does nothing, then at least it shows everyone that they're not alone and everyone is doing what they can to try and overcome the shit sandwich. If you think a 6 month framework where mandatory face masks play a role is speed then we have different opinions on the definition of speed. The whole catalyst for this lockdown is because when staring down the barrel of numbers coming down slowly over a 6 month period, the Victorian government said that 6 months was too long. A speedy resolution means these restrictions that are wearing us down are over the nanosecond it is viable. Not rolled out as some part of 6 month plan If face masks were so important in the control of Covid then simple question: Why doesnt the Victorian government hold the AFL grand final in Victoria with 100,000 at the MCG on the condition that everybody wears a mask? What we saw last night was 6,000 people spread across a stadium in the midst of a global pandemic watching a sporting event so they can celebrate their team and enjoy these little moments in life. Now the reason why such a radical event which wont happen in some places in the world was able to unfold was because the NSW government backs its claims that social distancing, group numbers and good hygiene are undeniably and indisputably effective measures for stopping the spread of Covid. Not just the football match but also schools, restaurants, retail shops etc... So if Victoria are so sure face masks are effective then why can't Victorians, who are obligated by law to wear masks, go to school, go to work, go to retail stores, attend sporting events etc...? If the advice by medical practitioners is if nothing else a face mask will stop you from getting covid, then why is it they wont let their own staff attend to and treat people with covid with nothing else but a mask And the answer is simple. Because face masks are non consequential in the scheme of things. Face mask or not, it is deemed by the government to be too dangerous for people to so much as walk into a retail store and buy a pair of shoes. Despite the critical importance of education and the significant impact it is having state wide, face mask or no, it is deemed too dangerous for kids to go back to school How does a government roll out a legal framework for a tool in the battle against this virus that it doesnt even back on the smallest scale of what we can and can't do in Victoria. Being forced to wear masks hasn't opened us up to a single liberty This isnt about lockdown. This isnt about wanting to come out too early. This isnt about wanting to travel around the country as if nothing is happening or fighting against reasonable and rational instructions. This is about wanting the exact same rights and freedoms as the states that we can legally walk into long before we can legally stop wearing masks Since the end of March people have been looking for that magical covid cure. Despite everything that has been said you still get people today buying miracle cures and magical pills in a naive attempt to vacinate themselves from this madness. Victorians have found that in face masks. If you have a face mask you cant get the virus. They have a peice of tangible cloth in their hand that is a magical cure for their nightmare but it only works if everybody else is wearing one and then the whole problem will disappear. The level of naivety around masks is frightening. let alone those people who are actually sick who think they can move freely in the community because they have covered their face The battle against this virus has never been about forcing our beliefs or opinions on others. If you anybody else feels comfortable wearing a mask then by all means do that. Your right to wear a mask is just as important as mine not to wear one. But for something to be mandated by law and enforced with aggression then at the very least it needs to be scientifically proven and backed with substantial data to prove that our battle against this virus will be made easier with that mechanism in place. And given nobody in the government in any field backs the use of masks as a safe "return to normal" in the same way NSW and other states have backed social distancing and hygiene, then at best it is a tool for front line staff as part of a broader package of safety regulations, and a placebo for stupid people Aside from the fact masks are not as effective as some think, they are also a trap. People will become complacent and get COVID because they are wearing a mask.
In addition, everyone is breathing a higher concentration of Carbon Dioxide. Health professionals are trained on how to use them, the general public are not.
A 6 month extension is a big grab for power. The extensions should only be for a month at a time.
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Muz
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So much crap posted here about facemasks it's not funny. It's not to stop you from getting Covid. It's to stop (or minimise) you spreading it. (4th bullet point from top of doc under.) https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2020/07/coronavirus-covid-19-are-cloth-face-masks-likely-to-provide-protection-against-covid-19_0.pdfAs for carbon dioxide poisoning there's ample evidence, including a dude who ran a marathon in one, to show that's all bullshit. Friggin read a book. https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a1WrG2Y_460s.jpg
Member since 2008.
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mouflonrouge
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So then, it’s ok for COVID carriers to be out and about as long as they are wearing a mask.
Mmmm...no wonder Victoria is now a basket case!
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bluebird
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+xSo much crap posted here about facemasks it's not funny.
