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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xNice read. Who would of thought my ramblings would be easily backed up by stats :P I'll make a stats nerd out of you yet :P having said that the slingshot effect being a mechanism to grow football is not something i expected (and I didn't expect to find that in the nsl!). It actually goes against Nick Galatas statement that the good thing about p and r is it helps clubs find their level - p and r benefits the ecosystem by stretching kids above their level and letting them yoyoSo stats will always teach you something new and confront your biases Yes, but once the yo-yoing goes for a while clubs DO find their level..... it happens the whole world over.... some clubs take decades, others seasons, but evnetually each is where they deserve to be ... on sporting merit. Well its complicating because the yoyo is one of the means by which the level rises and you end up with more clubs that can play at a pro level over time EXACTLY RIGHT... England didnt get 96 pro clubs (or whatever the number is) overnight.... Indeed which is why npl on planes for a nst would be totally fine as long as you have a system to make yoyoing common. If we cant afford a conference tier could make it for the time being that relegated teams automatically get first dibs on promotion if they finish top in the npl next year rather than use a finals systems pper Heres a thought for your next Roar article and Reddit poll... announce a National Second Divison made up of 14 as yet to be formed, new regional football clubs, based all around Australia with absolutely NO connection to exisiting effnik clubs but perhaps to some of the larger regional/metro clubs like Wollongong, Shepparton, Tasmania, Canberra etc.... let me know if ANYONE mentions cost as a prohibitive factor or mentions "we need a stable Aleague first" heheheheheheheh, I think you're imposing some sort of siege mentality on yourself mate. From my experience the vast majority of Australian football fans would welcome a mix of NPL/former NSL clubs and new expansions to an NSD. SU58 presents an issue for some people though after the Australia Cup issue. Concerns about affordability are almost certainly separate to concerns about ethnic violence or whatever for most people; not everything is a thinly veiled attack on old Australian football I hear your point, few are explicitly complaining about ethnic clubs these days. But I do wonder at how many are resistant to nst having more flexibility over entry requirements at their own expense if the clubs are paying for it and they want to set whatever criteria they want, why do people say "don't do that its npl on planes" (There was a poll in aleagues reddit where the majority either opposed an nst or would only allow it if it had a high bar for entry, even though it is at the clubs expense. Rugari is in this camp) They certainly ARE few but I think your buddy Braisntrust has a psychological issue with NPL clubs and Greeks in particular.... That rambling about a South fan being paid $50 to travel to Shepparton and report on stats for a Chinese betting site was a personal favourite of mine....
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grazorblade
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we win 1-0 and top the group
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grazorblade
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xNice read. Who would of thought my ramblings would be easily backed up by stats :P I'll make a stats nerd out of you yet :P having said that the slingshot effect being a mechanism to grow football is not something i expected (and I didn't expect to find that in the nsl!). It actually goes against Nick Galatas statement that the good thing about p and r is it helps clubs find their level - p and r benefits the ecosystem by stretching kids above their level and letting them yoyoSo stats will always teach you something new and confront your biases Yes, but once the yo-yoing goes for a while clubs DO find their level..... it happens the whole world over.... some clubs take decades, others seasons, but evnetually each is where they deserve to be ... on sporting merit. Well its complicating because the yoyo is one of the means by which the level rises and you end up with more clubs that can play at a pro level over time EXACTLY RIGHT... England didnt get 96 pro clubs (or whatever the number is) overnight.... Indeed which is why npl on planes for a nst would be totally fine as long as you have a system to make yoyoing common. If we cant afford a conference tier could make it for the time being that relegated teams automatically get first dibs on promotion if they finish top in the npl next year rather than use a finals systems pper Heres a thought for your next Roar article and Reddit poll... announce a National Second Divison made up of 14 as yet to be formed, new regional football clubs, based all around Australia with absolutely NO connection to exisiting effnik clubs but perhaps to some of the larger regional/metro clubs like Wollongong, Shepparton, Tasmania, Canberra etc.... let me know if ANYONE mentions cost as a prohibitive factor or mentions "we need a stable Aleague first" heheheheheheheh, I think you're imposing some sort of siege mentality on yourself mate. From my experience the vast majority of Australian football fans would welcome a mix of NPL/former NSL clubs and new expansions to an NSD. SU58 presents an issue for some people though after the Australia Cup issue. Concerns about affordability are almost certainly separate to concerns about ethnic violence or whatever for most people; not everything is a thinly veiled attack on old Australian football I hear your point, few are explicitly complaining about ethnic clubs these days. But I do wonder at how many are resistant to nst having more flexibility over entry requirements at their own expense if the clubs are paying for it and they want to set whatever criteria they want, why do people say "don't do that its npl on planes" (There was a poll in aleagues reddit where the majority either opposed an nst or would only allow it if it had a high bar for entry, even though it is at the clubs expense. Rugari is in this camp)
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angusozi
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xNice read. Who would of thought my ramblings would be easily backed up by stats :P I'll make a stats nerd out of you yet :P having said that the slingshot effect being a mechanism to grow football is not something i expected (and I didn't expect to find that in the nsl!). It actually goes against Nick Galatas statement that the good thing about p and r is it helps clubs find their level - p and r benefits the ecosystem by stretching kids above their level and letting them yoyoSo stats will always teach you something new and confront your biases Yes, but once the yo-yoing goes for a while clubs DO find their level..... it happens the whole world over.... some clubs take decades, others seasons, but evnetually each is where they deserve to be ... on sporting merit. Well its complicating because the yoyo is one of the means by which the level rises and you end up with more clubs that can play at a pro level over time EXACTLY RIGHT... England didnt get 96 pro clubs (or whatever the number is) overnight.... Indeed which is why npl on planes for a nst would be totally fine as long as you have a system to make yoyoing common. If we cant afford a conference tier could make it for the time being that relegated teams automatically get first dibs on promotion if they finish top in the npl next year rather than use a finals systems pper Heres a thought for your next Roar article and Reddit poll... announce a National Second Divison made up of 14 as yet to be formed, new regional football clubs, based all around Australia with absolutely NO connection to exisiting effnik clubs but perhaps to some of the larger regional/metro clubs like Wollongong, Shepparton, Tasmania, Canberra etc.... let me know if ANYONE mentions cost as a prohibitive factor or mentions "we need a stable Aleague first" heheheheheheheh, I think you're imposing some sort of siege mentality on yourself mate. From my experience the vast majority of Australian football fans would welcome a mix of NPL/former NSL clubs and new expansions to an NSD. SU58 presents an issue for some people though after the Australia Cup issue. Concerns about affordability are almost certainly separate to concerns about ethnic violence or whatever for most people; not everything is a thinly veiled attack on old Australian football
