Sigh... back on topic.

The big question is whether Trump ends up with a plurality, or a majority of delegates. The upcoming primaries are largely winner-take-all. So we will have a better idea once the 15th March primaries are done.

Florida is the one to watch - 99 delegates, winner take all, Rubio home state, Trump currently ahead in the polls there. If Rubio fails here I think Trump likely to have an absolute majority of delegates.

lots of callers for Chris Christie to Step down as Gov NJ

Probably needs to step down for this alone

Probably needs to step down for this alone

[size=8]Neocons declare war on Trump[/size]
Prominent Republican hawks are debating whether to hold their noses and [size=7]vote for Clinton instead[/size].
By MICHAEL CROWLEY 03/02/16 05:55 PM EST Updated 03/02/16 06:31 PM EST

Donald Trump calls the Iraq War a lie-fueled fiasco, admires Vladimir Putin and says he would be a "neutral" arbiter between Israel and the Palestinians. When it comes to America’s global role he asks, “Why are we always at the forefront of everything?"

Even more than his economic positions, Trump's foreign policy views challenge GOP orthodoxy in fundamental ways. But while parts of the party establishment are resigning themselves or even backing Trump's runaway train, one group is bitterly digging in against him: the hawkish foreign policy elites known as neoconservatives.

[size=8]In interviews with POLITICO, leading neocons — people who promoted the Iraq war, detest Putin and consider Israel's security non-negotiable — said Trump would be a disaster for U.S. foreign policy and vowed never to support him. So deep is their revulsion that several even say they could vote for Hillary Clinton over Trump in November.[/size]

[size=8]“Hillary is the lesser evil, by a large margin,” said Eliot Cohen, a founder of the Project for a New American Century, a neocon think tank which promoted a muscular U.S. role in the world.[/size] Trump's election would be “an unmitigated disaster for American foreign policy," Cohen said, adding that "he has already damaged it considerably.”

Cohen said he would "strongly prefer a third party candidate" to Trump, but added: "Probably if absolutely no alternative: Hillary."

In a March 1 interview with Vox, Max Boot, a military historian at the Council on Foreign Relations who backed the Iraq War and often advocates a hawkish foreign policy, said that he, too, would vote for Clinton over Trump. "I'm literally losing sleep over Donald Trump," he said. "She would be vastly preferable to Trump."

A group of Republican foreign policy experts plan to publish a blistering letter attacking Trump on Thursday, according to the Financial Times. They include Cohen; Peter Feaver, a former senior national security aide in George W. Bush's White House; Robert Zoellick, a former deputy to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice; and Dov Zakheim, a former Bush Pentagon official.

Several other neocons said they find themselves in an impossible position, constitutionally incapable of voting for Clinton but repelled by a Republican whose foreign policy views they consider somewhere between nonexistent and dangerous — and disconnected from their views about American power and values abroad.

"1972 was the first time I was old enough to vote for president, and I did not vote. Couldn't vote for McGovern for foreign policy reasons, nor for Nixon because of Watergate," said Elliott Abrams, a former national security council aide to George W. Bush who specializes in democracy and the Middle East. "I may be in the same boat in 2016, unable to vote for Trump or Clinton."

Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol, something of a dean of Washington neoconservatives, said he would seek out a third option before choosing between Trump and Clinton.

“If it's Trump-Clinton, I'd work with others to recruit a strong conservative third party candidate, and do my best to help him win (which by the way would be more possible than people think, especially when people — finally — realize Trump shouldn't be president and Hillary is indicted),” Kristol wrote in an email.

Kristol and Abrams have advised Florida senator Marco Rubio, the preferred choice of several neoconservatives, who admire his call for "moral clarity" in foreign policy and strong emphasis on human rights and democracy.

[size=8]Alarm brewing for months in GOP foreign policy circles burst into public view last week, when Robert Kagan, a key backer of the Iraq War and American global might, wrote in the Washington Post that a Trump nomination would force him to cross party lines.

