Man if only the a league got 1/4 of the love the Matildas are getting.

Forget AFL and nrl we need to keep these fans that are showing up.

Right now we're like the nerdy kid with the new iPhone everyone wants to be our friend but we all know how that ends.

Hopefully apl can keep the momentum going this time 

Matilda's have genuinely world class players in their team all plying their trade in Tier 1 of European football. 

IF the A-league started to produce the same kind of player, relative to the level of the Matilda's, then the A-league would be HUGE. 

Sam Kerr is not only a footballer, but judging by the screams from the stands when she came on last night, she's a bonafide celebrity/poster-girl of Aussie Women's Football. 

But Kerr played in the A-league w for ages. It didn't bring huge crowds in, other players like Kyra was great to watch coming through not too long ago. The interest still wasn't there. People seem to only care once they go overseas to the big clubs or are playing for the Matildas. 

The ‘cultural cringe’ , it’s always been there and probably always will be.

But nobody will know how good the a league w players if they don't watch.

70 odd thousand people last night dont know and dont care how good the players are or how they played mate..... 

They were there to support their idols and their country... Ask most of the girls losing their minds when Kerr was brought on who the other 10 players on the pitch are and most will struggle to answer. Its not a criticism it just reality... The Wleague needs to take a leaf out of what the Asian and Euro womens comps are now doing and expand. Play a full h/a season. create a national cup competition ike the men's and follow up on creating a womens NSD as soon as possible... Give the thousands upon thousands of girls now playing the game a pathway to both play and support and they will thrive... 

This Popularity is 'always' there it is called the Premier league, WC and UCL.

The WWC is the for the most part the very best of women's football - people want to see the top end of the spear.

thus, people love football in Australia but they want to watch the top levels of the game. 

The AL gets more hype from players like Koal heading to Newcastle Utd then the AL finals series. Becuz people want us to be successful you want to see Australians playing in the PL, Series A, La Liga and UCL etc.

The easiest example I give is everyone wants to see/drive a Ferrari which is the top levels of football. The AL is like a Camry it is still a car but far less exicting, also the AL has shot itself in the head with being overly PC, anti active support, stale structure and way to sterile - it is for the most part 'boring' to follow. - It has done everything BUT focus on the game itself football WHICH is the pollar opposite of something like a world cup which is 100% about football - for all the moaning from PC wankers b4 Qatar soon as the tornament started NO wanted politics in the game they just cared about the matches being played. It is what the FA fail to understand football is the product not whatever bullshit agenda is in the media. 

I do watch the AL becuz in general im a fan of the sport but i hate the strcuture of the AL and almost everything it has 'become' - i do not attend games anymore as i personally think the atmosphere is not what is used to be and the league itself is un-interesting. The league for too long has ignored the shit structure in favor of 'short term' money. Until it has P/R and removes most of the squad restrictions i cannot see the AL ever being 'very' popular. 

The numbers do not lie, most people think the way i do or or a similar vien it is why you get 20k people to fed squad to watch a match on a screen but cant get 20k people to fill a stadium for clubs that have exsited almost 2 decades 

Football is incredbly popular in Australia but domestic league isnt and we should NEVER mix those two things up - becuz the structure, on the pitch quality, money and focus of the domestic league is so far from what top professional football is, you simply cannot call the AL a 'professional' football league with a straight face 

Don't worry, someone in football community is no doubt putting some bullets in the chamber, preparing to shoot ourselves in the foot

Players should publicaly tweet asking for funding - shame the politicians into giving more to the game

Given the players mostly started their journey back then in the w-league (now a-league women's) its a perfect marketing tool to explain that the league is where Matildas stars are made.

But I dont trust the APL especially how they handled the grand final decision straight after the Socceroos great run at the World Cup when they builded such large momentum.
Lets see if they learned their lessons from that.

The FA needs to go to the Federal/State governments NOW and demand 10x fund for 'grass' roots of the game - it should be almost Free for Boys and Girls to play the game and follow in the foot steps of their Nation Team Heroes. 

