General Ashnak
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I wish people would get over the supposed benefit that marquees provided. Even the USA has realised that consistently growing support is how you develop the league rather than individual high value players. The marquee/designated player is meant to be the cherry on top and not the sole method of development.
The thing about football - the important thing about football - is its not just about football. - Sir Terry Pratchett in Unseen Academicals For pro/rel in Australia across the entire pyramid, the removal of artificial impediments to the development of the game and its players. On sabbatical Youth Coach and formerly part of The Cove FC
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JonoMV
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Because the A League is a minor league in this country. Our best seasons with eyeballs on the league werre when we had marquees that would put bums on seats and good active support. Now we got neither, and i doubt we will be able to get decent marquees again.
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Davstar
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+xIt was a very respectable and relatively popular league with a decent slice of the summer pie and then S Lowy and Gallop went to war with its own fans. The game has never recovered since. Ill give you that WSW introduction with Popa in charge we were looking decent for a while But we are talking about the whole 15 years of the AL not just periods where it looked like it had a spark that could become a fire.
these Kangaroos can play football - Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017)
KEEP POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL
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bettega
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I agree Allsvenskan is a good benchmark for us. They have some advantages but their population is one third of ours and they have strong competition from other sports as well. That's a pretty lucrative TV deal they have managed to put together (I guess it's only marginally higher than what our was before it was halved). We should really be aiming for the same sort of dollars.
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aussie pride
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It was a very respectable and relatively popular league with a decent slice of the summer pie and then S Lowy and Gallop went to war with its own fans.
The game has never recovered since.
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Davstar
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Football is popular the AL on the other hand... The A-league isn't popular let be honest becuz from day one it was shit - 70-80% football fans said it at the time - the structure, the quality on the park, the jokes of marquees, lack of P/R, plastic feel of the clubs etc - From personally experience im a MVFC fan but all my friends that watch football Serie A/EPL have Zero interest in the AL becuz they dont respect it. Even though the quality has got better it always has have this unshakable notion it is a 'shit' league - regardless of it improving it wont shake off this tag of being a shit product for the majority of football fans in this country becuz it has so many inferior features compared to overseas leagues. It doesnt help that the Socceroos are shit and the AL isnt producing talent that is marketable for the sport like basketball has atm with Simon etc. If the AL was producing players playing in top leagues, playing UCL it would win back some favor but you see A-L players (or former AL) playing for Socceroos and they are getting done by teams like UAE - no one respects the league or the national team becuz it isnt preforming Sport is a 'results' based industry football has huge potential but the AL is dead imo I'd scrap the AL and start again becuz it will always been seen as a dud i've said it before it is the FFA who is to blame Lowry, Gallop etc f**ked football with the dumbest model possible that is so far away from what a football league should look like that most actual football fans are turned off the sport. Even at its worst the NSL was better then what we have now ill stand by that and i didnt like the NLS but i love the national team - regardless of not making world cups we actually always had some top talent in the starting XI - those players were developed via the NSL system so i at least respected it and so did many others. I cant say the same for the AL.
these Kangaroos can play football - Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017)
KEEP POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL
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Davstar
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+xProfessional football is popular in Australia. We’ve just made some poor assumptions and decisions over the last 50 years. Over the last 15 years we thought a professional league based on Australian sporting culture would do it. In fact we promised the owners riches beyond compare, setting a policy course that doesn’t meet our expectations nor the expectations of those who invested in the League. We thought marquees would be a game changer. We thought if only there was less or no ethnic clubs then the Australian masses would see less of an impediment to crossing over to the beautiful game. They thought getting rid of active support, seen as rowdy and symbolic of the ethnic Football days as the way to attract the threatre goer. We thought World Cup qualification would be the game changer and everyone would just hop over to the true football. We think winning a World Cup will do the trick without any thought or consideration in what is needed to achieve that. The owners brought over Scudamore to tell them how to make the game more popular, but didn’t like what they were told. The journey to what we want for the game here is a long one. And we’ve lost a lot of time, sidetracked by distractions of grandeur. We have to be more Club focused, Clubs are the engine of the game the World over, they are the marquee. Great players have come and gone through Real Madrid, but people support Real Madrid not the galaxy of stars that have passed through. To win a World Cup our players need to be playing and dominating in the top 5 leagues of Europe. With the top 5 clubs in those leagues. To get those players to those clubs and leagues we have to have a vibrant and competitive league here, that includes transfer fees, promotion Relegation, a connected pyramid, diverse and innovative player development especially at the youngest ages (I’m talking ages 4 to 12), parental education on how they can best help the kids get the skills they need just to enjoy the game. We have to come to the realization that not every kid is elite, but if they stay in the game taught to love it they will be the next administrator or sponser or coach etc. we have to stop saying, AL you are the professional clubs, NPL you are the development clubs, Community you are for the masses. Telling Clubs this is your territory, and the people in this territory belong to you. Clubs siloed into a specific roles is like creating an East German sports model without the drugs. Even those clamoring for age restrictions on clubs In competition don’t get it, just playing youth in the AL NPL or wherever isn’t the game changer people think if the kids aren’t good enough they’re not good enough. And we can’t have arbitrary player payments regulations, Licensing conditions etc etc that don’t reflect the financial capacity and level of the game. We have to have more of an organic approach and that takes time. Like the Japanese who have a 100 year plan. So my point we need to accept we are in the long game, there is no silver bullet, there is not one thing we can do that will change our circumstances, but there are many small things we can do and build on. In particular we need to equal regulations for all Clubs within a free market framework. Could write a lot more on this but I think I’ve put my view across. I agree thought no one thought marquees where going to save the league - 90% of the marquees where crap - other then Fowler/York/ADP non of the other 'marquees' were really marquees
these Kangaroos can play football - Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017)
KEEP POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL
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Davstar
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Also know as real football fans who have common sense and like the sport.