It's not to stop you from getting Covid. It's to stop (or minimise) you spreading it. (4th bullet point from top of doc under.) Thats the point The remedy for people with Covid is stay at home orders, not a face mask. Imposing face mask restrictions on people who dont have the virus on the off chance they might have it is the same as imposing mandatory isolation on those who dont have the virus (or high risk) on the off chance they have it - by which case we all should be permanently in stay at home orders The whole point of a state wide lockdown is to assume everybody does have it when the numbers are unmanageable. But once the situation is under control the lockdown and extreme measures are unraveled in the reverse order they were implemented Having mandatory masks with stage 2 restrictions is like having mandatory quarantine as a first line of defence and herbal tea as a second line. Or going to a construction site wearing literally nothing but a helmet and steel capped boots When it is deemed safe to let people back into the public then there is no need for mandatory face masks. If there are only 20-30 people state wide catching the virus then having 6.5 million people wearing masks as a precaution is overkill and certainly not one that requires state of emergency powers to enforce
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scubaroo
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+xSo then, it’s ok for COVID carriers to be out and about as long as they are wearing a mask.
Mmmm...no wonder Victoria is now a basket case! Its clearly to cover people who do not know they have covid to spread. Pretty simple really.
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bluebird
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+x+xSo then, it’s ok for COVID carriers to be out and about as long as they are wearing a mask.
Mmmm...no wonder Victoria is now a basket case! Its clearly to cover people who do not know they have covid to spread. Pretty simple really. Explain to me the science as to why it only works in Victoria but not NSW? Explain to me why it is important for the next 5-6 months, but not important there after when we are in the exact same situation now as we will be until we get a vaccine? The simple thing about face masks that people seem to be forgetting is if you want to wear one, then do so. It really is that simple You dont have to wait until they are mandated by law. The people here from other states who havent already implemented them in their every day lives obviously dont see the value in them but they want us to? The default status is no face masks. That means the onus of debate is for those who want face masks to prove they are necessary to warrant state of emergency powers to enforce for an extended period of time. So far all I have read is "suck it up princess we have bigger fish to fry". For you the simplest thing to do might be to throw on a bit of cloth every where you go but some rape victims with PTSD seeing a world up masked men while being permanently concealed behind a cloth might be traumatic Imagine if we voted on whether people liked AFL or the A League more and then decided to scrap the A League because it is unpopular If there is a single person on the planet who does not want to be forced into wearing a mask, no matter how small, petty or nonsensical that reason may be, they should not be forced to unless there was substantial and significant data to prove that it was decisive in bringing this virus under control Face masks are nothing more than a political tool for people to force their beliefs onto each other. Sad really because we were doing so well during the first lockdown
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mouflonrouge
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+x+xSo then, it’s ok for COVID carriers to be out and about as long as they are wearing a mask.
Mmmm...no wonder Victoria is now a basket case! Its clearly to cover people who do not know they have covid to spread. Pretty simple really. Right! So let me get this straight.
Mandate and make face coverings for millions of people to cover the possibility of someone having COVID and not knowing it when the same thing can be done just from social distancing?
Why don’t they mandate against people driving in case they might have a crash?
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Burztur
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+x+x+xSo then, it’s ok for COVID carriers to be out and about as long as they are wearing a mask.
Mmmm...no wonder Victoria is now a basket case! Its clearly to cover people who do not know they have covid to spread. Pretty simple really. Explain to me the science as to why it only works in Victoria but not NSW? Explain to me why it is important for the next 5-6 months, but not important there after when we are in the exact same situation now as we will be until we get a vaccine? The simple thing about face masks that people seem to be forgetting is if you want to wear one, then do so. It really is that simple You dont have to wait until they are mandated by law. The people here from other states who havent already implemented them in their every day lives obviously dont see the value in them but they want us to? The default status is no face masks. That means the onus of debate is for those who want face masks to prove they are necessary to warrant state of emergency powers to enforce for an extended period of time. So far all I have read is "suck it up princess we have bigger fish to fry". For you the simplest thing to do might be to throw on a bit of cloth every where you go but some rape victims with PTSD seeing a world up masked men while being permanently concealed behind a cloth might be traumatic Imagine if we voted on whether people liked AFL or the A League more and then decided to scrap the A League because it is unpopular If there is a single person on the planet who does not want to be forced into wearing a mask, no matter how small, petty or nonsensical that reason may be, they should not be forced to unless there was substantial and significant data to prove that it was decisive in bringing this virus under control Face masks are nothing more than a political tool for people to force their beliefs onto each other. Sad really because we were doing so well during the first lockdown NSW recommends face masks when out in confined spaces like shopping, etc - https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/face-masks
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bluebird
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+x+x+x+xSo then, it’s ok for COVID carriers to be out and about as long as they are wearing a mask.