The dream for Aussie kids should be to play in a world cup not become some Rugby/AFL Wife/GF beater and be player addicted to Ketamine/Coke 

Fine example of the 'national sport' 

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/well-continue-to-support-tarryn-roos-stand-firm-amid-damning-alleged-texts/news-story/a4e9f529ccde0b531d705c2054a7f2c3

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/afl/article-10908475/Bailey-Smith-tell-AFL-snorting-cocaine-video-accept-ban.html

I'm really bored of the AFL/nrl comparisons I believe there is room for all three sports to be thriving 

There isn't...... 

We have 26m people 

Add in Aus Open, Netball, Union, cricket and Formula 1....even add the rise in popularity of Basketball 

There simply isnt enough money to go around.....

Football has 1 big advantage which we have not really used since the AL was created and it can 'sell players' for massive money but due to the Cap clubs are hamstrung into crap fees 

The sooner people realise professional level sport is a business the better we will be....

Why do you think the AFL/NRL are constently lobbying for more funding at grass roots to get more and more kids into their sport 

In order to be a developing nation that receives HUGE payouts for developing players, it needs to attract the best junior athletes in the first place. Fees are probably the #1 hurdle to overcome in that context, but I don't want to open this can of worms again. 

Hahahaha but Cevapi and Souvlaki are TWO separate, yet both delicious, things :P lol.

I agree the fees to be lowed if not free is very important but the pathways are also important too especially that the demand for playing football from both female and even males will go up so they need to refined.

I also think its a great opportunity to educated the masses about the skills of the game especially at grassroots level, education is equalling as important as getting more kids playing football in my opinion especially to mums and dads who are might want their kids to get into the game for potentially the first time.
And get more futsal, 5v5 courts built around all over the country as future stars will be inspired to become the next Kerr, Foord etc but there is so many ways to build on this wonderful legacy these girls are doing for the country. 

Its up the powers at be to bottle this up and make the most of it! 

My hope is APL learns how to connect to the player base... the sadness I feel as no management team in over 70 years has connected to the player base.... I hope but doubt APL uses the WC in mid season to connect to the player base not try and leverage benefits off the player base which goes down poorly...

Mid, I hope APL do nothing to capitilise from the WWC momentum and in any case they will surely screw it up if so.
Its not all about the APLW but whats massive underneath.
As you posted in the MLS thread the USL see themselves being irrelevant in the future due to the system and we have it in a small scale compared to them but still totally a barrier for the leagues below.
This isn't good at all, hope someone, let alone JJ/FA WTFU cut the loss's put a knife through it all - we are on the wrong path.

Most watched show of 2023

Out rated every NRL GF and origin since 2016 

And out rated 4 of the last 6 afl GFs

8.30 on a monday too....

I think the final figure will smash all records, if you add regional Australia plus streaming plus 7plus aps, plus Optus, plus youtube the final figure will be well over 5 million...

In the last game  capital city rating were 1.5 million and the final total was 4.7 million, if that follows it will approach 7 million... 

Thats bonkers...... absolute bonkers......  if we make the final and get a public holiday it will be 'almost' impossible to fail to connect with a bigger audience for soccer moving forward ... 

Can someone up there in Sydney kidnap Danny and Lederer for the next 2 x weeks and keep them from announcing anything..... pretty please :)

Give Danny a $50k bonus if he shuts his mouth for the next 6 months. 

Keep winning?
Look our popularity like the US fluctuates being hot and cold based on when the WC and olympics is on and then we all stop pretending to like the game 

sad but true..... 

It will be interesting if this all translates in greater W League attendances.  

It's hard to see it making a huge difference to A-League W even if we win the tournament. All the players the country falls in love with will head straight back to their overseas clubs and in the modern world with all the kids on social media and such they will follow the players through that. I mean if Kerr announced she was going back to Perth for the upcoming season, then it would get interesting to see the following it could get compared to when she used to play there, but obviously that's not happening. 