these Kangaroos can play football - Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017)
KEEP POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL
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SpongeBobFC
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Sweden has a similar football involvement population as us and the Allsvenskan averages around the high 9k with 16 teams Their kids like ours grow up idolizing the premier league and it's stars and use the Allsvenskan as a platform to get into better leagues. Eurosport Sweden, an arm of the Discovery Communications-owned pan-European sports broadcaster, has concluded an exclusive deal to show Swedish soccer’s top-tier Allsvenskan starting in 2020. The deal also includes exclusive coverage on Eurosport of Swedish soccer’s second-tier Superettan. The deal is reported to be worth SKr540 million ($61.5 million) per season, around double the present outlay from TV4 and C More.(about 85 mil AUD)
Sweden's 3 biggest clubs have facebook likes similar or below Australia's 3 biggest clubs which is some indication of engagement.
WSW and Sydney being homeless hasn't helped and WSW and Victory being basket cases also has an effect. I think the A-League goes ok but if the FFA spent less time the last 10 yrs trying to woo the mainstream and more effort in catering to the existing football population then i don't think we would have the rot we have now.
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bettega
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Further to the above, this is where the A-League stands, in terms of attendances, with comparable leagues world wide: Eredivisie | Association football | Netherlands | 1 | 2018–19 | 18 | 306 | 5,496,857 | 17,964 | [35] | Russian Premier League (RPL) | Association football | Russia | 1 | 2018–19 | 16 | 240 | 4,032,184 | 16,801 | [36] | Scottish Premiership | Association football | United Kingdom | 1 | 2018–19 | 12 | 198 | 3,171,149 | 16,016 | [37] | National Rugby League (NRL) | Rugby league | Australia
New Zealand | 1 | 2019 | 16 | 201 | 3,175,871[38] | 15,800 | [39] | Championnat de France de rugby à XV (Top 14) | Rugby union | France | 1 | 2018–19 | 14 | 187 | 2,734,738 | 14,624 | | Premiership Rugby | Rugby union | United Kingdom | 1 | 2018–19 | 12 | 135 | 1,958,402 | 14,507 | [40] | Super Rugby | Rugby union | New Zealand
South Africa
Australia
Argentina
Japan | International clubs competition | 2017 | 18 | 142 | 2,049,912 | 14,436 | [41] | Indian Super League (ISL) | Association football | India | 1 | 2018–19 | 10 | 81 | 1,049,674 | 12,959 | [42] | Pakistan Super League | Twenty20 Cricket | Pakistan | 1 | 2018 | 6 | 34[31] | 398,765 | 11,728 | 1 | Primeira Liga | Association football | Portugal | 1 | 2018–19 | 18 | 306 | 3,561,484 | 11,639 | [43] | Swiss Super League | Association football | Switzerland | 1 | 2018–19 | 10 | 180 | 2,018,707 | 11,278 | [44] | Currie Cup Premier Division | Rugby union | South Africa | 1 | 2014 | 8 | 43 | 478,392[45] | 11,125 | [46] | Belgian First Division A | Association football | Belgium | 1 | 2018–19 | 16 | 240 | 2,580,516 | 10,752 | [47] | Speedway Ekstraliga | Motorcycle speedway | Poland | 1 | 2018 | 8 | 62 | 650,069 | 10,484 | [48] | A-League | Association football | Australia
New Zealand | 1 | 2018–19 | 10 | 135 | 1,407,151 | 10,423 | [49] | Campeonato Nacional de Liga de Segunda División (La Liga 2) | Association football | Spain | 2 | 2018–19 | 22 | 462 | 4,583,763 | 10,418 | [50] | I-League | Association football | India | 2 | 2017-18 | 10 | 90 | 832,665 | 10,280 | [51] | KBO League | Baseball | South Korea | 1 | 2019 | 10 | 720 | 7,286,008 | 10,119 | [52][54] | Turkish Super League | Association football | Turkey | 1 | 2016–17 | 18 | 306 | 2,531,639 | 9,700 | [55] | Mexican Pacific League | Baseball | Mexico | 1 | 2019–20 | 10 | 333 | 3,170,417[56] | 9,521 | [13] | Ekstraklasa | Association football | Poland | 1 | 2017–18 | 16 | 296 | 2,802,483 | 9,468 | [57][58] | Liga 1 | Association football | Indonesia | 1 | 2019 | 18 | 306 | 2,863,876 | 9,359 | | China League One | Association football | People's Republic of China | 2 | 2019 | 16 | 240 | 2,199,279 | 9,202 | [59] | Allsvenskan | Association football | Sweden | 1 | 2019 | 16 | 240 | 2,198,794 | 9,162 |
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bettega
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+xDefine popular? We were averaging 10k for years, there is nothing wrong with that. You're right, there's is nothing really wrong with averaging 10k across the first 15 seasons of the A-League (maybe even a bit above that). If the league can continue with those numbers, there is nothing wrong with that. What is a problem is getting ratings which are large as the number of people in the stadium - that's a real problem, because it affects both broadcast revenue and sponsorship.