Mmmm...no wonder Victoria is now a basket case! Its clearly to cover people who do not know they have covid to spread. Pretty simple really. Explain to me the science as to why it only works in Victoria but not NSW? Explain to me why it is important for the next 5-6 months, but not important there after when we are in the exact same situation now as we will be until we get a vaccine? The simple thing about face masks that people seem to be forgetting is if you want to wear one, then do so. It really is that simple You dont have to wait until they are mandated by law. The people here from other states who havent already implemented them in their every day lives obviously dont see the value in them but they want us to? The default status is no face masks. That means the onus of debate is for those who want face masks to prove they are necessary to warrant state of emergency powers to enforce for an extended period of time. So far all I have read is "suck it up princess we have bigger fish to fry". For you the simplest thing to do might be to throw on a bit of cloth every where you go but some rape victims with PTSD seeing a world up masked men while being permanently concealed behind a cloth might be traumatic Imagine if we voted on whether people liked AFL or the A League more and then decided to scrap the A League because it is unpopular If there is a single person on the planet who does not want to be forced into wearing a mask, no matter how small, petty or nonsensical that reason may be, they should not be forced to unless there was substantial and significant data to prove that it was decisive in bringing this virus under control Face masks are nothing more than a political tool for people to force their beliefs onto each other. Sad really because we were doing so well during the first lockdown NSW recommends face masks when out in confined spaces like shopping, etc - https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/face-masks Right...
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paulbagzFC
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Gladys is saying everything about wearing a mask except making in mandatory because she knows the backlash she will get lol -PB
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Muz
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+x+xSo then, it’s ok for COVID carriers to be out and about as long as they are wearing a mask.
Mmmm...no wonder Victoria is now a basket case! Its clearly to cover people who do not know they have covid to spread. Pretty simple really. I mean that's clearly why it's implemented. Only the thickest, most trolling clown would not see that. It is utterly pointless to even try and reason with this fool. The manufacturing graph put up the other day was the clearest case of motivated perception you'd care to see on these pages. And yet he still tried to make a silk purse out of a pig's ear by defending his idiocy.
Member since 2008.
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+xSo then, it’s ok for COVID carriers to be out and about as long as they are wearing a mask.
Mmmm...no wonder Victoria is now a basket case! Its clearly to cover people who do not know they have covid to spread. Pretty simple really. Explain to me the science as to why it only works in Victoria but not NSW? Explain to me why it is important for the next 5-6 months, but not important there after when we are in the exact same situation now as we will be until we get a vaccine? The simple thing about face masks that people seem to be forgetting is if you want to wear one, then do so. It really is that simple You dont have to wait until they are mandated by law. The people here from other states who havent already implemented them in their every day lives obviously dont see the value in them but they want us to? The default status is no face masks. That means the onus of debate is for those who want face masks to prove they are necessary to warrant state of emergency powers to enforce for an extended period of time. So far all I have read is "suck it up princess we have bigger fish to fry". For you the simplest thing to do might be to throw on a bit of cloth every where you go but some rape victims with PTSD seeing a world up masked men while being permanently concealed behind a cloth might be traumatic Imagine if we voted on whether people liked AFL or the A League more and then decided to scrap the A League because it is unpopular If there is a single person on the planet who does not want to be forced into wearing a mask, no matter how small, petty or nonsensical that reason may be, they should not be forced to unless there was substantial and significant data to prove that it was decisive in bringing this virus under control Face masks are nothing more than a political tool for people to force their beliefs onto each other. Sad really because we were doing so well during the first lockdown NSW recommends face masks when out in confined spaces like shopping, etc - https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/face-masks I've got a pack of disposable masks in my car. Most places are asking that you wear them. Fail to see what the big deal is actually. Something a about FREEDUMS I guess.
Member since 2008.
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+x+x+xSo then, it’s ok for COVID carriers to be out and about as long as they are wearing a mask.