The Matildas should be huge business going forward however, surely State Governments will be bidding big money for any games over the next decade or so and likewise TV money should be much better. Channel 7 have probably made a fortune off this World Cup with the ratings being a lot higher than anyone imagined. Hopefully 7 spend more money on womens football in the future and not use it all on AFLW.

Probably won't but that's OK think about how many little kids are now thinking football and what is possible for them.

The amount of little girls (and boys) I see at the matches has been great. Kids that are carrying carboard signs made with textas and glitter. When was the last time you saw that? Just fantastic.

The vibe at the matches is also great as already commented on. Barely any swearing, lots of good humour and genuine joy just to be there. Definitely no aggro which I imagine puts a lot of hand wringers off going to the A League.  

As also mentioned affordable tickets. When I was in Brisbane a family of 5 was $90 to see the Roar play. Just ridiculous. $50 would have been fair.

IN bold, the future what isn't seen and un noticed but starts at grass roots !
They dgaf about APL its about to play football having watched a WC here and our own running on the grass and dreaming.
You don't see knock off effects for years but its the DNA thats created.

Our games leaders are the ones who need to act and help support from the ground as we all know.
Costs, support the countless volanters more, improve coaching kits - give acknowledgement.
Improve the eco system.
Be more transparent.

Considering the bulk of the Matildas Squad doesnt play in the W-League why would it? 

national team success is good for particpation - as more and more young girls say 'i want to be the next Sam Kerr' 

It does nessarily mean more girls/boys are watching a completely different league/competition 

I obviously hope it does result in more people watching and attending games but it is a long 'bow' to draw saying Matildas doing well will improve domestic support.....same thing with the Socceroos the boys did well in the world cup but the AL still had 'very' low attendance and viewership 

Friends in England are saying the exact opposite... After their Euro triumph, the following season saw a huge increase in spectators for womens football....  Your right about the players though..... would help if the Wleague kept their stars in Australia....

As for the Socceroos, .... the APL killed any chance of anything happening.... 

95% of Englands Squad plays in the Englands womens Super league which pay 10-20x times what the Womens AL could pay......

You're also forgetting the 'carry on' effect of these women repersenting clubs that have established fans bases from the mens game. 

The AFLW has done this with established AFL sides 'merging and blurring' the lines for people who are 'already' members for the mens sides. Thus if you're an Arsenal fan in the EPL your probably going to support the Arsenal Womens team you only need to capture a small % of the mens support base to get good numbers to the stadiums base on the sheer number of fans the bigger clubs have..... 

I honestly hope more people attend and watch the AL womens and mens division but personally i dont think this will have any carry over effect on the top domestic division - but it will boost the clubs at the grass roots which i personally care a lot more about then the AL

it is Grass roots that make these stars so for me im happy the clubs that our useless FA have neglected deserve the credit 

We can't maintain this popularity for the womens game. It's a world cup. It's at home. It's an event being an event.

To capitalise on this, I think we need to be lobbying hard for fair grass roots funding and make a concerted push to turn the ALW fully professional. A big part of that should be pushing the media partners that made a fucking feast on us for ratings on this cup to put some decent money toward a ALW specific media deal.

Seven are cnts that we should never hitch our wagon to. But I think it's really up to Optus to put its money where its mouth is. They send all the money O/S and placate us with feel good documentaries about the grassroots but the thing they've never done is pay for pro Australian footballers to play pro football in Australia.

I think the generally fair ticket prices but also pricier categories for these massive games are the treat in many household budgets. The ALW will have to really go hard on good pricing which is unlikely sustainable. It's a fest, a one-off, with great hype and that's great. Invariably a lot will dissipate. I don't think we'll see anything remotely close to how it's kicked on in England.  

Post tournament most will seek out other past times and it'll be incredibly hard to reel them in. I hope I'm wrong but the customer and fan is hard to crack.

