Legacy of Socceroo coaches 2005 onwards


Legacy of Socceroo coaches 2005 onwards

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Decentric
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It has been some 15 years with 4 World Cup Qualification campaigns. A few of us longer in the tooth have had to go back to 1973 with Jimmy Mackay's long range strike that qualified us for the 1974 World Cup. We had a 32 year absence.

Frank Farina

Frank started the 2006 WCQ campaign , (I think). Frank was sacked by Lowy, who replaced him with Guus Hiddink. To his credit Frank pledged his support in helping Guus in any way he could to qualify the Socceroos for the 2006 WC in Germany.

Guus Hiddink

Aus had a coach of enormous stature within world football. For  the first time Aus had a very well trained and educated European coach with KNVB training. Guus finished Frank's work and Aus qualified for Germany. The squad just managed to  qualify from first round of the WC and qualified for the last 16. Italy knocked Guus's team out.

Guus helped instal another Dutch national as FFA Tech Dir - Rob Baan ( succeeded by Han Berger). Australian football  has changed immeasurably since with European powerhouse coach education. Aus players are now usually pretty sound tactically.

Graham Arnold

Was coach for a few months qualifying Aus for the Asian Cup - then playing in the 2007 Asian Cup. However, Aus performed well below expectations in 2007 Asian Cup.  Nevertheless,  Arnie  learnt a lot for his next stint as Socceroo coach in present times.

Pim Verbeek

Another Dutch coach, with a moderate CV compared to Guus, but  Pim engineered a successful WCQ campaign where Aus was the first team to qualify for 2 010 South Africa. Did Pim  qualify Aus for an Asian Cup too? Aus learnt to be defensively well organised and pragmatic  away from home under Pim in WCQs.  The Socceroos became a battle hardened, cohesive  unit.

Pim achieved Aus's biggest victory on the biggest stage, beating Serbia 2-1 in South A. They accrued 4 points in the  South A 2010 WC - same as Guus in 2006.

I think Pim is the only only coach ( plus Rale Rsic in 1973-4) who has coached a successful WCQ campaign over 2 years and subsequently followed on coaching at the World Cup. Sadly, Pim died recently - RIP.

Holger Osieck

I think Aus went backwards under his tenure, as he was reluctant to blood young players.  Holger was from the German old school - not the Das Reboot  new generation  like Joachim Low and Jurgen Klopp. To Holger's credit Aus reached the 2011 Asian Cup final under his tutelage.

Gallop sacked him before he coached Aus to the 2014 WC. To his credit Holger played Matt MacKay in the Asian  Cup, who was one of the best players. In addition, he introduced Sasha Ognenovski and Alex Brosque to the Socceroos, after Pim would not select them.

Ange Postecoglou

Ange inherited a struggling team. He brought many younger players into the team and used friendlies, sagely, to prepare for the 2014 WC in Brazil.  Ange did well in a really tough group in Brazil, probably the group of death, even though no points were scored. Aus gave both Holland and Chile a run for their money, the two teams who  topped the group. Ange set out to play attacking football, which culminated in the Asian Cup  victory in 2015. 

After that  Asian Cup title, Ange  abandoned  conventional formations later in the WCQs, using a strange three at the back formation  (3-6-1).  Eventually the Socceroos only just qualified for the 2018 WC. He perplexingly  resigned before the  2018 World Cup, which is almost unprecedented.

Bert Van Marwijk

Took over a jaded team from Ange and improved their defensive structure  to where they nearly got a result  against World Champs France in the 2018 WC. The Socceroos were competitive in the  other two 2018 WC games, drawing with Denmark (I think).

Graham Arnold 

Current coach, who on paper and CV may be the perfect blend of being an Aussie home grown coach, pragmatic, but he also likes to attack. Arnie has coached a lot at club level since his last Socceroos tenure, with a few A League titles with CCM and SFC. His major problem appears to be enunciating in the media that the Socceroos will dominate the opponents - overly motivating the opposition! Aus  were knocked out in the quarter final of the 2019 Asian Cup under Arnie's tutelage.


Thoughts? 
Edited
4 Years Ago by Decentric
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Only Coach who was any good was Guus - Took it to Brazil and Italy and got us out of the group of a world cup it is a results business - Guus has also coached in the top levels of football Laiga and EPL no other manager on that list has come close to the level (there is a reason for that)....