Mmmm...no wonder Victoria is now a basket case! Its clearly to cover people who do not know they have covid to spread. Pretty simple really. Explain to me the science as to why it only works in Victoria but not NSW? Explain to me why it is important for the next 5-6 months, but not important there after when we are in the exact same situation now as we will be until we get a vaccine? The simple thing about face masks that people seem to be forgetting is if you want to wear one, then do so. It really is that simple You dont have to wait until they are mandated by law. The people here from other states who havent already implemented them in their every day lives obviously dont see the value in them but they want us to? The default status is no face masks. That means the onus of debate is for those who want face masks to prove they are necessary to warrant state of emergency powers to enforce for an extended period of time. So far all I have read is "suck it up princess we have bigger fish to fry". For you the simplest thing to do might be to throw on a bit of cloth every where you go but some rape victims with PTSD seeing a world up masked men while being permanently concealed behind a cloth might be traumatic Imagine if we voted on whether people liked AFL or the A League more and then decided to scrap the A League because it is unpopular If there is a single person on the planet who does not want to be forced into wearing a mask, no matter how small, petty or nonsensical that reason may be, they should not be forced to unless there was substantial and significant data to prove that it was decisive in bringing this virus under control Face masks are nothing more than a political tool for people to force their beliefs onto each other. Sad really because we were doing so well during the first lockdown NSW recommends face masks when out in confined spaces like shopping, etc - https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/face-masks I've got a pack of disposable masks in my car. Most places are asking that you wear them. Fail to see what the big deal is actually. Something a about FREEDUMS I guess. If you want to wear one then wear one.
Everyone is free to wear a mask.
It’s mandating it and extending the emergency by 6 months that is the issue.
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bluebird
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+xGladys is saying everything about wearing a mask except making in mandatory because she knows the backlash she will get lol -PB Thats right. The political and legal hoops a state has to jump through to get it through legislation is not worth the pain
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Muz
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+x+x+xSo then, it’s ok for COVID carriers to be out and about as long as they are wearing a mask.
Mmmm...no wonder Victoria is now a basket case! Its clearly to cover people who do not know they have covid to spread. Pretty simple really. If there is a single person on the planet who does not want to be forced into wearing a mask, no matter how small, petty or nonsensical that reason may be, they should not be forced to unless there was substantial and significant data to prove that it was decisive in bringing this virus under control Care to explain your thoughts on mandatory speed limits, hard hats on construction sites, vaccinations, compulsory schooling, stop signs, seat belts etc. Ever heard of the engineering axiom 'belt and braces'? Do you know what the definition of 'redundancy' is?
Member since 2008.
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bluebird
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+x+x+x+xSo then, it’s ok for COVID carriers to be out and about as long as they are wearing a mask.
Mmmm...no wonder Victoria is now a basket case! Its clearly to cover people who do not know they have covid to spread. Pretty simple really. If there is a single person on the planet who does not want to be forced into wearing a mask, no matter how small, petty or nonsensical that reason may be, they should not be forced to unless there was substantial and significant data to prove that it was decisive in bringing this virus under control Care to explain your thoughts on mandatory speed limits, hard hats on construction sites, vaccinations, compulsory schooling, stop signs, seat belts etc. Ever heard of the engineering axiom 'belt and braces'? Do you know what the definition of 'redundancy' is? Well you should read the whole post instead of the first half. I said unless there is substantial and significant data to prove it is effective Your listing things regulated nationally backed by substantial evidence and comparing it with a Victorian only mandated nice to have which your own link dismissed the importance of
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Burztur
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+x+x+x+x+xSo then, it’s ok for COVID carriers to be out and about as long as they are wearing a mask.
Mmmm...no wonder Victoria is now a basket case! Its clearly to cover people who do not know they have covid to spread. Pretty simple really. Explain to me the science as to why it only works in Victoria but not NSW? Explain to me why it is important for the next 5-6 months, but not important there after when we are in the exact same situation now as we will be until we get a vaccine? The simple thing about face masks that people seem to be forgetting is if you want to wear one, then do so. It really is that simple You dont have to wait until they are mandated by law. The people here from other states who havent already implemented them in their every day lives obviously dont see the value in them but they want us to? The default status is no face masks. That means the onus of debate is for those who want face masks to prove they are necessary to warrant state of emergency powers to enforce for an extended period of time. So far all I have read is "suck it up princess we have bigger fish to fry". For you the simplest thing to do might be to throw on a bit of cloth every where you go but some rape victims with PTSD seeing a world up masked men while being permanently concealed behind a cloth might be traumatic Imagine if we voted on whether people liked AFL or the A League more and then decided to scrap the A League because it is unpopular If there is a single person on the planet who does not want to be forced into wearing a mask, no matter how small, petty or nonsensical that reason may be, they should not be forced to unless there was substantial and significant data to prove that it was decisive in bringing this virus under control Face masks are nothing more than a political tool for people to force their beliefs onto each other. Sad really because we were doing so well during the first lockdown NSW recommends face masks when out in confined spaces like shopping, etc - https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/face-masks I've got a pack of disposable masks in my car. Most places are asking that you wear them. Fail to see what the big deal is actually. Something a about FREEDUMS I guess. Pretty much. But for some, the Government trying to do its job seems to be a problem.
