Readers agree: junior league needs urgent overhaul


Readers agree: junior league needs urgent overhaul

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Judy Free
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Heartinator wrote:
What I'm trying to say is - kids drop out of playing for their local team because they lose interest in playing for a team (and everything that comes with it, training, costs, time) NOT because they lose interest in the sport.


Unfortunately you don't say it very well.

How would you determine someone's supposed "interest" in the game if they don't;

play
coach
administer
manage
or pay to watch live football

What do these people bring to the table of Australian soccer, and how is their supposed latent interest going to make a difference?

Edited by judy free: 7/4/2011 08:37:52 PM
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Kids lose interest in sport... it happens all the time, I've seen it. They develop different interests as they get older. They are exposed to the possiblity of so many different activities and hobbies.

Maybe if they didn't start playing as young as 5 or 6, they wouldn't get sick of it all and drift away at 14 or 15!
Heartinator
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Judy Free wrote:
Heartinator wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
Arthur wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
Arthur wrote:
❏ Parents commented that most kids just wanted to have fun and enjoy the game without ever wanting to go on and play competitively at a senior level. They believe rugby league needs to accommodate a development pathway for the better kids, but at the same time ensure all kids are given a brand of football that satisfies their desire for a rugby league experience.

This point is so poignant and easily transfers to Football too.


And your point would be?

Does soccer not already accomodate those kids not interested in playing at an elite level?



In Victoria I beleive that this is the case reflected in the [size=6]large drop out rates [/size]at 12yo 14 yo and 17yo. Which I have personally witnessed.

Cheers


At age 12+ it's not about what "parents believe" to be the right weekend past time for their kids. At that age they start the process of making their own decisions.

Soccer has always endured significant drop out rates from about the age of 12 or 13. You see, soccer being the eternal poor cousin of the football codes will always struggle to keep kids in the game in this country. If you haven't noticed, AFL and NRL dominates all markets, by some margin. Kids flock to things that are popular.

In other words, it has nothing to do with any supposed creation of a fun and giggles competition for those not interested elite level. The fun and giggles comps are there - it's just that they are not interested.

Edited by judy free: 7/4/2011 08:06:11 AM


So are you saying that kids lose interest in football all together at that age, or that they simply lose interest in playing it?

Because if you are saying they lose interest in the game, then you really need to spend more time looking at parks, playground, schools etc and less time in front of a computer screen - because that is far from the truth.


You doubting arfur's comment regarding drop out rates?

As for defining soccer "interest". Put it this way, local interest is momentarily restored once every 4 years, or, if say, David Beckham is in town. Other than that it's permanently parked on the back burner of the Australian sporting landscape. Accept it - don't fight it.

Take NSW, for example. Where 50%+ of Australia's total amateur registrations happen to be. And look at their premier city team, SFC. Now, tell me where all this underlying interest is in local soccer? 7,000 last night?

:lol:


Regarding drop out rates - there is a difference between someone deciding that they don't want to play for a team anymore and someone who decides they don't like the sport anymore.

What I'm trying to say is - kids drop out of playing for their local team because they lose interest in playing for a team (and everything that comes with it, training, costs, time) NOT because they lose interest in the sport.

By your rationale - from ages 13 and up, every other "mainstream" sport would have participation skyrocket because all our kids decide they hate football??? Idiot.
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http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=government+obesity+campaigns&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=government+obe

Why Governments are putting a lot of money into this issue.

Edited by Arthur: 7/4/2011 12:00:10 PM
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crowd and player participation rates are dropping because so many kids prefer to play,PS1,wee and all that shit.......how many kids go and play outside anymore???????thats why there all fat lttle turds
Judy Free
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Heartinator wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
Arthur wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
Arthur wrote:
❏ Parents commented that most kids just wanted to have fun and enjoy the game without ever wanting to go on and play competitively at a senior level. They believe rugby league needs to accommodate a development pathway for the better kids, but at the same time ensure all kids are given a brand of football that satisfies their desire for a rugby league experience.

This point is so poignant and easily transfers to Football too.


And your point would be?

