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paladisious
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Guardian Essential poll: Australians wary of any ‘living with Covid’ strategy that would lead to more deaths
Katharine Murphy Political editor
@murpharoo
Tue 31 Aug 2021 03.30 AEST
Majority of respondents also say lockdowns and other restrictions should continue until substantial proportion of children are fully vaccinated
Australians are concerned about any “living with Covid” strategy that would lead to a significant increase in hospitalisations and deaths – and a majority in the latest Guardian Essential poll think governments should not end current lockdowns until a substantial proportion of children are fully vaccinated.
Amid sustained political, epidemiological and community debate about Australia’s four-phase reopening strategy, the latest Guardian Essential survey of 1,100 respondents finds only 12% of the sample would be comfortable with any transition that increases deaths and hospitalisations.
While senior Coalition players such as the treasurer, Josh Frydenberg, have declared elimination of the Delta variant is impossible, saying Australians must learn to live with the virus, 44% of Guardian Essential respondents (including 37% of Coalition voters in the sample) believe the current strategy should be getting Covid-19 cases down as close to zero as possible.
The same percentage of respondents (44%) say they would be comfortable with a reopening strategy that involves living with a few cases of Covid-19 in the community, as long as there were “very few hospitalisations and deaths”.
Asked to nominate the number of Covid-related deaths that it would be acceptable for Australia to live with once restrictions are eased, 61% of respondents say fewer than 100 deaths per year, 25% say between 100 and 1,000 deaths per year, 10% say between 1,000 and 3,000 deaths per year, 2% say between 3,000 and 5,000 deaths per year, and 3% say more than 5,000 deaths per year.
The latest poll also indicates parents are worried that unvaccinated children are vulnerable in the Delta outbreak. A majority of respondents (58%) say lockdowns and other restrictions should continue until a substantial proportion of children are fully vaccinated.
Underscoring a mood of caution as infections continue to rise, and the national death toll from coronavirus passes 1,000, a majority (65%) also thinks public health measures, such as wearing masks in crowds and social distancing, should remain after the vaccination targets of 70-80% of the population aged over 16 are achieved.
While the Morrison government has been channelling a growing mood of community frustration in the lockdown states, declaring that lockdowns must end once vaccination rates reach between 70 and 80% of the adult population – the poll indicates that a majority nationally (52%, including 51% of Coalition voters in the sample) think the current restrictions are about right, with 23% believing they are too strong and 10% too weak. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/31/guardian-essential-poll-australians-wary-of-any-living-with-covid-strategy-that-would-lead-to-more-deathsThe article goes on a bit longer.
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Muz
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+x+x+x+xCovid jabs brought to you by the Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex Sure, who else would make them? Lol. Day 2 of my 2nd AZ and no side effects as yet except a slightly sore arm. Something like 9.5:10 of the worlds vaccines ever invented only show adverse effects in first five weeks.
Going by the billion administered I reckon the anti-vaxxers are on shaky ground. Went diving this morning and I was fine. I know the clotting thing can happen up to 3 weeks after the dose but what can you do except sit it out? The risk is miniscule and the treatments are much better than they were even if you are unlucky enough to get clotting.
Member since 2008.
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paladisious
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 https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/newspoll-most-australians-are-very-keen-to-be-vaccinated/news-story/2a981fa41db99727ac0f66aba51dbb27The poll's almost a month old, with the 86% willing to get vaccinated or already vaxxed trending up from the Newspoll in Feburary which only had 75%. Hopefully now that it's clear that the only way out of this is the vaccination rate the percentage will be even higher now.
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LFC.