I would say Pim (RIP) and Ange where' ok' got what they could out of the squad they had no more no less - essentially when it matted in the WC they both couldnt get out of the group - Ange didnt get a point (he did have a crap squad in 2014 however)  never forget us getting spanked by Spain 3-0 after they had already been eliminated.... Pim had given us that game against Serbia (which was pretty epic - we also should of beat Ghana BS RED) and a year later  Ange gave us the Asian cup (which was good at the time but essentially id rather get out of the group of a WC then win the Asian cup 5 times) 

Everyone else has been junk or still is Junk in the case of GA version 2 (which is probably the worst of anyone on the list becuz he was widely unpopular from his 1st stint) 

Our national team reflects directly on the popularity with football in the mainstream media the fact no one gives a f**k about the Socceroos these days is a stark contrast to a decade and a half ago when they were a massive brand which top players and multi million dollar sponsorship deals 

Ange left the Socceroos gig becuz he saw the circus that was run by the clowns at the FFA and eventually his frustration got the better of him (and you cant blame him) - Ange gets credit becuz he actually cares about football in Australia he did really well with the Roar and has done well in Japan. 

these Kangaroos can play football - 
Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017) 

KEEP POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL

Edited
4 Years Ago by Davstar
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Davstar - 5 Aug 2020 10:03 PM
Only Coach who was any good was Guus - Took it to Brazil and Italy and got us out of the group of a world cup it is a results business - Guus has also coached in the top levels of football Laiga and EPL no other manager on that list has come close to the level (there is a reason for that)....




You are a hard taskmaster, Davstar!

Bert VM took Holland to the WC Final against Spain in 2010 in South Africa, so he is arguably more highly credentialed than Guus.

The main problem in the 2018 WC, was the Socceroo forwards couldn't score, but the rest of the team's defensive and attacking  performance was quite good. I think Bert, like Ange did when he took over from Holger, improved Ange's jaded team.

I'm not sure Bert can be  blamed for all those missed opportunities from Leckie, Kruse, Juric, etc? The coach's job is to set up the attacking interplay that  creates  those chances.  
Edited
4 Years Ago by Decentric
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I liked Pim. He knew how to get through a gruelling Asian qualifying process with a limited quality squad.  Copped an unnecessary amount of shit from people who couldn't see the bigger picture of what he was doing.  

I would have been happy for Bert to stay on longer but guys like that don't operate in that fashion. 
Edited
4 Years Ago by ErogenousZone
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I liked Bert. The way he set the team up was almost as good as it could be and as decentric  said it was up to our forwards to score. 
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ErogenousZone - 6 Aug 2020 8:28 AM
I liked Pim. He knew how to get through a gruelling Asian qualifying process with a limited quality squad.  Copped an unnecessary amount of shit from people who couldn't see the bigger picture of what he was doing.  

I would have been happy for Bert to stay on longer but guys like that don't operate in that fashion. 

I feel Pim still had a big chunk of the Golden Generation to get him by. I think he dealt with Asia immensely well. It was a combination of a decent team, good preparation and a poorer opposition compared to the present day. 

Bert certainly settled our defence more I found but I wish he'd been more bold in Russia. In hindsight Luongo, Cahill and even Maclaren should've featured. 
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Appointing Guus was one of Lowys best calls that is for sure.
He came at perfect time especially with the squad he came into, they may not have been as technical as the more technical players of today BUT they had massive Aussie Desire to prove doubters and to show what they had against far more skilful NT's and all had huge tickers !
Having Guus's nouse and in some ways a personality that suited at the times the project "clicked".
Never say die performances.
RIP Pim, he was a numbers man, just do enough to get through, I get that and it made watching frustrating at times but kudos to him, he worked the numbers and got his bonus's :) overall he would have been satisfied with his Roo track record.
I did admire his honesty in what he thought about local players at the time, facts are facts and people hurt hearing something as such.
I feel for Ange, after the highs what he achieved with BR that was sensational his Roo tenure would have some terrible bitter pill to swallow and I don't blame him one bit there.
The Asian Cup win was huge, but after that it just got all too hard mre so serving his employers.
The cattle were struggling - the Brazil WC was killing me to watch.
The last longest WCQ's was even worse.
Bert could have made a great impact last WC IF we took some of the chances what could have been.
Conservative he was but I guess watching them train he saw what the kind of deck he had playing.
He was not a "keeper" for the coaching gig but did what he could with what he had.
I don't see alot improving with Arnie and I don't see anyone any better locally for the position.
I'd like to see another Euro get the gig imo.