Does soccer not already accomodate those kids not interested in playing at an elite level?



In Victoria I beleive that this is the case reflected in the [size=6]large drop out rates [/size]at 12yo 14 yo and 17yo. Which I have personally witnessed.

Cheers


At age 12+ it's not about what "parents believe" to be the right weekend past time for their kids. At that age they start the process of making their own decisions.

Soccer has always endured significant drop out rates from about the age of 12 or 13. You see, soccer being the eternal poor cousin of the football codes will always struggle to keep kids in the game in this country. If you haven't noticed, AFL and NRL dominates all markets, by some margin. Kids flock to things that are popular.

In other words, it has nothing to do with any supposed creation of a fun and giggles competition for those not interested elite level. The fun and giggles comps are there - it's just that they are not interested.

Edited by judy free: 7/4/2011 08:06:11 AM


So are you saying that kids lose interest in football all together at that age, or that they simply lose interest in playing it?

Because if you are saying they lose interest in the game, then you really need to spend more time looking at parks, playground, schools etc and less time in front of a computer screen - because that is far from the truth.


You doubting arfur's comment regarding drop out rates?

As for defining soccer "interest". Put it this way, local interest is momentarily restored once every 4 years, or, if say, David Beckham is in town. Other than that it's permanently parked on the back burner of the Australian sporting landscape. Accept it - don't fight it.

Take NSW, for example. Where 50%+ of Australia's total amateur registrations happen to be. And look at their premier city team, SFC. Now, tell me where all this underlying interest is in local soccer? 7,000 last night?

:lol:
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Judy Free wrote:
Arthur wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
Arthur wrote:
❏ Parents commented that most kids just wanted to have fun and enjoy the game without ever wanting to go on and play competitively at a senior level. They believe rugby league needs to accommodate a development pathway for the better kids, but at the same time ensure all kids are given a brand of football that satisfies their desire for a rugby league experience.

This point is so poignant and easily transfers to Football too.


And your point would be?

Does soccer not already accomodate those kids not interested in playing at an elite level?



In Victoria I beleive that this is the case reflected in the large drop out rates at 12yo 14 yo and 17yo. Which I have personally witnessed.

Cheers


At age 12+ it's not about what "parents believe" to be the right weekend past time for their kids. At that age they start the process of making their own decisions.

Soccer has always endured significant drop out rates from about the age of 12 or 13. You see, soccer being the eternal poor cousin of the football codes will always struggle to keep kids in the game in this country. If you haven't noticed, AFL and NRL dominates all markets, by some margin. Kids flock to things that are popular.

In other words, it has nothing to do with any supposed creation of a fun and giggles competition for those not interested elite level. The fun and giggles comps are there - it's just that they are not interested.

Edited by judy free: 7/4/2011 08:06:11 AM


So are you saying that kids lose interest in football all together at that age, or that they simply lose interest in playing it?

Because if you are saying they lose interest in the game, then you really need to spend more time looking at parks, playground, schools etc and less time in front of a computer screen - because that is far from the truth.
Arthur
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Judy Free wrote:

I get the picture.

You prefer the back-slapping for your efforts as opposed to informed feedback.

I'll leave you with it.


Still waiting for the informed feedback.
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Arthur wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
Arthur wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
Arthur wrote:
❏ Parents commented that most kids just wanted to have fun and enjoy the game without ever wanting to go on and play competitively at a senior level. They believe rugby league needs to accommodate a development pathway for the better kids, but at the same time ensure all kids are given a brand of football that satisfies their desire for a rugby league experience.

This point is so poignant and easily transfers to Football too.


And your point would be?

Does soccer not already accomodate those kids not interested in playing at an elite level?



In Victoria I beleive that this is the case reflected in the large drop out rates at 12yo 14 yo and 17yo. Which I have personally witnessed.

Cheers


At age 12+ it's not about what "parents believe" to be the right weekend past time for their kids. At that age they start the process of making their own decisions.

Soccer has always endured significant drop out rates from about the age of 12 or 13. You see, soccer being the eternal poor cousin of the football codes will always struggle to keep kids in the game in this country. If you haven't noticed, AFL and NRL dominates all markets, by some margin. Kids flock to things that are popular.