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xNice read. Who would of thought my ramblings would be easily backed up by stats :P I'll make a stats nerd out of you yet :P having said that the slingshot effect being a mechanism to grow football is not something i expected (and I didn't expect to find that in the nsl!). It actually goes against Nick Galatas statement that the good thing about p and r is it helps clubs find their level - p and r benefits the ecosystem by stretching kids above their level and letting them yoyoSo stats will always teach you something new and confront your biases Yes, but once the yo-yoing goes for a while clubs DO find their level..... it happens the whole world over.... some clubs take decades, others seasons, but evnetually each is where they deserve to be ... on sporting merit. Well its complicating because the yoyo is one of the means by which the level rises and you end up with more clubs that can play at a pro level over time EXACTLY RIGHT... England didnt get 96 pro clubs (or whatever the number is) overnight.... Indeed which is why npl on planes for a nst would be totally fine as long as you have a system to make yoyoing common. If we cant afford a conference tier could make it for the time being that relegated teams automatically get first dibs on promotion if they finish top in the npl next year rather than use a finals systems Heres a thought for your next Roar article and Reddit poll... announce a National Second Divison made up of 14 as yet to be formed, new regional football clubs, based all around Australia with absolutely NO connection to exisiting effnik clubs but perhaps to some of the larger regional/metro clubs like Wollongong, Shepparton, Tasmania, Canberra etc.... let me know if ANYONE mentions cost as a prohibitive factor or mentions "we need a stable Aleague first" heheheheheheheh,
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grazorblade
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
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+x+x+x+x+xNice read. Who would of thought my ramblings would be easily backed up by stats :P I'll make a stats nerd out of you yet :P Stats are a means to an end and, while I enjoyed your article, to be honest mate it is, at least to me, just like telling all of us the sun usually shines during the day and the stars come out at night...... And yet, judging by some of the responses you got, people STILL don't see the forest for the trees :) Feel free to jump in ;) Im pretty sympathetic to the skeptics. P and r in aus is like a super account that costs a fortune in the short term. So it makes sense many would pass out of fear the long term benefit not materializing. Canada, our most similar country, hasnt brought it about and it would take a very bold and very sebsible administration to make it help Bold people tend not to be sensible and vice versa. A bold person is much more likely to be a denny townsend type and blow the fortune on something reckless and a senisble type is likely to just hold on to what you have and wait for better times No thanks, one online football stomping ground is enough for me.... I dont have an issue with scepticism, I take offence to the out-rite hostility towards any form of progress, especially if it involved the "effnik boogeyman". Because, while some are reasonably sceptical, the majority of hostility at a NSD and Pro/rel every forming would disappear overnight if the clubs pushing for it where NOT effnik... Yeah fair enough. Fingers crossed things change
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grazorblade
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+xNice read. Who would of thought my ramblings would be easily backed up by stats :P I'll make a stats nerd out of you yet :P having said that the slingshot effect being a mechanism to grow football is not something i expected (and I didn't expect to find that in the nsl!). It actually goes against Nick Galatas statement that the good thing about p and r is it helps clubs find their level - p and r benefits the ecosystem by stretching kids above their level and letting them yoyoSo stats will always teach you something new and confront your biases Yes, but once the yo-yoing goes for a while clubs DO find their level..... it happens the whole world over.... some clubs take decades, others seasons, but evnetually each is where they deserve to be ... on sporting merit. Well its complicating because the yoyo is one of the means by which the level rises and you end up with more clubs that can play at a pro level over time EXACTLY RIGHT... England didnt get 96 pro clubs (or whatever the number is) overnight.... Indeed which is why npl on planes for a nst would be totally fine as long as you have a system to make yoyoing common. If we cant afford a conference tier could make it for the time being that relegated teams automatically get first dibs on promotion if they finish top in the npl next year rather than use a finals systems
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
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+x+x+x+xNice read. Who would of thought my ramblings would be easily backed up by stats :P I'll make a stats nerd out of you yet :P Stats are a means to an end and, while I enjoyed your article, to be honest mate it is, at least to me, just like telling all of us the sun usually shines during the day and the stars come out at night...... And yet, judging by some of the responses you got, people STILL don't see the forest for the trees :) Feel free to jump in ;) Im pretty sympathetic to the skeptics. P and r in aus is like a super account that costs a fortune in the short term. So it makes sense many would pass out of fear the long term benefit not materializing. Canada, our most similar country, hasnt brought it about and it would take a very bold and very sebsible administration to make it help Bold people tend not to be sensible and vice versa. A bold person is much more likely to be a denny townsend type and blow the fortune on something reckless and a senisble type is likely to just hold on to what you have and wait for better times No thanks, one online football stomping ground is enough for me.... I dont have an issue with scepticism, I take offence to the out-rite hostility towards any form of progress, especially if it involved the "effnik boogeyman". Because, while some are reasonably sceptical, the majority of hostility at a NSD and Pro/rel every forming would disappear overnight if the clubs pushing for it where NOT effnik...