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I feel that Pim’s legacy is defined by one game, perhaps unfairly.

He qualified for the WC without losing a game and got Australia’s (equal) record number of points in the group stage. I think I’m also right in saying that all o Germany’s goals can AFTER Cahill’s red card. 

His dour playing style was called out during his tenure and may have led to low support for him before the WC.

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We had some real athletes in 2006, don't know if we do now... it suited Guus' style to a T.
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Aljay - 6 Aug 2020 12:07 PM
I feel that Pim’s legacy is defined by one game, perhaps unfairly.

He qualified for the WC without losing a game and got Australia’s (equal) record number of points in the group stage. I think I’m also right in saying that all o Germany’s goals can AFTER Cahill’s red card. 

His dour playing style was called out during his tenure and may have led to low support for him before the WC.

I think we were very unlucky. 
We would have lost to Germany. The red card against Ghana lead us to fail. 

It was very harsh. I thought a little justice occurred when Suarez did the intentional handball against Ghana. 
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scott20won - 6 Aug 2020 3:22 PM
Aljay - 6 Aug 2020 12:07 PM

I think we were very unlucky. 
We would have lost to Germany. The red card against Ghana lead us to fail. 

It was very harsh. I thought a little justice occurred when Suarez did the intentional handball against Ghana. 

Harsh, but.. fair. Intentional or not, it was DOGSO via handball. The harsh bit though is, arm next to body could sometimes be not called as handball
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Decentric - 6 Aug 2020 7:25 AM
Davstar - 5 Aug 2020 10:03 PM


You are a hard taskmaster, Davstar!

Bert VM took Holland to the WC Final against Spain in 2010 in South Africa, so he is arguably more highly credentialed than Guus.

The main problem in the 2018 WC, was the Socceroo forwards couldn't score, but the rest of the team's defensive and attacking  performance was quite good. I think Bert, like Ange did when he took over from Holger, improved Ange's jaded team.

I'm not sure Bert can be  blamed for all those missed opportunities from Leckie, Kruse, Juric, etc? The coach's job is to set up the attacking interplay that  creates  those chances.  

Bert did great with Holland im not discrediting that but he was a manager on the decline when we took him opposed to Guus who was a raising star - Thus Bert went on to manage UAE and thats about it opposed to Guus who went to Chelsea.... 

I do agree he didnt really have the players in the 2018 WC but Denmark where are no power house and Peru (tho were good) shouldnt of spanked us...It is a results business football, and 1 point in 3 games isnt good enough - how many WC have we gone out saying ' we played well' and 'showed heart' etc - playing well and showing heart means f**k all the only successful campaign we had was under Guus, I do agree Pim was unlucky with the red so i kind of feel 4 him there he was a bit hard done by but that is football. - In the world cup you dont play sides like Indonesia and Thailand you play teams that got to the WC on merit esp the European and South American sides. If you dont go in with the aim for putting in a challenge then wtf are we going to the WC for? 




these Kangaroos can play football - 
Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017) 

KEEP POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL

Edited
4 Years Ago by Davstar
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ErogenousZone - 6 Aug 2020 8:28 AM
I liked Pim. He knew how to get through a gruelling Asian qualifying process with a limited quality squad.  Copped an unnecessary amount of shit from people who couldn't see the bigger picture of what he was doing.  



Bang on the money, EZ!

We had an immature football media  in Aus passing naive judgement who had never seen a proper home and away WCQ campaign over a few years in past eras .
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johnszasz - 6 Aug 2020 9:17 AM
ErogenousZone - 6 Aug 2020 8:28 AM

I feel Pim still had a big chunk of the Golden Generation to get him by. I think he dealt with Asia immensely well. It was a combination of a decent team, good preparation and a poorer opposition compared to the present day. 

Bert certainly settled our defence more.

Totally agree.
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LFC. - 6 Aug 2020 10:10 AM

I did admire his honesty in what he thought about local players at the time, facts are facts and people hurt hearing something as such.


Sadly, Pim never meant this to be publicised.

 Pim had an informal cup of coffee off the record with a journo where everything was supposed to be a  private conversation , and, it was made public!

Never trust a journalist!
Edited
4 Years Ago by Decentric
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ah yes thats right.
Press two faces, in the end I'm still glad it got out.

Davstar, agree with your response to D.