Its a question/premise I/we have been questioning since 1974, when the Socceroos made the World Cup for the first time.

Even the notion that making and being in World Cups Men's and Women's and having some flow on success would transfer to Club Level football.

The historic evidence suggests it doesn't make a difference at Club Level never has.

The Club dynamics can be answered by these links:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/marquee-players-are-overrated-says-new-a-league-advisor-scudamore-20191115-p53b1p.html
https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/football-podcast-aleague-news-richard-scudamore-ffa-football-federation-australia-analysis-review-epl/news-story/804350649d0087b8d0da73042178d8dc
https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/a-league-sign-epl-genius-scudamore-532405
https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/focus-on-football-not-marquees-says-epl-guru-scudamore-538758
http://pfa.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Attachment-1-in-text-FORTHEFANS.pdf

Your answers to what the APL should do are all in these links, and have always been there.

APL has a different view with an MLS centric policy as apposed to a Global Standard and has ignored or discarded the advice provided.

And let's be clear that the early success of the AL centred around a belief from football people that we could make the game a success in terms of reach in the form of attendances and media, even though the standard of play wasn't great, its now better but the metrics are down. We lost the "buy-in" of a higher purpose, in making the game relevant here.

The A-League is also modelled on the ....AFL.  Works for them because the best players don't leave to play overseas.

The problem with football in this country was always how to go fully professional and still connect with the fans. This problem was solved by the A-League franchise model, and the deal with Foxtel. 

 The model undeniably was fully professional, and connected with more fans than ever before, its not even close. 

  The game was relevant

 Then the connection with fans was lost.

 The new problem is how to regain the connection with fans, and still remain fully professional.

Could maybe look at the rest of the world, and copy them.

sometime before I die would be handy

We did.  It went nowhere.

We did? when mate.?

Ppl keep bringing this up as some sort of gotcha for why pro/rel can’t work here..but conveniently leave out the fact the NSL had direct pro/rel for only 2-3? seasons of its entire 27yr existence..w/o a national 2nd tier below it.

Ok so you tell me what it is that P and R of the current lower division clubs and relegation of current A-League clubs is going to bring to the table in terms of increased attendances, viewerships, sponsorships and media interest.

These are the measurements of "popularity" that matter. 

Romanticism and nostalgia won't bring in over a billion dollars that the A-league did and you need money for a fully professional code.  Why fully pro?  Because full professionalism was the key plank that old timer stakeholder in the NSLback in the day identified as being the *number one* priority for football in this country... and some of them actually knew what they were talking about.

 

With P&R you need to not finish in the relegation zone
To not finish in the Relegation Zone, you need a team that's stronger than the worst of the rest
If you can do that in the top league year in year out, without being professional, good luck, that'll be a fascinating story in itself.

No need to put the cart before the horse.   P&R will force professionalism naturally

P&R will also get rid of the lemons that are giving the 'Pro game' a bad image.  (Yes, I'm looking at you Brisbane)

If there was promotion and relegation from the ALM to NSD there's no way Melbourne Victory would have finished last in 20/21!

Bottom 2 for 3 of the last 4 seasons. 

They've earnt it

They probably would have put a little more effort in if there was a threat of relegation though mate....... 

Hey, just look at us now,

Almost interested in discussing the A-League 

ALMOST!!!! hahahahahaha Nah just pointing out that, just like in NRL, AFL, NFL, NBA, MLS etc etc etc teams dont give a shit were they finish if they are outside the finals (playoffs) and it doesn't matter either..... in 99.999999 % of every other league if you are 3rd last with 3 rounds to go the players and staff start getting sweaty arse cheeks...... 

Yeah, one of the biggest downsides of the current model is that teams at the bottom basically give up halfway through the season. Sometimes they might have an outside chance of making the top 6, but even then that's pretty meaningless (only once has a team outside the top 3 won the grand final). The threat of relegation would at least give players a reason to play like their lives depended on it and fans a reason to show up. This problem will only get bigger as the A-League expands to 14 and then 16 teams.