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thekingmb
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+x+xDefine popular? We were averaging 10k for years, there is nothing wrong with that. In my opinion what makes a sport ‘popular ‘ is that it is immediately identifiable by the average ‘joe blow’. When the A-league, the Socceroos or the Matildas are mentioned it’s ‘blank looks’ by the majority of the populace. Whereas cricketers, ‘footy’ players of any of the other codes even tennis players are instantly recognised. Perhaps it is down to a lack of publicity ( must admit even my wife knows who Tim Cahill is and she has zero interest in football). The Aleague is probably at the level somewhere in between league 1 and 2. The amount of publicity those leagues get locally in comparison to the A-League is probably the same. The cricketers, footy players and tennis players are the pinnacle of those sports so its no surprise the average joe is familiar with them. When Del Piero came, everybody took notice. Go to Japan and Korea, baseball is the national sport and everybody knows who they are. Football is 2nd in those countries so it isn't that bad. Unfortunately in this country, we have much more competition. I shall re-iterate, the A-league was going fine, until the clowns pissed of the fans. Expansion was slowly, but surely, on the horizon.
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libelous
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+xDefine popular? We were averaging 10k for years, there is nothing wrong with that. In my opinion what makes a sport ‘popular ‘ is that it is immediately identifiable by the average ‘joe blow’. When the A-league, the Socceroos or the Matildas are mentioned it’s ‘blank looks’ by the majority of the populace. Whereas cricketers, ‘footy’ players of any of the other codes even tennis players are instantly recognised. Perhaps it is down to a lack of publicity ( must admit even my wife knows who Tim Cahill is and she has zero interest in football).
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thekingmb
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Define popular? We were averaging 10k for years, there is nothing wrong with that.
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CanberraHarry
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+x+xThe irony of multiculturalism and diversity being seen as a positive in every aspect of Australian life except mens football is not lost on me. In most other cultural and social areas ‘the ethnics’ are celebrated but in football we have actively shunned them. Bizarre and backward thinking. And out of step with modern Australia. But it’s not irretrievable. But we happy to taste the food though! Funny country. Well exactly, because the foreign food beats the potatoes and steak I was raised on, easily. But so does football influenced by Greeks, Italians, Croatians, Serbs and Germans. Oh well, we are a bloody weird mob.
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AJF
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+x+xConstructive observations, especially from clockwork orange. I agree, no silver bullet sadly. It’s a slow road back. Let’s get to 14 or maybe 16 teams quickly then put a five year plan in place for a second division pro/rel. Aim for this to all be in place by 2030, with public commitments and milestones. I really want some old surviving NSL clubs back in the mix. What a club like South Melbourne would do, notwithstanding the counter arguments, would be awesome and very symbolic. A brilliant gesture to the old guard but also there are commercial opportunities to be exploited. South Melbourne has had three bites at it (entering the A-League), and at least for the 2nd and 3rd tries, missed out to inferior bids. Damage done I'd say. the fact that spots in the top league are decided based on how glossy your bid is versus being earnt through on field performance says it all. In setting up the Al, a honeymoon with no p/r is understandable, but the overarching strategy of protecting the owners investment has basically killed the league for me. there is no ambition amongst many of the clubs and with no consequences there is no incentive to actually try. Reddy juggling the ball un-challenged before half time last season sums up situation with AL perfectly, it is a meaningless competition and when the players themselves dont take it seriously, why would anyone expect the football public to.