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I respect ALL the coaches- even Holger- who made the brilliant sub of Cahill for Kennedy in the 2nd half against a tough Iraq side to score and get into the 2014 Wcup. 
But biggest legacy was left by Guus who set the bar much higher for what Socceroos squads can achieve. Ever since, players and fans expect ‘more’ from our players and as a result have won an ACup and have at least qualified for all Wcups since 2006. 
And until our NT reaches at least the 2nd round of another WCup, nobody will be even close to satisfied with our efforts because Guus proved what potential there is in Aussie talent
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It would be interesting to see which other countries have qualified for the World Cup  besides  Australia in 2006, 2010, 2014 and 2018?

I'm surmising:

*Europe
Germany
France 
Portugal
Spain
Croatia?
England?

*Asia
Australia
South Korea 
Japan
Iran?

* CONCCAFF
Mexico

*Africa
Ivory Coast?

*Oceania
No team.


Not many football coaches  have coached, and overseen  2 year qualifying campaigns, at World Cups.
Edited
4 Years Ago by Decentric
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Decentric - 7 Aug 2020 5:46 PM
It would be interesting to see which other countries have qualified for the World Cup  besides  Australia in 2006, 2010, 2014 and 2018?

I'm surmising:

*Europe
Germany
Holland
Italy
France 
Portugal
Spain
Croatia?
England?

*Asia
Australia
South Korea 
Japan
Iran?

* CONCCAFF
Mexico

*Africa
Ivory Coast?

*Oceania
No team.

Italy

Lol


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scott20won - 7 Aug 2020 5:48 PM
Decentric - 7 Aug 2020 5:46 PM

Italy

Lol


Did  Italy miss out on one, or was it a Euro Champs?
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Decentric - 7 Aug 2020 5:50 PM
scott20won - 7 Aug 2020 5:48 PM

Did  Italy miss out on one, or was it a Euro Champs?

Italy missed 2018 Wcup
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Balin Trev - 7 Aug 2020 5:57 PM
Decentric - 7 Aug 2020 5:50 PM

Italy missed 2018 Wcup

Holland missed 2018 too
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Balin Trev - 7 Aug 2020 5:57 PM
Decentric - 7 Aug 2020 5:50 PM

Italy missed 2018 Wcup

Ta.

So many comps, it is difficult to remember who qualified for what!

The point I'm making is it is difficult to qualify for World Cups on a consistent basis  - and not many countries do it.

All our coaches deserve some sort of accolades for Australia qualifying  for four WCs in succession.
Edited
4 Years Ago by Decentric
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Balin Trev - 7 Aug 2020 6:11 PM
Balin Trev - 7 Aug 2020 5:57 PM

Holland missed 2018 too

I thought it was  a Euro Champs?

Thanks though for correcting me, BT.

It was a catastrophe for  Holland.  Rather than many other nations borrowing on Holland's football methodology because  of their sustained  success, the Dutch KNVB  visited Germany and Belgiums straight after the 2018 WC debacle to do the same.

Previously they had both imported methodology from Holland in  the early 2000s, to learn from them. Holland  have recently imported French   methodology as well.

There are two distinct  schools of Dutch  KNVB methodology.

 Cruyff ( where individual skill is paramount) and Van Gaal ( where  team tactics and cohesion are paramount). Van Gaal has had far more success as a coach according to the books I've read on the subject.

In Australia we've borrowed heavily on the Van Gaal school, where the team is paramount. Australia now has very good tactical players well in advance of their technical qualities. Even when Shinji Ono played in the HAL, he said it was far more advanced, tactically, than the J League. 

Powerhouses Italy and Holland  (and the USA in a weak confederation) all failing to qualify for Russia 2018 was astonishing.

Again us qualifying for four WCs in a row, is pretty  good  for a non-football nation.  Aus is the only  nation  to do so, where football isn't the first or second most popular sport in the last four World Cups.
Edited
4 Years Ago by Decentric
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Decentric - 8 Aug 2020 9:18 AM
Balin Trev - 7 Aug 2020 5:57 PM

Ta.

So many comps, it is difficult to remember who qualified for what!

The point I'm making is it is difficult to qualify for World Cups on a consistent basis  - and not many countries do it.

All our coaches deserve some sort of accolades for Australia qualifying  for four WCs in succession.

While I don’t think it was your intention, if that was meant to troll Italian fans by forcing it to be mentioned again, well played.
Edited
4 Years Ago by Aljay
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Aljay - 8 Aug 2020 9:57 AM
Decentric - 8 Aug 2020 9:18 AM

While I don’t think it was your intention, if that was meant to troll Italian fans by forcing it to be mentioned again, well played.