Look at the AFL and NRL. Even with 8-team finals series, teams at the bottom now strive to finish last so that they get good draft picks for future seasons. It's a perverse incentive system.

Perverse is the right term for it...... really is bizarre how meaningful it seems to be to closed off leagues that the "myth" of every season anyone can win it is..... For a country like the US, particularly, that prides itself on its staunch support of capitalism, anti-socialism and the "great American dream", they certainly go out of their way to make sure that their sport is like a reality game show.....  blechhhhhh.... 

There is no draft that I know of to date for the NRL though it has been discussed due to their lob sided comp, added a new club this season and expecting another I think next but don't know where they are finding quality players to fill more teams for their lower levels you don't even hear about them.

The future due to the WWC here and current success will no doubt increase womens football at local Clubs and even boys to a degree.
I agree much with Flytox and others, trouble is our local Clubs are struggling not just for what has been mentioned re decent facilities needed for todays expectations unlike what most currently have they we frequent at trainings and weekends and X Clubs able to service growth.
The other major stickling point is "grounds" - the influx of womens football last 10/15+yrs being played Sundays has really added to ground availabilty for mens Sunday games (re its growth, O55's started in my comp for eg) AND the ongoing pre and post season fighting with cricket commencement and finish, arranging pre season games is a nightmare.
So its not just Clubs being able to cater for "growth" its grounds full stop as well.
Just going to some larger Clubs I know in my Association training nights are a melting pot, some grounds have 4 teams sharing a pitch and more.
At times its like your watching from above a mosh pit.
How do you train corners, shooting, have a half game match when your a squad of 27/30.
Sure small sided games are a go to but know what I mean.

$$$$'s need to go to grass roots, I don't know how much support comes from the FA/Feds to Association football but I'm sure its not adequate enough - one local strong PL1 Club I've known all my life has only now finally got the approval to have their ground synthetic for next season for its always a slush pit for one and not fit to play on due to the amount of traffic on it.
Its taken 10yrs and more of lobbying (evirnomentalists yaddayadda) and stumping up funds.
The ground is so woeful their PL1 team have to play home games elsewhere to date for years.
How many other Clubs are in the same scenario around the country.
NSW Gov agreed to contribute 500K - last I knew was a 1.4M upgrade but that quote mentioned was some 4yrs ago !
Here's a small snippet that I'm sure is similar everywhere :

“With our player numbers expected to grow to 20,000 by the year 2026, this upgrade is essential to allow our community the opportunity to continue playing their chosen sport.”

XXXXX FC are equally excited by the prospect of XXXXX Oval redevelopment as their female participation numbers soar, reaching 35% of total club numbers in 2022.  The Club’s new strategic plan puts into focus their community, football development and providing all players access to football year-round. XXXX have been active in their support of the local referees association by hosting their pre-season courses.

As a Club, XXXX FC will be contributing over $850,000 to the project through member funds and grants as part of the Asian Cup Legacy fund, alongside NSFA’s $125,000 contribution. This investment from the Club and Association demonstrates the commitment football is willing to make towards Council grounds to create better community facilities and assets for the future."

Well the answer is 42.  Let me explain.

In the context of this thread, the question is why is football and specifically the A-league not "popular" right now?  Agreed?

The most common complaint is that the A-League is stale because its boring watching the same small number of closed shop teams every season.  The second most common complaint is that they're not "authentic" clubs.  The third complaint is that without relegation there is no excitement and incentive to do better at the bottom and without promotion there is no excitement and incentive to do better in the lower leagues

P and R is touted is the solution to both these problems, and therefore make the game more "popular".

Point 1.  Its fact that 42 unique clubs played in the NSL.  FORTY TWO. If FORTY TWO teams is not enough variety,  how many additional unique teams do you think P and R will need to introduce to the top tier to make it interesting to the football public, this time around?