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+xNice read. Who would of thought my ramblings would be easily backed up by stats :P I'll make a stats nerd out of you yet :P having said that the slingshot effect being a mechanism to grow football is not something i expected (and I didn't expect to find that in the nsl!). It actually goes against Nick Galatas statement that the good thing about p and r is it helps clubs find their level - p and r benefits the ecosystem by stretching kids above their level and letting them yoyoSo stats will always teach you something new and confront your biases Yes, but once the yo-yoing goes for a while clubs DO find their level..... it happens the whole world over.... some clubs take decades, others seasons, but evnetually each is where they deserve to be ... on sporting merit. Well its complicating because the yoyo is one of the means by which the level rises and you end up with more clubs that can play at a pro level over time EXACTLY RIGHT... England didnt get 96 pro clubs (or whatever the number is) overnight....
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grazorblade
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
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+x+x+x+xNice read. Who would of thought my ramblings would be easily backed up by stats :P I'll make a stats nerd out of you yet :P having said that the slingshot effect being a mechanism to grow football is not something i expected (and I didn't expect to find that in the nsl!). It actually goes against Nick Galatas statement that the good thing about p and r is it helps clubs find their level - p and r benefits the ecosystem by stretching kids above their level and letting them yoyoSo stats will always teach you something new and confront your biases Yes, but once the yo-yoing goes for a while clubs DO find their level..... it happens the whole world over.... some clubs take decades, others seasons, but evnetually each is where they deserve to be ... on sporting merit. Well its complicating because the yoyo is one of the means by which the level rises and you end up with more clubs that can play at a pro level over time
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grazorblade
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
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+x+x+xNice read. Who would of thought my ramblings would be easily backed up by stats :P I'll make a stats nerd out of you yet :P Stats are a means to an end and, while I enjoyed your article, to be honest mate it is, at least to me, just like telling all of us the sun usually shines during the day and the stars come out at night...... And yet, judging by some of the responses you got, people STILL don't see the forest for the trees :) Feel free to jump in ;) Im pretty sympathetic to the skeptics. P and r in aus is like a super account that costs a fortune in the short term. So it makes sense many would pass out of fear the long term benefit not materializing. Canada, our most similar country, hasnt brought it about and it would take a very bold and very sebsible administration to make it help Bold people tend not to be sensible and vice versa. A bold person is much more likely to be a denny townsend type and blow the fortune on something reckless and a senisble type is likely to just hold on to what you have and wait for better times
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+xNice read. Who would of thought my ramblings would be easily backed up by stats :P I'll make a stats nerd out of you yet :P having said that the slingshot effect being a mechanism to grow football is not something i expected (and I didn't expect to find that in the nsl!). It actually goes against Nick Galatas statement that the good thing about p and r is it helps clubs find their level - p and r benefits the ecosystem by stretching kids above their level and letting them yoyoSo stats will always teach you something new and confront your biases Yes, but once the yo-yoing goes for a while clubs DO find their level..... it happens the whole world over.... some clubs take decades, others seasons, but evnetually each is where they deserve to be ... on sporting merit.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
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+x+xNice read. Who would of thought my ramblings would be easily backed up by stats :P I'll make a stats nerd out of you yet :P Stats are a means to an end and, while I enjoyed your article, to be honest mate it is, at least to me, just like telling all of us the sun usually shines during the day and the stars come out at night...... And yet, judging by some of the responses you got, people STILL don't see the forest for the trees :)
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grazorblade
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+x+xNice read. Who would of thought my ramblings would be easily backed up by stats :P I'll make a stats nerd out of you yet :P having said that the slingshot effect being a mechanism to grow football is not something i expected (and I didn't expect to find that in the nsl!). It actually goes against Nick Galatas statement that the good thing about p and r is it helps clubs find their level - p and r benefits the ecosystem by stretching kids above their level and letting them yoyo So stats will always teach you something new and confront your biases
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
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+x+x+x+x+xWe should send riciti emails politely arguing for a 2025 launch... t would be 1000 times more effective if you bought an APIA membership and THEN voiced your opinion... Money talks, bullshit walks mate. I tried to buy some shares in their NST venture They then told me that ASIC wouldn't let them (red tape rules to follow first) so they had to refund me and wait 12 months lol, that explains the "lets push the launch out to 2026" take then I suppose :) I think you're only allowed 20 shareholders until your prospectus has been out 12 months I didnt think their was a limit on share issue for newly listed companies.. but fair enough.