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sydneyfc1987
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]So the Victorian government is pushing to keep face mask rules in place for several months. Long after the numbers are have dropped further and long after people have returned to some sense of normality If people can't smile at each other as they walk past then you can break their very spirit and keep them emotionally isolated as they robotically go about their mundane lives. Human interaction and social contact are two different things I don't think they have a clue what they are fighting against to be honest. The only thing people in Victoria can hope for right now is that the powers arent extended because they sure as hell don't know what a functioning society is supposed to look like Seems to be fine in Asian countries. Are you telling me in Asian countries that people have to wear a face mask at all times when they are leaving the house, or at home with people not part of their household, for an extended period of time long after the threat to society, or they risk legal enforcement and a $200 fine at a time they have been financially crippled?
Asian countries were masks often because of pollution, not because of the governmentFaces define us as a species. If you stare at anything long enough you'll see a face. The reason why artificial intelligence will never come close to real life is because they can't emulate the complex facial expressions that convey emotion and make contact meaningful If you wanted to break down a group of people the first thing you'll do is take away their identity and distance them emotionally. We are a mere 4 weeks into this madness and there have already been mental health packages in the millions aimed at trying to bail people out. Pissing out the spot fires of a situation they created If this was to go on for a 6 month period then the very fabric that defines us as a species will be torn away and people will go mad If you can smile at somebody when you walk past them or thank the checkout assistant with a smile then its these little things that will bring us together as a group of people who are forced into troubled and unprecedented times. Its the Aussie spirit and its what has gotten many of us through this There has to be a point where some kind of common sense or reason comes into controlling a virus that we can very easily avoid through social distancing and hygeine. Not just swinging an axe through everything that defines us as we try to eliminate the host of this virus and any potential host Any government that does not understand the importance of mental health, well being and social fabric should not be in charge of a group of people whose lives literally depend on their actions If the Victorian government can't get us out of this mess in 4 weeks then that by their own definition is an admission of failure. If having the numbers reduce gradually over a 6 month period was unacceptable and the catalyst for the latest lockdown, then having people muzzled like dogs several months from now is the furthest thing from unacceptable So they still wear masks often, meaning all this stuff about smiles being essential are not valid. I also agree that social distancing is the most important way to safeguard. No one is doubting that. I think you're creating all these straw men by exaggerating the circumstances and then knocking them down. If you want to die on a hill arguing that wearing a face mask while outdoors, fine. That's your decision, but those are the directives in your State. Personally, if the situation was the same in NSW or if I was in Victoria, I wouldn't mind complying. Yes, it's a hassle, it's inconvenient, uncomfortable etc, no one is disputing that. But I don't think its oppressive and if you do think that it is, then I think you're pretty lucky to have that as the greatest amount of hardship placed upon you by the State. I dont think you understand the issue here. People here look at whats happening in the US, read the Karen memes, and think face masks are just a bit of inconvenience for a whinging minority I have worked in mental health services before and still have roots there. Life in Victoria is not the glorious wonderful land of chocolate that you think it is There are people who have been through things you couldnt even see in movies let alone imagine what its like. And you had to be them for a single day you'd be packing your bags and heading north faster than you came here No one is saying life in Victoria is glorious etc. The whole situation sucks and we've all been dealt with a shit sandwich. I think we can all agree that the faster we get out of this the better. If people are having trouble with the lockdowns, then get as much help and support as you can find. But if wearing a mask can speed this whole thing up, then go for it. If it does nothing, then at least it shows everyone that they're not alone and everyone is doing what they can to try and overcome the shit sandwich. If you think a 6 month framework where mandatory face masks play a role is speed then we have different opinions on the definition of speed. The whole catalyst for this lockdown is because when staring down the barrel of numbers coming down slowly over a 6 month period, the Victorian government said that 6 months was too long. A speedy resolution means these restrictions that are wearing us down are over the nanosecond it is viable. Not rolled out as some part of 6 month plan If face masks were so important in the control of Covid then simple question: Why doesnt the Victorian government hold the AFL grand final in Victoria with 100,000 at the MCG on the condition that everybody wears a mask? What we saw last night was 6,000 people spread across a stadium in the midst of a global pandemic watching a sporting event so they can celebrate their team and enjoy these little moments in life. Now the reason why such a radical event which wont happen in some places in the world was able to unfold was because the NSW government backs its claims that social distancing, group numbers and good hygiene are undeniably and indisputably effective measures for stopping the spread of Covid. Not just the football