Point 2.  Authenticity.  All those FORTY TWO Clubs were as authentic as they could be.

Pint 3.  Oh but those FORTY TWO teams didn't get promoted through a NSD"   Ok, explain how significant do you think that difference is going to be for the popularity of the game given that most of these clubs have tiny community followings?   Who- apart from those tiny communities, who and how many others are really going to care that they're in the league to improve its popularity?

History is clear.  Adding more unique teams from the lower leagues results in sweet FA to the games "popularity"  in the long run.

Getting back on topic, the thread is "how do we maintain the current popularity being achieved by the WWC.  Well you first need a measure of "popularity"?

"How do you measure "popularity"?  I understand your personal romantic and nostalgic connection to the past,  but that doesn't keep the lights on.  Well you measure"popularity in terms of match-day attendances, broadcast viewers, media interest and sponsorships. That's the ugly truth.

Despite FORTY TWO unique clubs playing in the NSL, the attendances didn't increase, the viewership numbers were rubbish, the sponsorships small, the media attention was scant.

The popularity never grew: 

I agree with you 100% on EVERYTHING above Enzo.... the NSL was a red hot steaming dumpster fire.... Using "nostalgia" and  "personal romanticism" as a handbrakes for moving on to the next stage of evolution doesn't help me OR you.  Those 42 clubs wanted to but COULDNT market themselves beyond their meagre resources, thats the point... We now have mainstream media, an absolutely stellar home world cup and potentially thousands of young boys and girls looking to swell our playing pool next year... THEY are the future. 11 Australia clubs to support wont work for us, this is beyond the AFL and NRL, we need every single kiddie that is looking on in amazement at this new found "window into the world of the beautiful game" to join the hundreds of thousands of other at their local club. This club should have enough pitches, lights, changerooms and staff to cater for them... The bigger these clubs grow, they more they want to achieve so they can attract more players and support... THATS what Pro/rel can add, THATS what should have been set up in 1977 or in 2005 or in 2024...Build from the bottom, have a club like Middies famous Woy Woy screaming up the divisions because they have 5000 juniors, a full time admin and coaching staff, 4 pitches and 500 punters through the doors on seniors matchday.... fuck the APL and how much money they make man.... Fuck the NSL and how it held soccer in this country back... lets move forward.....   Those tiny communities (whether they be geographical, religious or ethnic) you dismiss can do amazing things...Having 1000 clubs be slightly more popular means the sport iteslef will be massively more popular...  People gravitate towards their own enclaves, they dont do well when told who their "tribe" is.... If AFL was to start up next year from scratch and designate new franchises to new areas it will die in 2 seasons...... 

Your fascination with the 42 is misleading

If Melbourne Victory get relegated, that will be very very interesting, 
The journey from possibly, to probably, to actually happening would create much more media interest than any APL manufactured nonsense

The following Season, Melbourne Victory would be hot favourites to get promoted back
That journey and the chance of them possibly failing, to probably going up to actually going back up would also generate much more interest
Add to that the previously promoted teams battle to stay "in with the big boys" and maybe failing

Net result after 2 seasons is exactly the same sets of teams in the leagues, but actual, genuine interest along the way, 
It could have been any of the 'Big Boys' who dropped, and it could've been any of the NSD's that went up. 

That adventure is in the mind & actions of all 24

Authenticity is important for some but less so for others

Right now the APL is stuck with a fishing rod with only plastic bait
Right now the NPL is stuck with only a small pond to fish in

Open it up and let everyone fish anywhere with whatever they have available

Every club starts as a 'tiny community'.

Some stay that way, some give up, others grow

They grow because of many reasons, they might just be well run, have a natural monopoly, a wealthy benefactor or other revenue stream, or some crazy events that no-one predicted.

Right now, they're stop still at maximum NPL level with nowhere to go. 
Meanwhile the APL is carrying Duds that they're insisting 'must survive' because....erm.... metrics