“The only choice will be to vote for Hillary Clinton,” Kagan warned. “The party cannot be saved, but the country still can be.”[/size]

In an interview, Kagan said his opposition to Trump "has nothing to do with foreign policy."

"What it has to do with is the health and safety of American democracy," he added. "I don't even know what Donald Trump's foreign policy is. I don't think anybody does."

Though Trump's foreign policy views don't fit any familiar category, he has outlined several clear positions at odds with neoconservative doctrine.

While neoconservatives believe America plays a unique role in defending global order and Western values, Trump has long complained about America's military presence abroad and the protection the U.S. provides to prosperous allies like Saudi Arabia, Japan and South Korea.

Neocons depict Russian President Vladimir Putin as a sinister tyrant challenging America; Trump calls Putin a strong leader with whom he'd "get along very well" and proposes a more cooperative relationship with Moscow.

Neocons believe the U.S. must forcefully defend Israel. But while Trump insists his presidency would be "the best thing that could ever happen to Israel," he has alarmed pro-Israel Republicans with his pledge to be a "neutral" arbiter in talks between Israel and the Palestinians.

Trump has shown little interest in the neoconservative cause of an interventionist foreign policy guided by principles like democracy and human rights. And he says the neocon project of invading Iraq may have been "the worst decision" in presidential history.

Some conservative foreign policy insiders opposed to Trump stop short of saying they would vote for Clinton, despite elements of her foreign policy record, such as her 2002 Senate vote to authorize force against Iraq, that they find appealing.

“I could never vote for Clinton under any circumstances,” said Abrams.

“I would ask Bob [Kagan] what job he thinks Sidney Blumenthal will have at the NSC before pulling the lever for Clinton,” he added — a reference to the longtime Clinton adviser and bete noir of the right.

Danielle Pletka, a defense expert at the American Enterprise Institute said she, too, would seek some alternative to Trump and Clinton.

"[W]hile I will never vote for a Democrat in wolf’s clothing like Trump, I will also never vote for a candidate as dishonest, as rapacious, as Hillary Clinton," she wrote in an email. "My vote is a precious thing, and while I will certainly go to the polls, if those are my choices, I will write someone in. And no, it won’t be Bloomberg."

The word "neoconservative" is subject to interpretation, and some conservatives consider it pejorative. Originally used to describe Democrats who adopted hard line anti-Communist views during the Cold War, the word's colloquial meaning roughly amounts to “hawkish GOP foreign policy intellectual.”

Neocons have shown little enthusiasm for Texas Senator Ted Cruz, who has singled them out for scorn. Speaking to Iowa voters in December, Cruz bashed what he called the "crazy neocon invade-every-country-on-earth and send our kids to die in the Middle East” element of his party.

Cruz has also attacked Rubio in debates for supporting military action to topple Middle Eastern dictators in Libya and Syria, and has said the world was better off with former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein in power.

But the neocons reserve special scorn for Trump.

"A Trump presidency would represent the death knell of America as a great power," Boot writes in the March 7 issue of the Weekly Standard, along with Council on Foreign Relations economist Ben Steill.

Steill and Boot — who also has advised Rubio — call Trump "singularly ill-equipped to manage the resulting turmoil" from his policies. They recall the September radio interview in which Trump confused the Kurds with Iran's elite military Quds force and admitted he was unfamiliar with the leaders of major Islamist terror groups.

Cohen also added that he doesn't oppose Trump solely on foreign policy grounds, calling the Manhattan mogul “the most dangerous demagogue in American politics in my lifetime.”

Several other prominent neoconservatives, including former Bush Pentagon official Paul Wolfowitz and Liz Cheney, daughter of former vice president Dick Cheney, did not respond to requests for comment.

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/trump-clinton-neoconservatives-220151#ixzz41nU0ftRI

The media has done so well on this, convincing the plebs that a Trump presidency will be the end of the world.

I can't wait til either Trump gets voted in and shuts everyone up, or Clinton gets voted in and starts World War 3. Your call, America.

The media has done so well on this, convincing the plebs that a Trump presidency will be the end of the world.