match but also schools, restaurants, retail shops etc... So if Victoria are so sure face masks are effective then why can't Victorians, who are obligated by law to wear masks, go to school, go to work, go to retail stores, attend sporting events etc...? If the advice by medical practitioners is if nothing else a face mask will stop you from getting covid, then why is it they wont let their own staff attend to and treat people with covid with nothing else but a mask And the answer is simple. Because face masks are non consequential in the scheme of things. Face mask or not, it is deemed by the government to be too dangerous for people to so much as walk into a retail store and buy a pair of shoes. Despite the critical importance of education and the significant impact it is having state wide, face mask or no, it is deemed too dangerous for kids to go back to school How does a government roll out a legal framework for a tool in the battle against this virus that it doesnt even back on the smallest scale of what we can and can't do in Victoria. Being forced to wear masks hasn't opened us up to a single liberty This isnt about lockdown. This isnt about wanting to come out too early. This isnt about wanting to travel around the country as if nothing is happening or fighting against reasonable and rational instructions. This is about wanting the exact same rights and freedoms as the states that we can legally walk into long before we can legally stop wearing masks Since the end of March people have been looking for that magical covid cure. Despite everything that has been said you still get people today buying miracle cures and magical pills in a naive attempt to vacinate themselves from this madness. Victorians have found that in face masks. If you have a face mask you cant get the virus. They have a peice of tangible cloth in their hand that is a magical cure for their nightmare but it only works if everybody else is wearing one and then the whole problem will disappear. The level of naivety around masks is frightening. let alone those people who are actually sick who think they can move freely in the community because they have covered their face The battle against this virus has never been about forcing our beliefs or opinions on others. If you anybody else feels comfortable wearing a mask then by all means do that. Your right to wear a mask is just as important as mine not to wear one. But for something to be mandated by law and enforced with aggression then at the very least it needs to be scientifically proven and backed with substantial data to prove that our battle against this virus will be made easier with that mechanism in place. And given nobody in the government in any field backs the use of masks as a safe "return to normal" in the same way NSW and other states have backed social distancing and hygiene, then at best it is a tool for front line staff as part of a broader package of safety regulations, and a placebo for stupid people In addition, everyone is breathing a higher concentration of Carbon Dioxide. Health professionals are trained on how to use them, the general public are not.
This is just a lie.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]So the Victorian government is pushing to keep face mask rules in place for several months. Long after the numbers are have dropped further and long after people have returned to some sense of normality If people can't smile at each other as they walk past then you can break their very spirit and keep them emotionally isolated as they robotically go about their mundane lives. Human interaction and social contact are two different things I don't think they have a clue what they are fighting against to be honest. The only thing people in Victoria can hope for right now is that the powers arent extended because they sure as hell don't know what a functioning society is supposed to look like Seems to be fine in Asian countries. Are you telling me in Asian countries that people have to wear a face mask at all times when they are leaving the house, or at home with people not part of their household, for an extended period of time long after the threat to society, or they risk legal enforcement and a $200 fine at a time they have been financially crippled?
Asian countries were masks often because of pollution, not because of the governmentFaces define us as a species. If you stare at anything long enough you'll see a face. The reason why artificial intelligence will never come close to real life is because they can't emulate the complex facial expressions that convey emotion and make contact meaningful If you wanted to break down a group of people the first thing you'll do is take away their identity and distance them emotionally. We are a mere 4 weeks into this madness and there have already been mental health packages in the millions aimed at trying to bail people out. Pissing out the spot fires of a situation they created If this was to go on for a 6 month period then the very fabric that defines us as a species will be torn away and people will go mad If you can smile at somebody when you walk past them or thank the checkout assistant with a smile then its these little things that will bring us together as a group of people who are forced into troubled and unprecedented times. Its the Aussie spirit and its what has gotten many of us through this There has to be a point where some kind of common sense or reason comes into controlling a virus that we can very easily avoid through social distancing and hygeine. Not just swinging an axe through everything that defines us as we try to eliminate the host of this virus and any potential host Any government that does not understand the importance of mental health, well being and social fabric should not be in charge of a group of people whose lives literally depend on their actions If the Victorian government can't get us out of this mess in 4 weeks then that by their own definition is an admission of failure. If having the numbers reduce gradually over a 6 month period was unacceptable and the catalyst for the latest lockdown, then having people muzzled like dogs several months from now is the furthest thing from unacceptable So they still