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grazorblade
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Group: Forum Members
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+xNice read. Who would of thought my ramblings would be easily backed up by stats :P I'll make a stats nerd out of you yet :P
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
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Nice read. Who would of thought my ramblings would be easily backed up by stats :P
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xthe very sad thing is Football in Australia cannot generate enough revenue or support to operate the way many want it to operate. IMO the even sadder thing thing is so many people believe the answer is both simple and easy to do.... there is no simple solution never has been.... the belief that their is this magical solution out there IMO stops other thoughts and ideas. I'd try a simple solution first Full Pyramid Every Decision at Every Club can be then based on a solid Structure where Every Club can find their own level thanks you are obviously right... its so simple... no other issues... nothing else matters ... nothing else will work... again thanks for stating the obvious solution that solves all problems... Mid, it solves the MAIN problem though... T According to those that believe it will. My issue and remember I want P & R....IMO P & R is part of the problem but not the main issue.... OK, fair enough. Would you let me know what you think the MAIN ISSUE is then? What is the #1 limitation on growing and improving the more than 1000 clubs and a million participants of football in this country? OK.... The wording of your question, is forward loaded which focuses an answer towards P & R.... Further it pre supposes every club in the country is affected. Given I support the introduction of P & R, it kinda weird people are arguing with me. My stance has not changed over many years, our biggest issue in my very very very humble opinion is a total lack of respect for Australian Football, and until that occurs we will never create a support base capable of supporting what people want Football to achieve, including P & R. The common belief by many pertaining to Football in Australia is that we have support at National level, support at grass roots park level but poor at connecting the grass roots to an Australian Professional league. While I see some truth in this I wish to challenge, the national team’s belief. Prior to the 2005 qualification match and the 2006 WC, the Socceroo’s were poorly supported with crowds for most games very low, and aside from the Iran game in 97 & 2001 WCQ, most games failed to deliver any great TV ratings. The Matilda’s prior to the 2023 WC, mostly underappreciated, hardly watched or attended. What changed for both the 2005/2006 Socceroos and the 2023 Matilda’s was prior to those matches they were held out to be high quality sides filled with world class players, months before those matches were played. Australian professional Football, has always been seen in a negative light, coaches not up an acceptable standard, players are poor quality. This was the case for both the NSL and especially the A-League when Craig Foster made it a personal mission to highlight how poor our standards were and what was needed to fix the poor standards in Australian professional Football. For years that followed, games were hardly discussed, everything was about the poor quality of everything from the administration, the coaches, the players, the systems, Football structures. My guess is the net hits were for the how to fix and whats wrong articles. Those into Europe and Champions league will tell you it hurts them to watch the A-L as its so poor and that’s also the message they spread. So Mon we need to command the respect of both the player base and Football fans, and P & R is a part, but before we can introduce P & R need to accept we have quality and our Football is of a high standard. A classic example, and not trying to defend Arnold, but using him as an example, mostly torn to shreds as being of poor quality, lacking in technical ability, yet chosen by at the last world cup as the best coach [the first time ever for an Australian coach]. OK OK OK OK the judges did not see the lead up games; however, I would counter you can’t go from a donkey to the goat in a couple of weeks either and therein lies an issue we cannot see or refuse to accept we do have quality. Until as a nation we admit we have quality, crowds, rating, P & R... all those things will suffer. Mon, hope this answers the question you asked. Prime example is the Alegaue, sure some of the football on display is pretty dire but having watched a little of it last season it is NOT terrible... When talking about on pitch performances in general in Australia, I'd say we are punching above what our squad values would suggest. Not just talking about the AL, but the same goes for NPL as well. We spend next to nothing on squads. $2.6M for an entire professional squad is peanuts in the global football economy. Our expectations should be well below what we actually get. I reckon we are pretty much on par with anywhere else in the world with similar budgets. a league performances are insane given our wages. I'm guessing nsl performances were too I did a deep dive a while ago and found we were the only team in the fifa top 80 (?) that didn't have a regular in the big 5. Even Jordan had 2. Our national team elo was what you would expect from a team with 10 big 5 regulars If we ever do get a pyramid sorted, I really do believe that aussies are ridiculously good at sport Like I said.... its not the stuff on the pitch that keeps people away... in any country, let alone Australia... Criticism of players, coaches, systems is ANOTHER thing all together.. Robust discussion if you will, is the mark of a proper football ecosystem... Criticising Arnie isnt a show of disrespect to Australian football, quite the opposite, its a desire for improvement. Eurosnobs (a term I find ridiculous btw) saying that the level of football on offer in the Aleague is what keeps them from engaging are hiding behind that as an EXCUSE in my opinion... What they really want is the media engagement, the banter with rival fans, the tribalism of club support and the drama of challenging for and preventing others from challenging for silverware...