I can't wait til either Trump gets voted in and shuts everyone up, or Clinton gets voted in and starts World War 3. Your call, America.

I dont think Trump is the messiah nor that he's squeaky clean, not that he can deliver everything he claims he can, but he's still a hell of a lot better than the alternatives being offered up right now and probably is what America and the world needs right now to overthrow the 'order' (which has caused so much chaos).

I'm not sure he can do it though, he faces enormous odds with neocons, democrats and the media all against him.

Edited by TheFactOfTheMatter: 3/3/2016 03:15:51 PM

Please dont lump me in with JPs kind :-& :-& :-&

Is Hillary the favourite now? I know next to nothing about american politics.

Only thing i know is that apparently Trump is the devil himself and Bernie Sanders is america's salvation.

Reasons to vote for DONALD J. TRUMP & you decide.

1. Donald J. Trump is the only candidate who can turn things around for America and should be taken seriously!!! He loves America and Americans of ALL races.

2. He is immune to special interest lobbying because he has accepted no donations or special interest money. No other candidate can make this claim.

3. He is an executive. The President of the United States is the Chief Executive Officer of our nation. We don’t need a policy expert or a legislator – we need someone who knows how to run an organization. Mr. Trump is the only candidate who has a proven record as a successful executive on a large scale.

4. He is honest. Mr. Trump is a man who tells the truth. He may not always say it in the most polished way, but our country has had enough suave liars. It is time for some straight forward honesty.

5. He is decisive. As President every decision he makes would be in the best interest of the country. We hear about his having business interests that filed for bankruptcy. In each case, he looked at the situation as it was, and then he cut his losses. We need someone who will look at government programs realistically and if they are failures; will end the wasteful Washington spending.

6. He is courageous. Mr. Trump has been viciously attacked by the Washington establishment and the media – and he has not budged one inch. In other words, he is willing to take charge and lead.

7. He listens. At Trump Presidential events, the audience gets to actually speak to him without being screened, and he responds without a teleprompter.

8. His success is unmatched in the business world by all the others -

He attended one of the best business schools/ to make 10 billion dollars.

9. Having an IQ of 157, his knowledge of contracts and negotiating is brilliant/ internationally/ unparalleled. No one builds an international business empire the size of Trump's without being able to win at the negotiating table.

10. He was popular in the Apprentice/ number 1# rated program 10 years running.

11. He wrote 10 best-selling books [ His book the Art of a deal [educational]

12. He owned and operated Miss Universe/ Miss America] beauty pageants.

13. He’s doing business worldwide therefore his experience is desirable/ knows cultures/international taxes/ pricing/ shipping/ unions/ regulations/ contracts/ business/ practices/ suppliers/ safety rules/ types of workers.

14. He’s into construction, media, manufacturing, travel and publishing.

15. He’s a job producer/ just for the records/ most of his CEO’s are women/ yes they make more than the men/ creditability counts.

16. He gives millions to charities.

17. He understands currencies/ money exchanges/ inflation, deflation worldwide wages.

18. His tax program 0-10-15-25 is simple.

19. His universal interstate medical/ insurance program is very realistic/ competition.

20. He has a good five point immigration program.

21. He’s pro military & Vet’s [improve VA hospital/care] Take ISIS oil fields to pay Vets.

22. He wants to seal off the boarder [build that wall] He’s built a 96 story building/ he thinks that’s harder than constructing a wall. He understands that a nation without borders, language and laws is not a nation.

23. He’s anti-Iran deal/ pro-Israel. He says it states we have to protect Iran if Israel attacks [Iran keeps saying they are going to wipe Israel and us off of the map].

24. His pro Christmas stance is anti [political correct].

25. He also realizes that our nation is being trashed worldwide and speaks up about it.

26. He recognizes the China money manipulation policy which is anti-USA.

27. He says that Japan’s tariff on US goods [one way deal making].

28. He wants to put a tariff on Mexican goods/ all traffic/ cut off aid.

29. Remember when Trump said; we protect Saudi Arabia therefore they must pay.

30. We fought and spend billions in Afghanistan to help those people and China is mining their minerals because the Obama administration is incompetent/ can’t win at negotiating/ stupid leaders.