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+x+x+x+xFirst Pfizer jab booked in for September 14th (Y) Great! Had my jab 2 yesterday. Did you pull up alright after each jab? First one the side effects seemed to be worse for me. Sore arm (like really sore, loss of strength, aches even in my shoulder blade), fatigue, and headaches. Lasted about 3 days Second one, I've had the same symptoms but each one less severe. It's day 2 now and I already feel pretty much back to normal. yep and pretty much the norm for the majority...... How many have heard people feeling similar from a Flu shot, I know one bloke reckons he suffered for 2wks. What he thinks suffering may differ to others and thats the thing. Not everyone gets a flu shot either, I've only had it twice just recently due to covid and rules applied visiting aged care where my mother in law is, done no probs at all. Always %'s - most no issue. This has become such a beat up for we never had to consdier doing this in the big picture. Christ its going to help you more than not by my rocket science mind :) yes tsf anti vaxxers well thats their issue to deal with, we shall see whats to become in time for some. Its one of those easy decisions to me which team you need to be on. Here's an interesting one...... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-CDC-says.htmlKey points Effectiveness of COVID vaccines in keeping patients out of hospitals falls to as low as 75% against Delta variant: People over 75 are highest risk Effectiveness of the COVID-19 vaccines in keeping recipients out of the hospital drops as low as 75% over time, the CDC reports Panel met this week to advise the CDC on its decision whether to approve COVID-19 vaccine booster in the U.S. White House officials announced earlier this month that they plan to roll out boosters starting September 20 Israel has already begun the rollout of booster shots, and has found that the shots are effective
Love Football
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tsf
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+x+x+x+xFirst Pfizer jab booked in for September 14th (Y) Great! Had my jab 2 yesterday. Did you pull up alright after each jab? First one the side effects seemed to be worse for me. Sore arm (like really sore, loss of strength, aches even in my shoulder blade), fatigue, and headaches. Lasted about 3 days Second one, I've had the same symptoms but each one less severe. It's day 2 now and I already feel pretty much back to normal. I was exceptionally sick the day after after my second. Having said that I made margaritas all day and night in my backyard with my mate 30 minutes after I had my second vaccine.
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paladisious
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+x+xCovid jabs brought to you by the Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex Sure, who else would make them? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2KbZXMwaAc
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sydneyfc1987
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+x+x+x+xCovid jabs brought to you by the Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex Sure, who else would make them? Lol. Day 2 of my 2nd AZ and no side effects as yet except a slightly sore arm. Something like 9.5:10 of the worlds vaccines ever invented only show adverse effects in first five weeks.
Going by the billion administered I reckon the anti-vaxxers are on shaky ground. I love how anti-vaxxers are so concerned about possible long-term effects of the vaccine yet are completely blasé regarding the very real, fairly common long-term effects of the virus itself. The first test subjects for the vaccines had their shots 15 months ago and NOTHING has arisen. "but,.... but.... but ......the corporations... sheeple etc"
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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sydneyfc1987
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Jimbo would refuse to get the vaccine.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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paladisious
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Melb Uni have a fortnightly poll on vaccine hesitancy as well, it turns out. The last report released on the 20th painted a somewhat more grim picture with 11.7% not willing to be vaxxed and 8.6% unsure, although fortunately this is trending down as well. https://melbourneinstitute.unimelb.edu.au/publications/research-insights/ttpn/vaccination-report
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Burztur
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+x+xCovid jabs brought to you by the Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex Sure, who else would make them? People that make horse dewormer... wait, that's Big Pharma as well!
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Burztur
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+x+x+x+xCovid jabs brought to you by the Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex Sure, who else would make them? Lol. Day 2 of my 2nd AZ and no side effects as yet except a slightly sore arm. Something like 9.5:10 of the worlds vaccines ever invented only show adverse effects in first five weeks.
Going by the billion administered I reckon the anti-vaxxers are on shaky ground. It's just a corporate media coverup!