In other words, it has nothing to do with any supposed creation of a fun and giggles competition for those not interested elite level. The fun and giggles comps are there - it's just that they are not interested.

Edited by judy free: 7/4/2011 08:06:11 AM


Beleive what you like.


I get the picture.

You prefer the back-slapping for your efforts as opposed to informed feedback.

I'll leave you with it.
Arthur
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Judy Free wrote:
Arthur wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
Arthur wrote:
❏ Parents commented that most kids just wanted to have fun and enjoy the game without ever wanting to go on and play competitively at a senior level. They believe rugby league needs to accommodate a development pathway for the better kids, but at the same time ensure all kids are given a brand of football that satisfies their desire for a rugby league experience.

This point is so poignant and easily transfers to Football too.


And your point would be?

Does soccer not already accomodate those kids not interested in playing at an elite level?



In Victoria I beleive that this is the case reflected in the large drop out rates at 12yo 14 yo and 17yo. Which I have personally witnessed.

Cheers


At age 12+ it's not about what "parents believe" to be the right weekend past time for their kids. At that age they start the process of making their own decisions.

Soccer has always endured significant drop out rates from about the age of 12 or 13. You see, soccer being the eternal poor cousin of the football codes will always struggle to keep kids in the game in this country. If you haven't noticed, AFL and NRL dominates all markets, by some margin. Kids flock to things that are popular.

In other words, it has nothing to do with any supposed creation of a fun and giggles competition for those not interested elite level. The fun and giggles comps are there - it's just that they are not interested.

Edited by judy free: 7/4/2011 08:06:11 AM


Beleive what you like.
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Arthur wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
Arthur wrote:
❏ Parents commented that most kids just wanted to have fun and enjoy the game without ever wanting to go on and play competitively at a senior level. They believe rugby league needs to accommodate a development pathway for the better kids, but at the same time ensure all kids are given a brand of football that satisfies their desire for a rugby league experience.

This point is so poignant and easily transfers to Football too.


And your point would be?

Does soccer not already accomodate those kids not interested in playing at an elite level?



In Victoria I beleive that this is the case reflected in the large drop out rates at 12yo 14 yo and 17yo. Which I have personally witnessed.

Cheers


At age 12+ it's not about what "parents believe" to be the right weekend past time for their kids. At that age they start the process of making their own decisions.

Soccer has always endured significant drop out rates from about the age of 12 or 13. You see, soccer being the eternal poor cousin of the football codes will always struggle to keep kids in the game in this country. If you haven't noticed, AFL and NRL dominates all markets, by some margin. Kids flock to things that are popular.

In other words, it has nothing to do with any supposed creation of a fun and giggles competition for those not interested elite level. The fun and giggles comps are there - it's just that they are not interested.

Edited by judy free: 7/4/2011 08:06:11 AM
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Judy Free wrote:
Arthur wrote:
❏ Parents commented that most kids just wanted to have fun and enjoy the game without ever wanting to go on and play competitively at a senior level. They believe rugby league needs to accommodate a development pathway for the better kids, but at the same time ensure all kids are given a brand of football that satisfies their desire for a rugby league experience.

This point is so poignant and easily transfers to Football too.


And your point would be?

Does soccer not already accomodate those kids not interested in playing at an elite level?



In Victoria I beleive that this is the case reflected in the large drop out rates at 12yo 14 yo and 17yo. Which I have personally witnessed.

Cheers

Judy Free
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Arthur wrote:
❏ Parents commented that most kids just wanted to have fun and enjoy the game without ever wanting to go on and play competitively at a senior level. They believe rugby league needs to accommodate a development pathway for the better kids, but at the same time ensure all kids are given a brand of football that satisfies their desire for a rugby league experience.

This point is so poignant and easily transfers to Football too.


And your point would be?

Does soccer not already accomodate those kids not interested in playing at an elite level?


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i originally like the interchange in ssf, however it creates players that cant concentrate for a whole half and this gets reflected in thier inability to concentrate in training.
Football allows for any level of junior player, they get binned later on as clubs dont allow enough 'pub football' level at adult as they are only interested in the higher levels.

Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club

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Quote:
With all the studies and time spent talking about what the kids need, maybe we ought to ask them what they want. Because plenty of kids at various ages are giving our game away, but very few quit the ''backyard game''.

How bloody true is that line. That is what kids want to do, have a great time with mates playing a game. Winning and losing doesn't mean anything, but having a great time and experimenting within the game environment is what it is all about. That article may be about league but it applies equally to all team sports in a junior environment.

The thing about football - the important thing about football - is its not just about football.
- Sir Terry Pratchett in Unseen Academicals
For pro/rel in Australia across the entire pyramid, the removal of artificial impediments to the development of the game and its players.
On sabbatical Youth Coach and formerly part of The Cove FC

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I have just read this article by Phil Gould of NRL fame I found it interesting and though it had some relevant issues for Football too.

I am presenting an edited version click on the heading for the full article.

Quote:
Readers agree: junior league needs urgent overhaulPhil Gould
April 3, 2011 - 9:42AM

The response to my column published a fortnight ago, headlined "Crunch time for juniors' weighty issue", was overwhelming.

The quality of emails I received was outstanding. People put a lot of time and effort into their submissions and I don't have the space today to do them all justice. Many of these emails have been posted on our website; I will forward all of them to the ARL Development unit and send a copy to the new NRL commissioners when they are elected in the coming weeks.

So what did I learn? It goes something like this …

❏ This is a big issue with parents and kids. Rugby league administration and development groups have carried out extensive research and introduced some measures to address this problem, however, it is obvious we have reached the point where significant changes need to be made to our junior league programs.

❏ Parents commented that most kids just wanted to have fun and enjoy the game without ever wanting to go on and play competitively at a senior level. They believe rugby league needs to accommodate a development pathway for the better kids, but at the same time ensure all kids are given a brand of football that satisfies their desire for a rugby league experience.

This point is so poignant and easily transfers to Football too.

❏ Many kids are turned away from our game by the difference in power and size between themselves and the bigger kids in their age groups.

In football the more technically and motor skilled advanced kids can be added or the ones who want the most from the game versus those seeking a fun footballing experience.

❏ We see a drop-out about the age of 12 and then a huge decline in numbers when kids reach 14 years. It is at this age, too, when talent scouting and development processes start to isolate the potential representative and future grade players from those who just play for fun because they love the game. Who caters for the social players and the late developers?

❏ We see a huge drop-out at 17 although at this age kids are leaving school to enter the workforce and tertiary studies, so they don't have the time to play football, or the only levels of senior football available to them are well beyond their ability range.

❏ Many spoke out strongly against interchange rules at senior and junior levels. They believed the interchange assisted the bigger players and made life difficult for the development of smaller players.
Is this relevant to Football?

❏ Others expressed concern at the coaching of junior teams, claiming some junior coaches were all about winning and attracting the biggest and best players. They claimed negative coaching as a factor and said some coaches pushed kids too hard.

❏ Many agreed the current situation had led to a lack of time given to the development of the smaller, skilful players, and too many players were turned away before they had an adequate chance to fully develop physically and mentally.

❏ They do NOT want to make the game a test of courage: this way the kids have a quality experience to ensure they love the game and, even if they do not continue to play, that they remain fans of the game.
The last line is the important one that kids remain fans of the game.

Change is not easy to introduce

❏ Many junior league people are volunteers and fear drastic changes will put too much strain and responsibility on their involvement.

❏ Kids just want to play footy. However, all they know is the system we have.

❏ I was contacted by administrators in the various development academies to inform me of the strategies they have implemented to give all kids a better experience. There are a lot of people doing great work in this field, however, there is a real lack of awareness of what they offer and unless their efforts are being duplicated in all rugby league nurseries around the country, the impact of their work will be minimal. This is very frustrating.