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Barca4Life
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+xThe irony of multiculturalism and diversity being seen as a positive in every aspect of Australian life except mens football is not lost on me. In most other cultural and social areas ‘the ethnics’ are celebrated but in football we have actively shunned them. Bizarre and backward thinking. And out of step with modern Australia. But it’s not irretrievable. But we happy to taste the food though! Funny country.
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jas88
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they spent more time and money on Cahill than promoting the league.
Kids need stars/idols to get behind... we have none.
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CanberraHarry
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The irony of multiculturalism and diversity being seen as a positive in every aspect of Australian life except mens football is not lost on me. In most other cultural and social areas ‘the ethnics’ are celebrated but in football we have actively shunned them. Bizarre and backward thinking. And out of step with modern Australia. But it’s not irretrievable.
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someguyjc
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+xI love how people are turning this thread in to an “A-League is not popular” thread.
The NSL was NOT popular!
The A-League is 3-4x more popular than the NSL, but still dwarfed by the three major codes.
So whether it’s NSL or HAL - professional football is not popular. Why?
To answer that question it would require undertaking some actual analysis and critical thinking. And we all know there can't be any of that nonsense. We can't turn the microscope on ourselves. We can only look at external issues of which we have no control over.
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tsf
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Because its progress and development has constantly being restrained by self-serving, chip on the shoulder, utter fuckwits on every side of the fence.
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bettega
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+xConstructive observations, especially from clockwork orange. I agree, no silver bullet sadly. It’s a slow road back. Let’s get to 14 or maybe 16 teams quickly then put a five year plan in place for a second division pro/rel. Aim for this to all be in place by 2030, with public commitments and milestones. I really want some old surviving NSL clubs back in the mix. What a club like South Melbourne would do, notwithstanding the counter arguments, would be awesome and very symbolic. A brilliant gesture to the old guard but also there are commercial opportunities to be exploited. South Melbourne has had three bites at it (entering the A-League), and at least for the 2nd and 3rd tries, missed out to inferior bids. Damage done I'd say.
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CanberraHarry
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Constructive observations, especially from clockwork orange. I agree, no silver bullet sadly. It’s a slow road back. Let’s get to 14 or maybe 16 teams quickly then put a five year plan in place for a second division pro/rel. Aim for this to all be in place by 2030, with public commitments and milestones. I really want some old surviving NSL clubs back in the mix. What a club like South Melbourne would do, notwithstanding the counter arguments, would be awesome and very symbolic. A brilliant gesture to the old guard but also there are commercial opportunities to be exploited.
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Feed_The_Brox
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one word... Eurosnobs.
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Waz
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I love how people are turning this thread in to an “A-League is not popular” thread.
The NSL was NOT popular!
The A-League is 3-4x more popular than the NSL, but still dwarfed by the three major codes.
So whether it’s NSL or HAL - professional football is not popular. Why?
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robbos
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+xThe ALeague is a story of 2 missed opportunities. The first 2 seasons of the A-league combined with the 2006 WC success was the first squandered opportunity. Instead of building on this success immediately, the decision was made to do nothing to expand the game. Bugger all investment in the following seasons and the game went nowhere. The next big opportunity was the season when Wanderers joined and we had Ono, ADP and Heskey in the league. Genuine football fans were again enthused, but the FFA decided to go to war with the active fans because they thought that attracting Big Bash and AFL followers was more important. Since then it’s just gradually fizzled. The ongoing determination to keep the Efniks out has ensured that the football community has never been allowed to unite. Exactly cannot agree more. Football has too many people with agendas & not always for the good of the game. The misconception that football is NOT big in this country, we should have been appealing to football fans, the passion the football fans have was totally missed by the Suits.
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scott20won
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“I played for the biggest club [in the Netherlands], so you think clubs will see you easily. But my career went half good and half/half… “People say New Zealand, Australia are not so good. But to be fair, it made me into the player I am today. “In Holland, you learn to play with the ball and you have it a lot. “But in Australia, you need to fight and become a man. My skills are there, but in Holland you lack the fighting part of the game. “It helped me quite a lot.”
https://sport360.com/article/football/arabian-gulf-league/344707/if-you-saw-luis-suarez-in-training-he-wouldnt-do-a-lot-but-in-a-game-he-went-2000-per-cent
too macho for the refined Eurosnobs?