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tsf
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+x+x+xCovid jabs brought to you by the Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex Sure, who else would make them? People that make horse dewormer... wait, that's Big Pharma as well! :D
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tsf
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Literally have an old mate who is so rabidly anti-vax you could not change his mind. He non-stop posts about it so I had to mute him. He goes on about chemicals in your body from big pharma, literally does coke a few times a week in his shed when his missus goes to bed. Like the fake boobs influencers lol.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xLiterally have an old mate who is so rabidly anti-vax you could not change his mind. He non-stop posts about it so I had to mute him. He goes on about chemicals in your body from big pharma, literally does coke a few times a week in his shed when his missus goes to bed. Like the fake boobs influencers lol. What about the short lived story that one of the side effects of Pfizer vaccine was an increase in bra cup size for women under 40? Hahahahahahah literally caused at least 4 girls I know to cancel their AZ appointments to wait for Pfizer back in July? hahahahah
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dirk vanadidas
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+xGuardian Essential poll: Australians wary of any ‘living with Covid’ strategy that would lead to more deaths
Katharine Murphy Political editor
@murpharoo
Tue 31 Aug 2021 03.30 AEST
Majority of respondents also say lockdowns and other restrictions should continue until substantial proportion of children are fully vaccinated
Australians are concerned about any “living with Covid” strategy that would lead to a significant increase in hospitalisations and deaths – and a majority in the latest Guardian Essential poll think governments should not end current lockdowns until a substantial proportion of children are fully vaccinated.
Amid sustained political, epidemiological and community debate about Australia’s four-phase reopening strategy, the latest Guardian Essential survey of 1,100 respondents finds only 12% of the sample would be comfortable with any transition that increases deaths and hospitalisations.
While senior Coalition players such as the treasurer, Josh Frydenberg, have declared elimination of the Delta variant is impossible, saying Australians must learn to live with the virus, 44% of Guardian Essential respondents (including 37% of Coalition voters in the sample) believe the current strategy should be getting Covid-19 cases down as close to zero as possible.
The same percentage of respondents (44%) say they would be comfortable with a reopening strategy that involves living with a few cases of Covid-19 in the community, as long as there were “very few hospitalisations and deaths”.
Asked to nominate the number of Covid-related deaths that it would be acceptable for Australia to live with once restrictions are eased, 61% of respondents say fewer than 100 deaths per year, 25% say between 100 and 1,000 deaths per year, 10% say between 1,000 and 3,000 deaths per year, 2% say between 3,000 and 5,000 deaths per year, and 3% say more than 5,000 deaths per year.
The latest poll also indicates parents are worried that unvaccinated children are vulnerable in the Delta outbreak. A majority of respondents (58%) say lockdowns and other restrictions should continue until a substantial proportion of children are fully vaccinated.
Underscoring a mood of caution as infections continue to rise, and the national death toll from coronavirus passes 1,000, a majority (65%) also thinks public health measures, such as wearing masks in crowds and social distancing, should remain after the vaccination targets of 70-80% of the population aged over 16 are achieved.
While the Morrison government has been channelling a growing mood of community frustration in the lockdown states, declaring that lockdowns must end once vaccination rates reach between 70 and 80% of the adult population – the poll indicates that a majority nationally (52%, including 51% of Coalition voters in the sample) think the current restrictions are about right, with 23% believing they are too strong and 10% too weak. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/31/guardian-essential-poll-australians-wary-of-any-living-with-covid-strategy-that-would-lead-to-more-deathsThe article goes on a bit longer. the uk gaurdian readership is old crusties and the BBC, so just ignore totally irrelevant
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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dirk vanadidas
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+x+x+xCovid jabs brought to you by the Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex Sure, who else would make them? Bikies. i was taking the piss out of the lefties who bang on about the military industrial complex who (MIC) apparantly have an interest in perpetuating war, no different with the pharma and wanting to be jabbed every 6 months as the anti bodies fade away from the jab, mass injections in perpetuity
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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tsf
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+x+xLiterally have an old mate who is so rabidly anti-vax you could not change his mind. He non-stop posts about it so I had to mute him. He goes on about chemicals in your body from big pharma, literally does coke a few times a week in his shed when his missus goes to bed. Like the fake boobs influencers lol. What about the short lived story that one of the side effects of Pfizer vaccine was an increase in bra cup size for women under 40? Hahahahahahah literally caused at least 4 girls I know to cancel their AZ appointments to wait for Pfizer back in July? hahahahah 😂😂😂
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tsf
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K,
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+x+x+x+xCovid jabs brought to you by the Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex Sure, who else would make them? Bikies. i was taking the piss out of the lefties who bang on about the military industrial complex who (MIC) apparantly have an interest in perpetuating war, no different with the pharma and wanting to be jabbed every 6 months as the anti bodies fade away from the jab, mass injections in perpetuity No worries, own those lefties. You own them.