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Lupi33
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 291,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xthe very sad thing is Football in Australia cannot generate enough revenue or support to operate the way many want it to operate. IMO the even sadder thing thing is so many people believe the answer is both simple and easy to do.... there is no simple solution never has been.... the belief that their is this magical solution out there IMO stops other thoughts and ideas. I'd try a simple solution first Full Pyramid Every Decision at Every Club can be then based on a solid Structure where Every Club can find their own level thanks you are obviously right... its so simple... no other issues... nothing else matters ... nothing else will work... again thanks for stating the obvious solution that solves all problems... Mid, it solves the MAIN problem though... T According to those that believe it will. My issue and remember I want P & R....IMO P & R is part of the problem but not the main issue.... OK, fair enough. Would you let me know what you think the MAIN ISSUE is then? What is the #1 limitation on growing and improving the more than 1000 clubs and a million participants of football in this country? OK.... The wording of your question, is forward loaded which focuses an answer towards P & R.... Further it pre supposes every club in the country is affected. Given I support the introduction of P & R, it kinda weird people are arguing with me. My stance has not changed over many years, our biggest issue in my very very very humble opinion is a total lack of respect for Australian Football, and until that occurs we will never create a support base capable of supporting what people want Football to achieve, including P & R. The common belief by many pertaining to Football in Australia is that we have support at National level, support at grass roots park level but poor at connecting the grass roots to an Australian Professional league. While I see some truth in this I wish to challenge, the national team’s belief. Prior to the 2005 qualification match and the 2006 WC, the Socceroo’s were poorly supported with crowds for most games very low, and aside from the Iran game in 97 & 2001 WCQ, most games failed to deliver any great TV ratings. The Matilda’s prior to the 2023 WC, mostly underappreciated, hardly watched or attended. What changed for both the 2005/2006 Socceroos and the 2023 Matilda’s was prior to those matches they were held out to be high quality sides filled with world class players, months before those matches were played. Australian professional Football, has always been seen in a negative light, coaches not up an acceptable standard, players are poor quality. This was the case for both the NSL and especially the A-League when Craig Foster made it a personal mission to highlight how poor our standards were and what was needed to fix the poor standards in Australian professional Football. For years that followed, games were hardly discussed, everything was about the poor quality of everything from the administration, the coaches, the players, the systems, Football structures. My guess is the net hits were for the how to fix and whats wrong articles. Those into Europe and Champions league will tell you it hurts them to watch the A-L as its so poor and that’s also the message they spread. So Mon we need to command the respect of both the player base and Football fans, and P & R is a part, but before we can introduce P & R need to accept we have quality and our Football is of a high standard. A classic example, and not trying to defend Arnold, but using him as an example, mostly torn to shreds as being of poor quality, lacking in technical ability, yet chosen by at the last world cup as the best coach [the first time ever for an Australian coach]. OK OK OK OK the judges did not see the lead up games; however, I would counter you can’t go from a donkey to the goat in a couple of weeks either and therein lies an issue we cannot see or refuse to accept we do have quality. Until as a nation we admit we have quality, crowds, rating, P & R... all those things will suffer. Mon, hope this answers the question you asked. Prime example is the Alegaue, sure some of the football on display is pretty dire but having watched a little of it last season it is NOT terrible... When talking about on pitch performances in general in Australia, I'd say we are punching above what our squad values would suggest. Not just talking about the AL, but the same goes for NPL as well. We spend next to nothing on squads. $2.6M for an entire professional squad is peanuts in the global football economy. Our expectations should be well below what we actually get. I reckon we are pretty much on par with anywhere else in the world with similar budgets. What do you base that on?
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grazorblade
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xthe very sad thing is Football in Australia cannot generate enough revenue or support to operate the way many want it to operate. IMO the even sadder thing thing is so many people believe the answer is both simple and easy to do.... there is no simple solution never has been.... the belief that their is this magical solution out there IMO stops other thoughts and ideas. I'd try a simple solution first Full Pyramid Every Decision at Every Club can be then based on a solid Structure where Every Club can find their own level thanks you are obviously right... its so simple... no other issues... nothing else matters ... nothing else will work... again thanks for stating the obvious solution that solves all problems... Mid, it solves the MAIN problem though... T According to those that believe it will. My issue and remember I want P & R....IMO P & R is part of the problem but not the main issue.... OK, fair enough. Would you let me know what you think the MAIN ISSUE is then? What is the #1 limitation on growing and improving the more than 1000 clubs and a million participants of football in this country? OK.... The wording of your question, is forward loaded which focuses an answer towards P & R.... Further it pre supposes every club in the country is affected. Given I support the introduction of P & R, it kinda weird people are arguing with me. My stance has not changed over many years, our biggest issue in my very very very humble opinion is a total lack of respect for Australian Football, and until that occurs we will never create a support base capable of supporting what people want Football to achieve, including P & R. The common belief by many pertaining to Football in Australia is that we have support at National level, support at grass roots park level but poor at connecting the grass roots to an Australian Professional league. While I see some truth in this I wish to challenge, the national team’s belief. Prior to the 2005 qualification match and the 2006 WC, the Socceroo’s were poorly supported with crowds for most games very low, and aside from the Iran game in 97 & 2001 WCQ, most games failed to deliver any great TV ratings. The Matilda’s prior to the 2023 WC, mostly underappreciated, hardly watched or attended. What changed for both the 2005/2006 Socceroos and the 2023 Matilda’s was prior to those matches they were held out to be high quality sides filled with world class players, months before those matches were played. Australian professional Football, has always been seen in a negative light, coaches not up an acceptable standard, players are poor quality. This was the case for both the NSL and especially the A-League when Craig Foster made it a personal mission to highlight how poor our standards were and what was needed to fix the poor standards in Australian professional Football. For years that followed, games were hardly discussed, everything was about the poor quality of everything from the administration, the coaches, the players, the systems, Football structures. My guess is the