❏ The major problem is funding. From the ARL Development body to the various academies, schools programs and coaching clinics, these processes are hugely underfunded. This gets back to the need for one governing body in our game. The NRL and the proliferation of leagues such as the ARL, NSWRL, QRL and CRL has led to a huge waste of money. Several of these leagues have managed to squirrel away millions of dollars in the bank yet the ARL Development processes have been restricted by lack of funding. This has to change.

❏ ARL Development is sitting on some great ideas including: a ''Backyard Footy'' promotion for schools; specialists camps for playmakers and other positions; ''Little League'', a modified brand of football for kids six-nine played on smaller fields and in smaller numbers; and coaching clinics and seminars for junior coaches. However, funding and awareness restrict their development.

❏ I wrote years ago that the NRL should have bought, or at least invested heavily in, all touch football and OzTag franchises so these extremely popular forms of the game carried our logo and became associated with the professional code people follow. I believe that adaptations and different forms of these games provide the solutions to many of our junior league issues. There is no need for kids under 12 to ever have to tackle anything other than a tackle bag or a bump pad in training. We can give them other forms of collision and wrestle activity in controlled environments that will satisfy their curiosity and competitiveness. Just my opinion.

❏ I have my own thoughts on providing Saturday morning rugby league clinics for kids of all ages in which they learn all the skills of the game in a controlled environment without the pressure of heavy collision, match results or screaming advisers. Indeed, I just might run a pilot program this off-season to determine whether we can formulate a concept that all junior clubs, parents and kids might embrace. It's worth a shot.

Thanks again, everyone. At the least we have brought much-needed awareness to this issue and given those desiring change the inspiration to continue their good work.

My awakening

I was watching an under-10s game a few weeks ago. While the official game was being played, behind me another game was starting, probably the game many of us remember as kids. In this ''unofficial game'', a number of kids of all ages, shapes and sizes came together for an impromptu game of footy. The kid with the long blond hair and the football in his hands held court.

"Do youse wanna play tip or tackle?" Most yelled out, "Tackle!", but immediately a couple said, "I don't wanna tackle". Another said: "I'm not tackling Yousef, he's too big."

"OK," said the blond-haired kid, "Yousef, you can't run, you have to walk; and Jayson, Tom and Jack are playing touch footy; and the rest of us are playing tackle."

"Hooray," said the group. Yousef argued: "I wanna run too; that's not fair." The blond kid conceded. "OK. But we only have to touch you with two hands and you are not allowed to palm us off. OK?" Yousef nodded his agreement; happy he got something from the negotiation.

"OK," said the blond kid, ''we'll make that tree the sideline, the bins are the sideline on that side; you score past that bin over there and our try line is past that guy's chair. No play-the-balls, touch the ground and pass, three tackles and you have to kick.'' Rock-paper-scissors decided who kicked off and the game was under way.

For the next 15 minutes I observed the two games being played. Out on the real field the players ran through the choreographed processes of the mod league rules. The referee barked instructions and kept them to the rule book. Parents and coaches screamed from the sidelines, and the players fought over who got next run and next kick. A couple of the better players were dominating the play, and as soon as the big No.10 for the team in green received the ball, everyone got out of his way and he scored another try. Some of the kids were enjoying themselves. A few of the others hardly got a touch.

In the other game, there was no referee, no coaches, no parents yelling from the sidelines, no field markings, a lot of talking, laughing. They even had one kid commentating the play as it happened in that distinctive Ray Warren impersonation. There was the odd spat over what was a knock-on or whether someone had been touched or not; but they sorted it out. The game kept moving, no penalties, some playing hard, others playing soft, everyone getting a fair go with the ball. The kids were experimenting with the chip kicks, long passes and flick passes they saw on TV. No one cared who scored and the result meant nothing. They were just playing footy. I saw beetroot-red faces from all the running and all the laughing. Big Yousef had just about stopped to a walk anyway; he was tired.

I looked back at the main game. I saw a lot of kids looking a little stressed with their experience as they tried to please those yelling from the sidelines. I looked back at the game over on the side and everyone was having a great time. I thought: "We are missing something here."

With all the studies and time spent talking about what the kids need, maybe we ought to ask them what they want. Because plenty of kids at various ages are giving our game away, but very few quit the ''backyard game''.


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