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paladisious
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+x+xGuardian Essential poll: Australians wary of any ‘living with Covid’ strategy that would lead to more deaths
Katharine Murphy Political editor
@murpharoo
Tue 31 Aug 2021 03.30 AEST
Majority of respondents also say lockdowns and other restrictions should continue until substantial proportion of children are fully vaccinated
Australians are concerned about any “living with Covid” strategy that would lead to a significant increase in hospitalisations and deaths – and a majority in the latest Guardian Essential poll think governments should not end current lockdowns until a substantial proportion of children are fully vaccinated.
Amid sustained political, epidemiological and community debate about Australia’s four-phase reopening strategy, the latest Guardian Essential survey of 1,100 respondents finds only 12% of the sample would be comfortable with any transition that increases deaths and hospitalisations.
While senior Coalition players such as the treasurer, Josh Frydenberg, have declared elimination of the Delta variant is impossible, saying Australians must learn to live with the virus, 44% of Guardian Essential respondents (including 37% of Coalition voters in the sample) believe the current strategy should be getting Covid-19 cases down as close to zero as possible.
The same percentage of respondents (44%) say they would be comfortable with a reopening strategy that involves living with a few cases of Covid-19 in the community, as long as there were “very few hospitalisations and deaths”.
Asked to nominate the number of Covid-related deaths that it would be acceptable for Australia to live with once restrictions are eased, 61% of respondents say fewer than 100 deaths per year, 25% say between 100 and 1,000 deaths per year, 10% say between 1,000 and 3,000 deaths per year, 2% say between 3,000 and 5,000 deaths per year, and 3% say more than 5,000 deaths per year.
The latest poll also indicates parents are worried that unvaccinated children are vulnerable in the Delta outbreak. A majority of respondents (58%) say lockdowns and other restrictions should continue until a substantial proportion of children are fully vaccinated.
Underscoring a mood of caution as infections continue to rise, and the national death toll from coronavirus passes 1,000, a majority (65%) also thinks public health measures, such as wearing masks in crowds and social distancing, should remain after the vaccination targets of 70-80% of the population aged over 16 are achieved.
While the Morrison government has been channelling a growing mood of community frustration in the lockdown states, declaring that lockdowns must end once vaccination rates reach between 70 and 80% of the adult population – the poll indicates that a majority nationally (52%, including 51% of Coalition voters in the sample) think the current restrictions are about right, with 23% believing they are too strong and 10% too weak. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/31/guardian-essential-poll-australians-wary-of-any-living-with-covid-strategy-that-would-lead-to-more-deathsThe article goes on a bit longer. the uk gaurdian readership is old crusties and the BBC, so just ignore totally irrelevant The poll wasn't of Guardian readers. As I understand it, they make sure to have a representative sample of voters.
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paladisious
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Rene Meulensteen testing positive to covid in London before heading to Qatar for the WCQ. 57 years old but fully vaxxed and asymptomatic, so hopefully he'll be fine. Obviously he won't be travelling to Doha. Vidmar won't be coming either after being one of the unlucky South Australians to have to double quarantine after the Olympics. Arnie will have to be putting out the cones and cutting the oranges by himself lol https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/socceroos-assistant-coach-contracts-covid-569329
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Podiacide
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+xLiterally have an old mate who is so rabidly anti-vax you could not change his mind. He non-stop posts about it so I had to mute him. He goes on about chemicals in your body from big pharma, literally does coke a few times a week in his shed when his missus goes to bed. Like the fake boobs influencers lol. Its not always the ones you expect. I have a kiwi friend with a science degree who is now a high level cyber security consultant with KPMG who has fallen down the yoga all natural immunity rabbit hole and is now outraged at the prospect of vaccine passports. She is so delusional that she thinks she can fly from NZ to Europe unvaccinated to chase after some swede who dumped her. With NSW looking like its determined to open up at 80%, Byron bay and surrounds will be quite a show to watch as all the defiant anti-vaxxers get punched in the face by reality and get carted off to hospitals and the morgue.