net hits were for the how to fix and whats wrong articles. Those into Europe and Champions league will tell you it hurts them to watch the A-L as its so poor and that’s also the message they spread. So Mon we need to command the respect of both the player base and Football fans, and P & R is a part, but before we can introduce P & R need to accept we have quality and our Football is of a high standard. A classic example, and not trying to defend Arnold, but using him as an example, mostly torn to shreds as being of poor quality, lacking in technical ability, yet chosen by at the last world cup as the best coach [the first time ever for an Australian coach]. OK OK OK OK the judges did not see the lead up games; however, I would counter you can’t go from a donkey to the goat in a couple of weeks either and therein lies an issue we cannot see or refuse to accept we do have quality. Until as a nation we admit we have quality, crowds, rating, P & R... all those things will suffer. Mon, hope this answers the question you asked. Prime example is the Alegaue, sure some of the football on display is pretty dire but having watched a little of it last season it is NOT terrible... When talking about on pitch performances in general in Australia, I'd say we are punching above what our squad values would suggest. Not just talking about the AL, but the same goes for NPL as well. We spend next to nothing on squads. $2.6M for an entire professional squad is peanuts in the global football economy. Our expectations should be well below what we actually get. I reckon we are pretty much on par with anywhere else in the world with similar budgets. a league performances are insane given our wages. I'm guessing nsl performances were too I did a deep dive a while ago and found we were the only team in the fifa top 80 (?) that didn't have a regular in the big 5. Even Jordan had 2. Our national team elo was what you would expect from a team with 10 big 5 regulars If we ever do get a pyramid sorted, I really do believe that aussies are ridiculously good at sport
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grazorblade
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Wrote an article on some of the academic evidence for p&r. Would love historic access to grass roots clubs junior player bases to do a deeper dive https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/07/24/why-promotion-relegation-proponents-are-right-even-though-pyramid-would-cost-football-australia-a-fortune/
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numklpkgulftumch
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+xWe should send riciti emails politely arguing for a 2025 launch... t would be 1000 times more effective if you bought an APIA membership and THEN voiced your opinion... Money talks, bullshit walks mate. I tried to buy some shares in their NST venture They then told me that ASIC wouldn't let them (red tape rules to follow first) so they had to refund me and wait 12 months lol, that explains the "lets push the launch out to 2026" take then I suppose :) I think you're only allowed 20 shareholders until your prospectus has been out 12 months
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Footyball
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xthe very sad thing is Football in Australia cannot generate enough revenue or support to operate the way many want it to operate. IMO the even sadder thing thing is so many people believe the answer is both simple and easy to do.... there is no simple solution never has been.... the belief that their is this magical solution out there IMO stops other thoughts and ideas. I'd try a simple solution first Full Pyramid Every Decision at Every Club can be then based on a solid Structure where Every Club can find their own level thanks you are obviously right... its so simple... no other issues... nothing else matters ... nothing else will work... again thanks for stating the obvious solution that solves all problems... Mid, it solves the MAIN problem though... T According to those that believe it will. My issue and remember I want P & R....IMO P & R is part of the problem but not the main issue.... OK, fair enough. Would you let me know what you think the MAIN ISSUE is then? What is the #1 limitation on growing and improving the more than 1000 clubs and a million participants of football in this country? OK.... The wording of your question, is forward loaded which focuses an answer towards P & R.... Further it pre supposes every club in the country is affected. Given I support the introduction of P & R, it kinda weird people are arguing with me. My stance has not changed over many years, our biggest issue in my very very very humble opinion is a total lack of respect for Australian Football, and until that occurs we will never create a support base capable of supporting what people want Football to achieve, including P & R. The common belief by many pertaining to Football in Australia is that we have support at National level, support at grass roots park level but poor at connecting the grass roots to an Australian Professional league. While I see some truth in this I wish to challenge, the national team’s belief. Prior to the 2005 qualification match and the 2006 WC, the Socceroo’s were poorly supported with crowds for most games very low, and aside from the Iran game in 97 & 2001 WCQ, most games failed to deliver any great TV ratings. The Matilda’s prior to the 2023 WC, mostly underappreciated, hardly watched or attended. What changed for both the 2005/2006 Socceroos and the 2023 Matilda’s was prior to those matches they were held out to be high quality sides filled with world class players, months before those matches were played. Australian professional Football, has always been seen in a negative light, coaches not up an acceptable standard, players are poor quality. This was the case for both the NSL and especially the A-League when Craig Foster made it a personal mission to highlight how poor our standards were and what was needed to fix the poor standards in Australian professional Football. For years that followed, games were hardly discussed, everything was about the poor quality of everything from the administration, the coaches, the players, the systems, Football structures. My guess is the net hits were for the how to fix and whats wrong articles. Those into Europe and Champions league will tell you it hurts them to watch the A-L as its so poor and that’s also the message they spread. So Mon we need to command the respect of both the player base and Football fans, and P & R is a part, but before we can introduce P & R need to accept we have quality and our Football is of a high standard. A classic example, and not trying to defend Arnold, but using him as an example, mostly torn to shreds as being of poor quality, lacking in technical ability, yet chosen by at the last world cup as the best coach [the first time ever for an Australian coach]. OK OK OK OK the judges did not see the lead up games; however, I would counter you can’t go from a donkey to the goat in a couple of weeks either and therein lies an issue we cannot see or refuse to accept we do have quality. Until as a nation we admit we have quality, crowds, rating, P & R... all those things will suffer. Mon, hope this answers the question you asked. Prime example is the Alegaue, sure some of the football on display is pretty dire but having watched a little of it last season it is NOT terrible... When talking about on pitch performances in general in Australia, I'd say we are punching above what our squad values would suggest. Not just talking about the AL, but the same goes for NPL as well. We spend next to nothing on squads. $2.6M for an entire professional squad is peanuts in the global football economy. Our expectations should be well below what we actually get. I reckon we are pretty much on par with anywhere else in the world with similar budgets. Which proves the player market is WAY too over inflated around the globe.