No way would I troll Italian fans, Aljay!

I'm a huge admirer of Italian football! I love their ability to play peerless counterattacking football and their  sophisticated tactics. 

We visited Italy recently.  I love  the country and  the people.
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The hiatus that has been forced on the national teams has taken the focus away from our current set up. Unfortunately it may mean we have Arnold for longer than otherwise we may. To me he's done exceedingly well as a club coach. I don't think he's got the makeup of being a top international coach. The things he said during the Asian Cup were not a good look. He talked big, but didn't deliver. Ended with barely a pass mark. He talked big again in the Olympic qualifiers, and got through as the third best team. Again, barely a pass mark.
I suspect that Popovic would end up as our best home grown international level coach of the current crop. I hope he gets his chance.
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Footballking55 - 8 Aug 2020 2:29 PM
The hiatus that has been forced on the national teams has taken the focus away from our current set up. Unfortunately it may mean we have Arnold for longer than otherwise we may. To me he's done exceedingly well as a club coach. I don't think he's got the makeup of being a top international coach. The things he said during the Asian Cup were not a good look. He talked big, but didn't deliver. Ended with barely a pass mark. He talked big again in the Olympic qualifiers, and got through as the third best team. Again, barely a pass mark.
I suspect that Popovic would end up as our best home grown international level coach of the current crop. I hope he gets his chance.

I think Arnie has the attributes to be a  very successful  international coach, FK55.

His big problem is to stop boasting before games and  tournaments about how the Socceroos will dominate the opposition. He gives opposition teams motivation to try even harder against us. He needs to be a lot more respectful to the opposition, like Pim, Bert or Ange.

At one stage I was dark on  Arnie , because he claimed we needed to continue with the policy of selecting football athletes for underage teams like pre 2005, as opposed to technicians.

Recently though he has said the technical skill of underage national team players exceeds anything he has seen before in any era in Aus. I think if Arnie  could learn  to shut his mouth, and pay respect to  the opposition, he can become one of our greatest coaches. Poignantly, he sees the link between underage national teams and the national senior team. He his fast tracking capable young  players.

Matt Ryan said Arnie is one the few coaches he has played under at  club and international level, who is both a good man manager and tactician.  Ryan claims most other coaches are one or the other.
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Footballking55 - 8 Aug 2020 2:29 PM
 He talked big again in the Olympic qualifiers, and got through as the third best team. Again, barely a pass mark.





We just qualified , but we had decent opposition.

I despise his talking big, like an arrogant Aussie, disrespecting the opposition .
LFC.
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Decentric - 8 Aug 2020 9:28 AM
Balin Trev - 7 Aug 2020 6:11 PM

I thought it was  a Euro Champs?

Thanks though for correcting me, BT.

It was a catastrophe for  Holland.  Rather than many other nations borrowing on Holland's football methodology because  of their sustained  success, the Dutch KNVB  visited Germany and Belgiums straight after the 2018 WC debacle to do the same.

Previously they had both imported methodology from Holland in  the early 2000s, to learn from them. Holland  have recently imported French   methodology as well.

There are two distinct  schools of Dutch  KNVB methodology.

 Cruyff ( where individual skill is paramount) and Van Gaal ( where  team tactics and cohesion are paramount). Van Gaal has had far more success as a coach according to the books I've read on the subject.

In Australia we've borrowed heavily on the Van Gaal school, where the team is paramount. Australia now has very good tactical players well in advance of their technical qualities. Even when Shinji Ono played in the HAL, he said it was far more advanced, tactically, than the J League. 

Powerhouses Italy and Holland  (and the USA in a weak confederation) all failing to qualify for Russia 2018 was astonishing.

Again us qualifying for four WCs in a row, is pretty  good  for a non-football nation.  Aus is the only  nation  to do so, where football isn't the first or second most popular sport in the last four World Cups.

yes we don't sit back much and consider thats not too bad considering our own constant challenges at home for our players here and abroad and the cluster F with our governing body over all these years.
Were harsh critics due to our passion and will to deliver.
You'd only wish to be in Guus's position out of them all, he had a squad capable to do something with some luck as you always need in games whereas the the rest have ground it out pretty hard - the last taking the longest route to qualify.
Sitting on the couch is bad enough heart attack material, imagine what goes through their minds and hearts in games.
Ange/Brazil was killing me the most I don't blame him one bit finally deciding enough is enough its a damn hard gig.



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