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Podiacide
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+xLiterally have an old mate who is so rabidly anti-vax you could not change his mind. He non-stop posts about it so I had to mute him. He goes on about chemicals in your body from big pharma, literally does coke a few times a week in his shed when his missus goes to bed. Like the fake boobs influencers lol. Its not always the ones you expect. I have a kiwi friend with a science degree who is now a high level cyber security consultant with KPMG who has fallen down the yoga all natural immunity rabbit hole and is now outraged at the prospect of vaccine passports. She is so delusional that she thinks she can fly from NZ to Europe unvaccinated to chase after some swede who dumped her. With NSW looking like its determined to open up at 80%, Byron bay and surrounds will be quite a show to watch as all the defiant anti-vaxxers get punched in the face by reality and get carted off to hospitals and the morgue. +x+x+x+x+xCovid jabs brought to you by the Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex Sure, who else would make them? Lol. Day 2 of my 2nd AZ and no side effects as yet except a slightly sore arm. Something like 9.5:10 of the worlds vaccines ever invented only show adverse effects in first five weeks.
Going by the billion administered I reckon the anti-vaxxers are on shaky ground. I love how anti-vaxxers are so concerned about possible long-term effects of the vaccine yet are completely blasé regarding the very real, fairly common long-term effects of the virus itself. The first test subjects for the vaccines had their shots 15 months ago and NOTHING has arisen. "but,.... but.... but ......the corporations... sheeple etc" 
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Podiacide
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So Victoria joins NSW in abandoning the idea of COVID zero. Thank god.
But there is now a clear divide with bad incentives all round.
Live with it and mitigate risks - NSW and VIC
Covid zero - the rest
Because of lockdowns people in NSW and Vic are getting vaccinated faster than most people expected and at levels higher than most expected - NSW particularly but watch Victoria follow suit as the Premier told them today its their only way out of lockdown hell.
NSW and VIC (and ACT but they are a conforming bunch) will get the overall nation's vaccination rate over 80% in November or December. WA, QLD and SA have had no cases most of the year, their leaders riding high on keeping themselves locked away from rest of the country, their vaaccination rates will fall further and further behind NSW et al.
For the covid zero states there are very strong disincentives for them to follow the Doherty map - Keep delaying till a far higher (and probably unrealistic) vaccination rate, keeping intact the joys of covid free living they are now enjoying or follow the roadmap targets and see cases rise, deaths happen and their citizens shit the bed. Makes sense for them to do everything to delay the opening of state borders - demand kids included in targets, question the modelling, ignore the modelling etc etc. There is actually a strong disincentive for citizens in these states to get vaccinated to help their citizens and country reach the agreed targets. They view it as helping bring the virus to their communities while they are feeling safe now at this point in time.
NSW and Victorian citizens are utterly miserable in lockdowns and those vaccine targets are the only light at the end of a horrible tunnel. No way will they allow governments to keep moving the goalposts on this.
This will be the biggest test of the Federation's ability to stay together in its history.
I read a scenario in ABC news yesterday where the Commonwealth could open international borders (something they control) and let planes fly into Perth (Commonwealth owns all the airports) but then as interstate and international passengers leave the airport they could all be arrested by WA police for breaking covid laws.