wear masks often, meaning all this stuff about smiles being essential are not valid. I also agree that social distancing is the most important way to safeguard. No one is doubting that. I think you're creating all these straw men by exaggerating the circumstances and then knocking them down. If you want to die on a hill arguing that wearing a face mask while outdoors, fine. That's your decision, but those are the directives in your State. Personally, if the situation was the same in NSW or if I was in Victoria, I wouldn't mind complying. Yes, it's a hassle, it's inconvenient, uncomfortable etc, no one is disputing that. But I don't think its oppressive and if you do think that it is, then I think you're pretty lucky to have that as the greatest amount of hardship placed upon you by the State. I dont think you understand the issue here. People here look at whats happening in the US, read the Karen memes, and think face masks are just a bit of inconvenience for a whinging minority I have worked in mental health services before and still have roots there. Life in Victoria is not the glorious wonderful land of chocolate that you think it is There are people who have been through things you couldnt even see in movies let alone imagine what its like. And you had to be them for a single day you'd be packing your bags and heading north faster than you came here No one is saying life in Victoria is glorious etc. The whole situation sucks and we've all been dealt with a shit sandwich. I think we can all agree that the faster we get out of this the better. If people are having trouble with the lockdowns, then get as much help and support as you can find. But if wearing a mask can speed this whole thing up, then go for it. If it does nothing, then at least it shows everyone that they're not alone and everyone is doing what they can to try and overcome the shit sandwich. If you think a 6 month framework where mandatory face masks play a role is speed then we have different opinions on the definition of speed. The whole catalyst for this lockdown is because when staring down the barrel of numbers coming down slowly over a 6 month period, the Victorian government said that 6 months was too long. A speedy resolution means these restrictions that are wearing us down are over the nanosecond it is viable. Not rolled out as some part of 6 month plan If face masks were so important in the control of Covid then simple question: Why doesnt the Victorian government hold the AFL grand final in Victoria with 100,000 at the MCG on the condition that everybody wears a mask? What we saw last night was 6,000 people spread across a stadium in the midst of a global pandemic watching a sporting event so they can celebrate their team and enjoy these little moments in life. Now the reason why such a radical event which wont happen in some places in the world was able to unfold was because the NSW government backs its claims that social distancing, group numbers and good hygiene are undeniably and indisputably effective measures for stopping the spread of Covid. Not just the football match but also schools, restaurants, retail shops etc... So if Victoria are so sure face masks are effective then why can't Victorians, who are obligated by law to wear masks, go to school, go to work, go to retail stores, attend sporting events etc...? If the advice by medical practitioners is if nothing else a face mask will stop you from getting covid, then why is it they wont let their own staff attend to and treat people with covid with nothing else but a mask And the answer is simple. Because face masks are non consequential in the scheme of things. Face mask or not, it is deemed by the government to be too dangerous for people to so much as walk into a retail store and buy a pair of shoes. Despite the critical importance of education and the significant impact it is having state wide, face mask or no, it is deemed too dangerous for kids to go back to school How does a government roll out a legal framework for a tool in the battle against this virus that it doesnt even back on the smallest scale of what we can and can't do in Victoria. Being forced to wear masks hasn't opened us up to a single liberty This isnt about lockdown. This isnt about wanting to come out too early. This isnt about wanting to travel around the country as if nothing is happening or fighting against reasonable and rational instructions. This is about wanting the exact same rights and freedoms as the states that we can legally walk into long before we can legally stop wearing masks Since the end of March people have been looking for that magical covid cure. Despite everything that has been said you still get people today buying miracle cures and magical pills in a naive attempt to vacinate themselves from this madness. Victorians have found that in face masks. If you have a face mask you cant get the virus. They have a peice of tangible cloth in their hand that is a magical cure for their nightmare but it only works if everybody else is wearing one and then the whole problem will disappear. The level of naivety around masks is frightening. let alone those people who are actually sick who think they can move freely in the community because they have covered their face The battle against this virus has never been about forcing our beliefs or opinions on others. If you anybody else feels comfortable wearing a mask then by all means do that. Your right to wear a mask is just as important as mine not to wear one. But for something to be mandated by law and enforced with aggression then at the very least it needs to be scientifically proven and backed with substantial data to prove that our battle against this virus will be made easier with that mechanism in place. And given nobody in the government in any field backs the use of masks as a safe "return to normal" in the same way NSW and other states have backed social distancing and hygiene, then at best it is a tool for front line staff as part of a broader package of safety regulations, and a placebo for stupid people In addition, everyone is breathing a higher concentration of Carbon Dioxide. Health professionals are trained on how to use them, the general public are not.