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someguyjc
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.1K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xthe very sad thing is Football in Australia cannot generate enough revenue or support to operate the way many want it to operate. IMO the even sadder thing thing is so many people believe the answer is both simple and easy to do.... there is no simple solution never has been.... the belief that their is this magical solution out there IMO stops other thoughts and ideas. I'd try a simple solution first Full Pyramid Every Decision at Every Club can be then based on a solid Structure where Every Club can find their own level thanks you are obviously right... its so simple... no other issues... nothing else matters ... nothing else will work... again thanks for stating the obvious solution that solves all problems... Mid, it solves the MAIN problem though... T According to those that believe it will. My issue and remember I want P & R....IMO P & R is part of the problem but not the main issue.... OK, fair enough. Would you let me know what you think the MAIN ISSUE is then? What is the #1 limitation on growing and improving the more than 1000 clubs and a million participants of football in this country? OK.... The wording of your question, is forward loaded which focuses an answer towards P & R.... Further it pre supposes every club in the country is affected. Given I support the introduction of P & R, it kinda weird people are arguing with me. My stance has not changed over many years, our biggest issue in my very very very humble opinion is a total lack of respect for Australian Football, and until that occurs we will never create a support base capable of supporting what people want Football to achieve, including P & R. The common belief by many pertaining to Football in Australia is that we have support at National level, support at grass roots park level but poor at connecting the grass roots to an Australian Professional league. While I see some truth in this I wish to challenge, the national team’s belief. Prior to the 2005 qualification match and the 2006 WC, the Socceroo’s were poorly supported with crowds for most games very low, and aside from the Iran game in 97 & 2001 WCQ, most games failed to deliver any great TV ratings. The Matilda’s prior to the 2023 WC, mostly underappreciated, hardly watched or attended. What changed for both the 2005/2006 Socceroos and the 2023 Matilda’s was prior to those matches they were held out to be high quality sides filled with world class players, months before those matches were played. Australian professional Football, has always been seen in a negative light, coaches not up an acceptable standard, players are poor quality. This was the case for both the NSL and especially the A-League when Craig Foster made it a personal mission to highlight how poor our standards were and what was needed to fix the poor standards in Australian professional Football. For years that followed, games were hardly discussed, everything was about the poor quality of everything from the administration, the coaches, the players, the systems, Football structures. My guess is the net hits were for the how to fix and whats wrong articles. Those into Europe and Champions league will tell you it hurts them to watch the A-L as its so poor and that’s also the message they spread. So Mon we need to command the respect of both the player base and Football fans, and P & R is a part, but before we can introduce P & R need to accept we have quality and our Football is of a high standard. A classic example, and not trying to defend Arnold, but using him as an example, mostly torn to shreds as being of poor quality, lacking in technical ability, yet chosen by at the last world cup as the best coach [the first time ever for an Australian coach]. OK OK OK OK the judges did not see the lead up games; however, I would counter you can’t go from a donkey to the goat in a couple of weeks either and therein lies an issue we cannot see or refuse to accept we do have quality. Until as a nation we admit we have quality, crowds, rating, P & R... all those things will suffer. Mon, hope this answers the question you asked. Prime example is the Alegaue, sure some of the football on display is pretty dire but having watched a little of it last season it is NOT terrible... When talking about on pitch performances in general in Australia, I'd say we are punching above what our squad values would suggest. Not just talking about the AL, but the same goes for NPL as well. We spend next to nothing on squads. $2.6M for an entire professional squad is peanuts in the global football economy. Our expectations should be well below what we actually get. I reckon we are pretty much on par with anywhere else in the world with similar budgets.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
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+x+x+xWe should send riciti emails politely arguing for a 2025 launch... t would be 1000 times more effective if you bought an APIA membership and THEN voiced your opinion... Money talks, bullshit walks mate. I tried to buy some shares in their NST venture They then told me that ASIC wouldn't let them (red tape rules to follow first) so they had to refund me and wait 12 months lol, that explains the "lets push the launch out to 2026" take then I suppose :)
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numklpkgulftumch
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.9K,
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+x+xWe should send riciti emails politely arguing for a 2025 launch... t would be 1000 times more effective if you bought an APIA membership and THEN voiced your opinion... Money talks, bullshit walks mate. I tried to buy some shares in their NST venture They then told me that ASIC wouldn't let them (red tape rules to follow first) so they had to refund me and wait 12 months
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
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+xWe should send riciti emails politely arguing for a 2025 launch... t would be 1000 times more effective if you bought an APIA membership and THEN voiced your opinion... Money talks, bullshit walks mate.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xAustralia's problem is its at the arse end of the world and football as a professional sport is only really thriving in Europe and to a lesser extent South America, with perhaps Japan being the only outlier. (of course football is a world game, but note I said 'thriving professional sport'.) So Australia (and its clubs) being where it is, is never going to be involved in a regular competition that anyone ever cares about. Asia is third rate, the only league that is doing okay in the whole region is Japan and this has become a destination for 3rd rate players who aren't quite good enough to make it in Europe. Even a nation like Korea which has a much larger population and higher standard of football than Australia does, have no local interest in their domestic league. There's zero incentive for a quality footballer to remain in Australia beyond their teenage years and the general public and media know this. Even the smaller tin pot nations in Europe with less registered players than Australia are going to have better leagues because they can compete in UEFA competitions which ensures funding, TV interest and other incentives. These continental competitions raise the standard of those clubs competing in them further. None of this will ever happen for Australia, the culture in Asia simply doesn't exist in a football sense. Valid points.... Asia is improving but it is still a long way off.