Of course the Covid zero premiers and citizens will have to accept reality someday and its in their best interests to actually get their vaccination rates as high as possible ASAP but as they say - never get between a politician and self interest
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Podiacide
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So no victorians on this forum? No one mentioning that Dan has completely changed course after 18 months and his announcement of a lockdown extension will make Melbourne the longest locked down city in the world.
I can honestly see Victorians revolting and protesting against this lockdown as weather improves, NSW opens up a month or two earlier, and just general overhwlming frustration with lockdown kicks in. Another year of no AFL grand final and Melbourne cup is really going to hurt morale. Spring is a highlight of living in Melbourne.
Maybe the Melbourne folk are too busy drowning their sorrows. I better get back to my drinking
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paladisious
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Over 10% infection in Wilcannia, absolutely heartbreaking and perhaps the most infected individual place in the world, but because they don't vote Coalition or bring in the $$$ the NSW government not only don't give a shit, they literally equate them to dickheads in their own words, victim blaming them for a funeral even though it was within their own rules at the time.
I realise that this is straight out of the playbook for the neocons; a government governing in the interests of regular people is the last thing they want, but with their federal aged care minister not even knowing how many people died under his watch and our head of federal government not bothering to order vaccines that his mates didn't own shares in or fucking off to Hawaii while Aussies burned and then lying about it I'm amazed that 99% of Australians aren't putting Coalition heads on pikes around the country, but then again when the narrative we discuss comes via Murdoch and the Daily Mail then what can you expect.
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mcjules
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+xSo Victoria joins NSW in abandoning the idea of COVID zero. Thank god. But there is now a clear divide with bad incentives all round. Live with it and mitigate risks - NSW and VIC Covid zero - the rest Because of lockdowns people in NSW and Vic are getting vaccinated faster than most people expected and at levels higher than most expected - NSW particularly but watch Victoria follow suit as the Premier told them today its their only way out of lockdown hell. NSW and VIC (and ACT but they are a conforming bunch) will get the overall nation's vaccination rate over 80% in November or December. WA, QLD and SA have had no cases most of the year, their leaders riding high on keeping themselves locked away from rest of the country, their vaaccination rates will fall further and further behind NSW et al. For the covid zero states there are very strong disincentives for them to follow the Doherty map - Keep delaying till a far higher (and probably unrealistic) vaccination rate, keeping intact the joys of covid free living they are now enjoying or follow the roadmap targets and see cases rise, deaths happen and their citizens shit the bed. Makes sense for them to do everything to delay the opening of state borders - demand kids included in targets, question the modelling, ignore the modelling etc etc. There is actually a strong disincentive for citizens in these states to get vaccinated to help their citizens and country reach the agreed targets. They view it as helping bring the virus to their communities while they are feeling safe now at this point in time. NSW and Victorian citizens are utterly miserable in lockdowns and those vaccine targets are the only light at the end of a horrible tunnel. No way will they allow governments to keep moving the goalposts on this. This will be the biggest test of the Federation's ability to stay together in its history. I read a scenario in ABC news yesterday where the Commonwealth could open international borders (something they control) and let planes fly into Perth (Commonwealth owns all the airports) but then as interstate and international passengers leave the airport they could all be arrested by WA police for breaking covid laws. Of course the Covid zero premiers and citizens will have to accept reality someday and its in their best interests to actually get their vaccination rates as high as possible ASAP but as they say - never get between a politician and self interest I know you and many others are having a tough time of it but there are so many fallacies in this about the attitudes of citizens in the other states. Getting suckered in too much with the narrative Scomo, Gladys and the media lap dogs facilitate.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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mcjules
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+xOver 10% infection in Wilcannia, absolutely heartbreaking and perhaps the most infected individual place in the world, but because they don't vote Coalition or bring in the $$$ the NSW doesn't give a shit, literally equating them to dickheads in their own words, victim blaming them for a funeral even though it was within their own rules at the time. I realise that this is straight out of the playbook for the neocons; a government governing in the interests of regular people is the last thing they want, but with their federal aged care minister not even knowing how many people died under his watch and our head of federal government not bothering to order vaccines that his mates didn't own shares in or fucking off to Hawaii while Aussies burned and then lying about it I'm amazed that 99% of Australians aren't putting Coalition heads on pikes around the country, but then again when the narrative we discuss comes via Murdoch and the Daily Mail then what can you expect. ha posted the same thing almost simultaneously. The way their trying to repaint Scomo and Gladys as liberators when they've caused a lot of misery and grief (and I'm sad to say the worst is yet to come) is just incredible
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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Burztur
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+x[quote]For the covid zero states there are very strong disincentives for them to follow the Doherty map - Keep delaying till a far higher (and probably unrealistic) vaccination rate, keeping intact the joys of covid free living they are now enjoying or follow the roadmap targets and see cases rise, deaths happen and their citizens shit the bed. Makes sense for them to do everything to delay the opening of state borders - demand kids included in targets, question the modelling, ignore the modelling etc etc. There is actually a strong disincentive for citizens in these states to get vaccinated to help their citizens and country reach the agreed targets. They view it as helping bring the virus to their communities while they are feeling safe now at this point in time.