This is just a lie. Every second line written is a lie by Aikhme. It's no wonder he loves Trump. Just like the aforementioned when caught in a lie he either ignores it, shifts the goalposts or repeats it.
Member since 2008.
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bluebird
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The fact 19 out of 39 people opposed giving the Victorian government extended power during a global pandemic speaks volumes for how little confidence there is right now
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AJF
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Interesting article about Tony Abbott's view on Covid restrictions: Tony Abbott, the former Australian prime minister tipped to become a UK trade envoy, has railed against Covid “health dictatorships”, saying the economic cost of lockdowns meant families should be allowed to consider letting elderly relatives with the coronavirus die by letting nature take its course. He claimed it was costing the Australian government as much as $200,000 (£110,000) to give an elderly person an extra year’s life, substantially beyond what governments would usually pay for life-saving drugs. Abbott said not enough politicians were “thinking like health economists trained to pose uncomfortable questions about the level of deaths we might have to live with”. More politicians should have asked whether the cure was proportionate to the disease. Abbott also claimed officials were getting trapped in crisis mode for longer than they needed, “especially if the crisis adds to their authority or boosts their standing. Six months into this pandemic, the aim in most countries is still to preserve almost every life at almost any cost, with renewed lockdowns [being] governments’ instinctive response to any increase in the virus. “On the way their objectives have shifted from flattening the curve so hospitals would not be overwhelmed, to suppression, to zero community transmission.” He accused the media of “virus hysteria in a bid to show the deadly threat is not confined to the very old, the already very sick or those exposed to massive viral loads”. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/sep/01/tony-abbott-some-elderly-covid-patients-could-be-left-to-die-naturally
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bluebird
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+xInteresting article about Tony Abbott's view on Covid restrictions: Its a common sense article but because of a throw away line it is written as a sadistic piece so people can dismiss the point without fully understanding it. If you agree with Abbott then you agree old people should be sacrificing their lives An unfortunate strategy in journalism and fittingly Abbott has become victim of the point he was literally making
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bluebird
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Here's a different link with a different take on the points made by Abbott https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/tony-abbott-accuses-daniel-andrews-of-running-health-dictatorship/ar-BB18BDXd?li=AAgfYrCJust highlights that lengths journalists will go to in order to sensationlise their own points
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bluebird
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Here's the level of insanity we are dealing with https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/regional-mayors-worried-as-premier-prepares-to-lift-melbourne-travel-restrictions/ar-BB18zZ0U?li=AAgfLCPWhen Victoria came out of lockdown last time the first restriction they lifted was household numbers before people were even allowed to go to work, school or restaurants even though the most infections were household to household. So this led to a situation where people simply visited each other and the virus spread Now that we are coming out of an even worse situation one of the first things they are looking at lifting is travel restrictions even though we know transmission from one region to another is the literal thing we are fighting against. And even though regional Victoria has had to endure 6 weeks of strict and needless lockdown so they can be protected against people from the city. In other words the most useful tool is once against the first thing revoked, and the least useful becomes a permanent fixture Does anybody want to guess what will happen when regional towns offer more liberties than metro and travel is permitted? Travel is something that should only be permitted between regions that have the same rules. Thats the whole fucking point of fencing off areas that are deemed hot spots. Not just imposing a set of rules and giving people the option whether or not to stay Buts thats fine. Only 6 more months to go...
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Burztur
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+xHere's the level of insanity we are dealing with https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/regional-mayors-worried-as-premier-prepares-to-lift-melbourne-travel-restrictions/ar-BB18zZ0U?li=AAgfLCPWhen Victoria came out of lockdown last time the first restriction they lifted was household numbers before people were even allowed to go to work, school or restaurants even though the most infections were household to household. So this led to a situation where people simply visited each other and the virus spread Now that we are coming out of an even worse situation one of the first things they are looking at lifting is travel restrictions even though we know transmission from one region to another is the literal thing we are fighting against. And even though regional Victoria has had to endure 6 weeks of strict and needless lockdown so they can be protected against people from the city. In other words the most useful tool is once against the first thing revoked, and the least useful becomes a permanent fixture Does anybody want to guess what will happen when regional towns offer more liberties than metro and travel is permitted? Travel is something that should only be permitted between regions that have the same rules. Thats the whole fucking point of fencing off areas that are deemed hot spots. Not just imposing a set of rules and giving people the option whether or not to stay Buts thats fine. Only 6 more months to go... This "just highlights that lengths journalists will go to in order to sensationlise their own points"...
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