31. He’s warning America of [Poisons vaccines] and the dangers.

32. He wants a high tech military/ a world class military/ hardware/ hacking/ security [too good to fail].

33. He realizes we have a Muslin problem in this nation.

34. He thinks Obama’s birth certificate is a fraud [check out his SS#, no draft card/ old pass port/ E-verification status, school records [remember his dad isn’t American therefore he isn’t qualified for the office he’s in].

35. He will work for a $1 per year salary, give the rest to charity and not accept the pension after presidency if elected.

36. Trump is going to organize the FASTEST government ever seen... No BS red tape.

SUMMARY

Like him or not, agree with him or not, it doesn’t matter. So far Trump is the only candidate who has shown that he “can up-set the apple-cart” and make things happen and he is exactly what America needs at this point in time!

Everybody should do their homework on the candidates.

We must not listen to the “political main stream media”. They are not going to tell you the truth! They have a way of twisting words for their own story and agenda! There is an important choice that each voter has to make. Either you cast your vote for another “puppet candidate” and business as usual in Washington or you support Donald J. Trump

MAKE AMERICA GREAT!!! AGAIN

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/03/us/politics/anti-donald-trump-republicans-call-for-a-third-party-option.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

This would hand Clinton the Presidency but would give Senate and House Republicans the chance to rally around a reasonable candidate, helping to protect their majorities. It would make sense from their point of view.

This seems unconstitutional. A party trying to distance itself from it's democratically elected representative.

This is not to say that there shouldn't be a third party. It's just linking it to Trump seems to be trying to circumnavigate political processes.

He's far too blunt for the delicate and over-sensitive youth of today.

:lol: What? How would that possibly be unconstitutional?

You can't start throwing around the word "unconstitutional" just because you don't like something.

The timing. They're effectively trying to disrupt their established political process because they don't like trump.

You can't start demanding a third option because you don't like Trump.

Did you even read what I posted junior?

I for one would like to seem more diversity in US politics with more than the two options. However, bringing it up now is terribly suspicious.

Edited by bethfc: 3/3/2016 04:14:13 PM

You can't start demanding a third option because you don't like Trump.

Which part of the Constitution does it contradict? The US Constitution doesn't guarantee the sanctity of the primaries process - which is why it only properly emerged in the 1960s and 1970s. It doesn't even guarantee a popular vote for the Presidency, which is why the Electoral College still exists. If you think that Republicans supporting an independent candidate because they don't like Trump would be "unconstitutional" then you simply do not understand the Constitution. .

Yes, you can. That is what democracy is. If Republicans don't like their nominee, they can support someone else.

Can you even run as an independent in the USA currently?



Isn't democracy what the people want which is at this point, Trump by all accounts?

It's like voting for Abbott only to have Turnbull come in and wreck your progress because the party doesn't like him. The country voted for Abbott, not Turnbull. However I guess the argument is that the country voted Liberal irrespective of who their mouth piece is.

1. Yes, independents (and minor parties, such as the Greens and the Libertarians) run all the time. The fact you need to ask that question suggests you are in no position to judge whether something is "unconstitutional."

2. So because a plurality of a tiny sample of Republican voters want Trump (and that's what the primaries are - a tiny, party-specific sample) people voting in the general election shouldn't be allowed the choice of an independent conservative candidate? That sounds pretty undemocratic to me.

3. Please point out which specific section of the US Constitution this would contravene; otherwise you can go ahead and admit that you don't know what you're talking about.

I know you're an arts student so this is your thing but calm down with the high and mighty bullshit lovely.

It's great you have an opinion mate, but if you're going to be patronising in expressing it then you should make sure you have at least a vague understanding of what you're talking about. You clearly don't, so I'm not sure why it's worth my time hearing more of the same whinging about "kids these days" and people who "haven't lived in the real world" when those very people seem to have more of a clue than you do.