I read a scenario in ABC news yesterday where the Commonwealth could open international borders (something they control) and let planes fly into Perth (Commonwealth owns all the airports) but then as interstate and international passengers leave the airport they could all be arrested by WA police for breaking covid laws.
It's interest with the disincentive as I was wondering about that too. Theoretically, the anti-vaxxer camp could hold the entire country at ransom if we were sitting between 70%-80%. Now this would shift to the States wanting to slow things down. I also don't see the airports being open example as being realistic. All you need is one flight and a stack of arrests/mandatory quarantine and then people won't travel there.
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Burztur
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Podiacide
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+x+xSo Victoria joins NSW in abandoning the idea of COVID zero. Thank god. But there is now a clear divide with bad incentives all round. Live with it and mitigate risks - NSW and VIC Covid zero - the rest Because of lockdowns people in NSW and Vic are getting vaccinated faster than most people expected and at levels higher than most expected - NSW particularly but watch Victoria follow suit as the Premier told them today its their only way out of lockdown hell. NSW and VIC (and ACT but they are a conforming bunch) will get the overall nation's vaccination rate over 80% in November or December. WA, QLD and SA have had no cases most of the year, their leaders riding high on keeping themselves locked away from rest of the country, their vaaccination rates will fall further and further behind NSW et al. For the covid zero states there are very strong disincentives for them to follow the Doherty map - Keep delaying till a far higher (and probably unrealistic) vaccination rate, keeping intact the joys of covid free living they are now enjoying or follow the roadmap targets and see cases rise, deaths happen and their citizens shit the bed. Makes sense for them to do everything to delay the opening of state borders - demand kids included in targets, question the modelling, ignore the modelling etc etc. There is actually a strong disincentive for citizens in these states to get vaccinated to help their citizens and country reach the agreed targets. They view it as helping bring the virus to their communities while they are feeling safe now at this point in time. NSW and Victorian citizens are utterly miserable in lockdowns and those vaccine targets are the only light at the end of a horrible tunnel. No way will they allow governments to keep moving the goalposts on this. This will be the biggest test of the Federation's ability to stay together in its history. I read a scenario in ABC news yesterday where the Commonwealth could open international borders (something they control) and let planes fly into Perth (Commonwealth owns all the airports) but then as interstate and international passengers leave the airport they could all be arrested by WA police for breaking covid laws. Of course the Covid zero premiers and citizens will have to accept reality someday and its in their best interests to actually get their vaccination rates as high as possible ASAP but as they say - never get between a politician and self interest I know you and many others are having a tough time of it but there are so many fallacies in this about the attitudes of citizens in the other states. Getting suckered in too much with the narrative Scomo, Gladys and the media lap dogs facilitate. Care to Outline the fallacies then. Unlike you, I have consistently attacked politicians from both sides and lamented the politicisation of the debate. Debate the facts instead of Ad Hominem attacks, be an adult....
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