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xthe very sad thing is Football in Australia cannot generate enough revenue or support to operate the way many want it to operate. IMO the even sadder thing thing is so many people believe the answer is both simple and easy to do.... there is no simple solution never has been.... the belief that their is this magical solution out there IMO stops other thoughts and ideas. I'd try a simple solution first Full Pyramid Every Decision at Every Club can be then based on a solid Structure where Every Club can find their own level thanks you are obviously right... its so simple... no other issues... nothing else matters ... nothing else will work... again thanks for stating the obvious solution that solves all problems... Mid, it solves the MAIN problem though... T According to those that believe it will. My issue and remember I want P & R....IMO P & R is part of the problem but not the main issue.... OK, fair enough. Would you let me know what you think the MAIN ISSUE is then? What is the #1 limitation on growing and improving the more than 1000 clubs and a million participants of football in this country? OK.... The wording of your question, is forward loaded which focuses an answer towards P & R.... Further it pre supposes every club in the country is affected. Given I support the introduction of P & R, it kinda weird people are arguing with me. My stance has not changed over many years, our biggest issue in my very very very humble opinion is a total lack of respect for Australian Football, and until that occurs we will never create a support base capable of supporting what people want Football to achieve, including P & R. The common belief by many pertaining to Football in Australia is that we have support at National level, support at grass roots park level but poor at connecting the grass roots to an Australian Professional league. While I see some truth in this I wish to challenge, the national team’s belief. Prior to the 2005 qualification match and the 2006 WC, the Socceroo’s were poorly supported with crowds for most games very low, and aside from the Iran game in 97 & 2001 WCQ, most games failed to deliver any great TV ratings. The Matilda’s prior to the 2023 WC, mostly underappreciated, hardly watched or attended. What changed for both the 2005/2006 Socceroos and the 2023 Matilda’s was prior to those matches they were held out to be high quality sides filled with world class players, months before those matches were played. Australian professional Football, has always been seen in a negative light, coaches not up an acceptable standard, players are poor quality. This was the case for both the NSL and especially the A-League when Craig Foster made it a personal mission to highlight how poor our standards were and what was needed to fix the poor standards in Australian professional Football. For years that followed, games were hardly discussed, everything was about the poor quality of everything from the administration, the coaches, the players, the systems, Football structures. My guess is the net hits were for the how to fix and whats wrong articles. Those into Europe and Champions league will tell you it hurts them to watch the A-L as its so poor and that’s also the message they spread. So Mon we need to command the respect of both the player base and Football fans, and P & R is a part, but before we can introduce P & R need to accept we have quality and our Football is of a high standard. A classic example, and not trying to defend Arnold, but using him as an example, mostly torn to shreds as being of poor quality, lacking in technical ability, yet chosen by at the last world cup as the best coach [the first time ever for an Australian coach]. OK OK OK OK the judges did not see the lead up games; however, I would counter you can’t go from a donkey to the goat in a couple of weeks either and therein lies an issue we cannot see or refuse to accept we do have quality. Until as a nation we admit we have quality, crowds, rating, P & R... all those things will suffer. Mon, hope this answers the question you asked. Mid every club in the country IS effected by not having the ability to be promoted to the top league (baring the 11 franchises of course). As to the crux of your argument, respect for Australian football??? Umm we have 1000+ clubs in this country, that is a hell of a lot of respect right there mate.. otherwise why would all these volunteers even bother waking up on a Sunday to man the canteen or mark the lines? Whats on the pitch doesnt bring respect or crowds... its what is outside it that does... Countries all over the world have a far lower playing standard than we do yet manage to attract crowds to their games and garner undying loyalty to individual clubs that we cannot seem to figure out... Prime example is the Alegaue, sure some of the football on display is pretty dire but having watched a little of it last season it is NOT terrible... I have told you how I admire CCMs play for instance.. You would agree (I hope) that I'm a football tragic but will NEVER attend an Aleague match even if Messi and Ronaldo were lining up against each other at AAMI park next weekend for Victory and WU respectively.... I believe that the successful integration of football into our "culture", just like in EVERY OTHER COUNTRY in the world is through building club identity and loyalty... THATS what needs to be fixed first in my opinion.. The actual football isnt that bad.
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Lupi33
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Australia's problem is its at the arse end of the world and football as a professional sport is only really thriving in Europe and to a lesser extent South America, with perhaps Japan being the only outlier. (of course football is a world game, but note I said 'thriving professional sport'.)
So Australia (and its clubs) being where it is, is never going to be involved in a regular competition that anyone ever cares about. Asia is third rate, the only league that is doing okay in the whole region is Japan and this has become a destination for 3rd rate players who aren't quite good enough to make it in Europe. Even a nation like Korea which has a much larger population and higher standard of football than Australia does, have no local interest in their domestic league.
There's zero incentive for a quality footballer to remain in Australia beyond their teenage years and the general public and media know this. Even the smaller tin pot nations in Europe with less registered players than Australia are going to have better leagues because they can compete in UEFA competitions which ensures funding, TV interest and other incentives. These continental competitions raise the standard of those clubs competing in them further. None of this will ever happen for Australia, the culture in Asia simply doesn't exist in a football sense.
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