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Midfielder
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+xThe ALeague is a story of 2 missed opportunities. The first 2 seasons of the A-league combined with the 2006 WC success was the first squandered opportunity. Instead of building on this success immediately, the decision was made to do nothing to expand the game. Bugger all investment in the following seasons and the game went nowhere. The next big opportunity was the season when Wanderers joined and we had Ono, ADP and Heskey in the league. Genuine football fans were again enthused, but the FFA decided to go to war with the active fans because they thought that attracting Big Bash and AFL followers was more important. Since then it’s just gradually fizzled. The ongoing determination to keep the Efniks out has ensured that the football community has never been allowed to unite. astute observations and I 100% agree with what you say ... I would add a third to your list the gamble to go after the world cup and direct revenue and management time and political and media favours while ignoring the A-L... Having said that and I agree I think its deeper than just a couple of things..
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johnszasz
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+xThe ALeague is a story of 2 missed opportunities. The first 2 seasons of the A-league combined with the 2006 WC success was the first squandered opportunity. Instead of building on this success immediately, the decision was made to do nothing to expand the game. Bugger all investment in the following seasons and the game went nowhere. The next big opportunity was the season when Wanderers joined and we had Ono, ADP and Heskey in the league. Genuine football fans were again enthused, but the FFA decided to go to war with the active fans because they thought that attracting Big Bash and AFL followers was more important. Since then it’s just gradually fizzled. The ongoing determination to keep the Efniks out has ensured that the football community has never been allowed to unite. I recall the time where active support was awesome across the league. That was at the time that the Marinators had already broken up but good performances and championships kept them coming. I recall Mariners games of 2008-2012 just being unimaginable now. Sydney derby was top. Melbourne had a very decent derby. Newcastle had travelling fans and Brisbane were playing beautifully. Such a disappointment it all crashed down.
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Barca4Life
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+xProfessional football is popular in Australia. We’ve just made some poor assumptions and decisions over the last 50 years. Over the last 15 years we thought a professional league based on Australian sporting culture would do it. In fact we promised the owners riches beyond compare, setting a policy course that doesn’t meet our expectations nor the expectations of those who invested in the League. We thought marquees would be a game changer. We thought if only there was less or no ethnic clubs then the Australian masses would see less of an impediment to crossing over to the beautiful game. They thought getting rid of active support, seen as rowdy and symbolic of the ethnic Football days as the way to attract the threatre goer. We thought World Cup qualification would be the game changer and everyone would just hop over to the true football. We think winning a World Cup will do the trick without any thought or consideration in what is needed to achieve that. The owners brought over Scudamore to tell them how to make the game more popular, but didn’t like what they were told. The journey to what we want for the game here is a long one. And we’ve lost a lot of time, sidetracked by distractions of grandeur. We have to be more Club focused, Clubs are the engine of the game the World over, they are the marquee. Great players have come and gone through Real Madrid, but people support Real Madrid not the galaxy of stars that have passed through. To win a World Cup our players need to be playing and dominating in the top 5 leagues of Europe. With the top 5 clubs in those leagues. To get those players to those clubs and leagues we have to have a vibrant and competitive league here, that includes transfer fees, promotion Relegation, a connected pyramid, diverse and innovative player development especially at the youngest ages (I’m talking ages 4 to 12), parental education on how they can best help the kids get the skills they need just to enjoy the game. We have to come to the realization that not every kid is elite, but if they stay in the game taught to love it they will be the next administrator or sponser or coach etc. we have to stop saying, AL you are the professional clubs, NPL you are the development clubs, Community you are for the masses. Telling Clubs this is your territory, and the people in this territory belong to you. Clubs siloed into a specific roles is like creating an East German sports model without the drugs. Even those clamoring for age restrictions on clubs In competition don’t get it, just playing youth in the AL NPL or wherever isn’t the game changer people think if the kids aren’t good enough they’re not good enough. And we can’t have arbitrary player payments regulations, Licensing conditions etc etc that don’t reflect the financial capacity and level of the game. We have to have more of an organic approach and that takes time. Like the Japanese who have a 100 year plan. So my point we need to accept we are in the long game, there is no silver bullet, there is not one thing we can do that will change our circumstances, but there are many small things we can do and build on. In particular we need to equal regulations for all Clubs within a free market framework. Could write a lot more on this but I think I’ve put my view across. Very well said Arthur, that makes too much sense for the non believers.
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